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Apple's iOS 4.1 ships for iPhone next week, will add HDR photos - Page 2

post #41 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It might have been a slip of the tongue, but when Jobs was talking about the iOS 4.2 "sneak peak", he said that the iPad would get the HDR photo feature. Which of course makes no sense unless the iPad gets a camera.

New iPad later this year, timed to coincide with 4.2?

That's the way I took it. Seems Steve tipped his hand, purposefully or not.
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post #42 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I wonder how it would really work in real life because you need a tripod to shot the 3 photos --- otherwise they don't line up.

I'm under the impression that the three photos are taken so quickly together as to appear that they are taken simultaneously.
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post #43 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

isn't "camera" an app that needs to be launched? or is all i have to do now is think about it to make it happen?

That feature is coming in iOS 4.3 next year.
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post #44 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:11pm
Epic Citadel was trully epic. It was probably the best looking game I've seen on any mobile gaming device.
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post #45 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post

That is not a solution to the 3G iPhone problems. It's only temporary, like rebooting your computer will seem fast at first.



Look people, the reason I and others have asked this question is because AppleInsider did not include this information in any of their reports here, and some of us aren't able to sit and watch an hour-long press conference in the middle of a work day. So, enough with the bitchy wise-ass comments to those asking. Either STFU or just answer the question without calling people stupid, ignorant or a troll.

"And will 4.1 fix all the problems with 3G iPhones as well? I noticed no mention of that at all. It's hard to get excited about new Apple products when the ones you have are causing so much grief.
"
you have no excuse. you asked a question but immediately you go to grief and whatever. don't be surprised. You can continue to be all holier than everyone and pissed.
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post #46 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Don't hold me to it, but I believe it's all handled as a series of rapid shots in succession, with automatic adjustments to the exposure. So, it might take 3 shots in a small fraction of a second.

As the sensor doesn't physically change, I think they might have the camera take the basic shot and interpret it at the three settings, compare, mix and present.

Dunno. Justa thought.

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

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post #47 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Epic Citadel was trully epic. It was probably the best looking game I've seen on any mobile gaming device.

This wasn't mentioned in the article, but I thought people here might like to know that Epic Citadel is currently free on iTunes.
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post #48 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:38pm
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post #49 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

No need to be snarky. You're the one that made a categorical statement as though you knew the facts, when you clearly didn't.

I did indeed make a mistake and said as much. He took offence and was 'snarky'. I apologized for my having offended him. Seems other are as sensitive. As he said (and you seemed to find acceptable), try to keep up.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #50 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:54pm
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post #51 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

HDR looks good, but aren't there already tons of apps for that?

Game center is nothing I have any interest in.

I guess I will not be updating. Why bother?

Better display, better battery life, two cameras. HD video. Face time...

Were you watching the same keynote?
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post #52 of 112
9/1/10 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

Those of us who took the time to watch the press conference, now don't have the time to explain it to you. Go read a press release dipshit.

Is everyone in personal attack mode today?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #53 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:12pm
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post #54 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I wonder how it would really work in real life because you need a tripod to shot the 3 photos --- otherwise they don't line up.

My hunch is that it probably makes three rapid electronic sweeps of the focal plane sensor. Even shaky hands shouldn't have time to cause registration problems.

Thompson
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post #55 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:39pm
How about giving us a "Mark All Read" option in Mail?
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post #56 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


He revealed that the new feature will take three rapid photos -- one regular, one underexposed and one overexposed. When the pictures are combined, it creates an HDR photo.

Good luck with no tripod. I guess this is a "Bright sunlight ONLY" feature. And even then, the crummy little camera is unlikely to take 3 snaps in a small enough amount of time so the camera doesn't move even a millimeter.

And besides, aren't there lots of HDR apps already?

This seems bizarre to me that Apple would do this.
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post #57 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Remember, it's going to take 3 pictures in a fraction of a second. For the level of quality people tend to accept from cell phones they won't even notice the slight crop which will occur at the edges from misalignment when the images are put together.



"Good Enough"?
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post #58 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

It's also free. Why WOULDN'T you upgrade?


Because it will screw up the phone. And it offers nothing that interests me. I'd have to give up too much in order to get stuff that strikes me as fluff.
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post #59 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Don't hold me to it, but I believe it's all handled as a series of rapid shots in succession, with automatic adjustments to the exposure. So, it might take 3 shots in a small fraction of a second.

Many people have trouble taking even one photo without blur. Especially holding a slippery little phone at arm's length.
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post #60 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I want it! The iPhone 4's camera is already uncommonly good for a phone camera!

Outdoors, yes. Indoors, a lot of shots have weird color problems, particularly with fluorescent lighting. Often, it doesn't try to auto white balance incandescent shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat View Post

Did you NOT watch the presentation? iPod touch get front AND rear camera's....sheesh! Keep up

Some people have to work. I chose to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

My hunch is that it probably makes three rapid electronic sweeps of the focal plane sensor. Even shaky hands shouldn't have time to cause registration problems.

There is still exposure time. Indoors, or at dawn/dusk, you're going to need some way to hold it steady. A shot that would be 1/100 for a single frame, might be comprised of 1/50, 1/100 and 1/200, for combined exposure time of about 1/28 in HDR. Even if they do some sort of trickery where they don't blank the sensor and take a copy of the sensor image at certain points (I'm not sure this is feasible, just conjecture), or combine four 1/200 shots, that would still add up to a 1/50 exposure, a lot more room for shake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Is everyone in personal attack mode today?

I don't get it either, I cleaned up a lot of unnecessary profanity and attacks. If people want to rack up infractions, then there they go, there's plenty to go around.
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post #61 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Many people have trouble taking even one photo without blur. Especially holding a slippery little phone at arm's length.

How difficult is it to hold the phone and point it for a fraction of a second? I'm not seeing the point of your comment.

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post #62 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

sorry for being obtuse (and i admit i didn't watch the entire presentation) but isn't "camera" an app that needs to be launched? or is all i have to do now is think about it to make it happen?

Yes. The crappy little built-in app has a new feature. But otherwise, it remains vastly inferior to many other camera apps.
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post #63 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Why not? It doesn't take away any functionality, and it's not like it takes all that long to do.

Because it will screw up the phone royally. And there is no compelling reason to mess around.
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post #64 of 112
9/1/10 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

The three shots are taken at the same time. Surely that was obvious?

How do they do that? Do they split the image with a prism and shine it onto 3 image sensors? Do you really know anything about this topic? Or did you just make up some sort of answer?

At the same time? HOW?
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post #65 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:00pm
I suspect they will just use the same photo at 3 different exposures with an extra long exposure 'session' of sorts. This isn't like an old camera where they had a physical shutter. They can easily save 3 images from the same 'exposure'.

Imagine a picture being taken, but instead of 3 distinct click and save events, they simply keep collecting photons (much like a video), while saving images from the stream at 3 points during the session (sorry if this is hard to visualize)

The first photo being the 'fast shutter speed' & save while continuing to collect sensor data and then save again for the "mid" exposure while continuing to collect image data, and finally, save the last (overexposed) file with the longest amount of 'shutter' time as the 3rd file.

Then stack the images. This stacking has been done for years by amateur astronomy buffs to collect more photons and to reduce signal to noise ratio. They could tweak image settings from 1st to 2nd to 3rd save and accomplish it all in the length of the longest exposure if they use some clever manipulation. My only question here is if they can stabilize the image, even over that fraction of a second. When you use this in Astronomy, you can stack hundreds of photos so you have much more flexibility.
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post #66 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post

I'm under the impression that the three photos are taken so quickly together as to appear that they are taken simultaneously.

The phone cameras already have lots of problems in low light conditions. ISTM that certain of the problems will triple in magnitude, like camera shake induced blur.

Appears simultaneous? To who?
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post #67 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

How difficult is it to hold the phone and point it for a fraction of a second? I'm not seeing the point of your comment.

Ask Aunt Millie how hard it is. Her pics suck.

As do most people's. Especially when using phones that require long exposures compared to a device with a good lens.

And HDR photos take MORE than 3 times as long to expose.

I'm prepared to be amazed. But I expect that this will work about as well (HA!) as Apple's Voice Command feature.
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post #68 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Ask Aunt Millie how hard it is. Her pics suck.

As do most people's. Especially when using phones that require long exposures compared to a device with a good lens.

And HDR photos take MORE than 3 times as long to expose.

I'm prepared to be amazed. But I expect that this will work about as well (HA!) as Apple's Voice Command feature.

Depends. If they use stacking, they can just align the photos assuming there isn't a lot of motion going on. Depending on the number of samples, they can choose the 'best 3' to get a good pic, even with a bit of shaking going on.

http://webpages.charter.net/darksky2.../stacking.html

http://www.djcash.demon.co.uk/astro/...HowItsDone.htm

I don't know how fast the speed of the sensor is, and I suspect a dark shot will take a lot longer and be much more prone to blur.
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post #69 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Ask Aunt Millie how hard it is. Her pics suck.

As do most people's. Especially when using phones that require long exposures compared to a device with a good lens.

Plenty of dedicated cameras have smaller apertures.

Quote:
And HDR photos take MORE than 3 times as long to expose.

Mostly correct, depending on how it is done, it could be twice the time or almost four times the time. If it stacks "grabs" of the same exposure, then expect twice the time. If it stacks separate, sequential exposures, then it's nearly four times longer in total.

Quote:
I'm prepared to be amazed. But I expect that this will work about as well (HA!) as Apple's Voice Command feature.

I don't use voice command but I don't see where it has hurt the rest of the phone's functions.
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post #70 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Mostly correct, depending on how it is done, it could be twice the time or almost four times the time. If it stacks "grabs" of the same exposure, then expect twice the time. If it stacks separate, sequential exposures, then it's nearly four times longer in total.

I wonder if they will just tweak the image settings for the same image for 3 different images and then stack them, or actually take 3 distinct frames?
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post #71 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I wonder if they will just tweak the image settings for the same image for 3 different images and then stack them, or actually take 3 distinct frames?

My understanding of HDR is that it requires three separate exposures.
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post #72 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I wonder if they will just tweak the image settings for the same image for 3 different images and then stack them, or actually take 3 distinct frames?

I don't know, all my comments are conjecture. I think there are a couple other workable ways to do it too. I'd like to hear an iOS developer's comments on it. Whatever method Apple uses might be better than what the third party program can achieve, I seem to recall developers don't get direct access to the sensor.
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post #73 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:37pm
Nice of Jobs NOT to say that HDR is an iPhone 4 only feature.
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post #74 of 112
9/1/10 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

Nice of Jobs NOT to say that HDR is an iPhone 4 only feature.

Their implementation of it may be but not the idea in general. There are tons of ways to carve up a turkey so to speak. I'm psyched about this as I've seen what stacking can do first hand. All of the stacking software offerings I've used have been community offerings without paid developers behind it so I'm very curious as to what Apple does with their implementation of it.

I'm just wondering if they will shoot a short video while tweaking the exposure live. Most pictures are taken with a set exposure, as are videos (generally speaking). If they tweaked the exposure 'live' so to speak while capturing three frames they could still get 3 pics in a very short amount of time.

If they use a single pic and just tweak the exposure and then stack it, they avoid the time-blurring effect altogether.

In any case..can't wait to see it.
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post #75 of 112
9/1/10 at 7:48pm
I'm curious how the Sep. 8th date was obtained--it was never mentioned in the article.

Overall, I'm really impressed with everything. I can't wait until 4.2 hits my iPad in November.
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post #76 of 112
9/1/10 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Depends. If they use stacking, they can just align the photos assuming there isn't a lot of motion going on. Depending on the number of samples, they can choose the 'best 3' to get a good pic, even with a bit of shaking going on.

http://webpages.charter.net/darksky2.../stacking.html

http://www.djcash.demon.co.uk/astro/...HowItsDone.htm

.



Very cool stuff. Thanks.
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post #77 of 112
9/1/10 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post




I don't use voice command but I don't see where it has hurt the rest of the phone's functions.



I don't think it has huit the rest of the phone's functions.

But it is a badly implemented mess. I had better voice command on my ancient Motorola.
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post #78 of 112
9/1/10 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

As the sensor doesn't physically change, I think they might have the camera take the basic shot and interpret it at the three settings, compare, mix and present.

Dunno. Justa thought.

I think you might be right
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post #79 of 112
9/1/10 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post


If they use a single pic and just tweak the exposure and then stack it, they avoid the time-blurring effect altogether.

In any case..can't wait to see it.


I hope it works well. It's hard to believe that they would feature it at the keynote if it were a POS.
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post #80 of 112
9/1/10 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I wonder how it would really work in real life because you need a tripod to shot the 3 photos --- otherwise they don't line up.

The iPhone now has accelerometers and gyros. Think about it.
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