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Apple's iOS 4.1 ships for iPhone next week, will add HDR photos - Page 3

post #81 of 112
I've been asking a photographer friend about HDR, since he's been using it actively for a couple of years now for his work. He tells me that it can be done hand-held but that nothing in the scene should be moving, and you can combine pretty much as many images as you want, but normally three -- one under, one over, one on exposure.
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post #82 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

you can combine pretty much as many images as you want, but normally three -- one under, one over, one on exposure.

As several folks here have suggested, it's quite possible to derive 3 separate exposures from 1 actual image capture.

The data the camera sensor records is akin to a RAW file created by a DSLR camera. They contain much more information and/or latitude than a JPEG file from the same camera can display.

It wouldn't really be so difficult for the software to bracket 3 different exposures from the RAW sensor data and combine them, creating an HDR image. I've done this with Photoshop on more than one occasion.

I don't think it's required that an "HDR" image be created from 2, 3, or more separate images, only that it display a High Dynamic Range, how you actually do that is irrelevant to the end result.

It's all speculation at this point though - We'll have to wait and see how it's implemented. It should be fairly easy to see if it's done with 3 consecutive exposures or derived from one.
post #83 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

How about giving us a "Mark All Read" option in Mail?

Have you submitted this feature request to Apple - that would be the best place to start...
post #84 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

That's the way I took it. Seems Steve tipped his hand, purposefully or not.

Nope, i think it was one of Steve's many slips - at one point he constantly referred to the iPod touch as 'the phone' - also have to say he was looking very pale, very tired and incredible thin again. Did anyone else note he actually referred to a notebook on the desk at one point as he seemed to need a prompt - I've never seen him make so many fluffs before during a keynote. He really didn't seem himself.
post #85 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtz View Post

Will flash work with HDR?

No reason why not - one pic is taken, three sets of exposure applied to the one exposure. under, regular, over. Not sure why people are having so much difficulty with this - using gating/multiple exposure settings from one click is nothing new in photography.
post #86 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Because it will screw up the phone. And it offers nothing that interests me. I'd have to give up too much in order to get stuff that strikes me as fluff.

Performance improvements are fluff?
post #87 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Yes. The crappy little built-in app has a new feature. But otherwise, it remains vastly inferior to many other camera apps.

Really - touch focus, HDR and ease of use make this an inferior app? Try out the android app I have to put up with on my HTC. That sucks. The iPhone camera is one of the best camera phones out there and it's images are consistently better than rival camera phones.
post #88 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

How do they do that? Do they split the image with a prism and shine it onto 3 image sensors? Do you really know anything about this topic? Or did you just make up some sort of answer?

At the same time? HOW?

The light data is captured digitally, then three files are recorded with different settings applied to them and an algorithm used to combine the highest contrast element aspects from each of the three resulting digital images - like gating on an SLR, but with automatic integration of the 'best' of the three. I'd imagine it scans the images and uses clipping data to spot the problem areas.

I'm a professional photographer and have been for 18 years - what's your background/knowledge on this subject?
post #89 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Ask Aunt Millie how hard it is. Her pics suck.

As do most people's. Especially when using phones that require long exposures compared to a device with a good lens.

And HDR photos take MORE than 3 times as long to expose.

I'm prepared to be amazed. But I expect that this will work about as well (HA!) as Apple's Voice Command feature.

You don't know what you're talking about, you're either trolling or a little bit thick. Sorry, but it seems obvious reading down your posts. HDR photos take MORE than 3 times as long to expose? Utter nonsense.
post #90 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

My understanding of HDR is that it requires three separate exposures.

Only on a film camera or older DSLR that doesn't capture raw data.
post #91 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Only on a film camera or older DSLR that doesn't capture raw data.

There has to be more to the requirements than that. I have two SLRs and two ILCs that capture raw but they don't have a built-in HDR function. Only one of them is more than 2 years old. They don't seem to have any provision to pull out three shots from a single exposure. Exposure bracketing gets me three shutter actuations, not three files out of the same exposure..
post #92 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Performance improvements are fluff?

No. The new features are fluff. The performance stuff doesn't apply to my 3GS.
post #93 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Really - touch focus, HDR and ease of use make this an inferior app? .


No, that is not what makes it an inferior app.


Try some alternatives. The App Store is chock-a-block with them.
post #94 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

No. The new features are fluff. The performance stuff doesn't apply to my 3GS.

There actually some tweaks to the A2DP (bluetooth stereo) profile that I've been waiting for.
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3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
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post #95 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfoto View Post

As several folks here have suggested, it's quite possible to derive 3 separate exposures from 1 actual image capture.

The data the camera sensor records is akin to a RAW file created by a DSLR camera. They contain much more information and/or latitude than a JPEG file from the same camera can display.

It wouldn't really be so difficult for the software to bracket 3 different exposures from the RAW sensor data and combine them, creating an HDR image. I've done this with Photoshop on more than one occasion.

I don't think it's required that an "HDR" image be created from 2, 3, or more separate images, only that it display a High Dynamic Range, how you actually do that is irrelevant to the end result.

It's all speculation at this point though - We'll have to wait and see how it's implemented. It should be fairly easy to see if it's done with 3 consecutive exposures or derived from one.

Thanks for the info. Right, we'll just have to wait and see. Of course Apple's method may be "magic" in that it won't be evident to the user how it's being done. I'd expect that kind of implementation from Apple, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Nope, i think it was one of Steve's many slips - at one point he constantly referred to the iPod touch as 'the phone' - also have to say he was looking very pale, very tired and incredible thin again. Did anyone else note he actually referred to a notebook on the desk at one point as he seemed to need a prompt - I've never seen him make so many fluffs before during a keynote. He really didn't seem himself.

Ah. Well, I haven't seen the video of the event yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Only on a film camera or older DSLR that doesn't capture raw data.

I will have to ask my photographer friend about it, but this is not how he explained HDR when I asked yesterday. He works in 100% digital and camera raw files, and combines them in Photoshop to create the HDR image. I trust his knowledge since he's been doing this for a couple of years now and has been making some remarkable images with HDR.
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post #96 of 112
Well, anything on iPhone 3G performance on iOS 4.1?
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Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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post #97 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by wealthychef View Post

Yeah, right. How about using actual heirarchical folders in Mail? I have hundreds of mail folders and they are in a neat compact heirarchy, except on my iPhone, where it is needed the most. On my phone, the folders are all laid out in a hokey expanded fashion, just horrible. I have to scroll to the ends of the earth to find a given mail folder. It's been years with this bug. I have zero faith that it was fixed, as there is maybe one Mail.app developer at Apple as far as I can tell, and he exists just to add stupid things like a To do list implemented as a mail folder. Wow, just like Microsoft Exchange! Make everything a mail folder!
Barf!

The lack of a feature that you'd like to see is not a 'bug'.
post #98 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

Well, anything on iPhone 3G performance on iOS 4.1?

Watch the keynote - Jobs states clearly and specifically that iPhone 3G performance will be improved.

Although I still don't get why new software is being optimised for legacy hardware. Most manufacturers wouldn't bother - particularly HTC where Android 2 and it's "old" phones are concerned (I made the mistake of buying a top of the line HTC two days before android 2 came out to then be told that my device couldn't run it).

There's certainly no expectation when buying technology for it to be updated a year down the line with a brand new OS (rather than a point update) and also have it optimised and tweaked for the older hardware at zero cost.

Good on Apple for doing this, but it just gives people further reason to complain, when they should appreciate Apple making the effort when none of Apple's competitors do the same.
post #99 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Thanks for the info. Right, we'll just have to wait and see. Of course Apple's method may be "magic" in that it won't be evident to the user how it's being done. I'd expect that kind of implementation from Apple, actually.



Ah. Well, I haven't seen the video of the event yet.



I will have to ask my photographer friend about it, but this is not how he explained HDR when I asked yesterday. He works in 100% digital and camera raw files, and combines them in Photoshop to create the HDR image. I trust his knowledge since he's been doing this for a couple of years now and has been making some remarkable images with HDR.

I'm sure he has. However this is an automated software procedure, not a professional output solution. What I told you is correct, it's nothing new and many cheap digital cameras on the market already take it. One shot - three files. It's really nothing complicated to understand. The "RAW" data is tweaked three ways internally, and the files combined. Two files are then outputted, the image as it would be originally processed and the 'improved' image.
post #100 of 112
It'll really get interesting once the photo app incorporates instant rack focus for close up and macro shots. Then after a little post-processing magic, you'd be able to set your focal length AFTER the shot's already been taken!

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post #101 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

I'm sure he has. However this is an automated software procedure, not a professional output solution. What I told you is correct, it's nothing new and many cheap digital cameras on the market already take it. One shot - three files. It's really nothing complicated to understand. The "RAW" data is tweaked three ways internally, and the files combined. Two files are then outputted, the image as it would be originally processed and the 'improved' image.

I assume you are referring to the upcoming iPhone method being automated. Probably, yes. I am only relating what a photographer friend told me about the process he uses now. He takes three frames (or more possibly sometimes -- I will have to ask) with different exposures and combines them in Photoshop. Not one raw image tweaked three ways in the camera, though I am not doubting that this is done also. Interesting what you say about a "professional output solution." This same friend is really jazzed by his iPhone camera, which I doubt many photographers would call "professional" equipment. But then he also got great photographs out of plastic toy cameras, back when he was still doing film.
Please don't be insane.
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post #102 of 112
I love the HDR idea. Last weekend I was trying to take photos on a camping trip. If I set the exposure for the mountains in the background, the foreground would be too dark; if I set it for the foreground, the mountains would wash out.

I don't care enough about this to spend time finding alternative apps, but when it's added to the default Camera app, I'll definitely give it a try.
post #103 of 112
By the way, I'm still reveling in the ability to set the exposure point by tapping the screen on my iPhone 4. I don't know if this technology is common on other devices or not, but coming from a six-year-old Kodak point-and-shoot it's amazing!
post #104 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

Watch the keynote - Jobs states clearly and specifically that iPhone 3G performance will be improved.

Although I still don't get why new software is being optimised for legacy hardware. Most manufacturers wouldn't bother - particularly HTC where Android 2 and it's "old" phones are concerned (I made the mistake of buying a top of the line HTC two days before android 2 came out to then be told that my device couldn't run it).

There's certainly no expectation when buying technology for it to be updated a year down the line with a brand new OS (rather than a point update) and also have it optimised and tweaked for the older hardware at zero cost.

Good on Apple for doing this, but it just gives people further reason to complain, when they should appreciate Apple making the effort when none of Apple's competitors do the same.

The thing is that Apple has been saying we'd be getting updates for two years after the original introduction of a given device and set up the accounting to work with that, so really, Apple is simply fulfilling their promise. The thing is, it really doesn't feel much like iOS 4, it seems to be iOS3 with folders, unified inbox and less efficient all around. One particular program doesn't work properly on iPhone 4 works just fine in iPhone 3G running iOS4, the best reason I can come up with is that iOS4 on 3G is still using a lot of the same code base as iPhone OS 3.
post #105 of 112
Where on earth do you get the September 8th date from? There is no mention of this date on Apple's website for iOS 4.1 nor is it anywhere in their Press Releases?
post #106 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Starr View Post

Where on earth do you get the September 8th date from? There is no mention of this date on Apple's website for iOS 4.1 nor is it anywhere in their Press Releases?

Assuming you're referring to the release date of iOS 4.1...

Steve announced it at the press conference/intro event (Sept. 1) and said it would be available in a week (7 days).

If my math skills are still intact, 1 + 7 = 8

Just my theory...
post #107 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfoto View Post

Assuming you're referring to the release date of iOS 4.1...

Steve announced it at the press conference/intro event (Sept. 1) and said it would be available in a week (7 days).

If my math skills are still intact, 1 + 7 = 8

Just my theory...

Steve said, "next week" not "in a week"
post #108 of 112
Useful in some situations. BUT WOULDN'T Having a better camera do the same thing??
post #109 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Useful in some situations. BUT WOULDN'T Having a better camera do the same thing??

It depends. iPhone 4's sensor has pretty decent dynamic range, there are better sensors in bigger phones, make sure you get one with a backlit sensor bigger than 1/2.5". Another thing is, most people don't carry around a separate camera all the time, having it in something you do carry everywhere lets you get better shots than you would otherwise have gotten without this feature.
post #110 of 112
You know, it's the last line of this article that bothers me...

"That's on a phone," Jobs quipped after the title was shown off. "That's pretty remarkable.

I'm not saying that this isn't remarkable, but I'd really like to see some enthusiasm or more 'outside the box' development. For three years+ now, Apple has been phone-centric in the public eye. Yes, what the iPhones can do is truly remarkable considering where mobile technology was 3-4 years ago. But that was 3-4 years ago, now we have devices that are competing very well with the iPhone. We were surprised by the iPhone, but since then has anything truly been surprising with it. We get a yearly hardware/software refresh that increases performance and features respectively, but nothing truly 'new'. Even the iPad, as new as it is, is just a new form-factor for an iPodTouch/iPhone that doesn't make phone calls.

I hope that Apple has something coming down the line that will truly surprise us, and continue the great trend of revolutionizing an industry. Some folks are getting a chance to do that right now, just take a look at www.plexapp.com, and their announcement about LG Electronics.

-Trick
post #111 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

There actually some tweaks to the A2DP (bluetooth stereo) profile that I've been waiting for.


yes they have!! with 4.1 I can now skip ahead or back a song, activate voice commands, volume and pause/play. But even better is the sound quality has improved (according to 2 friends I have called using my bluetooth headset).
post #112 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

Well, anything on iPhone 3G performance on iOS 4.1?

I asked the same question in another thread and got excoriated by hysterical fanboys. Apparently, if you watch the keynote, Steve does mention that 4.1 will improve performance for 3G iPhones. However, if you read any of the Apple TV stories published here on AI, there's no mention of this, which is why I asked the question myself.
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