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Google disputes Apple's indirect claims about Android activations

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 
Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs suggested Wednesday that reported Android activations from Google are falsely inflated because they include upgrades -- an insinuation that the search giant quickly disputed.

Kicking off his keynote Wednesday, Jobs said that more than 120 million iOS devices have shipped since the iPhone first launched in 2007. Then, in a thinly veiled attack against Google's Android mobile operating system, he revealed how many iOS devices are activated daily.

"People are throwing around a lot of numbers as to how many of their operating systems they're activating per day," Jobs told the crowd. "We are activating a little over 230,000 iOS devices per day. And that's new activations."

He continued: "We think that some of our friends are counting upgrades in their numbers. If we counted upgrades in our numbers, they'd be way higher than 230,000. But we think the most appropriate way to count them is just new activations."

Those "friends," of course, are officials at Google, who recently claimed that more than 200,000 Android devices were being activated every day.

But a spokesperson for Google disputed Jobs' claims. In a statement given to Fortune, the company suggested that Jobs' comments were inaccurate.

"The Android activations numbers do not include upgrades and are, in fact, only a portion of the Android devices in the market, since we only include devices that have Google services," the spokesperson said.

Earlier this year, it was alleged that Jobs feels betrayed by Google, a company that Apple was close partners with until it began producing phones that resemble the iPhone. The New York Times alleged that Jobs felt Google "violated the alliance" between the two companies.

At Wednesday's keynote, Jobs also revealed that more than 6.5 billion applications have been downloaded from the App Store on the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. That's 200 applications every second.

There are currently more than 250,000 applications available on the App Store, Jobs also said. Of those, 25,000 are available for the iPad and its 9.7-inch display.
post #2 of 70
God this forum is going to go south really quickly......................
post #3 of 70
Which is their right to do if they believe said claims to be misleading/false.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #4 of 70
Steve Jobs wouldn't be a good CEO if he told the complete truth.
post #5 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Steve Jobs wouldn't be a good CEO if he told the complete truth.

More like compulsive lying, if you believe his wikipedia page. Let's not forget that Internet Explorer is the best browser for the Mac and AT&T is the best cellular provider.

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post #6 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Steve Jobs wouldn't be a good CEO if he told the complete truth.

Tells the truth = Ordinary Worker
Tells incomplete truth = CEO
Tells complete lies = Politician
post #7 of 70
You cannot just take statements out of their context though.

At the time IE was the best browser option for the Mac. AT&T has been the best carrier option for Apple. These are true at one particular time but things change and it doesn't mean they have to remain true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

More like compulsive lying, if you believe his wikipedia page. Let's not forget that Internet Explorer is the best browser for the Mac and AT&T is the best cellular provider.
post #8 of 70
I actually listened to event whilst driving home in my car and don't remember Jobs mentioning Google or Android at all.

I'll have to have a rerun of the event unless someone here knows otherwise.
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post #9 of 70
This childish feud is just moronic. What's the need to even comment on activations? Is Jobs developing insecurities about Android or something. Geez.
post #10 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Tells the truth = Ordinary Worker
Tells incomplete truth = CEO
Tells complete lies = Politician

He he and the truth shall set you free.
Do you think money has something to do with it?
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #11 of 70
Who's to believe Gaagle? After all, Eric T. Mole sat on Board at Apple and used his presence there to further his own ambitions and NOT serve the interests of Apple and its shareholders.
post #12 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

I actually listened to event whilst driving home in my car and don't remember Jobs mentioning Google or Android at all.

I'll have to have a rerun of the event unless someone here knows otherwise.

I was listening as well and got the impression that he was correcting the media's numbers about activations in general (including iOS devices). I don't remember other companies being mentioned at all.
post #13 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Tells the truth = Ordinary Worker
Tells incomplete truth = CEO
Tells complete lies = Politician

How true, how true!
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Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
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post #14 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

But a spokesperson for Google disputed Jobs' claims. In a statement given to Fortune, the company suggested that Jobs' comments were inaccurate. "The Android activations numbers do not include upgrades and are, in fact, only a portion of the Android devices in the market, since we only include devices that have Google services," the spokesperson said.

07/20/2010: Apple announces 100M iOS devices sold (Q3 conference call).
09/01/2010: Apple announces 120M iOS devices sold (special iPod event).

That's 500,000 sales per day during that period. Apple's 230,000 activations per day don't include over half of the devices it sells, which don't have a cellular network activation.
post #15 of 70
I doubt if Jobs exaggerated the 230,000 iOS activations/day since he otherwise will be in deep trouble with SEC . This means Apple is on track to selling well over 20 million iOS devices this quarter. No matter how you divide this number among iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches; it becomes obvious that they are well underway to having another blockbuster quarter. How come no one is talking about this? Have I made a wrong assumption here?
post #16 of 70
At 200,000 activations a day, that's 18 million devices a quarter. I don't think Android is selling that many. Blackberry and iPhones are near the 10 million mark. I think IDC published numbers that showed that the market share for devices other than Blackberry, iPhone, and Nokia was 25%. Assuming they were all Android, that would give them approximately 12-13 million units, still less than 18.

Here's another one. iPhone sales are close to Android. Even if Android has more smartphone share, that means Android should have similar activation numbers to the iPhone. Of 230,000 iOS devices, I estimate only 100,000 are iPhones (making about 9 million a quarter, an accurate figure). How can Android be selling twice the # of smartphones as iPhone does and not directly benefit Motorola and HTC? Wouldn't we all notice it by now?
post #17 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

...AT&T has been the best carrier option for Apple. These are true at one particular time but things change and it doesn't mean they have to remain true.

For Apple is right. For their customers? That's another story.
post #18 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarina View Post

I was listening as well and got the impression that he was correcting the media's numbers about activations in general (including iOS devices). I don't remember other companies being mentioned at all.

No other companies mentioned but Jobs said "we think some of our friends included upgraded in their..."
post #19 of 70
this is stupid.

He insinuated third parties count figures for APPLE that include upgrades.
post #20 of 70
Those are huge numbers. I'm guessing that 230,000 devices will get a boost when the new touch becomes available. I think that the update to the touch to include all widely requested features was largely driven by the Android numbers. The only feature that was tossed around that did not make it was 3G, which was pretty outlandish even for someone like me who loves me Touch.
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post #21 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You cannot just take statements out of their context though.

At the time IE was the best browser option for the Mac. AT&T has been the best carrier option for Apple. These are true at one particular time but things change and it doesn't mean they have to remain true.

Well, at the time I had selected Netscape and Verizon so I disagreed with both of his assertions.

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post #22 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

God this forum is going to go south really quickly......................

You joined in 2009. How long has AppleInsider existed?
post #23 of 70
It really doesn't matter how many crap-droids get activated. They are all junk anyway IMHO!
And the frandroids just keep throwing away their latest whatever Android just to stay on the cutting edge. Like a cancer specialist! LOL!
post #24 of 70
Apple is a fine one to talk trash about anyone else's numbers. I would still like to see the return numbers on iPhones with antenna issues. Not the Apple Care complaint figures he quoted at the press conference. ATT is bad enough, but with that ridiculous external antenna I can't believe the iPhone sold as many units as Apple claims if people are dropping calls all over the country.

As far as the iPad is concerned, same thing. I would love to see the return figures from people who spent five hundred or more bucks for this stupid thing and sat down on the couch and tried to visit their favorite websites only to find holes where flash content would usually be. Oh, I have to get up and go to my iMac to visit this or that site. Or it doesn't display correctly using Safari.

Yeah, I know. The antenna issue was made up by bloggers and if websites use flash then they are stupid and shouldn't be visited. Apple rules the internet.

Whatever you say Steve, thy will be done.
post #25 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

At Wednesday's keynote, Jobs also revealed that more than 6.5 billion applications have been downloaded from the App Store on the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. That's 200 applications every second.

DELETE: "200 applications every second" doesn't make sense next to 6.5 B apps downloaded. They are different metrics. There have been over 6.5 B downloads (a total), and they are serving up 200 apps per second for download (pace of growth/activity).

CORRECTION: As was so gingerly pointed out to me, if you consider the 6.5 B apps downloaded a metric for a 1 year period (the article doesn't say), then yes, that is ~200 apps per second. I made the wrong assumption that Jobs was stating a lifetime amount and failed to check that before I posted. Perhaps the article could be more specific to help those like me who may not quickly notice the correlation. Or, I just shouldn't post comments when there is math involved.

Regarding whether what Jobs says is true or false I refer you to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

My opinion: I think Jobs does a masterful job of PR for Apple. Don't take everything he says as Gospel Truth.
post #26 of 70
Such hyperventilation and such weird attributions!

All he is doing is what any smart CEO should do vis-a-vis his firm and industry: shape the conversation to move to a set of metrics that work in your favor and make you look good. (In this case, 'iOS' has replaced the actual device, and 'new activation' has replaced 'all activations.')

To some extent he is succeeding, since a company like Google feels compelled to respond with the same statistic; right now, their OS has only one type of device, namely the smartphone, so that's all he can talk about. When the GooglePad or GooglePod (or whatever) is introduced, I'll bet you that Schmidt will start throwing around similar numbers. Right now, Apple is the only company that can claim a relevant share in all the main categories of handheld (PMPs, smartphones, and tablets). Others will no doubt get there.

SJ is simply trying to change the terms of the debate. Time will tell - and the market will decide - whether that will succeed or a fail.

Hats off to him, in my view.
post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

And the frandroids just keep throwing away their latest whatever Android just to stay on the cutting edge. Like a cancer specialist! LOL!

are we so different? http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
post #28 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Apple is a fine one to talk trash about anyone else's numbers. I would still like to see the return numbers on iPhones with antenna issues. Not the Apple Care complaint figures he quoted at the press conference. ATT is bad enough, but with that ridiculous external antenna I can't believe the iPhone sold as many units as Apple claims if people are dropping calls all over the country.

As far as the iPad is concerned, same thing. I would love to see the return figures from people who spent five hundred or more bucks for this stupid thing and sat down on the couch and tried to visit their favorite websites only to find holes where flash content would usually be. Oh, I have to get up and go to my iMac to visit this or that site. Or it doesn't display correctly using Safari.

Yeah, I know. The antenna issue was made up by bloggers and if websites use flash then they are stupid and shouldn't be visited. Apple rules the internet.

Whatever you say Steve, thy will be done.

Why do you persist in being such a relentlessly negative guy?! Give it a break. You're way past tiresome at this point.

You can quite easily get off your a$$ and check on the returns on these products with your local Best Buy, or ATT Store, or Radio Shack, if you're truly interested. Since you aren't, I doubt that you will.

It would be nice in the meantime if you didn't spout nonsense.
post #29 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by VdkaShaker View Post

"200 applications every second" doesn't make sense next to 6.5 B apps downloaded. They are different metrics. There have been over 6.5 B downloads (a total), and they are serving up 200 apps per second for download (pace of growth/activity).

Regarding whether what Jobs says is true or false I refer you to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

My opinion: I think Jobs does a masterful job of PR for Apple. Don't take everything he says as Gospel Truth.

200 Apps /sec X 60 sec/min X 60 min /hr X 24 hr/day X 365/year = 6,307,200,000 Applications in One Year.

Don't ever become an Engineer or Scientist. We don't need your lack of basic conversion capabilities to tank another Hubble mission.
post #30 of 70
Regardless of what activations they are counting, the number is largely pointless.

Apple got their "Activations per day" number from a full years worth of sales, I doubt Google considers more than a month at a time right now. Apple's activations per day would be much higher if they started counting from the iPhone launch.

Comparing Apple's and Google's activations per day is meaningless if they are using different formulas to calculate them.
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post #31 of 70
It's not just about how many instances of an OS are there... but what device is it? Many of the Android devices aren't even smart phones - just junk - who cares?

The real test is the usefulness of the complete device. iOS beats Android 6 to 1 (!) as OS detected on the web. 6 to 1 - are you kidding me?? Really, we shouldn't even be having this discussion. It's like arguing which is better, a Walkman or an iPod. Get real people.


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post #32 of 70
Just joined and am amazed by all the childish comments. Either people hate Apple (obvious) or love Apple (obvious). I, for one, love Apple as long as they execute well -- antenna problems and lack of Flash does not matter since people buy their products faster than they can make them. I have made a boat load of money over the past couple of years by buying when the Apple-haters beat down the stock and selling when the Apple-lovers move the stock ahead of itself. Apple is executing very well on all cylinders right now. The math is simple (look beyond your emotional baggage). Activating over 230,000 iOS/day translates to another blowout quarter -- which means the stock will climb to well over $300 by year end. I am not selling. Go Apple....
post #33 of 70
I assumed the "veiled" reference was about Android activations. But my feeling is that none of those numbers are right and even if they are what does it change?... and does it really matter on the consumer level? Sure, Steve cares... but do you?

Thank goodness we had a president's speech to slice and dice in the same week as Jobs' presentation.
post #34 of 70
The Google doth protest too much, methinks.
post #35 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

200 Apps /sec X 60 sec/min X 60 min /hr X 24 hr/day X 365/year = 6,307,200,000 Applications in One Year.

Don't ever become an Engineer or Scientist. We don't need your lack of basic conversion capabilities to tank another Hubble mission.

Wow. ThanX for the flame. Guess I just mis-interpreted the information Jobs was presenting and how it was being referenced in the article. So, 6.5 B was in reference to a year, and not the lifetime of the App Store. My bad. I didn't bother to do the math. Glad this wasn't that important.
post #36 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppar View Post

Just joined and am amazed by all the childish comments. Either people hate Apple (obvious) or love Apple (obvious). I, for one, love Apple as long as they execute well -- antenna problems and lack of Flash does not matter since people buy their products faster than they can make them. I have made a boat load of money over the past couple of years by buying when the Apple-haters beat down the stock and selling when the Apple-lovers move the stock ahead of itself. Apple is executing very well on all cylinders right now. The math is simple (look beyond your emotional baggage). Activating over 230,000 iOS/day translates to another blowout quarter -- which means the stock will climb to well over $300 by year end. I am not selling. Go Apple....

Welcome to the board, and, as a relative newbie myself, I agree with your observations. I try to stay out of the trash-talking, and filter out that stuff to get to the issues that interest me, and, on balance, it is a great source of Apple information (and other stuff, vis a vis tech issues).

Just ignore the rabid fanboys and trolls, and you will enjoy the experience. Welcome again.
post #37 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Welcome to the board, and, as a relative newbie myself, I agree with your observations. I try to stay out of the trash-talking, and filter out that stuff to get to the issues that interest me, and, on balance, it is a great source of Apple information (and other stuff, vis a vis tech issues).

Just ignore the rabid fanboys and trolls, and you will enjoy the experience. Welcome again.

Damn speaking of new 72+ post in under 2 months?
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post #38 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

The Google doth protest too much, methinks.

Yeth.

.
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post #39 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Tells the truth = Ordinary Worker
Tells incomplete truth = CEO
Tells complete lies = Politician

Only an ordinary worker could have stated this so truthfully.
post #40 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post

Damn speaking of new 72+ post in under 2 months?

Yeah - got started here when I was one of the first i4 owners, with the antenna issues, so had to write a bunch to get people to recognize that I wasn't a troll or fanboy, but a concerned consumer. That took a lot of posts to resolve - now wish they would resolve the antenna issue, which I suppose will be incorporated (in silence, apparently) in upcoming versions of the i4.

(just coat the d**m thing already, weave it into the manufacturing process, and folks will get the idea soon enough). Hey, maybe even Consumer Reports will give it their blessing.
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