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Apple's iOS tops Linux to become third largest browsing platform - Page 2

post #41 of 97
And iOS is on platforms that don't require a data plan (iPod and iPad) whereas android thus far is strictly on phones. it doesn't look like android is even going to bother to compete with devices like the ipod, but wait until the android powered tablets hit the shelves and report back.
post #42 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

You probably mean UNIX server not Linux server, wich is like OS X or iOS a UNIX derivate.

Linux still makes up most servers, other Unixes are fairly small, with Solaris coming in second. The number of Mac OS X based servers is practically zero

take a look at uptime.netcraft.com
post #43 of 97
Here's the full data showing all OSes, not just the selective subset that plays well in Apple-centric forums:


http://www.netmarketshare.com/operat...e.aspx?qprid=8

Yep, more than two decades later and Mac OS still has half its peak marketshare, while Windows has 91.34%.
post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Yep, more than two decades later and Mac OS still has half its peak marketshare, while Windows has 91.34%.

Yep, more than two decades later and you still don't understand that Apple chooses not to license their OS to every Tom, Dick, and Harry PC vendor on the planet because they are capable of not just putting together a PC or just making an OS or just around software for a PC OS, but are capable of the creating a whole package which is why they take 1/3 of all the proits from the PC industry. Despite your insistence on the subject Apple could license their OS to everyone, but no one else is able to make PC sales as profitable as Apple per quarter.
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post #45 of 97
Does iOS have a persistent browser cache yet?

Because if it's still behind Android and all desktop systems in that regard, frequently-accessed pages would yield an artificially high traffic rate, making a limitation of the system look like a bump in market share.
post #46 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Does iOS have a persistent browser cache yet?

Because if it's still behind Android and all desktop systems in that regard, frequently-accessed pages would yield an artificially high traffic rate, making a limitation of the system look like a bump in market share.

You mean that iOS total browser cache limit that is at least 2x as large as Android Froyo v2.2?
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post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

... Most notably video playback, which is much more efficient from the browser or from a dedicated app. This is a real issue for Adobe. It, in itself, wont kill Flash, but it will chip away at Flashs percentage of use for such services.

Precisely. There was no reason for Flash to be killed before smartphones and other portable computing devices began playing video. Now Flash's inefficiency will help to bring it down in the mobile space. (Not to mention the fact that Flash apps in general aren't designed for multi-touch and need a cursor.)

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post #48 of 97
I wonder if iOS has proliferated more than Solaris, Fragdroid, all the Linux mutants, etc. It certainly must be the most popular UNIX variant in the consumer electronics space, with 160 million iOS devices already out there...

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post #49 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Precisely. There was no reason for Flash to be killed before smartphones and other portable computing devices began playing video. Now Flash's inefficiency will help to bring it down in the mobile space. (Not to mention the fact that Flash apps in general aren't designed for multi-touch and need a cursor.)

This was one of the many major hurdles Adobe had to tackle before Flash could go give for any touch based system. They do seem have tackled that pretty well, but most developers are having to alter their code if they want their Flash apps to work effectively. I still have yet to see a Flash anything on a phone work more effectively and more efficiently than the equivalent native app or webcode.

Personally, I dont think Adobe will ever be able to figure it out. They were lazy for too long at the wrong time when the entire game changed. Now we phones with real browsers, that are touch based, with real apps and dynamic webcode that has features that was capable in Flash just a coupel years ago.


PS: The streaming video using HTTP LIve Streaming was a huge success on Wednesday despite some having some issue from time to time. It was a live event, after all. If you are using an iOS device of a machine running Snow Leopard you can watch the recorded video in HTTP Live Streaming. Other OSes use the .MOV video stream, which has a much smaller bit rate and is more choppy according to my testing between Safari, Firefox and Chrome on Snow Leopard.

I bring this up because HTTP Live Streaming is a dynamic service that offers encrypted streams, the one thing Flash still had going for it over simply using the basic <video> and <audio> tag sin HTML5. I think its only a matter of time before other browsers/OSes incorporate HTTP Live Streaming.
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post #50 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You mean that iOS total browser cache limit that is at least 2x as large as Android Froyo v2.2?

Per downloaded component, yes, but Android's is persistent while iOS appears not to be (unless they've finally caught up with the rest of the world).

For those who misunderstood the statistic in the article, that accounts for the seeming loss of Linux traffic: as a percentage of overall traffic, because Linux caching is so superior to iOS' it will result in fewer redundant downloads even if the same number of pages are accessed.
post #51 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

I wonder if iOS has proliferated more than Solaris, Fragdroid, all the Linux mutants, etc. It certainly must be the most popular UNIX variant in the consumer electronics space, with 160 million iOS devices already out there...

Im not sure if iOS is UNIX certified or simply UNIX-like, as previously noted, but either way I think its a fair to refer to the "OS X" umbrella here since I think both the Mac OS and iOS forks include the same Kernel and Darwin base.
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post #52 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Yep, more than two decades later and Mac OS still has half its peak marketshare, while Windows has 91.34%.

And, yet, with only 5% market share, Apple has 35% of the entire industry's profits. Which would you rather have- market share or profits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Linux still makes up most servers, other Unixes are fairly small, with Solaris coming in second. The number of Mac OS X based servers is practically zero

take a look at uptime.netcraft.com

Funny, but that site does nothing to support your contention (that there are practically zero OS X based servers). In fact, there are a lot - especially considering that Apple really doesn't push the server or the enterprise market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

You probably mean UNIX server not Linux server, wich is like OS X or iOS a UNIX derivate.

Wrong. OS X is a full, certified Unix.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...tification.ars

I wonder why so many uninformed people have to parade their ignorance-just so they have an excuse to bash Apple?
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post #53 of 97
Apple is achieving all this in the mobile space . . . without Flash. That's pretty significant.

It shows just how fast Flash is losing relevance.
post #54 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

Linux still makes up most servers, other Unixes are fairly small, with Solaris coming in second. The number of Mac OS X based servers is practically zero

take a look at uptime.netcraft.com

How amusing that the top providers have chosen BSD over Linux. Also the Jan 2009 netcraft survey indicated Windows had half the server market according to wikipedia. Not sure how that works given that IIS share wasn't that high.

Most webservers maybe but not total servers. Windows seems to still dominate that arena given how almost every IT shop is windows centric.
post #55 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Oh really? Flash is obsolete? Hmm. Still see it all over the web. Oh wait, you don't notice it because you don't have it.

Flash is a medium to expand the capabilities of the browser beyond popping up video and photos and maybe a sound or too. HTML5 has it's place, and it's great, but there are things that it just won't do and some that it doesn't do effectively. If you did professional web development for a living, you'd know that there are somethings that flash does a better job on and others that are best left to Javascript/HTML. I do not create an entire website in flash. And I hate websites that are completely flash, but some elements on a website might have Flash. (Not advertisements, btw. I hate those just as much as everyone else).

Adobe is working on adding accelerated 3D capabilities to flash. HTML5/Javascript definitely won't do that effectively. Maybe in the future it could be expanded to add more functionality, but it may take another decade.

Sorry to say this, but Steve Jobs can't kill Flash just by saying he won't allow it on his devices. He doesn't have that much of the market. And many of the people that I know have chosen android over iOS because it promised Flash. Adobe delivered. It's still beta, but it's impressive even on a single core 650mhz phone.

It is true that Flash is not dead yet. But accelerated 3D to Flash is a waste of time and will eat up even more resources. 10.1 GPU decoding is rubbish, it only applies to huge-bandwidth gobbling HD streams. 3D accelerate what on Flash? For Flash games? For 2D animations and Flash menus? Adobe is barking up the wrong tree.

And why is the mobile Flash beta still in beta? If it was so impressive, why isn't it on all the major Android and Blackberry phones?

Show me Android phones, tablets and Blackberry phones running Flash without high battery and CPU use. Show me shipping products. Not promised updates, betas and other such shenanigans.

The new battle of this decade is traditional vs mobile computing. Flash and Microsoft is on one side, and HTML(5) and iOS, on the other. Android is trying to bridge both sides, but may end up becoming too ambitious.

That said, I can't imagine why Apple has to be the only company trying to bring sense to the mobile and computing arena. Android is important as well, that's cool. But Flash, seems destined to struggle on mobile implementations. There's been a lot of promises by Adobe but I'm not seeing widespread, real world results.
post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Personally, I dont think Adobe will ever be able to figure it out. They were lazy for too long at the wrong time when the entire game changed. Now we phones with real browsers, that are touch based, with real apps and dynamic webcode that has features that was capable in Flash just a coupel years ago...

I can't imagine still where the hell Adobe dropped the ball. They MAKE HTML and CSS and Ajax development products. They make visual and video products. It's all there. Flash is just one portion of what they do. PDF is widespread. All Adobe needs is to simply, make Flash work on a mobile device, reliably, intelligently, and make Flash as resource-unintensive as possible. Forget 10.1 with GPU decoding, that's just for video right now. 3D accelerated Flash games is all cool, but will never be up to the level of even iOS devices in any widespread way. Adobe, from 2009, should have thrown resources at a truly universal Flash 11 player and development tools. Something went seriously wrong from 2008 with regards to how Adobe views Flash. They were pushing for Air for example, so that you had native desktop apps. Flash DRM media players for streaming and Internet TV... Wrong direction. The mobile revolution was underfoot, and they're trying to cram things back down from desktop to mobile/tablet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Keeper_Fan_Mod View Post

And iOS is on platforms that don't require a data plan (iPod and iPad) whereas android thus far is strictly on phones. it doesn't look like android is even going to bother to compete with devices like the ipod, but wait until the android powered tablets hit the shelves and report back.

Yup, 9 months since iPad was announced and I'm still waiting for an actual globally-shipping iPad competitor, Android or otherwise. I'll check again next year on Android tablets "hitting the shelves".
post #57 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

How amusing that the top providers have chosen BSD over Linux. Also the Jan 2009 netcraft survey indicated Windows had half the server market according to wikipedia. Not sure how that works given that IIS share wasn't that high.

Most webservers maybe but not total servers. Windows seems to still dominate that arena given how almost every IT shop is windows centric.

that was freebsd and what is amusing about it? its a good operating system. whats amusing is i see nothing with os x server. apple doesn't really care about enterprise. i have pleaded with engineer for some apple competition for exchange. he suggested 'xythos'.
google runs on linux.
hotmail,live runs on windows (took them forever to get off of freebds though)
those are huge systems.
freebsd is a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.

<removed. woke up on the wrong side of the bed>
post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And, yet, with only 5% market share, Apple has 35% of the entire industry's profits. Which would you rather have- market share or profits?




As a buyer, I want to have a good ecosystem. So I choose market share. In this regard, the trends are good for Android.

As a seller, I want to get big profits any way I possibly can. Apple is very good at that. And make no mistake, Apple wants bigtime market share in order to keep up its ecosystem in order to keep up its profits.
post #59 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

How amusing that the top providers have chosen BSD over Linux.


Why is that amusing? I don't get it.
post #60 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im not sure if iOS is UNIX certified or simply UNIX-like, as previously noted, but either way I think its a fair to refer to the "OS X" umbrella here since I think both the Mac OS and iOS forks include the same Kernel and Darwin base.

hats off to apple, they did what none of the others could do. built a wonderful unix system that anyone can use. not to diminish in any way the hard work put into what went before and what curently goes on with linux etc, but Jobs took unix away from the geeks that kept it in the stone age graphically, and produced a masterpiece.
post #61 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Can we have any discussion that doesn't descend into the Flash debate?

Evidently, no. This thread is the perfect example of how trolls dominate threads on this forum. I count 3 bonafide trolls in this thread.. All are on my ignore list and yet almost every response is quoting their completely asinine posts--so I get to read their gibberish anyway in the quotes/responses by others. Otherwise there is no way to follow the conversation. So once again, the trolls win. Although I fail to see what their victory achieves for them. Point being, we all need to update our ignore lists or have every thread turn into a flash/antenna-gate/etc discussion. Interwebs rule # 1: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!
post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

that was freebsd and what is amusing about it?

It's amusing because linux proponents invariably talk about server share and linux dominance while the top tier providers without an ideological ax to grind appear to choose bsd for better stability and uptime.

Quote:
its a good operating system. whats amusing is i see nothing with os x server.

OS X server isn't something likely to show up on netcraft or used as ISP machines (mini colo being one of the few exceptions). It targets the same market as Windows Small Business Server and supports apple shops that do a lot of content creation on xserves.

Web servers aren't the only kind of servers. Given that web servers are commodity servers anyway I have no idea why anyone would expect Apple to compete in this market at all.

Quote:
apple doesn't really care about enterprise. i have pleaded with engineer for some apple competition for exchange. he suggested 'xythos'.

Apple cares about enterprise...recent improvements in iOS for the enterprise shows this. It just doesn't care to go toe to toe against Microsoft in its exchange/ad/sharepoint stronghold.

That said, Apple does provide lightweight alternatives that can serve the small business market. A small business user can happily run without exchange with just the stuff in SLS.

Quote:
google runs on linux.
hotmail,live runs on windows (took them forever to get off of freebds though)
those are huge systems.

So? You could run huge web systems on OS X Server if you wanted to. Not sure why you would want to because of cost but are you implying that you couldn't?

Quote:
freebsd is a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.

Right...you mean like Google? Wake me when they release their internal version of Linux...ain't going to happen. Even the FSF is afraid of Google...or GPL3 would have had the afferro clauses embedded as the purists wanted.

Freebsd is a good choice period if you aren't going to go with RHEL or SLES. And the primary reason to go with RHEL or SLES is a solid service contract. IMHO the reason folks choose Linux over BSD for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose Linux over BSD IMO.

As far as open permissive licenses vs closed copyleft license give me open permissive licenses any day of the week but that is personal preference.

Quote:
oh and apple doesn't have a web server does it? oh thats right, apache. why didn't they 'invent' their own?

Apache is Apache 2.0 license (permissive) and not GPL...so I guess from your perspective it's a good choice for companies that want to use the code and then not share what they build on top of it.

In any case, Apple didn't build it's userland either. It's largely taken from FreeBSD. Nor did they build CUPS (but now support it) or webkit. They didn't invent their own web server because there is no reason to.

I'm not even sure what your point is.
post #63 of 97
[QUOTE=nht;1708310]It's amusing because linux proponents invariably talk about server share and linux dominance while the top tier providers without an ideological ax to grind appear to choose bsd for better stability and uptime.



OS X server isn't something likely to show up on netcraft or used as ISP machines (mini colo being one of the few exceptions). It targets the same market as Windows Small Business Server and supports apple shops that do a lot of content creation on xserves.

Web servers aren't the only kind of servers. Given that web servers are commodity servers anyway I have no idea why anyone would expect Apple to compete in this market at all.



Apple cares about enterprise...recent improvements in iOS for the enterprise shows this. It just doesn't care to go toe to toe against Microsoft in its exchange/ad/sharepoint stronghold.

That said, Apple does provide lightweight alternatives that can serve the small business market. A small business user can happily run without exchange with just the stuff in SLS.



So? You could run huge web systems on OS X Server if you wanted to. Not sure why you would want to because of cost but are you implying that you couldn't?



Right...you mean like Google? Wake me when they release their internal version of Linux...ain't going to happen. Even the FSF is afraid of Google...or GPL3 would have had the afferro clauses embedded as the purists wanted.

Freebsd is a good choice period if you aren't going to go with RHEL or SLES. And the primary reason to go with RHEL or SLES is a solid service contract. IMHO the reason folks choose Linux over BSD for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose Linux over BSD IMO.





----i happen to think that the the reason folks choose freebsd over linux for servers is either personal preference or ignorance. There's no compelling technical reason to choose freebsd over linux. IMO.
post #64 of 97
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post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i feel so sad for all the ignorant that use linux. too bad they aren't as enlightened as you.

Well, yah, I fell pretty bad for them too. Actually, I really do if they aren't RHEL or SLES users (including CENTOS clones in that number). Ubuntu LTS is a freaking disaster for the enterprise if you actually want stability. I know some folks that wanted to go with Gentoo. Yeah, I feel bad for them in a big way.

Anyway nice dodge on your position about how permissive open source is only for greedy corps who want to steal your code.

Linux and OSX hardly even compete against each other (ignoring Android for the moment). Linux on the desktop has been DOA for the last decade and no more relevant than BSD on the desktop so it's not surprising that iOS webstats outrank linux. But hey, maybe 2011 will be the year of the Linux on the Desktop.
post #66 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Well, yah, I fell pretty bad for them too. Actually, I really do if they aren't RHEL or SLES users (including CENTOS clones in that number). Ubuntu LTS is a freaking disaster for the enterprise if you actually want stability. I know some folks that wanted to go with Gentoo. Yeah, I feel bad for them in a big way.

Anyway nice dodge on your position about how permissive open source is only for greedy corps who want to steal your code.

Linux and OSX hardly even compete against each other (ignoring Android for the moment). Linux on the desktop has been DOA for the last decade and no more relevant than BSD on the desktop so it's not surprising that iOS webstats outrank linux. But hey, maybe 2011 will be the year of the Linux on the Desktop.

you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop. try looking around at the usage in other countries rather than your own backyard also helps.
and check out distrowatch. they keep up with page stats and i don't see bsd at the top of the list. must be all those dumb shmuck linux users.
go sell your lack of sense someplace else....i ain't buying.
post #67 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And, yet, with only 5% market share, Apple has 35% of the entire industry's profits. Which would you rather have- market share or profits?

As an Apple shareholder I like that they have the highest margins in the industry. I use my stock proceeds to buy Android-based devices.

See also:

Android gaining on Apple iOS in mobile web market share
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ket_share.html


Android outsells iPhone (again), sales up 886% globally
Apple down during the same period from a high of 34% to 23%:
http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/0...-886-globally/
post #68 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

It is true that Flash is not dead yet. But accelerated 3D to Flash is a waste of time and will eat up even more resources. 10.1 GPU decoding is rubbish, it only applies to huge-bandwidth gobbling HD streams.

By what magic method does HTML5 do 3D without similar resource usage?

See also:

6 reasons why the "HTML5 vs. Flash" debate is idiotic
http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-...te-is-idiotic/
post #69 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop. try looking around at the usage in other countries rather than your own backyard also helps.
and check out distrowatch. they keep up with page stats and i don't see bsd at the top of the list. must be all those dumb shmuck linux users.
go sell your lack of sense someplace else....i ain't buying.

It's funny how Mac users, who for years rightfully decried all the anti-Mac FUD coming from the Windows world, are now so often engaging in the same tactics against Linux.

Linux has perhaps half as many users as Mac OS has been able to garner in its two decades of trying. And this is while the computer revolution across the developing world is still so very nascent.

Once outside of Americaland, with its luxury SUVs, designer jeans, and $2,000 computers, the opportunities look much more diverse than some imagine....
post #70 of 97
Quote:
For years Linux has been the platform of choice in the film industry. The first major film produced on Linux servers was 1997's Titanic. Since then major studios including Dreamworks Animation, Pixar and Industrial Light & Magic have migrated to Linux. According to the Linux Movies Group, more than 95% of the servers and desktops at large animation and visual effects companies use Linux..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#M...are_and_uptake

Quote:
Pixar
...
Key people
...
Steve Jobs, former CEO of Pixar Animation Studios and member of the Board of Directors at The Walt Disney Company

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar
post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

As a buyer, I want to have a good ecosystem. So I choose market share. In this regard, the trends are good for Android.

As a seller, I want to get big profits any way I possibly can. Apple is very good at that. And make no mistake, Apple wants bigtime market share in order to keep up its ecosystem in order to keep up its profits.

Pretty foolish statement - the discussion was about APPLE. Last time I checked, Apple is a seller. Apple is achieving more profits than anyone else in spite of their 'low' market share.

No one cares if YOU are not bright enough to choose the best product but would rather be a sheep. It just doesn't matter to anyone.
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post #72 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

you are sorely lacking in sense if you think linux is no more relevant than bsd on the desktop.

Neither matter as a desktop OS so both are equally relevant. As in not really relevant at all despite all of Shuttleworth's money. 0.85 share? Wow...linux is really relevant as a desktop OS.

The fact that BSD is like 0.0085 share doesn't really make that much difference.
post #73 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Neither matter as a desktop OS so both are equally relevant. As in not really relevant at all despite all of Shuttleworth's money. 0.85 share? Wow...linux is really relevant as a desktop OS.

The fact that BSD is like 0.0085 share doesn't really make that much difference.

i know, so few use linux distro's as desktops that you just can't find an app to use. and there must be what...5 or 10 developers tops?
despite all of shuttleworth's money? the guy is using his own money to do something he loves and believes in and he ain't charging you or anyone else a dime. i can't believe you are so pathetic that shuttleworth gets on your nerves. well, yes i can believe it.
post #74 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

It's funny how Mac users, who for years rightfully decried all the anti-Mac FUD coming from the Windows world, are now so often engaging in the same tactics against Linux.

I'm a mac, iOS, windows, android, bsd (rarely) user. Linux sucks as a desktop OS and has for the two and a half decades I've been using it. I actually still have in my basement my old Dell Dimension Pentium 90 and slackware 2.1 and Debian 0.91 beta on it circa 1994. Somewhere around here I have an old Walnut Creek CD with FreeBSD on it.

Distrowatch back then was whatever distros were shipping on InfoMagic CDs.

Every major desktop deployment to date has been an epic failure. Munich is the poster child for Linux desktop deployment fail train.

Quote:
Linux has perhaps half as many users as Mac OS has been able to garner in its two decades of trying.

Really? So you're saying that Linux has about 2.5% desktop market share but 66% of Linux users don't browse the web (0.85% using linux to browse as reported by netapp)?

Quote:
And this is while the computer revolution across the developing world is still so very nascent.

After nearly four decades of modern computing (starting arbitrarily with Englebart's demo in '68) I think we can finally declare that its no longer a revolution. 80% penetration in urban China (where most folks live) and 10%+ in rural China.

And those sales are not predominantly Red Flag Linux.

Quote:
Once outside of Americaland, with its luxury SUVs, designer jeans, and $2,000 computers, the opportunities look much more diverse than some imagine....

For Microsoft maybe. Every time that folks have said that desktop Linux is going to explode because of Red Flag, Munich, Dell, IBM, OLPC, etc every time it's turned into a fail train and an opportunity for MS to step in.

Apple users shrug. Apple caters to those luxury SUV, designer jeans, $2000 computer users and builds a best in class unix desktop operating system.

One that doesn't suck.
post #75 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i know, so few use linux distro's as desktops that you just can't find an app to use. and there must be what...5 or 10 developers tops?

5-10 major developers sound about right...IBM, Oracle (heh), Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Nokia...ah...lemme think for four more.

Quote:
despite all of shuttleworth's money? the guy is using his own money to do something he loves and believes in and he ain't charging you or anyone else a dime. i can't believe you are so pathetic that shuttleworth gets on your nerves. well, yes i can believe it.

Shuttleworth doesn't get on my nerves, the exact opposite. Dude actually cares about usability. Alas, Shuttleworth is no Steve Jobs. I dunno if he really know what usability is. Menacing Meerrat is going to be Social? Really Mark? Mkay.

Most open source devs gives a Rancid Rat's ass about usability by normal people and herding open source devs is infinitely harder than herding Capering Cats. The corporate developers supporting Linux (as seen in that list above) are mostly doing server work. Not desktop.

I guess I should actually try Meandering Meekcat beta but I'm sure not looking forward to another Ubuntu upgrade that invariably borks my sound, my xconfigs or something other minor like that on my test box.

So yes, despite Mark's money desktop linux still sucks and that's just sad. i wish it were different but honestly since OS X 10.3 I don't really care anymore. Frankly the ONLY reason I open a shell these days is because DDMS requires me to (WTF?) so I can see the logs and take screen caps from Android.
post #76 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

I'm a mac, iOS, windows, android, bsd (rarely) user. Linux sucks as a desktop OS and has for the two and a half decades I've been using it. I actually still have in my basement my old Dell Dimension Pentium 90 and slackware 2.1 and Debian 0.91 beta on it circa 1994. Somewhere around here I have an old Walnut Creek CD with FreeBSD on it.

Distrowatch back then was whatever distros were shipping on InfoMagic CDs.

Every major desktop deployment to date has been an epic failure. Munich is the poster child for Linux desktop deployment fail train.



Really? So you're saying that Linux has about 2.5% desktop market share but 66% of Linux users don't browse the web (0.85% using linux to browse as reported by netapp)?



After nearly four decades of modern computing (starting arbitrarily with Englebart's demo in '68) I think we can finally declare that its no longer a revolution. 80% penetration in urban China (where most folks live) and 10%+ in rural China.

And those sales are not predominantly Red Flag Linux.



For Microsoft maybe. Every time that folks have said that desktop Linux is going to explode because of Red Flag, Munich, Dell, IBM, OLPC, etc every time it's turned into a fail train and an opportunity for MS to step in.

Apple users shrug. Apple caters to those luxury SUV, designer jeans, $2000 computer users and builds a best in class unix desktop operating system.

One that doesn't suck.

ubuntu 10.04 does not 'suck'. it is the best linux distro desktop i have ever used and i am still amazed at how good it is. and it didn't cost me 3000 dollars.
post #77 of 97
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post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

5-10 major developers sound about right...IBM, Oracle (heh), Novell, Red Hat, Canonical, Nokia...ah...lemme think for four more.



Shuttleworth doesn't get on my nerves, the exact opposite. Dude actually cares about usability. Alas, Shuttleworth is no Steve Jobs. I dunno if he really know what usability is. Menacing Meerrat is going to be Social? Really Mark? Mkay.

Most open source devs gives a Rancid Rat's ass about usability by normal people and herding open source devs is infinitely harder than herding Capering Cats. The corporate developers supporting Linux (as seen in that list above) are mostly doing server work. Not desktop.

I guess I should actually try Meandering Meekcat beta but I'm sure not looking forward to another Ubuntu upgrade that invariably borks my sound, my xconfigs or something other minor like that on my test box.

So yes, despite Mark's money desktop linux still sucks and that's just sad. i wish it were different but honestly since OS X 10.3 I don't really care anymore. Frankly the ONLY reason I open a shell these days is because DDMS requires me to (WTF?) so I can see the logs and take screen caps from Android.

'despite marks money' ? i am really baffled at your beef with 'marks money'. keep giving yours to steve. he sure isn't spending it for anyone else's benefit....
post #79 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

ubuntu 10.04 does not 'suck'. it is the best linux distro desktop i have ever used and i am still amazed at how good it is. and it didn't cost me 3000 dollars.

Yah...10.04 didn't suck...unless you wanted audio that wasn't borked again in that continuing pulseaudio fiasco, updgrades that didn't hose your system and display drivers that weren't borked or somehow borked your configs.

Seriously...audio? How hard is it to get audio working for everybody in a desktop OS? Audio has been a source of issues since Heron and it was STILL borked for some people in Lucid. If all you want to do is run Skype and audio doesn't work without mucking around then it's the definition of "suck". And they put it in Heron...the LTS...which guaranteed pulseaudio suckage until Lucid two years later (if you were on the LTS train) where it was still borked but a lot less borked.

Glad it worked for you. Lucid upgrade worked (as far as I know...don't use it for much) but both Karmic and Jaunty had issues and that sucked.

http://www.ubuntututorials.info/linu...-about-it.html

The REALLY amusing part? The comment that every session so far has had 5 minutes technical issues setting up. By a bunch of linux geeks. No presentation until 5:33. But "Hey comppiz is cool!" (around 5:25)

This is at least the second year Brian has given this talk and as near as I can remember it didn't change much. The litany year after year is the same for desktop linux: audio sucks, display drivers suck, multi-monitor suck, wifi drivers suck, xorg sucks, package managers suck...
post #80 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

By what magic method does HTML5 do 3D without similar resource usage?

Which is kinda my point. Where have we seen 3D delivered through the browser, VRML, Flash or otherwise, that has really been useful? Now where have we seen 3D delivered through the browser, on Android or other mobile systems, where it is better than an application?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

6 reasons why the "HTML5 vs. Flash" debate is idiotic
http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-...te-is-idiotic/

Firstly, when we talk about HTML5, we are talking about HTML5 being the standard on the horizon, while in the meantime we have current implementations of HTML, CSS and Javascript.

The question boils down to where to use Flash, and where not to. In the desktop world, I do not see Flash websites that really justify the interactivity and functionality of using Flash. In terms of animation, they're mainly annoying nowadays and do not enhance user experience, in most cases, IMO.

In the mobile world, the use of Flash becomes much harder to justify. You don't need things flying around all over the place to quickly access your content, unless of course that is something like a game which is best delivered as a dedicated mobile application.

And I have made Flash websites in the past, and HTML4 or less + CSS + Javascript is annoying, but at least much more available to a wider audience.

If you told me every single shipping Android and Blackberry and WindowsMobile smartphone starting from *today* will come with functional and smoothly operating Flash built-in, then I would say Flash on mobile has a future. But that is not the case, unfortunately.

My beef is partly Flash but partly, where is the Flash implementation on non-Apple mobile hardware?
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