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iOS 4.1 on iPhone 3G shows marked improvement in speed test - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by injected View Post

Having used iOS 4.1 a few days on my 3G, I can safely say that it is much, much better than 4.0. The phone is entirely usable again.

But is it as responsive as 3.1.3 is/was?
post #42 of 71
All due respect to those who say the slowness has only affected "some" 3G users, but I have yet to find one that was not slow as a pig. I know at least 10 people with 3Gs and all of them have either downgraded or suffered the consequences of iOS 4. One guy never upgraded and I am forced to admit he was wise even though it pains me.

Looking forward to Wednesday and the installation of 4.1
post #43 of 71
Just buy a new phone. Seriously.

This business of trying to install modern software on a 2 year old phone has to stop.

Either you want Apple to make new stuff as fast as possible, or you want your old stuff to stay relevant. Which is it?

Apple never should have pushed out the buggy update to users, but then again anyone who updated from 2.0 to 3.0 should have known what it would be like. I did.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Just buy a new phone. Seriously.

This business of trying to install modern software on a 2 year old phone has to stop.

Either you want Apple to make new stuff as fast as possible, or you want your old stuff to stay relevant. Which is it?

Apple never should have pushed out the buggy update to users, but then again anyone who updated from 2.0 to 3.0 should have known what it would be like. I did.

You realize that AT&T and Apple were still selling NEW 3G's as recently as May/June - right? Those people are locked in for another 12 months at least and would have to pay > $400 to "just buy a new phone".
Also many people, including myself, did get new phones but want to use our old 3G's like an iPod Touch now or as a development mule.

4.1 is a huge improvement of 4.0 on the 3G. Still not as fast as 3.x, or 2.x for that matter, but makes it usable again.
post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The 3G will always come up short against the 4G as the 4G has a very good antenna. Well as long as you don!"'t short it out. I'm not sure why people still are under the influence of all the negative press around the 4G. Even after a self done "demo" like yours you still seem to think the 4G has a lesser antenna system. I don't get it.


Dave

You misconstrue my posting. I acknowledge the 4g has a better antenna than my old 3g. All I was saying was that it seemed that after I upgraded to 4.0 the reception on my 3g got worse and I was hoping (albeit knowing it wont) that the software upgrade improves the 3g reception so I do not have to buy another phone and thereby get locked into another 2 year contract.
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

This business of trying to install modern software on a 2 year old phone has to stop.

That is an absurd statement.
post #47 of 71
I just hope they finally fix the dismal A2DP implementation.
post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by delete View Post

But is it as responsive as 3.1.3 is/was?

About as fast as 3.1.3 on an iPod touch (1st gen), which I think has pretty much the same hardware. I launched several apps, and visited a few web sites. They were neck and neck, but somehow, the 3.1.3 iPod touch seems a little more responsive.

This might have something to do with a seemingly slightly different timing model in Core Animation, so not really a bug, but a feature (?).
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

4.1 appears to be marginally faster across the board, but the 3G iPhones that were affected (not all were having this problem) are seeing huge gains. So it appears there is some code refining and a big fix for whatever was ailing some 3G iPhones.

I hope so, because I want my phone back. Right now it is slooooooooooow.
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by delete View Post

Like people are saying on Lifehacker and Gizmodo, there needs to be a test between 4.1 and 3.1.3. 4.0 is so bad that anything is going to look better while 3.1.3 is the benchmark for the phone.

At one level, you are right, but at another, as long as it is noticeably faster, such that one can type at a normal speed, and not have Safari "sit there", or to be able to play Archetype would be a step in the right direction.
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by azentropy View Post

You realize that AT&T and Apple were still selling NEW 3G's as recently as May/June - right? Those people are locked in for another 12 months at least and would have to pay > $400 to "just buy a new phone".
Also many people, including myself, did get new phones but want to use our old 3G's like an iPod Touch now or as a development mule.

4.1 is a huge improvement of 4.0 on the 3G. Still not as fast as 3.x, or 2.x for that matter, but makes it usable again.

You said it exactly right. This was not a "2 year old phone" in the sense of being mothballed. It had only been discontinued a couple of months.

Besides, when Apple said the software would run on the 3G, with certain functions disabled, the clear implication of that statement is that everything else would be fine. This is why they said it will not run on the 2G at all.

A flippant reply of "buy a new phone" is unacceptable.
post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

You said it exactly right. This was not a "2 year old phone" in the sense of being mothballed. It had only been discontinued a couple of months.

Besides, when Apple said the software would run on the 3G, with certain functions disabled, the clear implication of that statement is that everything else would be fine. This is why they said it will not run on the 2G at all.

A flippant reply of "buy a new phone" is unacceptable.

Amen.
post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

I wonder what it is that makes some 3G iPhones different from others. Mine was affected and after suffering from an almost unusable phone for a few weeks, I downgraded it. The added features in iOS4 were just not enough to put up with the constant lag.

I wondered that too, as every person I know with a 3G after updating to 4 some apps took over 10 seconds to launch.

Its hard to believe -no one- at apple knew of this. What hey didn't test that. suuuure.

Sure makes one want to upgrade to an iPhone4 in a hurry though...
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post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Its hard to believe -no one- at apple knew of this. What hey didn't test that. suuuure.
Sure makes one want to upgrade to an iPhone4 in a hurry though…

Gotta love how the trolls' brain works. Instead of Apple just not making iOS 4 for the 3G, and changing the upgrade cycle to 2 years, they think Apple would spend the time, money and effort to make an OS that will purposely hinder the old device, thus making Apple look worse than not offering an update at all, and potentially causing a costly class action lawsuit after this willful impairment is discovered. Where the hell do these people spawn from?
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post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gotta love how the trolls' brain works. Instead of Apple just not making iOS 4 for the 3G, and changing the upgrade cycle to 2 years, they think Apple would spend the time, money and effort to make an OS that will purposely hinder the old device, thus making Apple look worse than not offering an update at all, and potentially causing a costly class action lawsuit after this willful impairment is discovered. Where the hell do these people spawn from?

It's the truth though, even if you don't like it. Yelling and shrieking TROOOOLLLL!!! doesn't make it any better. Sorry.

I'm simply not stupid enough to believe that no one, at apple saw that this update slowed a recent model phone to pretty much unusable. If they want to exclude a phone from 2 years ago, that's fine, but don't pretend it's simply a 'few features disabled'. It feels like almost the whole damn phone is disabled.

Once again, it appears some really get upset if an apple user DARES criticize apple. One could get drawn and quartered for that I guess. eh?
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post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

It's the truth though, even if you don't like it. Yelling and shrieking TROOOOLLLL!!! doesn't make it any better. Sorry.

I'm simply not stupid enough to believe that no one, at apple saw that this update slowed a recent model phone to pretty much unusable. If they want to exclude a phone from 2 years ago, that's fine, but don't pretend it's simply a 'few features disabled'. It feels like almost the whole damn phone is disabled.

Once again, it appears some really get upset if an apple user DARES criticize apple. One could get drawn and quartered for that I guess. eh?

1) I never yell or sheik.

2) Disagreeing is not defined as putting on a tinfoil hat and claiming a corporate conspiracy to willfully hobble iPhone 3Gs to force people to buy iPhone 4s.

3) Anyone that did the update and suffered issues should have a) downgraded if they could, b) had Apple give them a new phone that worked appropriately, but your yelling and shrieking on an internet forum that Apple has some diabolical plan to damage your iPhone 3G instead of simply not supporting it all is complete BS and fits more with a Pixar movie than with a real life corporate game plan. therefore you are either trolling or you are so fraked in the head you dont realize how insane your comment sounds, so calling you a troll was the nicer of the comments I could have chosen. Youre welcome!
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post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I never yell or sheik.

2) Disagreeing is not defined as putting on a tinfoil hat and claiming a corporate conspiracy to willfully hobble iPhone 3Gs to force people to buy iPhone 4s.

3) Anyone that did the update and suffered issues should have a) downgraded if they could, b) had Apple give them a new phone that worked appropriately, but your yelling and shrieking on an internet forum that Apple has some diabolical plan to damage your iPhone 3G instead of simply not supporting it all is complete BS and fits more with a Pixar movie than with a real life corporate game plan. therefore you are either trolling or you are so fraked in the head you dont realize how insane your comment sounds, so calling you a troll was the nicer of the comments I could have chosen. Youre welcome!

1) thinking that planned obsolescence is putting on a tinfoil hat likely means you live under a rock.

2) If you do live under a rock, and think it couldn't possibly be true, there's even a wiki for your information... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

3) I couldn't care less how many names you have for me. You seem to love calling anyone a troll here who dares suggest anything other than absolute love for apple. Track record, it isn't the first time, you called me a troll, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Have a nice day.
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post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

1) thinking that planned obsolescence is putting on a tinfoil hat likely means you live under a rock.

2) If you do live under a rock, and think it couldn't possibly be true, there's even a wiki for your information... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

So now you are changing your argument. Note that is a sign of trolling. First you imply that Apple has deliberately and maliciously hindered consumers ability to use the iPhone 3G so they will be forced to buy the iPhone 4, now you are taking my argument that they could have simply not updated it at all, thus a planned obsolescence.

Quote:
3) I couldn't care less how many names you have for me. You seem to love calling anyone a troll here who dares suggest anything other than absolute love for apple. Track record, it isn't the first time, you called me a troll, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

How about replacing your tinfoil hat with a thinking cap. Using some critical thinking and at least trying to be objective in your comments. The very fact that you think posters who are continually post pro and con comments are only posting absolute love for apple is proof that you fall under one or more of the two categories Ive previously mentioned.
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post #59 of 71
Of course Apple wants everyone with a 3G to upgrade to the 4, that's not a revelation. But the accusation of some devious plot for planned obsolescence is just a accusation with no firm support.

Especially in light of the fact that Apple had the option of not including the 3G in the iOS update from the beginning.

As far as the quality of Apple's testing iOS 4 on the 3G. Unless you work at Apple there is no way to know what happened.

Did Microsoft spend years and hundreds of millions in personal capital for Vista to be so poorly received? Didn't they test it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

thinking that planned obsolescence is putting on a tinfoil hat likely means you live under a rock.
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So now you are changing your argument. Note that is a sign of trolling. First you imply that Apple has deliberately and maliciously hindered consumers ability to use the iPhone 3G so they will be forced to buy the iPhone 4, now you are taking my argument that they could have simply not updated it at all, thus a planned obsolescence.


How about replacing your tinfoil hat with a thinking cap. Using some critical thinking and at least trying to be objective in your comments. The very fact that you think posters who are continually post pro and con comments are only posting absolute love for apple is proof that you fall under one or more of the two categories Ive previously mentioned.

bored today?

There is no change in argument whatsoever. I have no idea -what- Apple plans, how could I... only that, 1) there's no way no one at Apple could have not known this, since it seems to affect the vast majority of 3G phones, and having a phone that DID work very well, suddenly perform so badly as to be nearly useless at times, I have to wonder, what is going on. And THIS, makes one a troll? Someone needs to chill...

I don't care what you like to categorize people under, As a devoted apple user, I have opinions both good and bad on things that happen with Apple and their products.

Deal with it.
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post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Of course Apple wants everyone with a 3G to upgrade to the 4, that's not a revelation. But the accusation of some devious plot for planned obsolescence is just a accusation with no firm support.

Especially in light of the fact that Apple had the option of not including the 3G in the iOS update from the beginning.

As far as the quality of Apple's testing iOS 4 on the 3G. Unless you work at Apple there is no way to know what happened.

Did Microsoft spend years and hundreds of millions in personal capital for Vista to be so poorly received? Didn't they test it?

of course I have no support, no facts, anything. I think that's rather obvious. Only frustration, and wondering what the hell is going on. So I made a snide remark about it, and feel justified since it's a major piss off, and everyone gets their panties in a bunch.
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post #62 of 71
The theory of planned obsolescence isn't impossible, but it isn't very likely the reality of what happened.

If iOS 4.1 really does prove a significant improvement. Its more likely Apple neglected to properly test and optimize the update for the 3G. Which is still sloppy and below Apple's stated high standards for user satisfaction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

of course I have no support, no facts, anything. I think that's rather obvious. Only frustration, and wondering what the hell is going on. So I made a snide remark about it, and feel justified since it's a major piss off, and everyone gets their panties in a bunch.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The theory of planned obsolescence isn't impossible, but it isn't very likely the reality of what happened.

If iOS 4.1 really does prove a significant improvement. Its more likely Apple neglected to properly test and optimize the update for the 3G. Which is still sloppy and below Apple's stated high standards for user satisfaction.

you're probably right, but after you've wanted to throw the thing at a wall after it freezing constantly, daily for a while, you'll come up with a few theories yourself.


add to that the frustration of not being able to get an iphone 4 ANYWHERE, and the word is, this isn't changing soon, as the apple stores and carriers get just a trickle every couple days and I don't hae the ime to spend lining up.
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post #64 of 71
I'm in the same boat with you. I have a 3G that I bought the day the 3G first launched. I'm having all the freezing issues also. I hope and pray this upgrade works.

I'm out of contract but I've decided not to bother with the iPhone 4 yet. I'm waiting for the white one. I also plan to wait for January and see if Verizon really does become an option. i will see what both Verizon and AT&T are willing to offer me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

you're probably right, but after you've wanted to throw the thing at a wall after it freezing constantly, daily for a while, you'll come up with a few theories yourself.


add to that the frustration of not being able to get an iphone 4 ANYWHERE, and the word is, this isn't changing soon, as the apple stores and carriers get just a trickle every couple days and I don't hae the ime to spend lining up.
post #65 of 71
Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong. It certainly is the case here. Anyone who has worked on and shipped any serious piece of software should be able to tell you that this sort of mistake can and does happen. Testing can attempt to catch these problems, but doesn't guarantee it. Apple's testing emphasis was undoubtably the iPhone4 since it was new hardware, but they will also have had 3Gs and 3GSs in their testing matrix... but that doesn't guarantee that they would have seen the slow-down problems. Without knowing exactly what the problem(s) are, it is impossible to say how it was possible that their testing didn't catch the issue. It may also have manifested late in testing and not shown up as very bad so they decided to ship it with a plan to figure it out and fix it later... only it turned out to be much worse in the wild. And don't make the mistake of belittling them over it because it can and does happen to all developers. Problems in a company's development process show up in how often it happens, and how they deal with it when it does. Apple's track record in both areas is not perfect, but is generally pretty good.

Having a larger user base on the new OS is a good thing, the last thing they would want to do is sabotage it. A poor user experience is likely to drive users away from the platform, which is something they would not want to risk.

As for the expectation that successive OS releases must be slower, this is patently false. MacOSX in almost every version has actually gotten faster in most ways on the same hardware and, in particular, Leopard->SnowLeopard was notably a performance-oriented release. iOS3 is based on Leopard, and iOS4 is based on SnowLeopard. There are always trade-offs made for features vs performance, but many features can and are implement as zero cost if the application isn't actively using them -- they just consume a (small) amount of Flash space. Some of the iOS4 features clearly carry a performance and memory cost, but these should be balanced by other system optimizations. Apple doesn't want its iPhone4 to feel slower, it wants it to feel as fast as possible... and that will help the 3G and 3GS as well since they are fundamentally the same architecture and processor core, just with different clock rates and available memory. The problem on the 3G was very clearly a problem (i.e. a bug), as opposed to a set of design decisions made to cripple the older phones.
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post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm in the same boat with you. I have a 3G that I bought the day the 3G first launched. I'm having all the freezing issues also. I hope and pray this upgrade works.

I'm out of contract but I've decided not to bother with the iPhone 4 yet. I'm waiting for the white one. I also plan to wait for January and see if Verizon really does become an option. i will see what both Verizon and AT&T are willing to offer me.

same here for my two iPhone 3g's
competition will help, i wont switch to verizon, i like ATT, but i'm looking for more value for my next
2years.
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post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong. It certainly is the case here. Anyone who has worked on and shipped any serious piece of software should be able to tell you that this sort of mistake can and does happen. Testing can attempt to catch these problems, but doesn't guarantee it. Apple's testing emphasis was undoubtably the iPhone4 since it was new hardware, but they will also have had 3Gs and 3GSs in their testing matrix... but that doesn't guarantee that they would have seen the slow-down problems. Without knowing exactly what the problem(s) are, it is impossible to say how it was possible that their testing didn't catch the issue. It may also have manifested late in testing and not shown up as very bad so they decided to ship it with a plan to figure it out and fix it later... only it turned out to be much worse in the wild. And don't make the mistake of belittling them over it because it can and does happen to all developers. Problems in a company's development process show up in how often it happens, and how they deal with it when it does. Apple's track record in both areas is not perfect, but is generally pretty good.

Having a larger user base on the new OS is a good thing, the last thing they would want to do is sabotage it. A poor user experience is likely to drive users away from the platform, which is something they would not want to risk.

As for the expectation that successive OS releases must be slower, this is patently false. MacOSX in almost every version has actually gotten faster in most ways on the same hardware and, in particular, Leopard->SnowLeopard was notably a performance-oriented release. iOS3 is based on Leopard, and iOS4 is based on SnowLeopard. There are always trade-offs made for features vs performance, but many features can and are implement as zero cost if the application isn't actively using them -- they just consume a (small) amount of Flash space. Some of the iOS4 features clearly carry a performance and memory cost, but these should be balanced by other system optimizations. Apple doesn't want its iPhone4 to feel slower, it wants it to feel as fast as possible... and that will help the 3G and 3GS as well since they are fundamentally the same architecture and processor core, just with different clock rates and available memory. The problem on the 3G was very clearly a problem (i.e. a bug), as opposed to a set of design decisions made to cripple the older phones.

That's a nice lengthy explanation, however, all one has to do, is use 3G for 1 minute to see it. Clear as day. No "testing matixes" needed.
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post #68 of 71
Credentials: PhD in Engineering
Just upgraded to 4.1 from my recently downgraded (to 3.1.3) phone. My phone on 3.1.3 was very fast (latency times < 2 s to boot anything and give me control) After sampling the latency on several functions ~5x, hardbooting a few times, and sampling 3 more, I averaged out the latency times for the following functions, and here are the results:
About 9s for safari to boot and give me control. About 6s for the text messaging app. Mail is quick (<2s). About 8s for the camera function. About 9s for the maps app. Not the most thorough test, but indicative of the function of my phone.
Time to downgrade again....
post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

That's a nice lengthy explanation, however, all one has to do, is use 3G for 1 minute to see it. Clear as day. No "testing matixes" needed.

Sadly its not that universal. If you reset your phone and installed iOS4 then the problem isn't apparently. If Apple's QA department got a new batch of phones (including 3Gs) and started testing from there, they wouldn't have seen this problem. This sort of "start from a blank slate" approach is actually quite common for QA departments. Since this was a generation-before-last problem, it could be that everyone's personal phones were already 3GSs or 4s and thus nobody saw the problem. Or they had a series of alphas and betas on their phones, and had to reset them every time. This is just speculation, but my experience lets me easily see a situation where this problem simply didn't show up in testing.
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post #70 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie_engineer View Post

Credentials: PhD in Engineering
Just upgraded to 4.1 from my recently downgraded (to 3.1.3) phone. My phone on 3.1.3 was very fast (latency times < 2 s to boot anything and give me control) After sampling the latency on several functions ~5x, hardbooting a few times, and sampling 3 more, I averaged out the latency times for the following functions, and here are the results:
About 9s for safari to boot and give me control. About 6s for the text messaging app. Mail is quick (<2s). About 8s for the camera function. About 9s for the maps app. Not the most thorough test, but indicative of the function of my phone.
Time to downgrade again....

I did a straight install and haven't rebooted since.

Safari boot & control is about 3s. SMS is about 3s. Mail is about 2s. Camera is about 4s. Taking a call is really smooth. I do notice that if I go through a series of apps in quick succession the ones after the first boot a little slower. This suggests to me that it might be a memory pressure issue, so the difference between our phones could be how complex the mail accounts are (although mine are pretty complex), how much you have push notifications turned on, webpages you leave open, and other things which impact the global memory state of the phone.

Its been a while since I used 3.x on the phone, but I don't remember it being notably faster before.
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post #71 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Programmer View Post

Sadly its not that universal. If you reset your phone and installed iOS4 then the problem isn't apparently. If Apple's QA department got a new batch of phones (including 3Gs) and started testing from there, they wouldn't have seen this problem. This sort of "start from a blank slate" approach is actually quite common for QA departments. Since this was a generation-before-last problem, it could be that everyone's personal phones were already 3GSs or 4s and thus nobody saw the problem. Or they had a series of alphas and betas on their phones, and had to reset them every time. This is just speculation, but my experience lets me easily see a situation where this problem simply didn't show up in testing.

Apple has issues with their testing methods, period. They need to revamp their testing program. The above doesn't explain their iPhone 4 antenna issue and proximity sensor problem, both issues on a brand new design, not a previous iPhone model.
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