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Android gaining on Apple iOS in mobile web market share - Page 7

post #241 of 349
9/5/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Yah, but it's kinda a pain in the rear. Do you know how many different bleeding configs I need to test? It's not just hitting a few buttons, it's making sure I didn't use something out of 2.2 when I still want to support 1.6. Streak at 1.6...what was Dell thinking?

It happens all the time.

I have a Pre Plus on Verizon, running WebOS 1.4.1, and I'm waiting on them to release 1.4.5 for the Pre (they have for the Pixi), as there new apps I can't install based on the OS version.

My first gen iPod Touch is stuck at 3.1.3, and from what I've read, 4.0 runs like ass on 3g iPhones, and not all features are supported. You either buy new HW, or continue using what you've got.

While the Streak should be coming with the latest version, it will be getting 2.1 soon after launch.

Fragmentation will happen, regardless of platform; Android, iOS, PC, Mac, etc...
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post #242 of 349
9/5/10 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

It happens all the time.

I have a Pre Plus on Verizon, running WebOS 1.4.1, and I'm waiting on them to release 1.4.5 for the Pre (they have for the Pixi), as there new apps I can't install based on the OS version.

My first gen iPod Touch is stuck at 3.1.3, and from what I've read, 4.0 runs like ass on 3g iPhones, and not all features are supported. You either buy new HW, or continue using what you've got.

The 3G slowdown will be fixed in the 4.1 update coming i 3 days, according to all reports. The 1. generation iPhones and Touch'es are stuck on iOS 3, but that's to be expected on 3 year old hardware.
Not, howevever, on 1 year old hardware...
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post #243 of 349
9/5/10 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

I read some of what the trolls write just to see what an absolute worst case scenario looks like for Apple and it's products

That doesn't strike me as a very good method of arriving at the facts of the matter.
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post #244 of 349
9/5/10 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


I think that now the % of people using 4.0 is > 90% because 1 month after the release it was 50%.


Quite a hunch. Got any facts beyond 50%?
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post #245 of 349
9/5/10 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

I disagree. I think it is easier to grow if you already have a large installed base of rabid fans who buy new product from you every time you add a feature.

heehee. This is another premise of yours! (this word is really going to keep coming back to bite you on the butt). What a load of FUD! I just upgrade my two-year old second gen iPod touch the moment Apple releases a new version of iOS. I don't have an iPhone, but I will soon inherit a first gen iPhone, much as I might drool over the iPhone 4. Do all new Android devices even leave the stores with the latest version of Android?

Sent from my six-year old (seven?) PowerMac G5 happily tooling along on Leopard 24 hours per day, seven days per week.
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post #246 of 349
9/5/10 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

Android's days are numbered as the iPhone exclusivity with AT&T draws to a close. Once Americans can choose a carrier they like, iOS will crush Android.

Probably not. Android may populate the lower price spot. Price is important for many and unless Apple drops prices and lowers margins, Android is a possible success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

It will be some time before Android is really competitive. Apple's developer SDKs and tools are much better then Googles. Apple has a significant advantage when it comes to mobile app development. It is difficult to write anything beyond simple apps that wrap around a web page (like Facebook) or OpenGL based games on an Android device. Android web surfing is probably up because that (and Google Maps which is better then on the iPhone) is all you can do well on an Android phone. iPhone users probably use applications in place of web browsing for many tasks. Android will probably be very popular among people who just want to surf the web, but may never gain traction among users who want to run apps. I think the iPhone actually lives up to the hype and Android falls short when you actually try to use their phone to run applications. As others have said, a lot of people chose an Android device on Verizon. Those same people carry an iPod touch to run applications. There is a significant conversion rate (I don't have the link handy) for Android to iPhone users. There is virtually no defection from the iPhone. Market share doesn't tell the whole story. I still find it incredible how many professionals are using OS X. These are the people really propelling the economy. Something just doesn't feel right about comparing a NetBook to a MacBook Pro. You can of course slant statistics to any point you want to prove, but I care more about use-share and dollar-share then market-share. I think that Microsoft would trade places with Apple right now if they could.

I think google should get credit for achieving this web use statistic though. It is really pretty impressive, but to be fair to Apple it is the only thing they have been focusing on. They certainly have not been focusing on Apps. For various reasons I don't think Apple has wanted to make a less expensive iPhone with more limited capabilities to compete with Android. If Android continues to increase their market share after Apple switches to Verizon, maybe they will.

Very astute. Web statistics are losing their validity to use for OS use statistics.

Android seems to be enough if you want web access and a few chosen apps, something like a feature-phone-+. iOS is your only valid choice if you want to have access to a wide range of decent quality apps. A feature-phone-+ is good enough for many, so there is a low-price-point spot for Android. It'll probably not be crushed soon.
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post #247 of 349
9/5/10 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post

heehee. This is another premise of yours!

Actually, it is not a premise, but instead, a conclusion.

I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to identify the necessary premises. And if it interests you, try to identify the necessary implications as well.
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post #248 of 349
9/5/10 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

iOS devices account for less than 6% of web browsing.

Yet again your confused, wrong , lying ... take your pick.

Opinions stated as fact without references are the same as "lying by omission", IMO.

According to "STATCOUNTER.com": ... iPhone = 19.63 % worldwide (#2) .... iPod touch = 8.95 % (#5) and Android = 6.51 % (6) .... Note: iOS devices (touch and iPhone) account for almost 30% worldwide as opposed to Android at 6.51%.

In North America it is as follows: .... iPhone = 28.25% (#1) .... iPod Touch = 16.46% (#3) .... Android = 13.73% (#4).
The timeframe for these figures is from August 2009 to August 2010.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_br...908-201008-bar

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #249 of 349
9/5/10 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

It is expected that Android will be used on a range of different phones in the future.

As of now, it is predominantly used on flagship models. But once it becomes the ubiquitous standard, expect to see it everywhere.

2 points. What is a low end smartphone, if not $99, which is the US price of a 3GS. So, if someone is looking for a "low end phone" then one could pick that.

Secondly, I can make all sorts of predictions also, and then make all sorts of scenarios about what will happen with my predictions. That does not make me right.

As of now, the "low end" argument is specious because there are no real price barriers to an iPhone vs an Android. If one can afford an Android, one can afford an iPhone.

Look, I love my iPhone, MBP, and I particularly love my new 27" quad core i7 iMac, but people have to realize that people (a lot of them probably) knowingly and consciously choose an Android phone, not because they cannot get an iPhone, or because and iPhone is too expensive, but rather because it is what they want.

Apple is not the be all and end all in smartphones, and some people choose otherwise.
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post #250 of 349
9/5/10 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

Are you saying that the once a year major update is a faster deployment pace than the Android OS?

That's only because you're not paying attention.

IOS is updated a lot more than once a year. Major versions? We're at 4.0 after 3 years. But many minor updates in between.

The difference, of course, is that iOS was good enough from the start that they didn't have to do major updates over and over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I call, you update weak because ALL manufactures have to deal with this. Android is updated more often than iOS.

That's BS. Only if you ignore all the x.x and x.x.x iOS updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Because you bought a crappy one. You are on record saying it is a good phone. But the reviews all say otherwise.

I am aware of no supercharger being available to upgrade a Hyundai, but then again, they are not designed that way. Same with economy-class phones. It has always been that way.

The good Android phones may be a different experience from the one you bought.

Bull. My daughter's phone was very highly rated and was manufactured by one of the top manufacturers. Not to mention that her experience is reflected over and over by the overwhelming majority of Android phone users. In fact, only a very tiny percentage DO have 2.2 available.
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post #251 of 349
9/5/10 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Apple has plenty of money to deploy workers wherever profits are available to be made.

They were not short staffed on OS X (if at all) for any reason other than that they chose to be so. They choose staffing levels based upon the potential profitability of various projects (just like Adobe). If you think that OS X is starved of talent, then the reason is that Apple chose to cut back on OS X engineers.

I don't think it is "profits", "costs", or "availability of talent" -- though those are factors when deciding whether to undertake a project.

Rather, I think Apple staffs [technical people] based on productivity. The biggest challenge is to balance staff size with productivity.

Often, increasing staff to accelerate output or meet a deadline, has just the opposite effect.

At IBM, we said: "Expediting... takes a little (or a lot) longer".


There have been lots of studies on "optimal team size"

Much of this boils down to "communication" as expressed in the communication formula-- the number of different communication paths (or interactions) within a group of a given size:

(N * (N-1))/2

Where N is the number of people in the group.

For example. we have a team of 5 people working on a project -- there are 10 possible communication (interaction) paths

(5 * (5-1))/2

Now, we want to expedite the project so we add 2 members to the team (assume the new members are all up to speed). Now there 21 possible communication (interaction) paths.

(7 * (7-1))/2


By increasing the team size by 40%, we have more than doubled the complexity of communication (interaction).

As the team grows, each member spends an increasing amount of his time "communicating" rather than "producing".

Soon, there will be more meetings called to "get everyone on the same page" and "up to speed".

Then, the final death rattle, when someone says: "let's have a pre-meeting, meeting-- so we can agree on a position to take to the full meeting".


Jef Bezos of Amazon is credited with defining the "Two-Pizza Team Rule".

"If a project team can eat more than two pizzas, it's too large."

http://www.learningapi.com/blog/archives/000079.html


In my experience, 5 is the optimal team size!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #252 of 349
9/5/10 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Jef Bezos of Amazon is credited with defining the "Two-Pizza Team Rule".

"If a project team can eat more than two pizzas, it's too large."

http://www.learningapi.com/blog/archives/000079.html


In my experience, 5 is the optimal team size!

.

Love the 2 pizza team rule. Always a fountain of information.
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post #253 of 349
9/5/10 at 3:59pm
I like Apple product too, but I can see the world without wearing my Apple filtered goggles. I cannot believe that you people really think Android is doomed because of a few little issues here and there ( many of which Apple has to deal with as well )

I have to ask:

1) Do you really think Android is doomed because a few older phones cannot be upgraded to the latest version?

2) Do you really think all Android phones are crap because a few manufactures chose to release them without the latest OS installed?

3) Do you really think the everyone will stop developing apps for the Android phones because they have to deal with different versions of the OS?

I just want to know if you guys really believe this is true or not.
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post #254 of 349
9/5/10 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

I like Apple product too, but I can see the world without wearing my Apple filtered goggles. I cannot believe that you people really think Android is doomed because of a few little issues here and there ( many of which Apple has to deal with as well )

I have to ask:

1) Do you really think Android is doomed because a few older phones cannot be upgraded to the latest version?

2) Do you really think all Android phones are crap because a few manufactures chose to release them without the latest OS installed?

3) Do you really think the everyone will stop developing apps for the Android phones because they have to deal with different versions of the OS?

I just want to know if you guys really believe this is true or not.

1) I didnt read a single comment about Android being doomed, only your comments implying that the iPhone is doomed because of Android.

2) The examples of Android phones that arent being updated in a timely manner or at all goes to the heart of the matter of Android not being an ideal mobile OS for the average person, which will give Apple, RiM and others a very real and profitable segment of the market.

3) Android will have a larger install base than iOS devices. Android will activate more devices per day than iOS devices. Android, by the virtue of being free and available to all, should have done this well over a year ago, after all it was bought by Google back in 2005(?), but you keep comparing a single companys HW (which the only way to get their mobile OS) to an OS that can be on any all HW one wishes. Why does that kind of comparison make sense to you?
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post #255 of 349
9/5/10 at 4:38pm
The single biggest thing holding back Android adoption by Mac users is that there's no Android app to sync your phone with your Mac. And no, I don't want Google knowing everything about my phone any time I want to update my Calendar.

RIM's had a hard time lately, but at least they have their own free desktop-based app for syncing Contacts, Calendar and iTunes with a Mac.

I'd switch to Blackberry long before I ever consider an Android device.
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post #256 of 349
9/5/10 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I didnt read a single comment about Android being doomed, only your comments implying that the iPhone is doomed because of Android.

2) The examples of Android phones that arent being updated in a timely manner or at all goes to the heart of the matter of Android not being an ideal mobile OS for the average person, which will give Apple, RiM and others a very real and profitable segment of the market.

3) Android will have a larger install base than iOS devices. Android will activate more devices per day than iOS devices. Android, by the virtue of being free and available to all, should have done this well over a year ago, after all it was bought by Google back in 2005(?), but you keep comparing a single companys HW (which the only way to get their mobile OS) to an OS that can be on any all HW one wishes. Why does that kind of comparison make sense to you?

1) I NEVER said or implied that the iPhone was doomed. I challenge you to prove other wise... In fact I think it is a very good phone. I simple know that many Android phones are equally as good and certianly as capable. If you read the various post there were infact several people who claimed that Android was doomed.

2) When Android was release obviously many manufactures did not know what hardware was really needed to run the OS efficiently and provide a reason time of future proofing the phone. They certainly seem to know what specs are need now and nearly all newer Android phones have the capacity to keep up with the OS development for a few years. If you do not believe that, you have not been paying attention to the newer Android phones.

3) One of the good things about Android is the fact that you do have more hardware options and competition is generally a good thing for consumers. It does however, cause a few issues because the hardware differences that can cause issues for developers. But by that logic, there should be far more software applications available for the Mac than the PC, which is not true. It also does not seem that Androidn App development is slowing down. I could be wrong, but the number of apps in the market do appear to be growing at a reasonable pace...

However, you never did not really answer my basic question.

Do you think Android is doomed or not?

And for the record, I know that the iPhone will continue to be a good phone and sell very well....
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post #257 of 349
9/5/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The single biggest thing holding back Android adoption by Mac users is that there's no Android app to sync your phone with your Mac. And no, I don't want Google knowing everything about my phone any time I want to update my Calendar.

RIM's had a hard time lately, but at least they have their own free desktop-based app for syncing Contacts, Calendar and iTunes with a Mac.

I'd switch to Blackberry long before I ever consider an Android device.

Is this really big deal?

Doubletwist will sync your music, playlists and any non DRM protected videos.

I really do not have a problem with my address book and calendar syncing through GMAIL. It works great, it's free, and I have an on-line backup of my contacts and calendar?

Actually not having to use iTunes to sync everything with my phone is something i like about my Droid...
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post #258 of 349
9/5/10 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

That actually means lots of android devices are not used to browse the web.

Maybe, the users don't know how to turn Flash OFF!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #259 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I am beging to suspect that your parents were possibly too closely related. I think that now the % of people using 4.0 is > 90% because 1 month after the release it was 50%. The 99% will probably be true sometime this year. As you can see from the report only 1% were using 2.x. The upgrade cycle is simple.

Try not to think too hard, it's only gonna get you in trouble...

If you honestly believe iOS v4.x was/is no installed/upgraded on 90%+ of all the capable devices and Steve didn't make mention of it at the iPod/iOS/iPad/AppleTV rollout you've got to be daft! It would have had to have been the most rapid adoption of a new OS in the history of OSes. Okay that last part I pulled from the air (kinda like your 99% figure) but honestly if iOS v4 uptake was that quick Steve woulda been screaming it to any and all who'd listen...

Now, he might be saving up that news to coincide with the iOS v4.1 release next week... and that would make some sense.... Too much Apple news in 1 week tends to get glossed over more quickly.

If an 'amazing' iOS announcement comes out next week then my sincere apologies (really!)... but even me an Apple fan (for the most part) isn't buying that iOS has that kinda uptake.
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post #260 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:04pm
In raw numbers there are fewer apps for the Mac than for Windows. But the quality of Mac apps per total numbers is much higher than it is for Windows.

I'd take quality over quantity anytime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

But by that logic, there should be far more software applications available for the Mac than the PC, which is not true.
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post #261 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

Like it or not, Android phones are equal to the iPhone in functionality. I have an old Droid ( I have to use Verizon ) and it does almost everything the current iPhone 4 does and it is a year old now. I have several friends that have iPhones so we compare the phones on a regular basis.

The new front facing camera in the iPhone 4 is a nice option and the screen is a little nicer. I have a Macbook Pro and a couple of Mac Minis. I really wanted an iPhone and though I would get one when our company forced us to get our own phone plans and put us in a reimbursement plan. Unfortunately AT&T does not cover a full 2/3 of my sales territory in Georgia with 3G coverage. This severely limited the usefulness of the iPhone for my work. Reluctantly, I bought a Motorola Droid as a result.

I might get an iPhone if it was offered on Verizon, but to be honest, I have grown to like the Android OS. I connect it to USB, mount the drive and use it like any other storage device. I can easly read/write files to my network storage devices. It is much easier to customize the operation and appearance of my phone with Android. The Android development/user community reminds me of what Apple used to be before it started down the path of a totally closed system. I have yet to find anything I wanted to do with the phone that it could not do in simple and efficient manner. There are a few apps that the iPhone has that I wished Android had, but they are supposedly in development.

If Apple does not take the competition from Android seriously, I think it would be a mistake...

And for those of you who do not think Android is mature and competitive with the iPhone you obviously have not used one of the higher end Android phones for any length of time...

A very well reasoned and presented post.

I enjoy reading posts like this, and learn from them-- I want to know more, and am inclined to do some research...

... besides the fact that the poster comes from a place with a famous name: Kennesaw, Georgia.

There is some history to be learned-- Civil War and Major League Baseball:

Sports, 1866-1944 - 1st Commissioner of Baseball

"Regardless of the outcome of the juries, no player that throws a ball game, no man that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game, no player that sits in a conference with a bunch of crooked players where the ways and means of throwing games are discussed, and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever again play professional baseball."
- Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #262 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Apple does not build a smartphone all by themselves. Indeed, they build no smartphones at all, given that they own no production facilities, no chip fabrication plants, no plastic molding companies, no PCB manufacturing facilities nor anything else necessary to build a smartphone. They design stuff with help from the ChiComs. They build nothing.

Someone needs to grow up... but even going by your twisted logic then neither do most of the other cell phone makers. Oh and finally, you are still wrong!

Apple does build things, they build their brand along with their stockpile of cash reserves! Oh and yes, they happen to be exceptional at it.
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post #263 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Android's share of U.S. mobile web traffic climbed to 25% in August in its best one month gain since Nov. 2009.
][/url][/c]

Web traffic? based on how many bytes used? Does that mean yahoo mobile is better than BBC? does that mean poor compression is better (used more bytes than highly compressed data)? got headache to just think about it. Google map with 3D will improve traffic at least for 2X right the way if you compare to the map. Any info gain by that? (besides you can see your kids forgot to clean the yard after birthday party). Reward to the "inefficient" (some related to bad bad mobile web design, such as 300 to 400 just down load the front page) if it is used as bench mark.
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post #264 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post

You are missing the real dark horse in all of these assumptions on business use.

Cisco - http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps11156/

Their upcoming tablet is based on Android, and you can be sure that Cisco are not the only Business Communications provider who are releasing a tablet device over the coming year, most if not all of these will be android based.

With companies like Cisco, who already own the telephony, messaging and video at a very large proportion of companies worldwide bringing out android based devices then there is going to be little room, and no incentive to go with Apple in the future.

So in business we are going to be left with a straight fight between Android devices and Windows devices. Just like the future of business communications (telepphony and video) is now a straight fight between Microsoft and the likes of Cisco/Avaya/NEC etc..

Unless Apple can license IOS to selected vendors like this that i just cannot see any room for them in the corporate space in the future. So no, Apples future will always lie in the consumer space and for them Android might actually start to provide them with their first real competition (that is assuming of course that Microsoft have never really been any competition to Apple, despite what Microsoft ever thought).

But while it terms of just OS market share then Apple will off course be blown away by Android devices, this will always be by dozens of different vendors, hardware types and class of devices. There is no reason not to think that Apple devices will remain amongst the biggest selling of any competitor such as Samsung or Moto.

I like the idea!

Though, I do not think that Android (and the SDK) or the Cisco hardware is robust enough to deliver on the "promises" of the linked video.

I suspect that Cisco will implement all these apps/functions, first. on the iPad-- it is a known, entity; it already exists; likely, it has a robust SDK; it will have business install-base advantage for several years.

This ain't your father's Oldsmobile Tablet

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #265 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davegee View Post

more to the point their passion for design and the user experience is directly tied to their shareholder value.

+++ qft

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #266 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexkhan2000 View Post

Ahh, yes, the anonymous Internet know-it-alls here know a lot more about this industry than Jobs and his team of executives do. Yeah, we may work in a totally unrelated industry but we are all smarter and see all these things that they don't. Yes, Jobs and his lieutenants are reading all of your posts on AI to plan their next big move since all of you guys are so much smarter than they are.

I notice a pattern here since I visit forums ranging from MLB baseball to high-end electric guitar gear (an industry in which I work) to world history to quantum mechanics and it's always the same: the forum posters and bloggers know a *LOT* more than the people who work in their respective industries to make a living.

Yes, a guy working in a company making screws for auto parts knows more about baseball than the manager of the New York Yankees. A guy who works as a manager of a 7-11 store knows more about astrophysics than Stephen Hawking or a professor at Princeton. I mean, isn't that what the Internet is all about? I see that this place isn't any different. It always comes down to: "My penis is bigger than yours." or "My dad can beat up your dad."

Priceless!

My dad's penis is bigger than your dad's penis!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #267 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Indeed. We could be looking at 100 million iOS devices sold 2011. However are you assuming iPod nano will be considered an iOS device? I wonder if Apple will count it as an iOS device to boost iOS numbers. That would be naughty.

Nah!

Under no reality is the Nano an iOS device-- it just looks like one on TV!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #268 of 349
9/5/10 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Those things are a means to an end. You confuse the tactic with the strategy.

Hello!..... Is that you, Eric?..... Hello..... Eric?

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #269 of 349
9/5/10 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post

He wrote that  is sooo non important because  is tiny.
But  success annoys him/her. Which is a contradiction in itself.

In the end what we are discussing here?

Is it  business model or that  should die and that hegemony is supreme (software licensing by Google and Microsoft)?

Be fair!

Name one (or more) market leaders. innovators (if you will), that inspire to improve your life (even in a small way) by buying their products.

Pretty soon, we'll identify successful companies by longevity, ability to adapt...

MSoft is there, but failing... Never even heard of Dell, Google...

I bet my investment $ on AAPL, and my computer CE $ on Apple.... Neat, that one stop shopping, thingie!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #270 of 349
9/5/10 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think you are wrong about Apple' interest in profits. What jobs changed when he return was the short term focus on profits that many CEOs do from quarter to quarter while looking for a more profitable position. He's looking at the longterm growth, but in that vision is profits, which is why Apple is in the position they are today.

Hear! Hear!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #271 of 349
9/5/10 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Look, I love my iPhone, MBP, and I particularly love my new 27" quad core i7 iMac, but people have to realize that people (a lot of them probably) knowingly and consciously choose an Android phone, not because they cannot get an iPhone, or because and iPhone is too expensive, but rather because it is what they want.

Many only want Android because they want Verizon's network more than they want the iPhone, whether it be for reliability, 3G availability, or both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger View Post

1) Do you really think Android is doomed because a few older phones cannot be upgraded to the latest version?

2) Do you really think all Android phones are crap because a few manufactures chose to release them without the latest OS installed?

3) Do you really think the everyone will stop developing apps for the Android phones because they have to deal with different versions of the OS?

1. I don't think that Android is "doomed" because of fragmentation. If Android is doomed, it's only because of the Oracle suit. (Actually, Windows Phone 7 may give Android a run in the consumer market, once it gets multitasking and cut/copy/paste, etc.)

Most people don't care what version they use, or what version is out there, somewhere. They just want what they have to work well, and work with the apps they want.

2. No.

3. The most likely situation is that Android app makers keep making a single version that works with 1.6 and up, until a vast majority of Android devices work with 2.1 and up. Most phones these days aren't stuck on 2.0, so that's not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The examples of Android phones that aren’t being updated in a timely manner or at all goes to the heart of the matter of Android not being an ideal mobile OS for the average person, which will give Apple, RiM and others a very real and profitable segment of the market.

Don't underestimate the ability for the average human to blame the wrong person for a problem.

Take someone who wants to download a sports app for her Android phone. But what? It doesn't work with her Android 1.6-enabled phone? It must be the app maker's fault.

However, the app maker noticed that to make the app work the way that is needed, he needed some APIs from the 2.1 SDK, but that means the app won't work with 1.6. But instead of blaming the cellphone maker for not upgrading her phone to a more modern version of Android, that person will blame the app maker because, "I have an Android phone. I want it to work with my phone." Well, it wasn't possible with 1.6. Upgrade to 2.1. "But I can't upgrade it. And what do you mean by 'it's not possible'? Fix the problem. "

It's like a wife who blames her husband for picture quality issues on her favorite show, when the fault was with some faulty equipment at the TV station. It's completely illogical for her to blame someone who had no control over the problem, but she doesn't care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

There is some history to be learned-- Civil War and Major League Baseball:

Sports, 1866-1944 - 1st Commissioner of Baseball

"Regardless of the outcome of the juries, no player that throws a ball game, no man that entertains proposals or promises to throw a game, no player that sits in a conference with a bunch of crooked players where the ways and means of throwing games are discussed, and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever again play professional baseball."
- Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis

If you read Shoeless Joe's wikipedia profile, you'll find out that he may not have helped fix the World Series. Plus, his performance in the World Series was spectacular. He still got banned. He should absolutely be reinstated.
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post #272 of 349
9/5/10 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That phone still has to be activated and that user still needs to be tied to that device so I took that statement to mean any iPhone or iPad with cellular chips in it. Note that the iPad doesn't need to be activated right away to be used, one can wait until they go on vacation or whatever.

Really?

I took the SJ statement as meaning device IDs sent to Apple-- every iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch that needs to get "activated" blessed through iTunes.

'
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #273 of 349
9/5/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The single biggest thing holding back Android adoption by Mac users is that there's no Android app to sync your phone with your Mac. And no, I don't want Google knowing everything about my phone any time I want to update my Calendar.

RIM's had a hard time lately, but at least they have their own free desktop-based app for syncing Contacts, Calendar and iTunes with a Mac.

I'd switch to Blackberry long before I ever consider an Android device.

You haven't looked very hard. There's a great missing sync for android.
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post #274 of 349
9/5/10 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

That is not necessarily true. One of the biggest drawbacks of iOS devices is iTunes. One of the biggest drawbacks of iTunes is that it is so bloated.

Out of the billions of people in the world, room exists for many different types of software. I often wish that I could sync with a quick and dirty music transfer program, for example, instead of going through all the rigamarole involved with using iTunes.

And I sure as hell don't use it as a media player!

What rigamarole? Plug it in and sync.
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post #275 of 349
9/5/10 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Duh is right. Every manufacturer could like it, but that does not matter one bit.

The reason why Android is gaining market share is because consumers are buying Android devices faster and faster, certainly at a much faster rate than iOS devices. Fewer relevant consumers are buying iOS devices compared to greater numbers of relevant consumers buying Android devices.

These things are not mysterious. The rate of consumer purchases determines market share on a dynamic basis. The installed consumer base compared to competitors determines the static market share.

The reasons for market share are consumer buying habits, and not what manufacturers "like".

I just bought an iPhone. Two co-workers bought androids (motorola and samsung). Android looks pretty cool. Some neat widgets and keyboards. But the amount of times that the android screens didn't respond to input was amazing. Slow and buggy. Hmmmmm.

Neither co-worker has music loaded. They haven't gotten to it. I was able to easily sync my music the first day. Along with contacts too.. Of course previously purchase apps (1st gen iPod touch) Also synced.
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post #276 of 349
9/5/10 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Right. Nail on head. Why would a developer ( or his manager) target 2.2 which is only available to a few million android phones, when he could target all iDevices from the 3G up. The original iPhone sold 2 M, and I think we can assume that most people have upgraded. So effectively the iDevice market for 4.x is all of it, and the Android 2.2 market is a fraction of the total android market.

Nail on head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Yeah, and Zune is the second most popular type of MP3 player IN THE WORLD.

Do you really care? Both the Zune and the Mac are all but irrelevant in their respective markets.

Man I'm glad apple products are irrelevant...... irrelevance must equal huge stock price gins.
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post #277 of 349
9/5/10 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post

What rigamarole? Plug it in and sync.

Yeah, but... ya' gotta plug it in...

... as opposed to standin' on the corner waiting' for someone to fulfill your life's destiny...

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #278 of 349
9/5/10 at 8:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by striker_kk View Post

Why do u think Apple is not a software company? Because Press said so? Because Steve said so? What is the prerequisite for a company to be called a software company?

To create software for various hardware vendors..?
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post #279 of 349
9/5/10 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Gilling View Post

No not really. But Apple should care as it's there achievement. And no the Zune is not irrelevant, and the Mac definitely isn't. No 1 in the Media and Arts, and people who buy comps over $1000, Apple has 91% of that Market. It isn't me with a single minded point of view.

Though that 91% was back in 2009 (before Windows 7 was released?) and, much as I remember, was covering only retail units... which is a bit misleading. It could be different in USA, but living in NZ, I know only 1 person with high-end brand PC (Dell Studio XPS) and about 20 of them with custom built over US$1000 rigs.

Regarding laptops, Apple was doing remarkably well, but then again, it was before Windows 7 came out... and new desirable units, like Toshiba Portege R700, followed.
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post #280 of 349
9/5/10 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Maybe. This assumes that MS cannot recapture any share they lost to Android with WP7. Android CE makers have no overwhelming loyalty to the platform in the same way that Apple has with iOS, Nokia has with Symbian and RIM with Blackberry.

LG, Samsung, HTC, Sony-Ericsson all are rumored to have WP7 phones in the pipeline. These aren't going to take share from iOS but Android and Symbian.

What makes you think that? I personally know quite a few Windows PC users with iPhone that are considering to replace it with something else on their next phone refresh... me included. Hard core Apple users (with multiple Apple products) will stay in their ecosystem for ever, but for number of Windows users there is more dissadvantage than advantage in iTunes tie-up and number of other restrictions Apple has imposed to the iPhone.

None of them hate iPhone - it is good product in general... but many will simply take other products into consideration (at least). How many of them will still find iPhone still best for their needs will depend on where Android, WP7, Nokia... heck, even HP with WebOS... will be compared to iPhone and iOS.
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