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iPhone 4 antenna issue 'topical,' but users more interested in Verizon - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

It will inevitably show up on Verizon for sure. But when is the question. Last year, we had rumors of November and that came and went. This year, we have rumors of Janurary and that'll probably come and go with no iPhone on Verizon.

Until then, Android will: 9%...10%...11%...13%...15%...20%...

If Apple waits too long, it won't matter if the iPhone shows up on Verizon. Too many will have jumped onto the Android ship.

All the rumors I heard last year that were talking about November were talking about November 2010, not November 2009. People reading the rumors just weren't understanding them, or were reading rumors of rumors what weren't forwarding the correct information. So people were then disappointed about now iPhone last year, even though that's not what the rumors were saying. November 2010 to January 2011 is a relatively minor slip in the rumor's timeline.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

But isn't that a pretty common situation for Macs?

And do you really think that the FIOS software is good? I've used it a couple of times, but I think it kind of sucks.

I always just plug the laptop into the TV using HDMI. I have a long HDMI cable that goes to the table next to my seat. Its easy and quick with only one wire, and I get 5.1 sound with it. The battery lasts for several movies.

With a desktop, the FIOS software is the best choice, I guess. But laptops all have HDMI out.

I don't have a PC anymore so I can't comment on the software. And I too just plug my MacBook pro into the TV to watch stuff.
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

Isn't Verizon bringing Fios to the iPad? Maybe that's a start..

Let's hope so.
post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Embarking on the DV Android is like going on a cruise to no where. They'll be eager to jump off if they get a chance to sail to the islands on the SY iPhone.

As time goes forward, Android will continue to be refined to the point where the experience is identical (in many places it already is and surpasses) to iOS. Apple continuing to hold the iPhone on AT&T is just giving Google the free time they need.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is of Android. Many have jumped onto the Android ship and the vast majority have decided to stay onboard.

If Android is a terrible as you personally say it is, then why haven't people been jumping off in droves? Why are new Android phones being gobbled up faster than they can be produced?
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post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"In other words, our survey suggests that Apple is losing up to 20% of potential domestic iPhone sales due to the antenna issues," analyst Gene Munster wrote. He noted that could correlate to 880,000 fewer unit sales in the September quarter in a worst-case scenario.

Knock on wood, but I've still never had a dropped call on my iPhone 4 -- not one. I spend up to a couple hours a day on conference calls and my 3GS would drop several times a day just sitting in the office. My 4 works in every corner of the building and I can even ride the elevators or drive all the way home without fear of dropping.

I did hesitate to buy because of the antenna complaints, but feel stupid for doing so. It's hands-down the most reliable phone I've ever used.

I did get a black Apple Bumper case for free. For the longest time I didn't use it because reception was not an issue, but then I put it on just in case I drop it... it's an excellent case, although obviously not as protective as an OtterBox or some thick silicone cases.
post #46 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

All the rumors I heard last year that were talking about November were talking about November 2010, not November 2009. People reading the rumors just weren't understanding them, or were reading rumors of rumors what weren't forwarding the correct information. So people were then disappointed about now iPhone last year, even though that's not what the rumors were saying. November 2010 to January 2011 is a relatively minor slip in the rumor's timeline.

Maybe I mixed up the date the rumors started with the rumored launch date. But there are articles speculating a Verizon iPhone in 2009. I also do remember rumors that the 3GS launch event would include an announcement of the Verizon iPhone.

Point is that the Verizon iPhone rumor has persisted so long that it's starting to become like the boy who cried wolf. Every few weeks, a new date is put out and that date comes and passes with no iPhone on Big Red.

Maybe it will happen in January 2011. I'm personally not holding my breath.
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post #47 of 83
It is interesting to note that 100% of Android users were aware of the fact that they already own an Android phone. Whereas only 38% Iphone users were aware that they already own an Iphone. I wonder , of Iphone users who do not claim to own an Iphone, what is the ratio of those who use Iphones and Have considered buying one to those who use Iphone and have not considered buying one. Very silly survey.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Maybe I mixed up the date the rumors started with the rumored launch date. But there are articles speculating a Verizon iPhone in 2009. I also do remember rumors that the 3GS launch event would include an announcement of the Verizon iPhone.

Point is that the Verizon iPhone rumor has persisted so long that it's starting to become like the boy who cried wolf. Every few weeks, a new date is put out and that date comes and passes with no iPhone on Big Red.

Maybe it will happen in January 2011. I'm personally not holding my breath.

True, "the boy who cried wolf" is a good analogy.

Perhaps I should amend my original comment to state, "All the credible rumors I heard last year..." There's always those rumors which are based on wishful thinking. But the rumors I read which talked about the chips and technology that Apple would likely want for a Verizon iPhone said the tech wouldn't be available until the summer of 2010. That's why a Fall 2010 (and now early 2011) seemed credible to me.
post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

As time goes forward, Android will continue to be refined to the point where the experience is identical (in many places it already is and surpasses) to iOS. Apple continuing to hold the iPhone on AT&T is just giving Google the free time they need.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is of Android. Many have jumped onto the Android ship and the vast majority have decided to stay onboard.

If Android is a terrible as you personally say it is, then why haven't people been jumping off in droves? Why are new Android phones being gobbled up faster than they can be produced?

Because,

a) most of them have just recently jumped on, and

b) it was the only cruise available to them.

Your previous points about no iPhone on Verizon undermine your later arguments, making your entire line of reasoning extremely weak. Android appeals to carriers because, as they are quickly realizing, they can lock it down: it's the new feature phone OS. For the same reasons, it will become increasingly unpopular with users in the future, and even the geeks who tremble with excitement over each new Android phone will eventually end up with a bad taste in their mouths.
post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

If Android is a terrible as you personally say it is, then why haven't people been jumping off in droves? Why are new Android phones being gobbled up faster than they can be produced?

That's somewhat like asking why people continue to smoke, isn't it?
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post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Because,

a) most of them have just recently jumped on, and

b) it was the only cruise available to them.

Your previous points about no iPhone on Verizon undermine your later arguments, making your entire line of reasoning extremely weak. Android appeals to carriers because, as they are quickly realizing, they can lock it down: it's the new feature phone OS. For the same reasons, it will become increasingly unpopular with users in the future, and even the geeks who tremble with excitement over each new Android phone will eventually end up with a bad taste in their mouths.

How so? As long as there's no Verizon iPhone, Android will continue to gain. As long as there is no Verizon iPhone, Google will continue to get the free time it needs to continue to polish Android. It's currently not a completely horrible OS and many are finding that out when they use it.

If Apple doesn't break the exclusivity with AT&T until much, much later (say mid-to-late 2011), Android will have already saturated the market to the point where a swing won't be as deadly as it would be now. That's been my point all along.

As for "locked down", is that any different than Apple getting to decide which services will and will not work on the iPhone or when they will get to implementing them? Or what AT&T will and will not allow to work?

The carriers may have noticed that, but thankfully, they've been extremely slow in locking them down. So far, the only instances I've heard of are AT&T keeping Android phones from being able to run third-party apps (on-par with the iPhone) and the Galaxy S on Verizon being restricted to Bing searchs. Neither of those two are huge deal-breakers in my book.

And those geeks you speak of only view the "locked down" as more of a challenge than anything else. Look at the Motorola X. It was supposed to be locked to only the OS Motorola put on it, but it's already been cracked to run a custom OS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

That's somewhat like asking why people continue to smoke, isn't it?

I see what you did there.
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post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

... It's currently not a completely horrible OS and many are finding that out when they use it.

If Apple doesn't break the exclusivity with AT&T until much, much later (say mid-to-late 2011), Android will have already saturated the market to the point where a swing won't be as deadly as it would be now. That's been my point all along.

As for "locked down", is that any different than Apple getting to decide which services will and will not work on the iPhone or when they will get to implementing them? Or what AT&T will and will not allow to work? ...

Not completely horrible? Yeah, that's what most consumers want.

As far as market saturation goes, it won't mean anything. People get new phones at least every two years, or they pay ETFs to jump to new phones. People will simply wait out their contracts or pay the ETF and Android will become the precipitate falling out of the saturated market.

To answer your final questions, yes.
post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipaq View Post

When I went in the store I simply said that I wanted to buy an iPhone 4 and no one suggested anything else to me.

My decision was made after hearing and reading all the antenna stuff.

Just got my free case from Apple (made by Belkin) today and I will use it for protection not reception.

My experience was similar. I have a iP3G, and never had any problems with it or ATT at home in Seattle or when I've travelled. My wife has an old dumb phone, and an older iPod touch. She was in need of some tech upgrade, so I decided to get the an iP4 for her birthday. I've read a lot about the antenna issues, and have casually asked a few iP4 owners in passing if it is a problem for them. Not a scientific sample, but it ididn't seem widespread.

I walked a few blocks from my office to the ATT store. Staff was friendly, was asked w/i 30seconds of entering if they could help. Store had a few customers shopping, I casually asked if they had any iPhones in stock. "We have a few." Made a quick call to my wife to see if she could do with her phone being deactivated for a couple hours - just unitl I could get the new one to her at home that evening.

The ATT purchase/ activiation took all of about 10 minutes. Guy asked me to pick out a case, and tossed it in the bag, no questions or charge. My wife doesn't need huge data, so we got her the 200MB one. (Be nice if the tech 'tards at work would give her access to their wifi tho.)

Set up on iTunes for my wife was flawless. There have been no reception issues. She loves it.

Will replace my iP3G with iP4 shortly.

Simply put, Apple stuff just works for me. Was watching a collague wrestle with a PC last night. The furrowed brow syndrome was evident. My Apple stuff just...works.
post #54 of 83
From the onset of the iPhone I was drooling. I held off since I was using VZ and had no desire to switch to AT&T. As time went by I kept drooling and recently almost made the switch just to get the iPhone. I was pushed to change after a real estate deal that put my vacation home in a no signal area. Further research showed me that only AT&T was covering the area meaning that if I wanted cell coverage I HAD to change. However, by the time I made the decision to switch, the iPhone fell out of favor with me and I got a Samsung Galaxy S. The service is great, the phone needs a bit of a learning curve on my part, but my previous phone was a 6 year old flip phone dating back to the days of no camera phones! My reasons for going to the "dark side" were simply that it appeared to me that it was the right one for the moment. I'm still an avid Mac used and have only macs as computers and have had them since the early 90's but the phone didn't seem to be as critical to me.
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Androids have only a 9% share?

I thought that they had taken over, from all the hyperventilating that went on here from some?

That is total users. The iPhone has been selling for other 3 years now, whilst Android has only been selling in a meaningful way since the introduction of the Droid one year ago. Apple has a massive head start.

The "hyperventilating" is due to how quickly Android has gone from almost nowhere to outselling the iPhone during recent quarters. There is still a long way to go before the number of Android users matches the number of iPhone users and even further before Android catches iOS.
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

That is total users. The iPhone has been selling for other 3 years now, whilst Android has only been selling in a meaningful way since the introduction of the Droid one year ago. Apple has a massive head start.

The "hyperventilating" is due to how quickly Android has gone from almost nowhere to outselling the iPhone during recent quarters. There is still a long way to go before the number of Android users matches the number of iPhone users and even further before Android catches iOS.

I guess I should have added a /sarcasm tag..... \

(As an aside, if Apple could make iP4s - incl. the white - the share numbers would, arguably, be off the charts).
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

How so? As long as there's no Verizon iPhone, Android will continue to gain. As long as there is no Verizon iPhone, Google will continue to get the free time it needs to continue to polish Android. It's currently not a completely horrible OS and many are finding that out when they use it.

But you seem to think that the iPhone development will just stand still from now on. Don't you think the next iPhone (5) and the next one after that (6) aren't currently being tested and designed? I doubt iPhone hardware/software development has come to a halt.
post #58 of 83
20% is a lot. But 260 people is NOTHING! A survey of less than 10.000 people doesn't give any image of the real deal.
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post #59 of 83
I appreciate the love for Verizon's network, but I couldn't stand losing simultaneous voice and data functionality on AT&T 3G network. It's a tradeoff - the occasional weak signal for a dual-voice+data network.
Verizon users have never had that, so of course they wouldn't miss it, but I've gotten too accustomed to talking on a call while accessing a website or web app or my email.
post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

That's the funniest thing I heard all day. I thought you were just being sarcastic until I read your next post...



Even in 2013, Verizon's 4G footprint may not be big enough to not have CDMA to fall back on. Think less coverage than tmobile. And even if it was, how many millions would have gone to Android by then? Switching between Android and iPhone once you've invested in one is like switching between Mac and PC. Sure, it can be done; but all the money you spent in buying apps, all the time you spent learning how the OS works, is thrown out the window. The relatively minor incremental cost for Apple to deploy a Verizon iPhone is probably insignificant to the cost of getting an established Android user to switch platforms and repurchase all their apps 3 years from now.

Apple needs to be able to fight Android on a level playing field in the US. And they can't do that if they only have access to 1/3 of the US cell phone market (ATT's customer base).

Interesting analysis. I hadn't thought about folks investing in Android apps. Perhaps the absolute best marketing ploy for Apple is for the developers of apps and Apple to advertise they will waive the repurchase fees, if you switch to an iPhone from Verizon or T-mobile. The developers won't be happy, but maybe Apple can reimburse them somewhat for everyone who clicks to re-purchase one that has been bought before.

Reducing the barriers to entry would have an even more devastating effect on current Android users, and would further make them lust for an iPhone4 ASAP.
post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Interesting analysis. I hadn't thought about folks investing in Android apps. Perhaps the absolute best marketing ploy for Apple is for the developers of apps and Apple to advertise they will waive the repurchase fees, if you switch to an iPhone from Verizon or T-mobile. The developers won't be happy, but maybe Apple can reimburse them somewhat for everyone who clicks to re-purchase one that has been bought before.

Reducing the barriers to entry would have an even more devastating effect on current Android users, and would further make them lust for an iPhone4 ASAP.

As noted in another thread, Android users aren't paying for apps like iPhone users, and ad apps are much more common on Android, so Android users aren't likely to have to give up much of an investment to switch. iPhone users would give up lots of paid apps and iTunes ecosystem advantages (music, etc.), so there's more of a deterent to switching for them. As a plus, Android to iPhone users likely get to take advantage of the iTunes ecosystem that they are probably already using on their iPods.
post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

As time goes forward, Android will continue to be refined to the point where the experience is identical (in many places it already is and surpasses) to iOS. Apple continuing to hold the iPhone on AT&T is just giving Google the free time they need.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is of Android. Many have jumped onto the Android ship and the vast majority have decided to stay onboard.

If Android is a terrible as you personally say it is, then why haven't people been jumping off in droves? Why are new Android phones being gobbled up faster than they can be produced?

THEY HAVE, god get your facts right.
post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

As noted in another thread, Android users aren't paying for apps like iPhone users, and ad apps are much more common on Android, so Android users aren't likely to have to give up much of an investment to switch. iPhone users would give up lots of paid apps and iTunes ecosystem advantages (music, etc.), so there's more of a deterent to switching for them. As a plus, Android to iPhone users likely get to take advantage of the iTunes ecosystem that they are probably already using on their iPods.

Thanks for the info. On that same note, I've been told that Apps purchased for iP4 can be used on the iPad free of charge, even though they may not be optimized for the iPad display. Many apps I know are updated to take advantage of the iPad, so do they have to be bought separately for the iPad?

Does anyone know if paid apps bought for Android can be upgraded from the developer free of charge to the iP4 or iPad? (think: ATT Android user buys apps, then decides to switch to iP4 within ATT). Just curious.

I know that iTunes keeps record of your apps purchased, as well as music, so I assume that if you switch to Verizon, you would be able to sync with your new phone, and download your music - what about the Apps? Perhaps no one knows (yet), since the choice doesn't yet exist.
post #64 of 83
This stat doesn't surprise me. Roughly 20% of the U.S. population think Obama is a Kenya-born Muslim socialist.
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagman View Post

Thanks for the info. On that same note, I've been told that Apps purchased for iP4 can be used on the iPad free of charge, even though they may not be optimized for the iPad display. Many apps I know are updated to take advantage of the iPad, so do they have to be bought separately for the iPad?

Does anyone know if paid apps bought for Android can be upgraded from the developer free of charge to the iP4 or iPad? (think: ATT Android user buys apps, then decides to switch to iP4 within ATT). Just curious.

I know that iTunes keeps record of your apps purchased, as well as music, so I assume that if you switch to Verizon, you would be able to sync with your new phone, and download your music - what about the Apps? Perhaps no one knows (yet), since the choice doesn't yet exist.

iPhone only apps run on iPads, but they aren't optimal, yet, still work if it's something you need. Some iPhone/iPad are universal apps that are built with both iPad and iPhone UIs. Others are sold separately. It's basically a developer decision whether to support a universal app or create separate versions.

You can't upgrade Android apps to iPhone apps because all iPhone app purchases go through the App Store, not through developers. Likewise, since it's through the App Store and your iTunes ID, a hypothetical Verizon iPhone would be able to use the apps purchased for an AT&T iPhone.
post #66 of 83
All of a sudden the antenna wasn't a problem after all. They just want their verizon iPhone. Who knew? I will now refer to the apple bloggosphere/comment whores as FUD Clowns.
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Androids have only a 9% share?

I thought that they had taken over, from all the hyperventilating that went on here from some?

Wait till the iPhone shows up on Verizon: Android 9%....8%...7%...6%....

Android has 9% (I thought it was 11%) of the existing market share. But growing extremely rapidly. It's outsold the iPhone in the first two quarters. It made sense to not read too much into that since it would be reasonable to expect that most informed iPhone customers would wait till June. However, those numbers include the best release ever of the iPhone with 1.7 million phones sold in the first 3 days. By comparison, only 2.2 million iPhones were sold in the remaining 27 days of the month. I now expect that the third quarter will also see more Android phones sold compared to iPhones. In fact, at 18 million Android phones per quarter, it's nipping at the heels of all iOS devices sold - 21 million per quarter. And it's indeed remarkable since the first reasonably decent mainstream Android device was the Droid, less than a year ago.

I think Apple missed the Verizon boat. If Verizon had sold the iPhone last summer, it would have headed Android off at the pass at a time when the Android hardware was still not good enough for the mainstream. At this point, iPhone will sell a lot at Verizon, but I doubt that it's going to have a significant impact anymore. And the longer that gets delayed, the tougher and tougher it's going to get. While Verizon would love to get the iPhone, right now, Apple needs Verizon a lot more than Verizon needs Apple.
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

Thanks bud. It's ok I get it.
I'm just saying. Of course we all make comments we know to be right until someone points out we're not.

No groaning needed man. It's all good.

Except I think you're correct. Margin of error or not, I have never trusted surveys taken with small samples and I think they've been proven wrong many times.

In addition, most surveys are inaccurate because the way the questions are asked and answered are subject to interpretation. The way a question is asked frequently embeds bias and there's a certain amount of self-selection by people willing to take a survey that may not be consistent with the opinions of the general population.

Furthermore, what people say they are going to do is not what they actually do. Absolutely no one predicted the extent of Obama's win in 2008.
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

Android has 9% (I thought it was 11%) of the existing market share. But growing extremely rapidly. It's outsold the iPhone in the first two quarters. It made sense to not read too much into that since it would be reasonable to expect that most informed iPhone customers would wait till June. However, those numbers include the best release ever of the iPhone with 1.7 million phones sold in the first 3 days. By comparison, only 2.2 million iPhones were sold in the remaining 27 days of the month. I now expect that the third quarter will also see more Android phones sold compared to iPhones. In fact, at 18 million Android phones per quarter, it's nipping at the heels of all iOS devices sold - 21 million per quarter. And it's indeed remarkable since the first reasonably decent mainstream Android device was the Droid, less than a year ago.

I think Apple missed the Verizon boat. If Verizon had sold the iPhone last summer, it would have headed Android off at the pass at a time when the Android hardware was still not good enough for the mainstream. At this point, iPhone will sell a lot at Verizon, but I doubt that it's going to have a significant impact anymore. And the longer that gets delayed, the tougher and tougher it's going to get. While Verizon would love to get the iPhone, right now, Apple needs Verizon a lot more than Verizon needs Apple.

I don't understand the fretting. The smartphone and idevice market is nascent. There is plenty of room to develop, sell, and make boatloads of money in the process. The thing to worry about for consumers (in the US anyway) is what dirty tricks the telecoms have up their sleeves and how to stop veroogle from turning the internet into cable tv 2.0.
post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

... While Verizon would love to get the iPhone ...

Well, that does raise an interesting question. Do they want the iPhone, or do they, now that they've realized they can produce Android feature phones that they fill with crapware and completely control the experience on (Like the new Verizon Android phone, I forget which one, that only allows you to search through Bing. Yeah, it will probably be hacked, but what percentage of users will actually do that.) they may be thinking they can go back to the good old days of being a carrier. On the other hand, if they end up being the only carrier without the iPhone, they'll likely end up losing subscribers over that in the long run. And, how much of a consumer backlash might there be now that it's been seen that it doesn't have to be that way?
post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post

I appreciate the love for Verizon's network, but I couldn't stand losing simultaneous voice and data functionality on AT&T 3G network. It's a tradeoff - the occasional weak signal for a dual-voice+data network.
Verizon users have never had that, so of course they wouldn't miss it, but I've gotten too accustomed to talking on a call while accessing a website or web app or my email.

Absolutely right. I'm a former Verizon customer who swtiched to AT&T only for the iPhone and of course, hated AT&T's poor service. However, I've found in recent months that the service has vastly improved and while still not as good as the service I used to get on Verizon, I have a feeling that the Verizon service will deteriorate very rapidly if tons of iPhone users switch to Verizon and/or they obtain tons of new customers. In addition, Verizon used to have cheaper overall plans than the iPhone plan on AT&T, but they don't anymore.

So that combined with the fact that I don't want to lose simultaneous voice and data means that after all my complaining that the iPhone wasn't available on Verizon, that I probably won't switch even if it becomes availble. I'm about to sign a new contract to get the iPhone 4, so I guess I'll re-evaluate in 2012.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

The carriers may have noticed that, but thankfully, they've been extremely slow in locking them down. So far, the only instances I've heard of are AT&T keeping Android phones from being able to run third-party apps (on-par with the iPhone) and the Galaxy S on Verizon being restricted to Bing searchs. Neither of those two are huge deal-breakers in my book.

AT&T has the lamest selection of Android phones. It's like they went out of their way to hunt them down and line them up at AT&T. The Captivate is the only good phone they have and they gimped that one as well to prevent users from installing apps outside the Market.

For most consumers wanting to buy Android phones from Verizon, Bing is a complete deal-breaker. The fact that you can't even get the option to change the default to Google is simply unacceptable. For people who are walking into Verizon to buy a smart phone, it will make no difference since they won't realize that they are not going to get free Google Navigation and instead are going to be directed at Verizon's app. My sister was not even aware of the existence of the Market 2 months after the purchase of her Android phone. Sadly, she is representative of the mainstream buyer.
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

... but it's easy enough to add capacity if required.

I'm no expert, but I don't see how it can be easy to increase your manufacturing when you are also dependent upon the capacities of other companies to provide components. Somebody told me once: that "nothing simple is ever easy", and I've seen countless examples of that since.

Thompson
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

...Switching between Android and iPhone once you've invested in one is like switching between Mac and PC. Sure, it can be done; but all the money you spent in buying apps, all the time you spent learning how the OS works, is thrown out the window. The relatively minor incremental cost for Apple to deploy a Verizon iPhone is probably insignificant to the cost of getting an established Android user to switch platforms and repurchase all their apps 3 years from now.

This would be a significant issue if it weren't for the fact that Android users actually spend a lot less money on Apps than iPhone users (in general). There is a wealth of free stuff on the Android OS, and non-free apps are fairly easy to pirate.

There's also this fact: even on iPhone, one can get hooked up quite nicely with all sorts of capabilities without dropping a ton of cash. Software is just not as big a barrier anymore. Apple has successfully hit the "reset" button on the value proposition. We are back to valuing the hardware platform, and we "expect" to get our software for minimal cost. This has to have Microsoft tearing its hair out... their entire business model has been effectively devalued because they let other companies move first and set the expectations.


Thompson
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

If Android is a terrible as you personally say it is, then why haven't people been jumping off in droves?

Well, the majority of users can't just jump off without breaking contract, so it's probably too early to hang your hat on that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Why are new Android phones being gobbled up faster than they can be produced?

Anecdotal evidence is suggesting that Android does best wherever the choice of iPhone carrier is limited, and in other places not so well. Don't know whether it's actually true, but it certainly is a plausible answer, and I guess we'll know better when two things happen:

(1) Apple DOES introduce iPhones on multiple carriers in the US, and
(2) Current Android users' contracts begin to expire and we see what they do about it.

Thompson
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

AT&T has the lamest selection of Android phones. It's like they went out of their way to hunt them down and line them up at AT&T. The Captivate is the only good phone they have and they gimped that one as well to prevent users from installing apps outside the Market.

Well now isn't it possible that the choice wasn't entirely AT&T's?

If I were Motorola, I'd definitely seek exclusive agreements with Verizon for all of my best smartphone models. This way, you keep the margins up (in return for exclusivity, a carrier will pay higher subsidy per phone) and focus your efforts on the market segment that's most likely to gobble up your products.

Thompson
post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Well now isn't it possible that the choice wasn't entirely AT&T's?

If I were Motorola, I'd definitely seek exclusive agreements with Verizon for all of my best smartphone models. This way, you keep the margins up (in return for exclusivity, a carrier will pay higher subsidy per phone) and focus your efforts on the market segment that's most likely to gobble up your products.

Thompson

Motorola's best Android phones do seem to be on Verizon, but HTC makes excellent Android phones and they have different top line models with T-Mobile, Sprint and Verizon. Sony Ericson has a decent Android phone. LG has some decent phones. It just seems like AT&T went to the bottom of the barrel with each vendor - except Samsung.

Although based on the AT&T exec who spoke at the mobile conference yesterday, it seems there may be some changes coming up. I only hope people haven't been buying Android phones (except Captivate) on AT&T, otherwise they'll continue with their mediocre offerings.
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, that does raise an interesting question. Do they want the iPhone, or do they, now that they've realized they can produce Android feature phones that they fill with crapware and completely control the experience

Last summer Apple would have had Verizon bending over backwards agreeing to every possible term. I doubt that Apple will allow Verizon to ruin the iPhone experience. That's one thing Apple's done real well along with the ability to bypass the carrier for upgrades. But Verizon will make Apple give ground on other things. Android's success has all but ensured that.

Rooting the Samsung Fascinate is extremely simple and removing the stock apps is as well. You don't even need to install a custom ROM. But a mere fraction of Verizon's customers will do it. The rest will be stuck with Bing and Verizon's navigation.
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

Motorola's best Android phones do seem to be on Verizon, but HTC makes excellent Android phones and they have different top line models with T-Mobile, Sprint and Verizon. Sony Ericson has a decent Android phone. LG has some decent phones. It just seems like AT&T went to the bottom of the barrel with each vendor - except Samsung.

Although based on the AT&T exec who spoke at the mobile conference yesterday, it seems there may be some changes coming up. I only hope people haven't been buying Android phones (except Captivate) on AT&T, otherwise they'll continue with their mediocre offerings.

OK, so HTC's strategy seems to be one of broad market share as opposed to margin. And you're saying that HTC and AT&T haven't hooked up? I wonder what the hick-up is? (AT&T may not be everyone's favorite, but they probably don't just make business decisions arbitrarily.)

Thompson
post #80 of 83
And really none of this matters right now because Apple is selling as many as they can make. These are concerns to address after they have caught up with production. If it made a difference right now, we would probably see commercials addressing the antenna concerns. It seems like they are working to address the Verizon thing. That is a balancing act they must perform to keep subsidies up. If the phones cost $300-$400 instead of $200-$300 that would also change the number of people buying the phone. If Apple has managed to reduce their production costs so they can keep the $200-$300 price, then this is the perfect time to lose exclusivity. The other option is for Apple to try to set up a subsidy battle between Verizon and AT&T to try to draw people to their networks. If the iPhone were $300-$400 on Verizon and $200-$300 on AT&T, many people planning a switch to Verizon would reconsider unless AT&T offers poor service in their area.
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