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Apple no longer banning third-party iOS development tools - Page 3

post #81 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

I think that is a little bit of a fanboy statement. I agree OSX is better, but how can it be more successful when most of the world uses PC's and are forced to use Windows?

No, the Bill Gates business strategy was a more successful one. Assuming were talking about sheer bucks in the bank.

Wow I thought it was pretty obvious, not even fanboys are so delusional as to think Mac is more successful than Windows from a business perspective, which is what the post was in response to.

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post #82 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone;

An .flv file is a movie file similar to a .mpg, it doesn't contain any Actionscript programming just audio and video. Flash decompilers to my knowledge only disassemble the binary .swf file back to an editable Flash .fla file but do not result in a playable file as in a deliverable application, with the notable exception of Gordon.js. The CS5 converter is a totally different animal. It produces a fully executable iPhone app which may behave like a Flash swf application but has nothing in common from a digital standpoint since it does not depend on a runtime player.

As for SWF yeah okay I get what you are saying. I'm just surprised that if you can decompile to a useable .fla with all the components and actionscript (I did this before)... Someone could make a Flash playing app that handles flv and swf elements as well as web pages. But this is where Adobe's licensing and restrictions probably all come into play, and come back to bite Adobe in the ass when it comes to iOS, Android, Bberry, Windowsphone...
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post #83 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

I think that is a little bit of a fanboy statement. I agree OSX is better, but how can it be more successful when most of the world uses PC's and are forced to use Windows?

No, the Bill Gates business strategy was a more successful one. Assuming were talking about sheer bucks in the bank.

Are you sure you aren't tekstud? This is perfect tekstudian logic in the context of the discussion -- you know, where you blatantly contradict the position you are arguing.
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post #84 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think that would still require codec support for FLV. While previously not allowed there have been recent video apps that seem to get around that limitation. Perhaps this evolution of the app store will allow for included codecs within apps.

You don't have to use On2, you can use H.264. Too bad they took flv export out of QuickTime. I preferred the pro version.

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post #85 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone;

Wow I thought it was pretty obvious, not even fanboys are so delusional as to think Mac is more successful than Windows from a business perspective, which is what the post was in response to.

Still all depends how you define better and successful. Windows is certainly more popular and widespread, on the desktop and laptop... But mobile and tablet is where things change.
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post #86 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Competition is neither good nor bad. Its results can be constructive, or destructive. It is only the actions of competitors that make the result of competition positive or negative, and there is no guarantee what the result will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

What a terrible thing to say. Competition is a very good thing. Unless you're a shareholder I guess.

Always nice to see people castigated for failing to hold firm to a dogma. Makes life so much more simple.

Here's how this could be a bad thing. Say Apple has a product that has superior features, and there's this competing product with inferior features but it's been commoditized.

Now say that someone makes a generic tool to make cross platform games (or whatever). They naturally target the lowest common denominator, ie only the features shared by both platforms.

Suddenly, Apple's superior features count for nothing, because programs aren't actually taking advantage of it. And the only thing that counts becomes price. Apple's marketshare goes to 3%. It's happened before. And competition there became a bad thing, because it was an obviation of everything but competition on price.
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post #87 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You seem to have missed my point. I agreed that competition was a necessary (although, not in a strict sense, since it's possible to have good come from a situation without competition) condition of a good outcome. However, the important distinction is that it is not a sufficient condition to guarantee a good outcome. Thus, declaring, "There is competition, all is well!" is a mistake since the existence of competition in no way guarantees that all is well.

Ah. Now that you've clarified it a bit more on the guarantee part, I agree with your thoughts. Seems like I read your point in reverse.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #88 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism;

I think that would still require codec support for FLV. While previously not allowed there have been recent video apps that seem to get around that limitation. Perhaps this evolution of the app store will allow for included codecs within apps.

Cinexplayer and OplayerHD are quite interesting Xvid players... Does adobe allow FLV playback in a lot of non-Adobe apps on PC or iOS or whatever?
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post #89 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

As for SWF yeah okay I get what you are saying. I'm just surprised that if you can decompile to a useable .fla with all the components and actionscript (I did this before)... Someone could make a Flash playing app that handles flv and swf elements as well as web pages. But this is where Adobe's licensing and restrictions probably all come into play, and come back to bite Adobe in the ass when it comes to iOS, Android, Bberry, Windowsphone...

SWF is an open protocol. Anyone can export as swf. Just very few players other than Flash out there but there are some. Only the newer versions of Flash are proprietary to Adobe however they have recently released their AS3 runtime engine as open source. Mozilla is in the process of incorporating it into a future version of FF. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/

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post #90 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:19am
Man, I am loving Atomic browser on iPad ! Just had to say. And probably it could not have been made with anything other than Xcode even if third party dev tools were available? Muah ha ha ha
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post #91 of 177
9/9/10 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


So while competition isn't good for everyone its good for the only group the matters which is the consumer.


How's all that competition from China working out for the American consumer .... can now buy more for the dollar ... just no jobs because of it.

Remember .. be careful what you wish for ... you just might get it.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #92 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Are you sure you aren't tekstud? This is perfect tekstudian logic in the context of the discussion -- you know, where you blatantly contradict the position you are arguing.

I am not techstud, who I miss having here by the way.
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post #93 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Wow I thought it was pretty obvious, not even fanboys are so delusional as to think Mac is more successful than Windows from a business perspective, which is what the post was in response to.

oops. sorry.

Ahh, whadda ya want from my life? I don't have time to read every irrational and illogical post on this forum.
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post #94 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

There has always been an exception for [HTML and javascript]. You can download javascript and execute it. I think all hybrid apps still get a mature rating though.

Quoting from the guidelines:
"Apps that browse the web must use the iOS WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript"

If an app isn't a web browser, then the use of HTML and javascript isn't explicitly sanctioned.
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post #95 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:14am
Field Test Returns in iOS 4.1

http://www.cultofmac.com/field-test-...-ios-4-1/58457
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post #96 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Ahh, whadda ya want from my life? I don't have time to read every irrational and illogical post on this forum.


Probably because you're too busy writing them.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #97 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Field Test Returns in iOS 4.1

http://www.cultofmac.com/field-test-...-ios-4-1/58457

Yes, this is some good news. The data it reports is minimal compared to past implementations, however, in that the tower being used isn't identified. With the new implementation, the signal can vary when the phone silently switches towers, not having anything to do with changes in the surrounding environment.
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post #98 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:28am
Where exactly can I find the iOS Developer Program license? And does anybody have the before and after versions so they can be compared?

Update: I found the new one at http://developer.apple.com/programs/...t_20100909.pdf
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post #99 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Yes, iFart was a work of true genius.

I agree. A work-o-f-art.
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #100 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

No, competition can result in a race to the bottom, as has happened in the PC industry.

There is no competition in the PC industry. There is competition between hardware manufacturers, but Microsoft has a monopoly on the OS. OS X, Linux, etc make up only a small percentage of PC sales. No competition means no need to innovate and improve. If there was a major competitor to Windows (maybe if OS X had 30% market-share) Microsoft would be motivated to improve Windows.

Or look at the browser market: Lots of improvements whilst Netscape and IE were battling it out. But when the competition ended and we were left with just IE, development stopped and we were left with IE6 stagnating for years. As soon as competition returned (thanks to FireFox) Microsoft were forced to start development on IE again and whilst IE8 is not as good as the competition it is a lot better than IE6.
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post #101 of 177
9/9/10 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

There is no competition in the PC industry. There is competition between hardware manufacturers, but Microsoft has a monopoly on the OS.

Good point. Now that Macs use the same standard hardware as PCs, it really all boils down to what OS is in the machine.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #102 of 177
9/9/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Field Test Returns in iOS 4.1

http://www.cultofmac.com/field-test-...-ios-4-1/58457

What is that icon between the bluetooth icon and the battery percentage?
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post #103 of 177
9/9/10 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Probably because you're too busy writing them.

Yeah! Ha ha ha. Ummm there is only one difference. Some people really believe the madness they post and some come here for the satire.

Ah, the Apple Insider forum. What a collection of... oops. Gotta watch the name calling. Don't want to get another point.
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post #104 of 177
9/9/10 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Exactly. Deluged by brainless web app morons.

Trust me, There will be a million dollar Flash app. It will probably be written by a teenager who will laugh at you all the way to the bank. But, you could still be right in what you said. Thats the way the world works. Even a guy who looks like Hugh Hefner can get girls.
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post #105 of 177
9/9/10 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I would have preferred that they had, but, still, the marketplace is likely to be hostile to the crap Flash apps we are likely to see. This may actually be a case where competitive forces will convince developers that laziness and crappy development tools (i.e., Flash) don't lead to marketplace success. The sheer number of quality apps from Objective-C developers will likely cause this garbage to disappear into the obscurity of the App Store's bottom apps list: apps that are almost never downloaded and have overwhelmingly negative reviews. Based on what's out there on the web, there will be no quality Flash apps, and Flash development will be recognized as the complete waste of time that it is.

Insiders at Apple disagree with you.
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post #106 of 177
9/9/10 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Quoting from the guidelines:
"Apps that browse the web must use the iOS WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript"

If an app isn't a web browser, then the use of HTML and javascript isn't explicitly sanctioned.

WebKit is not a Web browser. It's a set of frameworks with JavascriptCore you can leverage.
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post #107 of 177
9/9/10 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

Trust me, There will be a million dollar Flash app. It will probably be written by a teenager who will laugh at you all the way to the bank. But, you could still be right in what you said. Thats the way the world works. Even a guy who looks like Hugh Hefner can get girls.

Women will always spread for financial security.
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post #108 of 177
9/9/10 at 4:07pm
Hopefully Flash 10.1 support for iOS is not too far off.

(since the rest of the ENTIRE world is working with Adobe to make it work, and work well on their devices... Apple would be foolish to ignore this out of spite)
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post #109 of 177
9/9/10 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Women will always spread for financial security.

Wow. Did you really mean to write that?

Creepy philosophy....
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post #110 of 177
9/9/10 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Keeper_Fan_Mod View Post

Hopefully Flash 10.1 support for iOS is not too far off.

(since the rest of the ENTIRE world is working with Adobe to make it work, and work well on their devices... Apple would be foolish to ignore this out of spite)

Apparently the BoD has finally found the cojones to stand up to Steve. After this morning's success, your prediction may indeed come to pass.
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post #111 of 177
9/9/10 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I would have preferred that they had, but, still, the marketplace is likely to be hostile to the crap Flash apps we are likely to see. This may actually be a case where competitive forces will convince developers that laziness and crappy development tools (i.e., Flash) don't lead to marketplace success. The sheer number of quality apps from Objective-C developers will likely cause this garbage to disappear into the obscurity of the App Store's bottom apps list: apps that are almost never downloaded and have overwhelmingly negative reviews. Based on what's out there on the web, there will be no quality Flash apps, and Flash development will be recognized as the complete waste of time that it is.

This news must come as a crushing disappointment for you. You appear to be holding out on one last hope that Flash based iPhone apps won't have the same worthless 99% adoption rate that Flash in the desktop space has suffered.

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post #112 of 177
9/9/10 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Keeper_Fan_Mod View Post

Hopefully Flash 10.1 support for iOS is not too far off.

(since the rest of the ENTIRE world is working with Adobe to make it work, and work well on their devices... Apple would be foolish to ignore this out of spite)

Unlikely. That would be a massive u-turn from Apple.

Right now Apple is such a big part of the mobile web that sites are slowly being forced to offer non-flash alternatives. I read today that in three years time the majority of gaming websites will probably be in HTML5 instead of Flash.

Now the rise of Android with its support for Flash may change this. If Flash support starts to become a competitive advantage I can see it being added to iOS; however, I don't think that will happen in the near term and the longer Apple holds out the stronger the argument for HTML5 becomes in the fight against Flash.
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post #113 of 177
9/9/10 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is this a U-turn or the natural progression of an maturing platform. .

The two are not mutually exclusive. As a result of a maturing platform, Apple could have seen the need to reverse its policy, which it then did.
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post #114 of 177
9/9/10 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

Unlikely. That would be a massive u-turn from Apple.

All that much more massive than the u-turn from their bizarre, unprecedented control over developers' choice of languages?
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post #115 of 177
9/9/10 at 5:05pm
In a way, requiring Xcode for iOS development helped ensure that developers would actually use Macs, which could lead to more Mac sales. Does the allowing of third party dev tools mean that developers will no longer need a Mac or Xcode at all, from initial coding to submission to the App Store?
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post #116 of 177
9/9/10 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

All that much more massive than the u-turn from their bizarre, unprecedented control over developers' choice of languages?

Much much more massive and much more public.

Apple is heavily pushing HTML5 and have been very public with the anti-Flash comments.
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post #117 of 177
9/9/10 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

The Federal Trade Commission probably called Jobs and told him he was going to jail if he didn't stop trying to rule the world.

Hyperbole, thy name is Blackintosh.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #118 of 177
9/9/10 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Hyperbole, thy name is Blackintosh.

Could it also be hyperbola as his arguments will eventually circle back contradicting his original posts?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #119 of 177
9/9/10 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Competition is neither good nor bad. Its results can be constructive, or destructive. It is only the actions of competitors that make the result of competition positive or negative, and there is no guarantee what the result will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

What a terrible thing to say. Competition is a very good thing. Unless you're a shareholder I guess.

No, anonymouse has stated the truth very succinctly. It is naive to believe that competition is just good. Competition leads to clashes over resources in which the resource itself is often diminished leading to further clashes. Wastage is maximized.

Cooperation (often maligned as socialism or communism) means that a resource is shared with wastage minimized.

Competition is good in so far as it motivates the competitors to do better and thus satisfy more customers. Cooperation lacks this motivation. But we should be motivated to produce good work even in the absence of competition. That is cool.

At worst competition leads to wars or protracted legal battles.

If you want to see the bad effects of competition in the computing marketplace try to get a hold of Richard DeLamater's Big Blue: IBM's use and abuse of power.
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post #120 of 177
9/9/10 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

So, all you are really saying, is that for a business, the owners or the shareholders, a lack of competition is good. That is sort of what he meant when he said "Unless you're a shareholder I guess". Obviously, for a business, or anyone involved in it, a lack of competition is good.

Well, the ultimate goal of competition is to kill the competition right. So there is no competition. So the pro-competition people just vanished in a puff of their own logic!
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