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Nokia CEO to step down as company still struggles to combat iPhone - Page 2

post #41 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

That includes upgrades, apple claim is they are new activations only.

That is not the point. The point I responded to is that Android does not quote hard numbers. The point I responded to does not match reality.
post #42 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Good idea. Replace the CEO of a phone company that is slipping severely, with one from a company whose phones have been failing, and call it a good deal.

Ha, precisely.
post #43 of 203
competitors need to build more than an iPhone killer, they need to build a complete environment around a smart phone, complete range of music devices, small computer (iPad), tv device, and laptop and get ahead of a curve where apple is already thinking of their next great product years ahead, in addition to upgrading their current products. when all this gets tied together and have a cloud environment added to the mix, it's going to be difficult for a phone company like Nokia to rethink their whole business to compete with a very profitable world-wide consumer product company. Someone had a vision and is profiting greatly, does the new guy at Nokia have one?
post #44 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

I think that you are not qualified to pick a new CEO for Noklia, given that you have never even sat on a single board of directors for a company like Nokia.

You seem to think that the Nokia board is akin to a council or cardinals, using divine inspiration to pick their new leader with a puff of white smoke.
They've demonstrated incompetence unceasingly for the past several years. One is perfectly entitled to posit that they are acting out of desperation, not inspired knowledge as you seem to attribute to them.
post #45 of 203
Melgross or anyone else...

Does Google get a fee for Android?
post #46 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmindbender View Post

Melgross or anyone else...

Does Google get a fee for Android?

No, Android is given away to whomever wants it. Strictly speaking, Android is a loss leader for Google to support their other ventures.
post #47 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Tell you what: If and when you sit on the board of a multi-billion dollar company that sells more product in their category than any other company in the entire world, THEN you will get to choose a new CEO.

Until then, I think I will trust the judgment of those who actually have some credibility in the industry, OK?

I assume your talking about Windows OS?
Sells! Are you sure about that? Long established licensing agreements from many years ago perhaps. Tell me, if the third party hardware makers didn't run windows, what suitable alternative is there in your opinion? OSX is not up for grabs, so what other viable software solution do they have? Where's the choice?
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #48 of 203
goog needs to start charging for android now that it is so widely used. those other cell phone makers could not get their stuff together to compete against apple without android.
post #49 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

One reason only: To maximize total profits. All of a small amount is often worse than a portion of a large amount. It ain't the proportion that matters; it is the gross amount.

Huh? So you are saying you can maximize profits by paying the Microsoft tax rather than not sending Microsoft all your profits? Wow, guess you failed Economics 101. Windows Phone 7 is dead on arrival. Android is selling like hotcakes. So a small portion(pay MS tax) of a tiny amount (failed windows phone 7) or all of a all (Android = free) of a large amount (Android)?
post #50 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Correct. It was a necessary premise which went unstated.

It's also pretty obvious that neither are several of the ones who are on Nokia's board now.

It also doesn't matter that I wouldn't be picked for their board, as that's as much as who you know. Their board has been making some pretty bad decisions which is why the business is on the way down.
post #51 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

I assume your talking about Windows OS?

Nope. I'm talking about people who have never sat on a BOD of a publicly-traded company, but who nevertheless think that they are more qualified to hire a CEO than those who do.
post #52 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

Huh? So you are saying you can maximize profits by paying the Microsoft tax rather than not sending Microsoft all your profits?

That one factor is not sufficient to make any sort of determination about the bottom line.

That is what I am saying.
post #53 of 203
I think what's happening to Nokia today, should go someway to convincing those who feel Apple are betraying its loyal customers by moving away from computers, which of course they are not, and that Apple were right. (i think i typed that wrong but you catch my drift).

Nokia should take a leaf out of the Apple book and start diversifying. Take stock of its phone business. Accept it's inevitable they will lose more market share in its phone business and start looking for that "next big thing".

Although i don't think its as simple as that. Take iPod Touch with games. It was marketed as an iPod, which it is of course. But Apple were really smart enough to recognise the trend towards gaming and responded quickly. I'm not sure Nokia have these type of people in their business.

Certainly if MS are serious about mobile success, then they've made a huge error already by letting this guy go to Nokia. Either that or they didn't rate him in the first place.
A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...
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post #54 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Good idea. Replace the CEO of a phone company that is slipping severely, with one from a company whose phones have been failing, and call it a good deal.

Hello, Nokia! Apple! Should have hired an APPLE executive!
post #55 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post


Nokia should take a leaf out of the Apple book and start diversifying.

Nokia Corporation (Nokia) is engaged in the manufacturing of mobile devices and in converging Internet and communications industries. It has three segments: Devices & Services, NAVTEQ, and Nokia Siemens Networks. Devices & Services is responsible for developing and managing its portfolio of mobile devices, as well as designing and developing services, including applications and content. NAVTEQ is a provider of digital map information and related location-based content and services for automotive navigation systems and Internet-based mapping applications. Nokia Siemens Networks provides mobile and fixed network infrastructure, communications and networks service platforms, as well as professional services, to operators and service providers. In September 2009, it acquired Plum Ventures, Inc. In October 2009, Nokia sold its Symbian Professional Services. In December 2009, Giesecke & Devrient acquired Venyon Oy. In April 2010, it acquired Novarra, Inc. and MetaCarta Inc.
post #56 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Nope. I'm talking about people who have never sat on a BOD of a publicly-traded company, but who nevertheless think that they are more qualified to hire a CEO than those who do.

Nokia's management have done nothing to counter iPhone.
In the last 4 years they have.
  • Covered their ears and eyes and said everything is fine. We are number 1!
  • Kept announcing the next product before it is ready - proclaiming it will be an iPhone killer.
  • Kept releasing dreadful product.
  • Kept releasing statements which said stuff like "We are getting this situation under control.
  • Continued to create a confusing product portfolio - and a muddled technology strategy.
  • Taken the World Number 1 cellphone manufacturer, and taken it to the brink of loss-making.
  • In 2011 Nokia will make a loss.

But of course, we mortals are not allowed to criticise their godlike abilities. How dare we judge them by outcome?

C.
post #57 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Nope. I'm talking about people who have never sat on a BOD of a publicly-traded company, but who nevertheless think that they are more qualified to hire a CEO than those who do.

Hate to tell this to you, but there are many members of Board of Directors in publicly traded companies who are not qualified to hire even a dogcatcher much less the CEO to lead a tech company and who are there because a) They bought their way in through investments b) Political protection, case in point , Al Gore of Apple's BoD c) Unions ( leadership, not rank and file) d) Nepotism e) Through political activism. Sad but true.

Honestly between you and melgross, he have a much better chance in being a member of another company's BoD especially if he shown excellent business savvy running his companies.
post #58 of 203
And now the moment you've all been waiting for! Envelope please.... Ladies and gentlemen, the award for 'Accepting a CEO position at the worst possible time in history' goes to Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo (Nokia: 2006-2010)!
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post #59 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Nope. I'm talking about people who have never sat on a BOD of a publicly-traded company, but who nevertheless think that they are more qualified to hire a CEO than those who do.

Man, what a broken record. Do you really have any opinion to bring to the forum or can you only repeat that stupid sentence over and over and over???

It's obvious Nokia trying to save the sinking ship and thinks the Microsoft guy can pull a Steve Jobs-like turnaround, which is unlikely as the Microsoft guy has never done anything like this.

You don't seem to have any proof that he can turn things around or that the current board of directors is making a smart decision.
post #60 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Nokia Corporation (Nokia) is engaged in the manufacturing of mobile devices and in converging Internet and communications industries. It has three segments:
Devices & Services,
NAVTEQ, and
Nokia Siemens Networks.

NAVTEQ represents only 2% of Nokia's business.
So we have a company that makes phones, and phone network masts etc..

That's not diversified.

Nokia's business model was predicated on shifting large volumes of product to stable customers, who were large network operators - carriers and distributors.

Apple's disruption of the market caused a dramatic shift, taking power away from carriers, and moving it towards consumers. I don't think Nokia ever figured this out.

C.
post #61 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not Ok, ok?

Unlike you, apparently, I owned two successful businesses. Large or small, there are some principles that apply.

Mel, why on earth are you trying to explain yourself?!?! You have every right to voice your opinion just like everyone else. Heck most people here present company included have zero problem voicing their opinions on issues that are often quite far from their comfort zone.
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post #62 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Where my mouth is at is calling out people who think they are more qualified than the members of the BOD of a multi-billion dollar megacorporation which sells more product than anybody else in their industry.

Buying Nokia will not constitute putting my money where my mouth is, unless Nokia puts these guys on their board of directors. In such an event, I will be happy to short Nokia immediately.

Talk is cheap. Especially the anonymous kind.
post #63 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

No, Android is given away to whomever wants it. Strictly speaking, Android is a loss leader for Google to support their other ventures.

You mean, "....loss leader for Google with which they plan to support other ventures."

Wait till they start to monetize it, which they will have to, at some point soon.
post #64 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

No, Android is given away to whomever wants it. Strictly speaking, Android is a loss leader for Google to support their other ventures.

And is unknowingly dumbing down all the cell phone makers in the process who previously developed/wrote/maintained their own OS and/or had multiple phones running under multiple OSes. Thanks to Google they've given all that up... hmmm I wonder whats gonna happen when google tires of Android. After all those pesky 'pet projects' at Google come and go like the wind.
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post #65 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You mean, "....loss leader for Google with which they plan to support other ventures."

Wait till they start to monetize it, which they will have to, at some point soon.

I am puzzled about how Google intend to monetize Android.
We are even seeing Android devices which have Bing as the only search engine!

As far as I can see, Android is neither a loss maker or a profit maker for Google.

C.
post #66 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post


You don't seem to have any proof that he can turn things around or that the current board of directors is making a smart decision.

That is because I have no opinion on either of those topics. Indeed, IMO, anybody who hazards a guess on either of those topics is speaking from a position of ignorance.
post #67 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

I wonder whats gonna happen when google tires of Android.


Likely they will sell it for a huge profit. Why would they make any other choice with such a successful venture?
post #68 of 203
This is the the biggest problem Apple ever faced!!

http://events.nokia.com/NokiaN8/
post #69 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

That one factor is not sufficient to make any sort of determination about the bottom line.

That is what I am saying.

I think we all know what you are saying...you are clearly pushing an agenda trying to say vendors should go with Microsoft Phone 7 because they will make more money, when the evidence clearly points to the contrary.

Sell 1,000,000 phones and pay $15 per phone to Microsoft= $15,000,000 to Microsoft and $15,000,000 less in your pocket, OR Sell 1,000,000 phones and $15,000,000 more in your profit column. Again, sounds pretty simple, unless of course you work for Microsoft.
post #70 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

That is because I have no opinion on either of those topics. Indeed, IMO, anybody who hazards a guess on either of those topics is speaking from a position of ignorance.

12th April 1912 - The Titanic sailed through calm waters.
14th April 1912 - 11:40 p.m. - The Titanic Struck the iceberg
15th April 1912\t12:00 a.m. - They engineers insist the ship is unsinkable
15th April 1912\t2.17 am\t - The last radio message was sent. The captain announced 'Every man for himself.
15th April 1912\t2.18 am - They appoint a new captain from Microsoft.

Nokia's survival requires a return to profitability. The low end devices make for plenty of activity but precious little profit.

The only option is to create a new product for the high end. But such a product demands they abandon their current path and create a massively attractive product that appeals to a mass consumer audience.

I don't think this is possible. Because Microsoft, Nokia and Sony all share a common weakness in that product development is led by engineers. The tail should not wag the dog.

C.
post #71 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltWater View Post

This is the the biggest problem Apple ever faced!!

http://events.nokia.com/NokiaN8/

Surely *this* was the biggest problem Apple ever faced?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...N97-phone.html

C.
post #72 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

That is because I have no opinion on either of those topics. Indeed, IMO, anybody who hazards a guess on either of those topics is speaking from a position of ignorance.

For a guy who has no opinion on the topic, you have WAY TOO MANY replies to this thread!!!
post #73 of 203
I wonder if the next Nokia smartphone will run Windows Phone 7.

If so, I wonder how much Ballmer paid Nokia's board members to install Elop.

Either way, it's a win-win situation for Nokia. If Elop can turn around their failed smartphone business, Nokia wins. If Elop runs Nokia's smartphone business into the ground, then at least it wasn't a Finn who killed it.

Brilliant forward thinking by Nokia's board.

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post #74 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

12th April 1912 - The Titanic sailed through calm waters.
14th April 1912 - 11:40 p.m. - The Titanic Struck the iceberg
15th April 1912\t12:00 a.m. - They engineers insist the ship is unsinkable
15th April 1912\t2.17 am\t - The last radio message was sent. The captain announced 'Every man for himself.
15th April 1912\t2.18 am - They appoint a new captain from Microsoft.

Nokia's survival requires a return to profitability. The low end devices make for plenty of activity but precious little profit.

The only option is to create a new product for the high end. But such a product demands they abandon their current path and create a massively attractive product that appeals to a mass consumer audience.

I don't think this is possible. Because Microsoft, Nokia and Sony all share a common weakness in that product development is led by engineers. The tail should not wag the dog.

C.

I beg to differ, product development is being led by consensus influenced by what uber geeks wants and not what the ordinary consumer would buy.
post #75 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Likely they will sell it for a huge profit. Why would they make any other choice with such a successful venture?

Android might have survived, and even flourished, if Google had only stuck to the Java standard. But no, they messed with it and created their own VM. In clear violation of the Java license agreement (and if you're not 100% compliant, you are in violation according the language of the agreement.)

Oracle's lawsuit has merit. Android's near-perfect clone of Java is a perfect violation of the license agreement and Sun has already successfully sued Microsoft for a similar infraction. So let's see: clear evidence of an infraction + legal precedent = conviction.

Larry Ellison won't be taking any out-of-court settlement cash. He wants Android off the market, and that's what he's going to get. Good thing for Google that they have a backup plan in Chrome OS.

Sergey Brin said in public (at Google I/O this past May) that Chrome OS is Google's future. Boy was he right! Give the man a cookie.

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post #76 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

I beg to differ, product development is being led by consensus influenced by what uber geeks wants and not what the ordinary consumer would buy.

I sort of agree. But I think the opinions, the values and ultimately the taste of engineers is all too visible in the final products.

The problem with engineers is they are smart and really don't mind complexity and weak aesthetics. It is part of the ability of an engineer to cope with and ignore weak design.

The consumer market is far more sensitive to weak design. Who knew?

C.
post #77 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Larry Ellison won't be taking any out-of-court settlement cash. He wants Android off the market, and that's what he's going to get.

I assumed Google would just pay a settlement. Why do you think Ellison is going to play tough?

C.
post #78 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I am puzzled about how Google intend to monetize Android.
We are even seeing Android devices which have Bing as the only search engine!

As far as I can see, Android is neither a loss maker or a profit maker for Google.

C.

That is what their AdMod acquisition was all about. Mobile ads. My guess is, at some point, they will also start to charge a license fee (perhaps for an 'Android-plus' version of some sort).

Also, unless you believe that human capital and R&D is free, it is, at the moment a loss-maker for Google.
post #79 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Nope. I'm talking about people who have never sat on a BOD of a publicly-traded company, but who nevertheless think that they are more qualified to hire a CEO than those who do.

If the posters on this forum had to be qualified in anything to have an opinion .... we'd never hear from you!
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post #80 of 203
I shed a tear for Kallasvuo, as he floats gently down to earth in his golden parachute.

The easy solution is of course to copy Apple. It takes no imagination, and will probably net quick returns.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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