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Apple projected to ship 130M iOS devices in 2014 as Android hits 259M - Page 4

post #121 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Apple's first priority is to deliver the best user experience possible. Apple's historically high margins have enabled them to invest vast amounts in R&D. We see the results in terms of a quality user experience.

People saw what Apple makes.
They USED what Apple makes.
Wondered WHY no other company seems capable of delivering a similar end-to-end quality experience.
They simply got tired of crappy hardware, crappy software, malware, etc., etc., etc..

What was the alternative to "the standard"? Apple. PERIOD.

The goal of any business is profit at the risk of a loss-- called the profit motive.

Everything else is secondary!

You can Yahoo or Bing the phrase for defiinitions-- here's one:

Quote:
In the free market economy, the profit motive is the ultimate purpose of a commercial enterprise, to earn a profit. The profit motive notion is closely related to the concept of self-interest. Adam Smith originally described the workings of the free market not in terms of profit motive, but as a by-product of individual self-interest. Under this philosophy, the profit motive is axiomatic, in that the only way a company can further the self-interests of its shareholders is to earn a profit. The profit motive is merely a proxy for providing income to shareholders. As an extremely focused definition of business purpose, the profit motive engenders considerable criticism of capitalism generally and multinational corporations in particular. These critics point out the profit motive apparently allows no room for the interests of the customer, the employee, or society and the environment, unless those interests happen to align with what the profit motive dictates. Perhaps the profit motive is a bit like democracy: the worst corporate objective, except for all the others that have been tried.

http://www.investorglossary.com/profit-motive.htm.

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post #122 of 248
What the hell. Oh...oh Gartner...you get an "F". "F" for speaking bullshit.
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post #123 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The goal of any business is profit at the risk of a loss-- called the profit motive.

Everything else is secondary!

You can Yahoo or Bing the phrase for defiinitions-- here's one:

http://www.investorglossary.com/profit-motive.htm.

But it is equally true for many businesses that unless the goal of achieving the business' 'secondary goal' (I have phrased this to make you happy) which in Apple's case would be to create the the best computing experience on the planet, the 'profit motive' just wouldn't be enough to make it worth while bothering.
post #124 of 248
They tried that when Steve was in the wilderness. Apple released many models to fill store shelves so there would be more display space to compete with the PCs. Steve nixed that when he came back.
post #125 of 248
So, this is going to be another case of Apple vs PC? With the closed Apple system vs the open PC system? We all know how that turned out...
post #126 of 248
Well, I for one don't care about anyone's projections. Just because they graphed a trend doesn't mean anything. All of this is just speculative data for investors to base their decisions, but most of it will end up being wrong. The first person in the thread already pegged the relevance of this article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Well, I for one care a bit more about Gartner's projections than your projections.

Got anything behind your analysis that beats the data Gartner relied upon?
post #127 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The goal of any business is profit at the risk of a loss-- called the profit motive.

Everything else is secondary!

I would have to disagree with this. A business has to make a profit (or continually attract fresh investment capital) to stay in business, but that doesn't have to be its, or its owners/top executives, primary motivation. For example, many people start businesses to "be their own boss". Sure, they have to figure out a way to make some money so they can do that, but it's not necessarily their primary motivation. People start businesses because they are really in to something and want to be able to pursue it full time. Again, yes, they have to make some money, but pursuing their interest is their primary motivation. (Sometimes, people even accept huge reductions in their income to do this.)

There are all sorts of motivations for people running businesses. They may have shareholders to keep happy along the way, but that doesn't have to be their primary motivation. Power, empire building, avoiding the rat race and, sure, desire for money are some among many possible motivations, so why not to change the world?
post #128 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple is projected to sell 130 million iOS-based mobile devices per year by 2014, but both Google Android and Nokia Symbian are expected to each double that amount, according to Gartner.

This is such bullshit. The only way you can make prediction about sales of devices is to know what devices will be selling.

Can anyone actually guess how many iOS devices will be on the Market in 2014?

BTW, the iPhone sells at 4 million a month now, the iPad is a 2 and the iPod touch at 3. That 103 million units per year right now.

So - shipping rates per year so far:
2007 - >10 million (iPhone + iPod touch)
2008 - >20 million (iPhone 3G+ iPod touch)
2009 - >40 million (iPhone 3G+iPhone 3GS +iPod touch)
2010 - >100 million (iPhone 3GS + iPhone 4 + iPod touch + iPad)
2011 - ?
2012 - ?
2013 - ?
2014 - =130 million WTF Gartner
post #129 of 248
You have to wonder if this Analysts take into consideration how things can change thru the years.
If you just analize what is happening now and multiply a little for the coming years, you can just place numbers.

I could give it a try and guess to.

Android 30%
iOS 20%
Google Chrome 15%
(HP/Sony) WebOS 10%
Nokia w/Win7 5%
Nokia w/others 5%
Others 15%

That's just the rest of the world.

China will close there doors, and make their own.
PRC/OS 60%

That was easy. (Next thing you know Octopus will be guessing soccer matches)
post #130 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

This "analysis" is already worthless because it doesn't account for Windows Phone 7 at all. Windows Phone 7 is the first viable direct competition Android is getting. RIM, Apple, and Nokia are all competing with the "HW/SW single vendor" model. Windows Mobile 6 does use the Android model (SW vendor different from HW vendor) but it was never a touch OS, unlike WP7.

I am confident you will see at least some deflection on the part of the HW makers from Android to WP7.

They do account for WP7 but the prediction is based on absolutely zero information and appears to simply assume a continued downward trendline. Which is completely idiotic unless they truly believe MS doesn't have the resources or will simply roll over.

The key is that MS isn't fighting Google on its home turf (search) but in an arena where it is well equipped to fight: operating systems, developer support and specifically gaming development support. You're going to see a ton of indie games for WP7 because of XNA support. There are detailed blogs on game development for WP7 already.

This presentation at Mix is very good as a high level intro to WP7 game coding.

http://live.visitmix.com/MIX10/Sessions/CL22
post #131 of 248
They really need more than one phone on the market right now. Frankly for the same reasons that they have more than one iPod. That is to serve different needs.

They are slowly moving in that direction. In reality the Touch is now more or less a WiFi based VoIP phone. Obviously somewhat limited because it is Facetime only with Apple supported hardware/software. But still it is a device serving a different need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

What is with the market share obsession? Apple don't care about market share, they care about brand awareness and profitability.

This is BS. It is very clear that Apple thinks about market share, but not without profitability. Brand awareness is something you create to get the other two. Market share means a lot to Apple as it helps a great deal when it comes to competitive even aggressive pricing on Apples part. In fact it has helped so much that many of the Macs have remained reasonably priced over the last couple of years. Not I said reasonably priced not bargain basement. Market share has helped with software costs too. Mac OS/X updates have gotten cheaper for one. Market share has also given them confidence to be very aggressive in pricing iPad software, for example look at Numbers or Pages for iPad.
Quote:
I find it incredible that a company which produce only one phone a year can have even this much market share - when you count the number of devices out there that run Android compared to the one device that is iPhone, then iOS shouldn't even register as a percentage.

Have you even looked seriously at the mess that is Android?
Quote:
I don't think Apple have too much worry about.

Nope not at the moment. However they need to get the ball in gear or the car rolling with products that more fully take advantage of their initiatives. In some ways they are slippin up here. IPad should have been rev'd already to support Facetime. Beyound that the new AppleTV is a big joke. Why they did not integrate FaceTime there is beyound me. AppleTV looks like a product built to meet a price point and not a vision.

So maybe they don't have to worry at the moment but they need to continually adjust stadegey. More products would help a great deal.
post #132 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

If the stock holders in Apple really wanted to maximise their profits they would demand a dividend. Otherwise their profit is worthless.

How do you figure that?
post #133 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

But it is equally true for many businesses that unless the goal of achieving the business' 'secondary goal' (I have phrased this to make you happy) which in Apple's case would be to create the the best computing experience on the planet, the 'profit motive' just wouldn't be enough to make it worth while bothering.


For many businesses?

Name 5 businesses for which the profit motive just wouldn't be enough to make it worth while bothering.

And no, I'm not talking about a rich housewife's hobby boutique where she loses money every month. Real businesses. With real investors. Investors who want to make money.

Name 5 please. There are many, right?
post #134 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

<But when you have a CEO with an ego as big as the North American continent you just don't do that.>

for those old enough to remember this analogy.
ted williams had an ego large enough to exceed the size of north america and he still managed to be one of the all time best ball players, ever! and that goes for practically every successful business person. they have egos that just wont quit.

...And the fans cheered when he spit at them

If it were't for two wars, he would have been the greatest baseball player of all time-- instead of: maybe the greatest baseball player of all time.

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post #135 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by juandl View Post

You have to wonder if this Analysts take into consideration how things can change thru the years.


Naw. They probably didn't think of that.
post #136 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

<But when you have a CEO with an ego as big as the North American continent you just don't do that.>

for those old enough to remember this analogy.
ted williams had an ego large enough to exceed the size of north america and he still managed to be one of the all time best ball players, ever! and that goes for practically every successful business person. they have egos that just wont quit.

is not the size of a certain CEO's ego, it's the simple fact that it threatens the over-inflated ego of a certain spelunker in these posts who wants any ego close in size to his taken out and shot. To the average person, but most especially to the mildly sociopathic geek or blog contributor, who tend to spend more time in front of a screen than in front of a Board of Directors, or a collection of development team leads, the ability to turn a business vision into a compelling business success is very threatening and must be viewed negatively in order to feel good about themselves. Simple really - the biggest ego-detractors (and usually the one who also dive for the fanboi epithet the quickest) are the least secure, least likely to be running multi-billion dollar businesses and loudest in decrying anyone who does.
post #137 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantinian View Post

This is such bullshit. The only way you can make prediction about sales of devices is to know what devices will be selling.

Can anyone actually guess how many iOS devices will be on the Market in 2014?

BTW, the iPhone sells at 4 million a month now, the iPad is a 2 and the iPod touch at 3. That 103 million units per year right now.

So - shipping rates per year so far:
2007 - >10 million (iPhone + iPod touch)
2008 - >20 million (iPhone 3G+ iPod touch)
2009 - >40 million (iPhone 3G+iPhone 3GS +iPod touch)
2010 - >100 million (iPhone 3GS + iPhone 4 + iPod touch + iPad)
2011 - ?
2012 - ?
2013 - ?
2014 - =130 million WTF Gartner

This is interesting, and points to something that was obscured in this AppleInsider article: Was Gartner talking about "iOS devices" or smart phones? The article about this on Ars seems to say smart phones, which would make these numbers make some sense. The article here says iOS devices, which would include a whole bunch of stuff that runs iOS but doesn't make a phone call. I haven't seen the study, but most "analysts" compare smart phones to smart phones when talking numbers.
post #138 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

iOS based iPod Nano is good indication they are headed in that direction. They have to get people used to the idea first that iOS isn't just a full fledged iPhone thing, that the software isn't really the dictator of device features. Once people get used to seeing iOS on just about every Apple device then they will stop trying to imagine Apple TVs that operate like iPhones connected to a TV, or iPods that always come with built in video capabilities just because they have a touch screen.

If Apple releases a lower-end phone it would most likely be something like an iPod Nano with phone capabilities. Something where the phone isn't expected to be either smart nor feature rich. Something where it does a few tasks, really well, and for a low price.

A phone the size of an iPod Nano... Interesting idea! Clipped to your shirt!

If Apple could pull that off, what would be the other device that people would carry with them?

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post #139 of 248
Trying to predict a market that moves this fast any more that a few months out is pointless...

I'll make my own guesses and we will see how they pan out...

1) RIM is preferred on the corporate level and this will support their current market share. I do not see this changing in the next few years....

2) iOS is growing strong and is very profitable. I do not see this changing in the next few years.

3) Android is growing strong and is making a lot of money for several companies. I do not see this changing in the next few years

4) Releasing the iPhone on Verizon/Sprint/T Mobile would cut into Android sales about 20%... ( Just a guess )

5) I think Win Mobile 7 is going to be too little too late... ( It is a opinion and I fully admit I could be wrong )

6) Google's Chrome OS is dying and will likely be killed off by it's own creation.... Android... Kind of strange when you think about it...

7) Fragmentation is not going to doom Android...Google does have a tendency to send stuff out half baked, but they are also a code generating machine and can fix rather severe flaws rather quickly. Early adopters do get screwed sometimes by Google...

8) All of the ranting on these tech boards do not alter the sales of any products by any measurable amount....
post #140 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC View Post

I'm sorry but as someone who knows about Gartner since the late 90's, I would say they they've never been right about anything they've projected. Very rarely do they get it right. When they started they had kids right out of school who don't know their elbows from a hole in the ground make up projections.

So, I would bet with almost 100% certainty come 2014, these numbers will be way off....

No... they were on the money with at least 1 number... 2014

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post #141 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

But it is equally true for many businesses that unless the goal of achieving the business' 'secondary goal' (I have phrased this to make you happy) which in Apple's case would be to create the the best computing experience on the planet, the 'profit motive' just wouldn't be enough to make it worth while bothering.

I agree (except you are rephrasing to make the investors happy)!

I was CEO/COO of a small corporation! Our corporate objectives:

1) return a fair profit to our investors
2) provide the best possible products and services to our customers
3) have fun

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post #142 of 248
I wonder. Is Android making any money? Or is it just saving money for all the non OS makers.
That is the only reason why the other hardware makers could even dream of competing with Apple.
It already cost HP plenty of bucks buying WebOS just to TRY something different. (I personally think
Palm's OS is the second best out there.)
I am sure Google is just donating Androids OS to any and everyone, just waiting for the advertising
bonanza.
No one will be able to go head to head with Apple in the whole shebang.
post #143 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I would have to disagree with this. A business has to make a profit (or continually attract fresh investment capital) to stay in business, but that doesn't have to be its, or its owners/top executives, primary motivation. For example, many people start businesses to "be their own boss". Sure, they have to figure out a way to make some money so they can do that, but it's not necessarily their primary motivation. People start businesses because they are really in to something and want to be able to pursue it full time. Again, yes, they have to make some money, but pursuing their interest is their primary motivation. (Sometimes, people even accept huge reductions in their income to do this.)

There are all sorts of motivations for people running businesses. They may have shareholders to keep happy along the way, but that doesn't have to be their primary motivation. Power, empire building, avoiding the rat race and, sure, desire for money are some among many possible motivations, so why not to change the world?

I respect what you say. Have you ever started a business? I have... for many of the reasons you mention.

But when it comes down to it, a business needs a single overriding goal. That goal must be profit. Without profit, none of the other things are possible-- things like a "hobby" product, or a brazen entry into an established market.

You can't deliver the best products (or even mediocre products) if you don't make enough profit to stay in business. There are short and long term strategies, but the goal of each must be profit!

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post #144 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

They really need more than one phone on the market right now. Frankly for the same reasons that they have more than one iPod. That is to serve different needs.

They are slowly moving in that direction. In reality the Touch is now more or less a WiFi based VoIP phone. Obviously somewhat limited because it is Facetime only with Apple supported hardware/software. But still it is a device serving a different need.


This is BS. It is very clear that Apple thinks about market share, but not without profitability. Brand awareness is something you create to get the other two. Market share means a lot to Apple as it helps a great deal when it comes to competitive even aggressive pricing on Apples part. In fact it has helped so much that many of the Macs have remained reasonably priced over the last couple of years. Not I said reasonably priced not bargain basement. Market share has helped with software costs too. Mac OS/X updates have gotten cheaper for one. Market share has also given them confidence to be very aggressive in pricing iPad software, for example look at Numbers or Pages for iPad.

Have you even looked seriously at the mess that is Android?


Nope not at the moment. However they need to get the ball in gear or the car rolling with products that more fully take advantage of their initiatives. In some ways they are slippin up here. IPad should have been rev'd already to support Facetime. Beyound that the new AppleTV is a big joke. Why they did not integrate FaceTime there is beyound me. AppleTV looks like a product built to meet a price point and not a vision.

So maybe they don't have to worry at the moment but they need to continually adjust stadegey. More products would help a great deal.

I support everything you say-- especially the last 2 paragraphs;

The iPad must support FaceTime. Note: this does not necessarily mean a built-in camera.

The ATV needs to be fleshed out to support apps-- especially games, and Family FaceTime.

It disturbs me that it has [will have] taken 11 months to bring iOS 4 features to the iPad.

.
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post #145 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

What is with the market share obsession? Apple don't care about market share, they care about brand awareness and profitability.

I find it incredible that a company which produce only one phone a year can have even this much market share - when you count the number of devices out there that run Android compared to the one device that is iPhone, then iOS shouldn't even register as a percentage.

I don't think Apple have too much worry about.

Market share is important, but what market? Google can't claim much revenue much less profit from Android for the near future. And how many of these Android devices will be Marketplace accessible?

Look:
Google/Open Handset Alliance require 3G access for a device to have Marketplace access:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/google-aug...t-unauthorized

...this means recurring monthly charge for each device!!

GoogleVerizon is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the consumer and developer here. Android on TV, watches, media players will either be majorly gimped or massively costly in subscription fees.

Ultimately this will be self-correcting, and that's why this piece of drivel analysis from Gartner (best spin/PR money can buy!) is not meaningful. The iPad(wifi) and iPod Touch really have no equals now, or even when the Android notebooks hit the shelves. Either the notebooks will be gimped (these are not the droids you are looking for), or be prohibitively expensive in comparison to the iPad/iPod.
post #146 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

The iPhone is already on multiple carriers in most countries it's available. The big one of course where it isn't is the US. Even if (or I should say when) it goes multiple carrier here, Android is still going to outsell it. It won't be about carrier availability but quantity of models. Gazillion Android models to 1.

FYI, iPhone in Japan is locked, and the worst is it's locked to the carrier that has so so signal and coverage. Yet it dominates the market with 72% smartphone market share. Even Sony is burried in its home country. RIM is no contest here (owned only by some old geezer expats). Nokia's dumb phones are hopeless against local makers (Toshiba, Sanyo, Sony, etc), let alone its smartphones.
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post #147 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The goal of any business is profit at the risk of a loss-- called the profit motive.

Emphasis changed.

Unless you are "too big to fail", then there is no risk, and the tax payer bails you out.
post #148 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Emphasis changed.

Unless you are "too big to fail", then there is no risk, and the tax payer bails you out.

Sad... we saved the few, at the risk of the many!

... and may have learned nothing in the process...

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post #149 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I'm of the opinion after years of watching and being involved in the tech industry that people who make forecasts on the technology market that are 4 years into the future are either mad, stupid or both.

Or visionary yet perceived as mad because visionless people can't understand them.
post #150 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

How do you figure that?

For a man who seems to know business you are asking a simple question. Were I the sole owner of a company the profits would be mine. Since the Apple shareholders would benefit from getting a dividend, but are not getting a dividend, it is safe to assume that the profit motive - which is all about getting money in the owner's hands, not keeping it in the company - is not what drives either Apple, or it's shareholders.

Here is something that Apple could do to maximise profitability.

1) Sell windows machines. Using their brand and industrial design these machines would sell.
2) Lose IOS and adopt Android. The cost of Android is free, and Apple could trade on it's undoubted industrial design skills to stay ahead of the competition while losing all the development costs.

That is what a profit maximising company would do. It is not what Apple are going to do, the motivation that Apple has is not profit but market share. There is another ideology about owning the whole widget ( which I think misguided) but all the engineers, all the managers, all the executives in Apple want to win the OS wars in the mobile space against Google.

Human beings are not that simple.
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post #151 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

A phone the size of an iPod Nano... Interesting idea! Clipped to your shirt!

If Apple could pull that off, what would be the other device that people would carry with them?

.

That would be a very interesting engineering feat! But it would all have to be voice commands. It would be a cool little device but very hard to use......

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post #152 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

For a man who seems to know business you are asking a simple question. Were I the sole owner of a company the profits would be mine. Since the Apple shareholders would benefit from getting a dividend, but are not getting a dividend, it is safe to assume that the profit motive - which is all about getting money in the owner's hands, not keeping it in the company - is not what drives either Apple, or it's shareholders.

Here is something that Apple could do to maximise profitability.

1) Sell windows machines. Using their brand and industrial design these machines would sell.
2) Lose IOS and adopt Android. The cost of Android is free, and Apple could trade on it's undoubted industrial design skills to stay ahead of the competition while losing all the development costs.

That is what a profit maximising company would do. It is not what Apple are going to do, the motivation that Apple has is not profit but market share. There is another ideology about owning the whole widget ( which I think misguided) but all the engineers, all the managers, all the executives in Apple want to win the OS wars in the mobile space against Google.

Human beings are not that simple.


I think you are wrong on several levels.

I am currently an Apple customer an Apple Developer and an Apple investor.

In the past, I have been an Apple reseller (retail dealer), Apple supplier, and worked together on a joint project with Apple.

There are different types of investments -- Apple is considered a growth as opposed to an income investment.

Also, there are short term goals and long term goals. Apple tends to view the long term, rather than maximize profits for instant gratification.

I can assure you that Apple is now, and always has been motivated by the profit motive.

Were Apple to do what you propose, it would be the first step to going out of business.

.
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post #153 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think you are wrong on several levels.

I am currently an Apple customer an Apple Developer and an Apple investor.

In the past, I have been an Apple reseller (retail dealer), Apple supplier, and worked together on a joint project with Apple project.

There are different types of investments -- Apple is considered a growth as opposed to an income investment.

Also, there are short term goals and long term goals. Apple tends to view the long term, rather than maximize profits for instant gratification.

I can assure you that Apple is now, and always has been motivated by the profit motive.

.

You didnt really take my two thought experiments into account. Would it be cheaper to lose the iOS team and make money on handsets carrying Android. WOuld it make sense to use the Apple brand to sell Windows machine.

What would a profit maximising robot suggest that Steve Jobs do?

The idea the profit is the sole motivator, or even the secondary motivator of Jobs is nonsense.

He never mentions profit, or Apple's stock price at his events. He talks about the product.

Like any other business they cant survive a loss for very long, however that does not mean they mean to always maximise quarterly profit.

For that reason I think they will reduce margins on the iPhone, possibly by keeping a lower level model around after the refresh next year ( possibly the iPhone 3GS), as they have on the iPod.


Apple can win this iOs war. The idea that they need to licence is old school nonsense. It is all made by the same manufacturers anyway.
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post #154 of 248
The Gartner numbers either are wrong or are only counting certain types of units.

iPhone is running about 8-9 million units going into the Christmas period. If flat, that equals about 32-36 million iPhones in 2010. iPad was about 3.2 million in the first quarter of release. That projects to 9-10 million without accounting for new markets and catching up to demand. iPod has been spitballed at about 4-5 million per quarter or 16-20 million more per year. All told that's about 57-66 million iOS units in 2010 without accounting for growth and the historically stronger Christmas quarter.

Gartner has the number at 41 million. That would seem to include only iPhone not all of iOS.

PS: If you use the same percentage increases for 2011 and 2012 you're looking at about 186 million iOS units. But since analysts make this stuff up anyway, there is no saying they have any idea what to project into the future.
post #155 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

it is safe to assume that the profit motive - ... - is not what drives either Apple, or it's shareholders.

The profit motive does not drive Apple shareholders?
post #156 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

The profit motive does not drive Apple shareholders?

Is there much point in actually repeating what I said back to me?

Let me repeat. The profit motive does not drive Apple's shareholder because they do not get to see any profit - the company does not pay dividends. I have said that twice. Is that not too much? Do you like banging your head against a wall, because I dont.

Investors may be driven by future capital appreciation.... which isnt the same. If margins are reduced and profit sacrificed for future growth, so be it. Most would stay in the game ( not that Apple's share price has any effect on their on going business as they dont need to go to the market for money).
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post #157 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Is there much point in actually repeating what I said back to me?

Let me repeat. The profit motive does not drive Apple's shareholder because they do not get to see any profit - the company does not pay dividends. I have said that twice. Is that not too much?

Ah. You are using "profit" in an unusual manner. OK.

Both Apple and its shareholders seek to end up with more money than they started with, but neither cares about making a "profit". I get it now.
post #158 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

This is the fanboi's response. Unfortunately this is probably the attitude in the board room at Apple. And this attitude will bite the Apple's ass in a really big way.

One really easy way to increase iPhone sales is to...get ready, you knew someone was gonna bring this up...open the phone to other carriers. The public wants it, it will make everyone money and it's a good business decision.

But when you have a CEO with an ego as big as the North American continent you just don't do that. And if your a rabid fanboi you support that decision.

So live with the results.

Give me a break. The only reason the iPhone was locked to one carrier was because SJ was not willing to cave in to the usual carrier demands of forcing carrier solutions onto their customers. AT&T were the only ones who would meet SJ's demands and as a result a new paradigm shift was made in mobile services. Android, backed by the worlds largest Ad brokerage company, is now handing that power back to the carries (thanks heaps..not). I went with an iPhone because of what they have managd to do and what they continue to do (unfied solid platform and no bloatware). There is no fanboism involved in this decision....just good common consumer judgement.
post #159 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

You didnt really take my two thought experiments into account. Would it be cheaper to lose the iOS team and make money on handsets carrying Android. WOuld it make sense to use the Apple brand to sell Windows machine.

What would a profit maximising robot suggest that Steve Jobs do?

The idea the profit is the sole motivator, or even the secondary motivator of Jobs is nonsense.

He never mentions profit, or Apple's stock price at his events. He talks about the product.

Like any other business they cant survive a loss for very long, however that does not mean they mean to always maximise quarterly profit.

For that reason I think they will reduce margins on the iPhone, possibly by keeping a lower level model around after the refresh next year ( possibly the iPhone 3GS), as they have on the iPod.


Apple can win this iOs war. The idea that they need to licence is old school nonsense. It is all made by the same manufacturers anyway.

Are you at least 32 years old? I have been observing Apple for 32 years.

Your "thought experiments" are nonsense!

Apple management is better qualified than you or I to decide what Apple needs to do and when.

.
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #160 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Apple's goal is to make as much profit as possible. Nothing else is a goal, but only a means to the goal of maximum profits.

Apple is not a foundation or a social club or a fraternal organization. They are a business.

You obviously understand nothing about Apple, marketing or business! Apple's goal is not maximum profits, it is merely an end result. Their goal, as stated repeatedly, is to give consumers the best possible experience, and to do it across every touch point - sales, service, usability, etc etc. That is what drives them, it is what drives consumers to their products, and it is what drives their incredible profits.
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