Consumer Reports condemns end of iPhone 4 free case program - Page 4

I tend to hold it pretty tightly when talking on it (especially when walking) for fear of dropping it and smashing the screen, so 'natural' could well include a tight grip. Certainly, for someone that might hold it in a more limp-wristed manner, a 'natural' grip might be looser.

Actually scratch that. I just did another test, in case. Holding it in a specific position near the top of the phone to get a base line (-82db and -79db) then moving to a very loose 'natural' grip with the phone in the same place and orientation. Two attempts. First went from -82db to 102db. The second went from 80db to -89db. No where close to the 1.9db loss reported for the 3GS.

I’ve asked Anand to retest the iPhone 4 along with other phones with the new firmware, and now that FieldTest Mode is back on v4.1.

Doing my own quick and dirty tests I went from between −103 and −99 dB to -89 and −71 dB when touching the “3G Spot”. That is iimprovement of 14 to 28 dB from touching the bad spot on my iPhone 4, which is similar to the results Anand got when bridging the antennas when measuring WiFi. Because of this I’ve also requested that the tests be done in different places as RF is a tricky beast and one area can cause a drop in signal strength while another can cause an increase.

In any case, it’s clear the iPhone 4 is an improvement over previous phones.

Lot's of variables, it could be the frequency in your area that is causing a more db loss. 1900 MHz loses power easier then 850 MHz. That's why to do an accurate comparison test, you have to test all the phones in the same area using the same frequency band.

Not in the real world.

I'm guessing cars and electronics are the things you know most about? Trust me, they are especially egregious with everything they test. Other than that, I agree that CR testing is entirely worthless, has been for years, that they are a fraud perpetrated on uninformed consumers, and that the whole iP4 thing has just exposed them for the subscription whores that they are. Probably, they are hoping for larger bonuses this year.

(For anyone claiming they are unbiased because they are a non-profit that doesn't accept advertising, yes, CR is a non-profit, but the people who work there are not, and their pay obviously depends on the number of subscribers, which is all they are really focused on at this point, if ever.)

You mean not in the alternate universe of your mind.

So, are you a private troll or in someone's employ? I wouldn't ask except for the fact that you seem to be a single issue poster who pops up in almost every thread related to iP4 antenna design, and no others.

Agreed. Since the release of the iPhone on AT&T I've heard non-stop about how terrible AT&T service is and how wonderful Verizon service is. Bogus, both of them had their strengths & weaknesses when iPhone was released but my AT&T service has gotten better while my friends with Verizon have been noticing more & more dropped calls. Even with that I'm inclined to believe my experience won't expand to everyone.

There are so many technical aspects to cell service people simply don't understand, yet know nothing reporters love to shoot off at the mouth about how crappy one service is and how glorious another is. People just need to stop generalizing & realize that AT&T has some great service areas and some crappy ones, as does Verizon. Pick the service and device that works best in your area and you'll be a happier person. If you are picking service provider, ask some people you trust how often they experience dropped calls in your area, most of us have one or 2 friends who complain about where they have issues with their cell service. Look at coverage maps, some cities will have excellent map coverage with little pockets of no coverage. If you live near a no or low coverage pocket you probably shouldn't go with that service.

Your mistake, in logic and understanding, is to believe that two things to which the same word may be applied are equivalent. Obviously, this is incorrect.

Take two things, a red car and a red herring. According to your logic, since the word 'red' applies to both, they are the same. But, clearly a red car is very different from a red herring, and a red herring is very different from a red car.

Now, let us look at 'censorship'. This is a very broad term that simply means "suppression of information". It can apply to me choosing not to use the word 'idiot' in describing someone, but instead saying that he is, "having trouble understanding." I have "censored" myself. As pointed out, Apple has very specific terms of use for it's user-to-user support forums. Posts that do not adhere to those terms of use violate the contract the user enters into with Apple for the use of the forums and are removed. Apple has "censored" the forums so that the posts there do adhere to the terms of use. The posts that CR is not making public are not subject to any such terms of use as that they must agree with CR or some other criteria. CR is "censoring" the posts in an arbitrary fashion, according to guidelines that are not made public.

How is this different? Well, first, anyone who has their comments removed from Apple's support forums knows exactly why they were removed: because they did not adhere to the terms of use that person agreed to. A third party, noticing that certain posts have been removed, will also know why they were removed. It's an honest, consistent and transparent policy.

On the other hand, CR has not publicly established any terms of use saying that only agreeable comments will be approved. These comments are kept from public view, with no indication that they might be, giving to the reader an entirely false impression of how people are reacting to CR's statements. It's not at all transparent or honest in CR to do this; it may be consistent with their usual behavior.

So, two instances of "censorship", but two very different cases. Apple is being honest and transparent. CR is being dishonest and deceptive. Thus, even though the same term applies to both cases, they are only similar in the most superficial and meaningless way. While you may not see the distinction, or choose to ignore it, it's rather obvious to anyone with an intelligent interest that there is no commonality in the cases, and that your claim that Apple does it too, is not only mistaken in the particular, but very much not a red car, but that other red thing.

I don't. Not since the late 1970's, when I learned about audio equipment, and then read their reviews. That was plenty enough to convince me.

For stuff like toasters, I'd trust them. For anything more complex or subtle, I think their methodology and their weighting system are both fatally flawed.

They actually feel that stereo speakers can be summed up in a single number which represents quality. They also tend to rate crap products with lots of features higher than quality gear which sounds good and will satisfy the buyer for a long time.

I don't take them seriously for anything that might have an enthusiast press with valid testing. Their tests of coffee, for example, are laughable.

There are more serious issues with iPhone 4 than the blown-out-of-proportion 'antennagate' issue.

Example:

Manufacturing quality - seems like there is an increasing discrepancies with the quality. More and more new iPhone 4 are found to exhibit some of the following defects:

- 'blue-tint' camera effect,
- micro-gap between the glass surface and the body,
- warm (more yellowish) or cold (more bluish) retina display

These are just some of the common complaints from the fast increasing iPhone user-base in the country I reside in. The user-base is approx. 1:3 based on last released statistics.

1) Do you have a link for these released stats?

2) "Antennagate" has unfortunately made real issues go unnoticed.

3) I haven't heard about any of the issues you stated above. The camera SW did have a low light issue that required you guess when to take the snapshot in order to no get a yellowing effect, but that was resolved in v4.1. It's possible the new firmware is over compensating.

4) The new display is adhered to the glass so if you or anyone you know has a gap between them get a new model immediately. Previously there was mention of glue not drying completely but that doesn't sound like this issue an even that is unacceptable to me a I expect a finished product not one that will 'cure' weeks later.

There are much more factors affecting cell phone performance than just raw signal strength. Noise-signal ratio came to mind easily.

The iPhone antenna design is best characterized as a design compromise. It's trading 20db signal strength on the low end for much better reception when the signal strength is high enough.

Based on my first hand experience, I'd say that CR has accurately reported this issue and I fully understand why they would decline to endorse the product. I have owned my ip4 for about three weeks, and can consistently reproduce the signal degradation issue on my phone in "weak" signal areas when it is not in a case. Just to be clear, weak does not mean driving out to BFE for a phone call; I'm in the DC metro area. I do think that Jobs was less that forthright during the press conference and that Apple is fully aware that a design flaw exists.

I did not set out to prove that this issue existed, and at first didn't think my phone was affected. It wasn't until I experienced dropped calls and really bad reception that I paid attention to the way I held the phone. Changing my grip to an "approved" method has mitigated the effects of the signal drop. Without a case, I need to be careful only to grasp the top half of the phone body (which is awkward for me). With a case installed, I can make calls without issue.

It is unfortunate that this topic has spurred the vitriol from Apple detractors and fans alike. Between exaggerations of the problems and flat-out denials, it is hard for a buyer to truly gauge the extent issue. The bottom line is that a problem exists; if you do not want to use a case, then this issue may be an annoyance that you need to live with. Ironically, I am thrilled with every aspect of the iPhone 4...except the phone.

No, what they've done is jump on a bandwagon to garner publicity, which they hope to translate into increased subscriber base and, thus, higher salaries for themselves. It's not like they actually "uncovered" this issue in their testing. Nor is it the case that they have tested other phones for this phenomenon. (Obviously not, since they remain willfully ignorant of all the phones that have pretty much the same issue -- unless you are one of those people who love distinctions without differences, and like to shout, "One finger!" from the rooftops as your rallying cry. What does it matter if it's one finger or one hand, no one can hold a phone with one finger.)

Now they've backed themselves into a very uncomfortable position where to be honest with their subscribers, they have to admit that they overreacted. But, if they admit they overreacted they compromise the (misplaced) faith those subscribers have in them. So now they are stuck pretending, to save face, that there's this huge problem that doesn't really exist. Sad, really, and one has to wonder with how many other products they have played this same, essentially dishonest, game.

CR did replicate the poor behavior in their testing. CR wasn't the original discoverer, but that's irrelevant. CR reaches a different cross-section of consumers than AnandTech, people who have paid to be informed. CR is doing their job and, in my opinion, doing it well.


You're totally off base. All it takes is one finger or a light touch in the wrong location on the iPhone 4 to knock its reception down a lot.


Oh, pulleaze.

LOL, you sure do have your head pretty deep in the sand !!! Funny how many other knowledgeable independent sources show the iPhone has an unique issue. It's called antenna detuning. Due to the flawed antenna design. Completely different then attenuation that of course all phones have to varying degrees. You sure do like spinning facts !!! Why ? Oh and of course when someone disagrees with you, you resort to being childish and calling them names instead of having a mature discussion. It tells me a lot about you. Cheers !!

I've read some of these comments and it's deja vu all over again. I can't believe this debate is still raging. The iPhone 4 is selling like hotcakes and from what I can tell the only people who care about the antenna design are CR and a few AI whiners. Come on guys give it a rest. All this article did was stir the hornets nest. I'm just patiently waiting for my Verizon iPhone in January. \

Of course CR should test all phones in the same manner, but I haven't seen any legitimate evidence to suggest that CR applied biased testing on the ip4 (although this claim is often repeated). A problem does exist with this iPhone's antenna. Although you may not agree, CR is well within their rights to withhold an endorsement of a product with which they can demonstrate a repeatable flaw. They are also correct to criticize Apple for ending a program that addresses this design flaw.

The signal issue is an annoyance that detracts from an otherwise outstanding device. My recommendation to prospective ip4 buyers: I love my iPhone and it is a great device, but it needs a case to handle calls reliably.

BTW, I don't read CR.

Is that all that matters? IIRC, the Ford Pinto also sold like hotcakes.

A Verizon iPhone will be nice if it really happens in Jan. And I would wager the iPhone on Verizon will have a revised antenna design. I wonder why

See, now making a prediction Im fine with. I do disagree with your statement as I think the frame will still be the antenna for next years phones as the benefits far outweigh any cons.

However, if your argument is that Apple will change the antenna design in some way, Ill point out that Apple has changed" every iPhone with each new release. So what you stating is like wagering the sun will rise tomorrow. If you also argue that changing the antenna design in any way is proof that the iPhone 4 is flawed at the design level then Ill point out that would mean that every iPhone has been flawed at the design level, as stated by such an argument. So what exactly are you wagering?

I'm wagering that if an iPhone comes to Verizon in 1st qtr 2011, it will look very similar to the current iPhone 4, have all the same features, except it will have a revised antenna design. Of course Apple won't admit they revised the antenna because of the flaw.

So youre still wagering that it will be using that design flaw of having an antenna as the frame that you can can see and touch, but youre saying that they will change the some aspect of the frame-antenna? Do I really need to point out that: A) there are physical chip differences that could easily cause the internals of the iPhone 4 to be different thus causing the way the internal structure of the iPhone 4 frame would look when taken apart, and B) CDMA/EVDO is a different technology that works differently with towers thus causing a change in antenna design for a CDMA/EVDO phone over a GSM/UMTS phone likely?

Again, what specific changes are you saying will happen because of this design flaw from using the frame as the antenna?

Yes, I fully realize the points your brought up. And yes, I still believe they will keep an external antenna design. Because there are benefits to it, if done properly. I believe they will either have the gap in a better location, or some kind of material over it to prevent the detuning when touching the gap. And I believe the changes they make to the Verizon iPhone antenna (if one really appears) will be similar to the antenna changes they make for the GSM/UMTS iPhone 5.

These are some of the people I was referring to. I particularly like the part where ski1 emphasizes that the problems other phones suffer are technically called by another name, while essentially admitting that the effect a user will experience is the same. And, of course, Foo2 who always holds his phone with one finger. Thanks for demonstrating my point so effectively guys!


No, they aren't, and they never really have, with any product, unless you refer to their job of paying their own salaries. CR is the publication for the uninformed consumer, and as long as the consumer depends on CR, they are likely to stay that way.

LOL, I see that anonymouse is distorting facts again and putting words in my mouth. The problem with his flawed logic is that most phones do not lose 20 db in reception when holding it in a natural position. The iPhone 4 does lose 20 db of reception when holding it in a natural position. I wonder why anonymouse likes distorting facts

Well, there is distortion of facts going on here, but not by me*. The dB issue has already been addressed ad nauseum and shown to be yet another red herring. I know your grasping at anything you can here, but, unfortunately, you are grasping at straws.



* For example, what words did I put in your mouth? None. I elided your response to emphasize the important parts (while a link to the original is available) and gave an accurate interpretation of your distinction (without a difference, to the user) between detuning and attenuation. You may wish to disavow your post, but, I have not in any way misinterpreted what you said, even if what you ended up saying isn't what you hoped to, and you were unable to make the point you wished to make. That failure is yours, not mine. The distortion of facts is yours as well.

You have to live less than 2 miles from an ATT cell tower, not an ATT complex. Living next to an ATT complex will not help you in the least, unless you have a job interview there and your car breaks down.


I had 3 different iphones from 3 different sources, ATT store, Apple store, Apple online sales. None of them could hold a call for more than 60 seconds without dropping the call, none of them could hold an internet connection for more than 60 seconds without timing out (3G, wifi worked fine). I actually live 0.72 miles from an ATT tower, and my phone would drop from full bars to no signal. Went back to my iphone 3GS and have full bars all the time.

The iphone 4 did work fine sometimes though, when I was holding it with boxing gloves on.

Low return rate? Not so sure about that, the ATT store where I returned one of my phones told me that people were returning them at a rate of DOUBLE of any phone they have ever sold. Im pretty sure Apple says there being returned at a rate of <0.000000000000001%. Don't believe everything you read.

You are the one grasping at anything to attempt to prove your flawed logic of how the iPhone reception issue is the same as all other phones. And you put words in my mouth by implying I said the end result of these issues are the same on all phones. Because the reception issue is much more profoundly affected on the iPhone 4, which has always been my point. I can't help you understand basic logic and concepts.

Don't try to bait me. From the stats I've seen 99+% of iP4 users are satisfied. And when you make comparisons, I suggest you don't compare apples (pun intended) and oranges. Some people who owned a Pinto died.

Which is missing at least one, as of a couple months ago.

Try again:

http://internet2go.net/news/hardware...-achilles-heel

Apparently not since you seem not to understand them yourself.

Fair enough. I haven't subscribed for several years, but not because they are dishonest, stupid or corrupt, which seems to be at the heart of most of the criticisms here.

I'm sorry. So you have one survey that claims only 93% are satisfied. I stand corrected. But in my case I haven't found an iP4 owner who isn't satisfied with the hardware. They aren't all satisfied with AT&T and tell me they would switch to Verizon if given that choice. But not one has complained about the antenna or the death grip.

Well for your small sample size, that's great. But this survey shows 24% are complaining about the antenna issue. I like my iPhone 4 too. But only with the free bumper.

And in fact, we have no current information on return rates. So the OP could not possible be basing his conclusions on real facts. Alll we know is some sort of relative return rate from a while ago.

What stats have you seen? Steve made some limited comments a long while ago - is that what you are resting on?

(And BTW, some people who own Apple products die too.)

Ski1 posted a link to some recent info which claims that your number is hogwash. Do you have a better source?

Or did you just misoverestimate 99+%?

I want both of you to stop.

This antenna issue is interesting. I'm willing to bet that most of those mentioning antenna issues have never had one. Sometimes when an "issue" is publicized, people will mention it, even though they've never had it. It's just human nature.