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Consumer Reports condemns end of iPhone 4 free case program - Page 2

post #41 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee, WY View Post

That's not censorship. It's their YouTube video, they can allow whatever they want on it.

Some other points:

1. Why is this news anyway? They never reversed their "cannot recommend" status for the iP4 when Apple instated the free case program, calling it "a good first step."

2. The attenuation issue is real, and Apple's handling of it is crap. That said, I love my iP4, despite it's somewhat annoying quirks. (like the proximity sensor still acting up even with 4.1 installed) The free bumper I got from Apple seemed to take care of the signal problems in my home, where I get awful reception (not Apple's fault)

3. CR has long been an Apple cheerleader, check any of their laptop/desktop ratings for the past twenty or so years. It seems whenever CR calls it like they see it, someone gets upset and accuses them of bias. I mean, lately they've got fans of the domestic and foreign automakers both accusing them of being bought and paid for by the other. They're a non-profit, and they seem fairly objective.

1. They didn't reverse the "cannot recommend status". They said that offering free cases wasn't good enough unless they guaranteed free cases forever.

2. I agree Apple's handling of it isn't that great. However it is not a real problem. You can reproduce it, but it doesn't cause dropped calls unless you are in an extreme circumstance where the iPhone 3GS wouldn't have had reception anyway. Looking purely at the DB drop is like only looking at megapixels when evaluating a digital camera. They are still giving you a free case if you have an actual problem. This is only going to help people who are just barely able to get an iPhone due to AT&T coverage issues. The prior iPhone probably would not have worked for these people at all. Now that Apple fixed the algorithm for the number of bars, these people are accurately shown with a single bar. Try to drop a call with more then one bar. It isn't going to work.

3. CR has never been an Apple cheerleader. At best they are objective sometimes.

4. It is censorship. It just isn't "government" censorship. There is a difference between not allowing any one to post in a free press and not allowing anyone to post a an opposing mainstream comment in a blog. Yet they allow comments with profanity (lots of F*ing posts), obvious trolling, misinformation, and lots of posts (obviously by non-iphone users) complaining about how expensive the Apple case is. CR is doing a disservice to their readers. Hopefully they pay for it.
post #42 of 189
Consumer Reports is not the "consumer union" that they think they are...
post #43 of 189
What BS!
Never had a reception or antenna issue with my two iP4s.
Sold my free bumper case on Amazon for $50....
Thanks Apple!
post #44 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

4. It is censorship. It just isn't "government" censorship. There is a difference between not allowing any one to post in a free press and not allowing anyone to post a an opposing mainstream comment in a blog. CR is doing a disservice to their readers. Hopefully they pay for it.

You never did respond to my post that Apple is also guilty of censorship.
post #45 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

You never did respond to my post that Apple is also guilty of censorship.

EDIT:
Correction. Your earlier post was not visible when I originally searched for it. I thought you were the one other person to respond to me. That guy was a troll.

I understand your point, but I still do not agree with you. Apple's support site needs to reflect Apple's official stance. This is a help site, not a forum for debate. When you criticize something and then do not allow comments that is a different issue.
post #46 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

Really? I have an iPhone 4 and prior to buying it I did everything I could to the in store demo to make the issue occur. Result? Sometimes nothing, sometimes it would lose 1 bar, sometimes it would gain one bar.

If you have ever had any interaction with an antenna in your life then you know that adding the human touch can do any of the three.

Further more it has been out since July in Australia and nope, no widespread complaints, heck you would be lucky to find a blog on the issue.

It's network and not phone. and... just to round out my angle, there are issues with the phone, it is slippery, it has sharp edges, it gets covered in human oils within seconds. As for that antenna, yeah there is an issue with the design, the separation makes for a weak spot for impacts.

Consumer report type orgs are paid by companies to spin, they are actually an ad agency by stealth. We have the same kinda orgs here too.

In Australia we have had no reception issues with the iPhone 3G, 3GS or 4. What is so hard for Americans to figure out with this one.


If you even have to make that comment then you know it's an issue.

Why would I, as an adult consumer wait until iOS 4 came out to test to make sure both the antenna issue and the proximity issue was addressed after almost 3 months after the USA release.

The antenna issue needs a bumper in the area that on the iPhone 3G iOS 3.x I never dropped a call. I purchases a case (and was refunded after a few days of using as a business phone, I didn't need more than that to make my decision).

The iPhone was returned, the case was returned and the screen covers (even though I used 1 was amazingly returned). I'm back to not being on contract with my 3G and very happy to wait for an iPhone 5 or at this point likely an Android devise. I'm waiting to see what's after the Droid X. It should be about the same time as the iPhone 5 and I still get my discount (either on AT&T or Verizon).

I have choices and I chose not to keep my iPhone 4. It was really an easy decision for me.
post #47 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Why are you posting under a different name now? Are you a troll that is using multiple user accounts.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Is this your way of avoiding the question? My last post, the one in which I referred to, was posted from this very same account--look for yourself.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...1&postcount=31

Now that we've got that straightened out (no idea why YOU needed it to be straightened out, but clearly you're not one for research), how about you address my point, or concede that Apple is as guilty of censorship as CR, as you claim.
post #48 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Now that we've got that straightened out (no why why YOU needed it to be straightened out, but clearly you're not one for research), how about you address my point, or concede that Apple is as guilty of censorship as CR, as you claim.

Apple is up front about the rules concerning their forums - that they are a technical support forum. Apple deleted off topic discussions that violated their rules as they have done for years. CR does not do this on their YouTube channel.
post #49 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

Apple is up front about the rules concerning their forums - that they are a technical support forum. Apple deleted off topic discussions that violated their rules as they have done for years. CR does not do this on their YouTube channel.

That's fine. It's still censorship, by definition.

(note that I don't personally care. Just pointing out esummers's apparent hypocrisy)
post #50 of 189
I couldn't care less if they can or can't recommend the phone based on if it comes with a case or not.
My iphone4 has Zero issues. Bought the phone day one of release. Don't use a case.
I recommend the phone to anyone and everyone. Buy it, best phone on the market and the OS isn't fragmented over 10 makers.
post #51 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyepad View Post

I couldn't care less if they can or can't recommend the phone based on whether it comes with a case or not.
My iphone has Zero issues. Bought the phone day one of release. Don't use a case.
I recommend the phone to anyone and everyone. Buy it, best phone on the market and the OS isn't fragmented over 10 makers.

You are speaking from personal use? That is not relevant to the rest of the US or the world.

As for your second point. Is Microsoft Windows 7 Fragmented even thought they have many Vendors to sell their OS as well as computer internals (for lack of a better term)?

No it's not. Neither is Android and for that matter, neither is Apple iOS even though they only support certain features on the 3G iPhone.

Your comments are leaking into the arena of ignorant and uninformed.
post #52 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

That's fine. It's still censorship, by definition.

(note that I don't personally care. Just pointing out esummers's apparent hypocrisy)

I understand your point, but I still do not agree with you. They are both censorship, but CR leads you to misinformation instead of understanding. Apple's support site needs to reflect Apple's official stance. This is a help site, not a forum for debate. They should remove anything that could cause misunderstanding. When you criticize something and then do not allow comments that reflect the opposite stance that is a different issue. In this case Consumer Reports only wants cheerleaders. Technically if CR were to remove posts with profanity (they clearly are not), that is censorship too. Personally, I don't think Apple is removing enough from the support site. There are a lot of incorrect procedures that can get someone in to trouble if they were to follow the advice. Who goes to a companies official site looking for an open forum? I would say a lot more people would expect that from a periodical that is supposed to be objective. There is nothing illegal or wrong about censorship by a private party if they are not under a contractual obligation. It is just that what Consumer Reports is doing, isn't in the consumers best interest.
post #53 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

I still do not agree with you. Apple's support site needs to reflect Apple's official stance. This is a help site, not a forum for debate. When you criticize something and then do not allow comments that is a different issue.

A support site, yes, not a support forum. CR posted pertinent information, yet Apple was deleting all discussion of it. That's censorship--whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant.
post #54 of 189
<Informed Buyer vs Gamer that doesn't care to think for themselves.>

"Your comments are leaking into the arena of ignorant and uninformed."


your smug replies just project your stupidity.

as jp morgan chase is now in the process of changing over to apple's phones, i guess that you're certain that it's because of the great gaming. and they're are not alone.

so take a hike over to google (android) as they could use another wannabee.
post #55 of 189
This video says it all. It goes from -90 to no signal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jhn613874 View Post

Yea, and we are the idiots. Its clear from the videos what the signal loss is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZyDK...eature=channel
post #56 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Consumer Reports:
I can't recommend the iPhone.

Consumer:
I don't care.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

Seriously, this is just going to make Consumer Reports look bad when that take this stance and everyone else says that it is a minor problem affecting very few people. Can it be reproduced? Yes. Can you easily avoid the problem (if you do not naturally do so)? Yes. Does the antenna design generally improve reception over a traditional design. Yes. Will it cause your call to drop? No. It's like the efficiency gauge on the Toyota Prius. Maximize your bars and you will get better gas mileage. Consumer Reports should stick to cars. Enough said.

JJ, check this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVzm8...eature=related
Marquiz d' Gabber von Gabberaarde

... and Windows Vista...
... fails on the Moon...
... 6x slower!
Reply
Marquiz d' Gabber von Gabberaarde

... and Windows Vista...
... fails on the Moon...
... 6x slower!
Reply
post #57 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Enough, already, from Consumer Reports on this. They said their piece. Now they're just fishing for traffic.

The irony, of course, is: Consumer Reports has an iPhone app. And... it's considered pretty lame.

That is awesome.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #58 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

That's fine. It's still censorship, by definition.

(note that I don't personally care. Just pointing out esummers's apparent hypocrisy)

Its not the same thing though - Apple is not censoring - they are moderating based on a set agreed upon set of rules between owner and member.
post #59 of 189
I think we're all entitled to our free speech/opinions.

Saying that, CR is entitled to not recommend iPhone 4 based on their reports and findings.

I personally would still recommend the iPhone 4 to my friends. (Yes, I'm an Apple fanboy, iSheep, Apple Posterboy) Why would I recommend it? Cause I have not experienced any deathgrip issues with my iPhone 4.

Simply put it this way, if you don't like the iPhone 4 cause you feel the design is fundamentally flawed, don't buy it. No one is forcing you to. Get an Android, RIM, Symbian or Mobile 7. There are so many options out there apart from the iPhone. Apple has also offered full refunds for displeased customers (it is like telling you if you're not happy you can take your money and leave).

Perhaps Apple should have designed it a different way so that it caters to our preference. Unfortunately for us, we are merely consumers. Try running a business and you'll find out that it is pretty difficult to please everyone. There will always be someone, with a different opinion.
post #60 of 189
Consumer Reports refusal to recommend the iPhone 4 is their business. They are perfectly within their rights to do so. But it does seem that consumers are not following their advice on this one. iPhone 4 sales continue to mount up. The antenna non-issue has completely disappeared from the tech blog radar screens. Nobody seems to care anymore, including Cnet. Like someone posted earlier the only ones still hammering away are the Android bots and Ireland, of course.

This says more about Consumer Report's ability to influence people than it does about Apple ending the free bumper program.
post #61 of 189
These douche bags really have a few sticks up their collective asses. Who gives a flying fluck what they say
post #62 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

CR is shameless.

... or is it Apple who's 'shameless'?

Somehow I get the impression one is actually looking out for the consumer, and one is far more concerned with their bottom line.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
Reply
post #63 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by erybovic View Post

It is a fundamental design flaw.

And it is easily fixed, just by putting the phone in a FREE case. But you're using very large type, so that makes you right - and it doesn't at all make you look tremendously insecure and needy.
post #64 of 189
I feel the same way as Consumer Reports. I said this on the other thread. So many of my friends here told me I was wrong. But I was so sure I was right. I began to doubt myself and wonder if it was true that the iPhone 4 is not flawed.

Thank you Consumer Reports. I'm glad someone sees things my way. At least I know I'm not mad. From now on I will trust my feelings.
post #65 of 189
CR WHO CARES! Ive never met a single person that didn't love their iphone...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Consumer Reports responded negatively to Apple's discontinuation of the free iPhone 4 case program, refusing to recommend the iPhone 4.

The consumer buying advice group announced Monday on its official blog that it continues not to recommend the iPhone 4. Apple's decision to discontinue the iPhone 4 free case program was seen as "less consumer-friendly."

"Putting the onus on any owners of a product to obtain a remedy to a design flaw is not acceptable to us," wrote Consumer Reports.

Apple announced Friday that it would not extend its free case offer, which expires on Sept. 30. Users experiencing noticeable loss of signal when holding the phone can contact AppleCare to request a free bumper. According to Apple, the "iPhone 4 antenna attenuation issue is even smaller" than they originally thought.

Consumer Reports also took issue with the change in available cases. During the free case program, seven cases, "including some from third-party manufacturers," were offered. Users who contact AppleCare after Sept. 30 will only have Apple's own Bumper case available to them.

In July, Consumer Reports reversed its initial recommendation that there was "no reason not to buy" the new smartphone. After independent testing in a "controlled environment," the organization found that the iPhone 4 was subject to signal loss when held.

Despite the lack of recommendation, the organization still ranked the iPhone as the best smartphone available, giving it the "highest rated" score.

Several websites questioned Consumer Reports' testing methodology. Engineer Bob Egan dismissed the test as unscientific.

"From what I can see in the reports, Consumer Reports replicated the same uncontrolled, unscientific experiments that many of the blogging sites have done," Egan wrote on his website.
post #66 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakjoshie420 View Post

CR WHO CARES! Ive never met a single person that didn't love their iphone...


I love my iPhone 4.
post #67 of 189
And AI cares about CR because...?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #68 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by marokero View Post

+1 here. I haven't experinced problems thus far, and I do believe if there is a problem, it's with AT&T's network. I live less than 2 miles from a big AT&T complex and I get only three bars.

+++

I live in NYC, in an area where I never received a signal with the 3GS and a very poor signal with the dumbphone I was using when I lost the 3GS (wanted to wait till the iPhone 4 was released) and have excellent signal.

I have even started picking up a faint signal inside some subway stations.

Unlike the 3GS, which I wanted to jailbreak a week or so in, I have not even thought about JB'ing the iPhone.

It is a fantastic device, and the reception problems have been way overblown.
post #69 of 189
What's funny is that sometimes when I press *3001#1245#* and apply the death touch, radio strength sometimes increases. Not a lot, but usually 5 db or so. The other times it drops between 8 and 12 db. Then there are times it stays the same. I don't drop calls, so it's a non-issue for me.
post #70 of 189
Laughable. People who have the problem still get a case. It's what they should have done from the beginning.
I am the Great Bug

:-P
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I am the Great Bug

:-P
Reply
post #71 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by erybovic View Post

It is a fundamental design flaw.

I could see why you'd say that, but I disagree. Cupping the left corner drops about 2 bars of reception. On the other hand, the new antenna design gives me noticeably better reception when it is not cupped. Calls from my bedroom used to drop every 10 minutes or so. Now drops are pretty rare.

Apple External Antenna Design:
Pros
+Better reception (usually)
+External rigidity (no more hairline fractures hopefully)
+Increased internal volume
+thinner design

Cons
-Drops 2 bars when cupped

Apple provided complimentary covers to early customers who may have been uninformed about the antenna issue. After 3 months, it no secret and I see no reason why Apple should be vilified for discontinuing this program.
post #72 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Consumer Reports refusal to recommend the iPhone 4 is their business. They are perfectly within their rights to do so. But it does seem that consumers are not following their advice on this one. iPhone 4 sales continue to mount up. The antenna non-issue has completely disappeared from the tech blog radar screens. Nobody seems to care anymore, including Cnet. Like someone posted earlier the only ones still hammering away are the Android bots and Ireland, of course.

This says more about Consumer Report's ability to influence people than it does about Apple ending the free bumper program.

You don't understand. You can't just disagree with Consumer Reports. They must be either stupid or corrupt.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
Reply
post #73 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellott124 View Post

Can't say I really care.

Can't say that I"m really shocked. CR basically has to continue to 'not recommend' the phone until the hardware changes because to do anything else is to admit that they were wrong.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #74 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Can't say that I"m really shocked. CR basically has to continue to 'not recommend' the phone until the hardware changes because to do anything else is to admit that they were wrong.

Ah hah! So that's what they're up to! Those devils!

Of course you could make the argument that Apple wont fix the problem because if they do it would be admitting that they designed the antenna wrong. Hmmm....
post #75 of 189
I got my first iPhone about a week ago and use the Fido network in Canada. If I avoid touching the bottom left divider, I get 3 or so bars. If I press the divider, it drops to 1 bar and sometimes I get a No Network message. I have a case on order. I am very pleased with all the other aspects of the iPhone and marvel at how the world has changed from when I started using computers with an IBM 1620, a Selectric typewriter and paper tape in 1961.

Tom
post #76 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

You guys notice that Consumer Reports is moderating the comment field on their YouTube video. They are not letting any comments through that disagree with their opinion. So much for representing the consumer.... I guess they think censorship is good for us?

Have you ever looked at the Apple forums? They're as agressive as anyone with pruning their forums to "eliminate problems." I think besides AppleCare, deleting forum posts is their top way of dealing with customer dissatisfaction...
post #77 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by erybovic View Post

It is a fundamental design flaw.

Then why do only a tiny minority experience it?
post #78 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Ah hah! So that's what they're up to! Those devils!

Of course you could make the argument that Apple wont fix the problem because if they do it would be admitting that they designed the antenna wrong. Hmmm....

Videos in UTUBE clearly show that the problem is prevalent with other phones as well - eg: NOKIA and BLACKBERRY. Why CR is not pursuing them to give free cases or fix the fundamental flaw?

CR is trying to be nasty to Apple while silent / ok to others. Organizations like CR should be un-biased. If they get biased - then they loose their credibility over the years.
post #79 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenLoveToys View Post

You are speaking from personal use? That is not relevant to the rest of the US or the world.

As irrelevant as this, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MenLoveToys View Post

If (and I know it's true, I returned my iPhone 4) you can reproduce a drop in signal by using 1 finger to touch 1 simple spot (the most used spot by most consumers) then it is a design flaw.

You started your post somewhat reasonably but little by little beginning to show your true color.
post #80 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzbk81 View Post

Videos in UTUBE clearly show that the problem is prevalent with other phones as well - eg: NOKIA and BLACKBERRY. Why CR is not pursuing them to give free cases or fix the fundamental flaw?

CR is trying to be nasty to Apple while silent / ok to others. Organizations like CR should be un-biased. If they get biased - then they loose their credibility over the years.

I don't own one of the other phones, so I can only quote what others say. The problem exists on the iPhone 4 when you hold it in your left hand "in a natural way." On the other phones, you have to grip them tightly on purpose to make it happen. That's how it looks in the videos that Apple used to have on the site.
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