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Consumer Reports condemns end of iPhone 4 free case program - Page 3

post #81 of 189
Consumer Reports: aren't those the cunts that couldn't decide if Antennagate was real? Get it right.
post #82 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Putting the onus on any owners of a product to obtain a remedy to a design flaw is not acceptable to us," wrote Consumer Reports.

In reality the bumper is by no means satisfactory protection against the antenna ``problem' '. The thing rather cripples phone, and does not cure completely that ``issue' ', which is honestly barely noticeable within daily usage.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #83 of 189
What a bunch of Ding Dongs! Apple says they will still give out their case for those who ask. Why should they have to hand out third party cases like it is Halloween??!

Quote:
Originally Posted by marokero View Post

+1 here. I haven't experinced problems thus far, and I do believe if there is a problem, it's with AT&T's network. I live less than 2 miles from a big AT&T complex and I get only three bars.

I have a stupid LG flip phone that does stuff like texting, but I can't figure that out. I have it as a GoPhone since I work at home most of the time and use it sporatically. Even at home more often than not I don't get a signal. And I am in the Monterey Bay area in California, not exactly the middle of no where. It is stupid ATT's network on the LG obviously.

My boyfriend has a subscription to Consumer Reports. I take their stuff with a grain of salt. I find the customer reviews (you know like from real Customers) from amazon.com or other big online opinion sites to be way more helpful.

I find CR's stance to be just laughable.
post #84 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

Its not the same thing though - Apple is not censoring - they are moderating based on a set agreed upon set of rules between owner and member.


What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
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post #85 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

I hope that you realize Apple did the same thing on their forums regarding the iPhone antenna issues.

Guess Apple thinks censorship is good too, huh?

CR's supposed goal is to provide unbiased information to consumers about a variety of products/brands. Apple's is to sell us their stuff by making it as good as possible and presenting it in the best light possible. Just like amazon tries to sell the kindle by comparing only the display to the iPad--rather than focusing on apps, for example. Put another way, apple, amazon, etc, play for a team. CR claims to be a referee. Most people know the difference between marketing and "unbiased" information. Except maybe for you.

And censorship adresses government actions--not whether a company allows or disallows comments on an internet thread. In fact, a moderator could ban your uninformed comment and that would not be censorship at all (hint to moderator). What CR is engaging in is duplicity. They claim that they are for the consumer and yet prevent possibly useful information from ever reaching that consumer by cutting off opposing viewpoints in their comments section.
post #86 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenLoveToys View Post

Consumer Reports is a highly respected magazine and online company

You mean that same Consumer Reports that repeatedly told us that Toyota makes the best cars in the world while these kinds of things were happening all over the country?

Quote:
On August 28 Mark Saylor the California Highway Patrol cop in San Diego tried to stop his Toyota Lexus ES 350 with his wife, daughter and his brother in law on board while his 272 horsepower car drove them to their deaths. They screamed in horror and said were in trouble theres no brakes as he hit another vehicle slammed into an embankment and died along with all the other passengers.


CR has not had any credibility for a very long time. They've been caught faking tests. They've demonstrated repeatedly that they don't know the first thing about the items they test. Anyone with decent prior knowledge of an item that they read about in CR is bound to howl with laughter at CR's ineptitude. They are especially egregious when it comes to cars and electronics.
post #87 of 189
I've tried to reproduce the "death touch" on over 45 iPhone 4's now without EVER seeing bars drop.

I've sold loads of them and had ZERO returns.

I've demonstrated my caseless iPhone 4 to hundreds of people and they have been unable to make the bars drop.

I spend most of my day in an area with only 2G coverage at 3-4 bars.

My sample size is fifteen times larger than CR's pseudo-scientific test of THREE iPhones, to anyone who has done the MOST BASIC high school level statistics it is LAUGHABLE.

I got the case because it was free, I also show people how they can get a free case by downloading the App.

I've had zero dropped calls or issues with missed calls.
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post #88 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

I could see why you'd say that, but I disagree. Cupping the left corner drops about 2 bars of reception. On the other hand, the new antenna design gives me noticeably better reception when it is not cupped. Calls from my bedroom used to drop every 10 minutes or so. Now drops are pretty rare.

Apple External Antenna Design:
Pros
+Better reception (usually)
+External rigidity (no more hairline fractures hopefully)
+Increased internal volume
+thinner design

Cons
-Drops 2 bars when cupped

Apple provided complimentary covers to early customers who may have been uninformed about the antenna issue. After 3 months, it no secret and I see no reason why Apple should be vilified for discontinuing this program.

What’s interesting about that dropped bars when cupped, which maxed out at 24 dB according to AnandTech, is that the new design can hold a call so much better than the old design that even with that extra drop in dB you are still better off.

In other words, the iPhone 4 dropped 24.6 dB when cupped tightly while the Nexus One dropped HTC Nexus One 17.7 dB. That is a difference of 6.9 dB. However, the iPhone 4 can make and hold a call at −120 dB while others are dead at −113 dB. That means the iPhone 4’s overall usage when cupping tightly just squeezes ahead of the Nexus One.

Unfortunately, no one cares about other phones enough to do more in-depth testing the way AnandTech first did and since this really is the best iPhone Apple has ever created, the best phone on the market and clear benefit for the consumer we’ll probably never have tests showing exactly how much of a benefit this new design is over other phones.

To recap AnandTech’s take on the iPhone 4 despite the anti-Apple crowd using their results from this article as a reason to say that it’s a “design flaw” caused by a “short circuit” of the antennas.
The Antenna is Improved
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
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post #89 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What’s interesting about that dropped bars when cupped, which maxed out at 24 dB according to AnandTech, is that the new design can hold a call so much better than the old design that even with that extra drop in dB you are still better off.

In other words, the iPhone 4 dropped 24.6 dB when cupped tightly while the Nexus One dropped HTC Nexus One 17.7 dB. That is a difference of 6.9 dB. However, the iPhone 4 can make and hold a call at −120 dB while others are dead at −113 dB. That means the iPhone 4’s overall usage when cupping tightly just squeezes ahead of the Nexus One.

Unfortunately, no one cares about other phones enough to do more in-depth testing the way AnandTech first did and since this really is the best iPhone Apple has ever created, the best phone on the market and clear benefit for the consumer we’ll probably never have tests showing exactly how much of a benefit this new design is over other phones.

To recap AnandTech’s take on the iPhone 4 despite the anti-Apple crowd using their results from this article as a reason to say that it’s a “design flaw” caused by a “short circuit” of the antennas.

Some of your logic is flawed. First, AnandTech never said the HTC Nexus One or any other phone (except the iphone 3GS) is dead at -113 db. Second, you are comparing 'cupping tightly' db loss results when the true issue is the 'naturally holding' db loss results. The fact remains it is a design flaw that I'm sure Apple will fix in the next version.
post #90 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

They are both censorship, but CR leads you to misinformation instead of understanding.



That is a common defense for censorship. It has been used by every repressive regime in the world, by religious fanatics, and by other despicable creatures.

The answer to bad speech is more good speech. Not the repression of ideas.
post #91 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Some of your logic is flawed. First, AnandTech never said the HTC Nexus One or any other phone (except the iphone 3GS) is dead at -113 db. Second, you are comparing 'cupping tightly' db loss results when the true issue is the 'naturally holding' db loss results. The fact remains it is a design flaw that I'm sure Apple will fix in the next version.

Your right, it was the 3GS that would drop a call at -113 dB while the iPhone 4 would hold a call at -120 dB. So the logic isnt’ flawed, just my previous data. This new data works out better as it means that the “design flaw” is with the 3GS, not the iPhone 4 since it can’t maintain a call at −113 dB.

So, can the Nexus One make and maintain a call at −120 dB and can AnandTech’s claim that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.” be discounted?
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post #92 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

And AI cares about CR because...?

Because the mere mention of one of Apple's official enemies garners them many hits, and those hits translate directly into dollars.

They are a business. They try to make money. And they know they will make more if they put CR or Android or Google or Microsoft or Adobe or any other enemy in their headline.

Look at the numbers of replies to articles. It is rare that they break 100 UNLESS some enemy is mentioned. Then the hit count goes through the roof, and AI makes bank.
post #93 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackintosh View Post

Ah hah! So that's what they're up to! Those devils!

Of course you could make the argument that Apple wont fix the problem because if they do it would be admitting that they designed the antenna wrong. Hmmm....

You don't understand.

CR is horrible and corrupt and liars.

Apple made no mistake.

If you start with these premises, conclusions flow like water.
post #94 of 189
Thanks, CR!

Apple says it doesn't seem to be as big of a problem as it did initially... because they've been giving away free cases and people use them. DUH.
Why shouldn't Apple be compelled to provide a choice of case, when the flawed antenna design was their choice?
post #95 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

You don't understand.

CR is horrible and corrupt and liars.

Apple made no mistake.

If you start with these premises, conclusions flow like water.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
post #96 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your right, it was the 3GS that would drop a call at -113 dB while the iPhone 4 would hold a call at -120 dB. So the logic isnt’ flawed, just my previous data. This new data works out better as it means that the “design flaw” is with the 3GS, not the iPhone 4 since it can’t maintain a call at −113 dB.

So, can the Nexus One make and maintain a call at −120 dB and can AnandTech’s claim that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.” be discounted?

No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -105 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still have a signal. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.
post #97 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -110 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still be ok. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.

And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.

Ill tell you what. You can continue to hate on the iPhone while I (and millions of others) continue to enjoy it increased reception.
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post #98 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.

Not when held "wrong".
post #99 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The consumer buying advice group announced Monday on its official blog that it continues not to recommend the iPhone 4. Apple's decision to discontinue the iPhone 4 free case program was seen as "less consumer-friendly."

I usually hold CR in high regard, but this is starting to sound like blatant headline-grabbing. I don't know what the percentage is but my guess is a majority of iPhone buyers were going to get a case anyway. Apple did not need to give these people their cases for free, but did so because CR made a big deal of it.

Is there a flaw in the iPhone? Probably, but CR is only pushing down on it to boost their own ego. Not because they "care" about consumers.
post #100 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4’s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.”

I’ll tell you what. You can continue to hate on the iPhone while I (and millions of others) continue to enjoy it increased reception.

What part in my last 2 posts do you not understand ? First, where do you show a test that proves iPhone 4 can hold on to a signal better then any other phone ? AnandTech only showed the iPhone 4 can hold on to a signal better then the iPhone 3GS. And that is just using raw db results.

Second, like I said earlier, if you are in an area where the signal is -105 db (untouched phone). The iPhone 3GS when being naturally held, will lose 2db and have a signal of -107 db. And it will still have a signal. But the iPhone 4 in a -105 db area being naturally held, will lose 20 db and only have -125 db. It will not be able to hold a call. AnandTech showed the limit of the iPhone 3GS is -113 db and the limit for the iPhone 4 is -120 db. So in the above real world example, the iPhone 3GS will be able to hold a call, while the iPhone 4 will not.

BTW, I love my iPhone 4. But I also know reality and I'm not a blind Apple follower. The free Apple case fixes their design flaw.
post #101 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Not when held "wrong".

According to ski1s argument its when "held wrong" that the iPhone 4 is even more superior to the other phones as the difference in dB is lessened and the iPhone 4 will be able to hold a call at −120 dB while the 3GS will drop at −113 dB.

And considering the previous argument from the supposed email from Jobs saying not to hold it wrong, the dissenters clearly stated that holding it wrong was the natural way to hold it. So no matter how you slice it the iPhone 4 is, as AnandTech states, "massively better... in actual use.
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post #102 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

as AnandTech states, "massively better... in actual use.

As AnandTech states, only when the iPhone 4 is in a case. You forgot that little detail.
post #103 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

According to ski1’s argument it’s when "held wrong" that the iPhone 4 is even more superior to the other phones as the difference in dB is lessened and the iPhone 4 will be able to hold a call at −120 dB while the 3GS will drop at −113 dB.

And considering the previous argument from the supposed email from Jobs saying not to hold it wrong, the dissenters clearly stated that holding it wrong was the natural way to hold it. So no matter how you slice it the iPhone 4 is, as AnandTech states, "massively better... in actual use.”

You still don't understand my very clear real world example. Oh well. LOL. I give up. I think most logical people can understand the truth.
post #104 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

As AnandTech states, only when the iPhone 4 is in a case. You forgot that little detail.

No where in the paragraph I noted did he stated did he state that the iPhone 4 was only superior to the 3GS in reception when the Bumper was in use. Ive already debunked, decimated and destroyed every other argument youve tried to make about the Phone 4 being inferior piece of crap so I didnt want to kick you when you were already down, but since you brought it up Anand stated in the THE NEXT paragraph that he can go further into "dead zones with the Bumper on, which was not possible on other phones, further backing my point that the iPhone 4 is a net win over the previous design.

Conclusion: The iPhone 4 is better than the previous iPhones in reception and Apple will not be continuing the case giveaway, they will not be doing a recall, they will not being coming out with an iPhone 4.5 in October, and they will be using the frame as the antenna in the iPhone 5 due next year.
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post #105 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No where in the paragraph I noted did he stated did he state that the iPhone 4 was only superior to the 3GS in reception when the Bumper was in use. I’ve already debunked, decimated and destroyed every other argument you’ve tried to make about the Phone 4 being inferior piece of crap I didn’t think want to kick you when you were already down, but since you brought it up he stated in the THE NEXT paragraph that he can go further into "dead zones” with the Bumper on, which was not possible on other phones, further backing my point that the iPhone 4 is a net win over the previous design.

LOL, hmm, I guess you overlooked the below paragraph from AnandTech's article:
Quote:
AnandTech:
With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all. It's amazing really to experience the difference in sensitivity the iPhone 4 brings compared to the 3GS, and issues from holding the phone aside, reception is absolutely definitely improved. I felt like I was going places no iPhone had ever gone before. There's no doubt in my mind this iPhone gets the best cellular reception yet, even though measured signal is lower than the 3GS.

And btw, you did not debunk my very real world example in my previous post. Try again !!! lol
post #106 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No where in the paragraph I noted did he stated did he state that the iPhone 4 was only superior to the 3GS in reception when the Bumper was in use.

It wasn't in the same paragraph. He makes this proviso a little earlier in the article.
"If you add a bumper case to the iPhone 4, the signal strength drop from holding the device is on par if not better than other phones."

And a little later in the article:
"With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all."
post #107 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

LOL, hmm, I guess you overlooked the below paragraph from AnandTech's article:

You really need to read better. That is the NEXT PARAGRAPH as noted in my comment. Or are you honestly trying to convince us that everything he said and all his tests were with the Bumper on, but he mentioned it with a real world experience of going further into “dead zones” whilst using the iPhone 4. And let’s not forget that these “dead zones” are aptly named because other phones will not operate at all, hence they are essentially dead. Yet the iPhone is still able to make and hold calls. Again, the iPhone 4’s frame as the antenna is shown to be a net win for the consumer. But the bottom line is if this scares you or if it doesn’t fit your needs, don’t buy it, and let the millions upon millions who can use the improved reception of the iPhone 4 enjoy it. No need for you to spread your anti-Apple propaganda because this phone or company doesn’t suit your needs.
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post #108 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No where in the paragraph I noted did he stated did he state that the iPhone 4 was only superior to the 3GS in reception when the Bumper was in use. I’ve already debunked, decimated and destroyed every other argument you’ve tried to make about the Phone 4 being inferior piece of crap so I didn’t want to kick you when you were already down, but since you brought it up Anand stated in the THE NEXT paragraph that he can go further into "dead zones” with the Bumper on, which was not possible on other phones, further backing my point that the iPhone 4 is a net win over the previous design.

Conclusion: The iPhone 4 is better than the previous iPhones in reception and Apple will not be continuing the case giveaway, they will not be doing a recall, they will not being coming out with an iPhone 4.5 in October, and they will be using the frame as the antenna in the iPhone 5 due next year.


Btw, the issue is that iPhone 4 has poorer reception in real world results without the bumper cover. Yes, in lab results when you don't touch the phone, or if you have a bumper, the iPhone 4 has better reception. But that is not the issue. The issue is that Apple should still be giving cases away for free with every iPhone 4 purchase.
post #109 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You really need to read better. That is the NEXT PARAGRAPH as noted in my comment. Or are you honestly trying to convince us that everything he said and all his tests were with the Bumper on, but he mentioned it with a real world experience of going further into “dead zones” whilst using the iPhone 4. And let’s not forget that these “dead zones” are aptly named because other phones will not operate at all, hence they are essentially dead. Yet the iPhone is still able to make and hold calls. Again, the iPhone 4’s frame as the antenna is shown to be a net win for the consumer. But the bottom line is if this scares you or if it doesn’t fit your needs, don’t buy it, and let the millions upon millions who can use the improved reception of the iPhone 4 enjoy it. No need for you to spread your anti-Apple propaganda because this phone or company doesn’t suit your needs.

Why can't you respond to my real world example I stated above ? I'll list it again:

If you are in an area where the signal is -105 db (untouched phone). The iPhone 3GS when being naturally held, will lose 2db and have a signal of -107 db. And it will still have a signal. But the iPhone 4 in a -105 db area being naturally held, will lose 20 db and only have -125 db. It will not be able to hold a call. AnandTech showed the limit of the iPhone 3GS is -113 db and the limit for the iPhone 4 is -120 db. So in the above real world example, the iPhone 3GS will be able to hold a call, while the iPhone 4 will not.
post #110 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -105 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still have a signal. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.

Where did you find those numbers for the 3GS? Attenuation caused by proximity to your hand could cause much more than 2db of signal loss. I don't believe that for a second. On my 4, in field test mode, I lost 15-20db by wrapping my hand tightly around the phone, with or without a case. When testing without the case, I was very careful not to touch the 'spot'. In both cases I lost 15-20db over multiple tests. When testing by intentionally touching the spot, I lost a max of 23db (as low as 18db) through detuning caused by touching the spot. The detuning from touching the spot causes additional signal loss, but most of the signal loss is from proximity through attenuation.

Every single phone on the market will suffer similar attenuation. I was disappointed by Apple's attempt to imply that this was the only problem and that because it is common to all phones it isn't an iPhone4 problem. This was deceiving, because the iPhone 4 also suffers from the problem of detuning when the spot is touched. But Apple is completely correct when they say it is not the problem it has been blown out to be.

Yes the iphone 4 has a unique problem caused by the exposed antenna that causes signal loss. But a similarly held phone, of any type, will have similar, though slightly less, signal loss because the loss from attenuation cause by proximity (not touch) is the far greated cause of signal loss. As you say, the case resolved the problem of detuning caused by touch. But, the attenuation is the main problem and is indeed common to every phone.

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post #111 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

It wasn't in the same paragraph. He makes this proviso a little earlier in the article.
"If you add a bumper case to the iPhone 4, the signal strength drop from holding the device is on par if not better than other phones."

And a little later in the article:
"With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all."

So without a Bumper, its a net win for the consumer as the antenna as the frame design allows for a much wider range of Db. THEN if you add a Bumper Anand states that "is on par if not better than other phones AND the ability to make it further into dead zones than ever before. All you two are doing is reinforcing my argument that the iPhone 4s antenna as frame design is superior.
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post #112 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You really need to read better. That is the NEXT PARAGRAPH as noted in my comment. Or are you honestly trying to convince us that everything he said and all his tests were with the Bumper on, but he mentioned it with a real world experience of going further into dead zones whilst using the iPhone 4. And lets not forget that these dead zones are aptly named because other phones will not operate at all, hence they are essentially dead.

You need to read better. Anand could also write better, but his meaning is still clear enough when read without bias. The iPhone 4 suffers from terrible attenuation just by holding it naturally, but when enclosed in a bumper case it performs great.
post #113 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Where did you find those numbers for the 3GS?.

It's in AnandTech article. Only 2db loss when holding the iPhone 3GS naturally.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2
post #114 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Why can't you respond to my real world example I stated above ? I'll list it again:

If you are in an area where the signal is -105 db (untouched phone). The iPhone 3GS when being naturally held, will lose 2db and have a signal of -107 db. And it will still have a signal. But the iPhone 4 in a -105 db area being naturally held, will lose 20 db and only have -125 db. It will not be able to hold a call. AnandTech showed the limit of the iPhone 3GS is -113 db and the limit for the iPhone 4 is -120 db. So in the above real world example, the iPhone 3GS will be able to hold a call, while the iPhone 4 will not.

But this real world example doesn't seem to be real world. In a case, the iPhone 4 should behave similarly to the 3GS. My iP4 clearly shows up to 20db of loss when tightly held while in a case (I just did two more quick tests and my signal went from -86db to -103db in both instances, in a case).

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #115 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So without a Bumper, it’s a net win for the consumer as the antenna as the frame design allows for a much wider range of Db. THEN if you add a Bumper Anand states that "is on par if not better than other phones” AND the ability to make “it further into dead zones than ever before”. All you two are doing is reinforcing my argument that the iPhone 4’s antenna as frame design is superior.


LOL, all you doing is spinning words to poorly attempt to prove your flawed logic. Why can't you respond to my real world example ?
post #116 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

But this real world example doesn't seem to be real world. In a case, the iPhone 4 should behave similarly to the 3GS. My iP4 clearly shows up to 20db of loss when tightly held while in a case (I just did two more quick tests and my signal went from -86db to -103db in both instances, in a case).

That's not my point in my real world example. My example was without the case, and naturally holding the phones. Not tightly holding the phones.
post #117 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

Why can't you respond to my real world example I stated above ? I'll list it again:

Because it’s pointless. If you run the numbers I can find a lot more “real world” examples, as you put it, to suit my argument, but these aren’t “real world” these are just you finding an example that suits your specific needs for your argument, just as I could do but it doesn’t prove anything. So, yes, I’m ignoring your FOX News argument trap.

Example: If your dB is −117 which phones will make a call without holding them? (pure silliness or “OMG iPhone 4 FOR TEH WIN”) For a real world, let consumers decide and so far it’s the fastest selling iPhone and has sold more units than any other smartphone on the market in such a short time frame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Where did you find those numbers for the 3GS?

That was from Anand’s first review of the iPhone 4.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2 Note that the anti-Apple/anti-iPhone posters keep saying that you have to cup it to hold it naturally, thus causing the attenuation. Of course, until I pointed out that the iPhone 4 can hold a signal to lower dB than other phones… so the goal posts were moved to support their argument.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #118 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1 View Post

You are so wrong !!! Did you not read anandTech article. It's in black and white. Only 2db loss when holding the iPhone 3GS naturally.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/t...one-4-review/2

I read it a couple months ago. I do see that it agrees with my observation. As I said, I tested by holding it tightly. What does Anand's article say about holding a 3GS tightly? It drops by 14.3 db. Nexus One? 17.7db drop. My tests with an iPhone4 in a case? 15-20db.

You correct that their tests of 'holding it naturally' showed a miniscule drop of 2db for the 3GS while the iPhone 4 was a huge 19.8 and also correct that a case resolves this.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #119 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Because it’s pointless. If you run the numbers I can find a lot more “real world” examples, as you put it, to suit my argument, but these aren’t “real world” these are just you finding an example that suits your specific needs for your argument, just as I could do but it doesn’t prove anything. So, yes, I’m ignoring your FOX News argument trap.

LOL. Thanks for proving my point that you can't debunk my real world example. The fact remains the iPhone 3GS outperforms the iPhone 4 (without a bumper) when holding the phones naturally in the real world.
post #120 of 189
AnandTech's conclusion: "At the end of the day, Apple should add an insulative coating to the stainless steel band, or subsidize bumper cases. It's that simple."
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