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Nokia unveils N8 smartphone, chairman to leave in 2012

post #1 of 66
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Nokia released the long-awaited N8 smartphone running Symbian^3 at the Nokia World event Tuesday amid news of the 2012 departure of its chairman.

Management shakeups

Chairman Jorma Ollila announced his intention to step down just days after several other major management changes, according to a report by MarketWatch. On Friday, Nokia announced that chief executive Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo was to be replaced by Stephen Elop on Sept. 21. Elop comes from Microsoft, where he served as head of the company's Business Division.

On Monday, Anssi Vanjoki, head of Nokia's mobile solutions unit, announced his resignation. According to MarketWatch, several analysts have speculated that Vanjoki decided to leave because "he wasn't chosen as the new CEO."

Nokia still leads as the world's top handset maker, but the current management team has come under criticism as it has lost market share to newer smartphone players like Apple. Nokia's management shakeups are seen as a 'changing of the guard' while the Finnish company tries to reinvent itself.

"Ollila's departure was somehow expected. What is new is the more precise timing. Now we're likely going to see a stream of departures." Royal Bank of Scotland analyst Alex Faure said.

The N8 and Symbian^3

In spite of the news of management upheaval, the star of Tuesday's Nokia World show was the flagship N8 smartphone. The N8, which runs the latest version of the Symbian operating system, should be out by the end of the month and will cost 370 euros unsubsidized. The device comes with a 12-megapixel camera, HDMI out and a 3.5-inch 360 x 640 pixel touchscreen.

Response to the new handset has reportedly been "the strongest Nokia has ever seen." The N8 is set to roll out to over 100 operators worldwide in coming months.

First impressions of the upgraded Symbian OS have been lukewarm. U.K.-based telecoms consultancy CCS Insight admits that Nokia "has made progress" on the operating system, but feels it is "not positioned to challenge Apple's iPhone."

Slashgear's Michael Gartenberg spent a week with the N8 and found the hardware "impressive," but called the software "a different story." Despite making "great strides in usability and functionality," Nokia has much to do in order to "drive the software platform forward." The selection of the OVI store "pales relative to the competition," wrote Gartenberg.

The N8's road to release has not been trouble-free. The smartphone was delayed several times, stalling Nokia's high-end smartphone lineup for the first three quarters of 2010. In April, a Russian blogger acquired a prototype N8 and published a critical review. Several months later, Nokia contacted the Russian police in order to recover the lost device.

The incident echoed the "lost" iPhone 4 saga. After Jason Chen, an editor for Gizmodo, released a hands-on look at a prototype iPhone 4, California authorities confiscated computers, servers, and phones from Chen's residence.

Apple CEO Steve Jobs insisted the prototype was stolen and that Gizmodo had tried to extort Apple.
post #2 of 66
Sounds like a possible theme for a game:

Can you keep mgmt from falling like flies? Doesn't seeem to be any high scores yet.
post #3 of 66
I quite like the appearance of this phone, but I really do think they need to go down the Android path. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did, and I don't see how or why Nokia wouldn't go with Android.
post #4 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I quite like the appearance of this phone, but I really do think they need to go down the Android path. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did, and I don't see how or why Nokia wouldn't go with Android.

And that'll make them just another Android manufacturer. Dependent on Google. A slave to Google. Call Android open all you want, it'll live or die by Google's hands. Nokia's not desperate. They may not be that hot in the U.S. but as long as they still have the greater marketshare worldwide don't expect them to sleep with Google.
post #5 of 66
Nothing beats a good megapixel! You get an impressive-sounding buzzword, worse quality photos (more MP = higher noise) and as a bonus, tons of wasted storage space

Heres the official site: http://events.nokia.com/NokiaN8/
post #6 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I quite like the appearance of this phone, but I really do think they need to go down the Android path. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did, and I don't see how or why Nokia wouldn't go with Android.

Nokia has better development tools then Android. They acquired TrollTech for them. There just isn't enough developer interest in Nokia's platform by app developers because they don't have much of the high end market share.

Android is hampered by lack of focus toward developers. To see a real competitor to the iphone something would need to happen to bring together all the best traits of the competition. Each company does one thing right, but that isn't enough.

The only advantage I see to Android is that some developers (or clients commissioning apps) want to target it at a loss (with a more limited version usually) because it is the only non-Apple platform that feels like it may have some kind of future success because it is multi-vendor. Personally, I don't see how Android could catch up to the iPhone without a radical change in strategy. They at least need to focus more on developers, because the tools are much more limited then the iPhone. They implemented what was easy and now feel like they have stalled out.

Nokia can at least focus Symbian and QT on their medium to low end phones targeted to users that have no (or little) interest in apps. I am really curious what would happen if Apple were to enter the low end phone market.
post #7 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I quite like the appearance of this phone, but I really do think they need to go down the Android path. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did, and I don't see how or why Nokia wouldn't go with Android.

What for? They still sell a lot more smartphones that either Android or Apple.
post #8 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Nothing beats a good megapixel! You get an impressive-sounding buzzword, worse quality photos (more MP = higher noise) and as a bonus, tons of wasted storage space

Except they have placed a large sensor in the phone, reducing the noise. And disk is cheap, just buy some more.
post #9 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I quite like the appearance of this phone, but I really do think they need to go down the Android path. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did, and I don't see how or why Nokia wouldn't go with Android.

Go to the OS that even Google themselves reluctant to support in a larger form (tablet)? What's the benefit?
post #10 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

What for? They still sell a lot more smartphones that either Android or Apple.

And paperclips outsell iPhones a billion to one, but I’d rather be part of the company that makes the money from their sales. Nokia lost to Apple in one year in terms of profit for the entire handset market. With the reemergence of other players using Android and RiM on the rise it’s possible they could be pretty low on worldwide handsets profits in short order. That is what good companies care about, not how many they sold or there would be mo premium markets. If you can make great profits from excessive sales numbers, so be it, but they aren’t. There is one way out of this hold for them: becoming a smartphone player again, and there aren’t many option for them before the window closes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Go to the OS that even Google themselves reluctant to support in a larger form (tablet)? What's the benefit?

It’s simple, but I’ll use bullet points to try to make it very clear because at this point there aren’t many viable options for Nokia…
  • Nokia has extensive handset knowledge.
  • Nokia has a very strong support for their products (when they are building decent products), much like Apple.
  • Nokia’s largest flaw is their OS.
  • Nokia can spend years trying to make their own modern, Linux-based mobile OS while losing even more marketshare and potentially losing any real smartphone business and name or they take the free Android as their base and button it up in way that Verizon, Sprint, Moto or HTC could come close to making their Nokia phones the best Android-bsed phones on the market.

And they don’t even have to market it as Android, because they are getting is that modern foundation to create a platform that is uniquely Nokia, with Nokia’s DNA, and Nokia expertise. They could even have their own app store for their Nokia phones that are tested and guaranteed to work these select smartphones, something severely lacking in the Android Market. This would bring consumer confidence and get Nokia back in the running years earlier than they could from trying to start from scratch, because unless they have some super secret mobile OS in the works there current offerings aren’t going to cut it.
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post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Nokia has better development tools then Android. They acquired TrollTech for them. There just isn't enough developer interest in Nokia's platform by app developers because they don't have much of the high end market share.

Nokia has the worst mobile OS, i.e. Symbian. That why it is down now. As a former Symbian developer, and current iPhone developer, I can say iOS is light years ahead of Symbian. Symbian is designed by some guy who can read UML books but do not know how to write code.
post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwoodenhead View Post

Nokia has the worst mobile OS, i.e. Symbian. That why it is down now. As a former Symbian developer, and current iPhone developer, I can say iOS is light years ahead of Symbian. Symbian is designed by some guy who can read UML books but do not know how to write code.

Welcome! Some have suggested that Nokia partner with HP and utilize Palm OS. Can you comment on the relative merits of Symbian vs Palm OS?
post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Nothing beats a good megapixel! You get an impressive-sounding buzzword, worse quality photos (more MP = higher noise) and as a bonus, tons of wasted storage space

Didn't you hear? The N8 100% pwns because it has 12 megapixels! Double rainbow!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Here’s the official site:http://events.nokia.com/NokiaN8/

Hmm... Seems to have Flash on it. That runs on all Nokia smartphones, right? Because only Apple is super-anti-Flash, right? Oh, wait...

If Nokia, SonyE, Samsung, LG and even MSoft stop blowing wads of cash like insane mofos on Advertising, maybe they could actually make decent software and hardware products. Samsung, LG and Moto basically had someone else, ie. Google do all the development and are luckily profiting from that.

Have you seen all the advertising for mobile phones lately? I mean, it's all just far-out nonsense that is far, far from what the actual phone products are.

Honestly, I hate the mobile phone industry. Apple ain't perfect, but at least they shoved a few sticks up some collective lazy, bloated, stagnant, complacent corporate asses. Even Moto is so desperately beholden to Verizon that Moto phones are hardly found outside of the US. So they are just surviving, strung along on carrier carrots.
post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hmm... Seems to have Flash on it. That runs on all Nokia smartphones, right? Because only Apple is super-anti-Flash, right? Oh, wait...

In Nokia’s defense, the lack of Flash on Symbian is because Adobe is still trying to get it working right on Android. In Adobe’s defense, they have beter things to throw money at than Symbian.

I’m curious to see that that S60 browser is on that N8. I assume it’s still using v3.
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post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I quite like the appearance of this phone, but I really do think they need to go down the Android path. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did, and I don't see how or why Nokia wouldn't go with Android.

They will go the Linux+Qt route as they spent a crap load of money on Qt which is a far superior set of frameworks than Android.
post #16 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

They will go the Linux+Qt route as they spent a crap load of money on Qt which is a far superior set of frameworks than Android.

So far I havent seen anything from the TrollTech acquisition in 2008 that is sounding any bells. And believe me Im looking (and waiting) for an opportunity to buy back into Nokia.
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post #17 of 66
12 megapixels? No way those pinhole lenses are going to give 12-megapixels' worth of quality image.

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post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

12 megapixels? No way those pinhole lenses are going to give 12-megapixels' worth of quality image.

If you think the iPhone 4 with a 5Mpx camera does a good job for a phone, then the Nokia N8 with a 12Mpx camera and whole slew of other camera features for that increased optics component should be very, very impressive. If you really want a more powerful camera in your phone then I can see the N8 being a strong option. Personally, removing cameras from all cellphones wouldnt phase me a bit.

Also note that it looks like both the iPhone 4 at 5Mpx and the Nokia N8 at 12Mpx use 1.75μm (micron) pixels. That means that the Nokia N8 has an 240% more sensor area for capturing light without the added noise that is attributed from using smaller microns with the same size lens, like we see with the 7Mpx camera at 1.4μm in competitors phones.

I cant attest to the software side of things, but Id wager this thing takes great pics. Of course, youll have to offload them to a real display and possibly print them to really see how much better the N8 is over smartphones.
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post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

In Nokias defense, the lack of Flash on Symbian is because Adobe is still trying to get it working right on Android. In Adobes defense, they have beter things to throw money at than Symbian.

Nokia has stated that S^3 supports Flash Lite 4.0, which is meant to support a heap of Flash 10.1 content.
post #20 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So far I havent seen anything from the TrollTech acquisition in 2008 that is sounding any bells. And believe me Im looking (and waiting) for an opportunity to buy back into Nokia.

I'm sure that the vast majority of apps written for the N8 will be written in Qt. Especially as the same applications will work on the Maemo-based N900.
post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

12 megapixels? No way those pinhole lenses are going to give 12-megapixels' worth of quality image.

What barrell have you been living in? It's been a well known fact that the N8 has the physically largest sensor of any phone at the moment and larger than most good point-and-shoot cameras. It won't match an SLR, but for most other types of cameras, it is comparative.

The test images and videos prove that the N8s camera is in fact bloody good. At first look, better than iP4, but that needs to be tested with production equipment before giving a final verdict.

The N8 is likely far from perfect and inferior in many places to iPhone, but it does deliver on several fronts where Apple doesn't (camera, HDMI, FM transmitter, multitasking etc.). I'd wait a while for unbiased reviews of the production devices before giving a verdict in any direction.

Also the E7 looks like a device that many have been waiting.

Regs, Jarkko
post #22 of 66
Symbian is outdated. As a camera and phone combo, the N8 is great. The sensor inside is much larger than other phones, 1/1.83″. Heck, most point and shoots have smaller 1/2.33" sensors. The sample pictures do look impressive for a phone.

N8 as feature phone fails. As a camera and phone combo it shines. Nokia does have a decent OS: Maemo or Meego. If the N8 had that, now that would be something.
post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Nokia has stated that S^3 supports Flash Lite 4.0, which is meant to support a heap of Flash 10.1 content.

Well, will it run the Nokia website and microsites without any problem? Battery life? I'd love to see someone test out Flash on the N8 thoroughly.
post #24 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Well, will it run the Nokia website and microsites without any problem? Battery life? I'd love to see someone test out Flash on the N8 thoroughly.

How would I know, they haven't released it yet. Maybe you should ask Nokia, it is their phone, not mine.
post #25 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Personally, I don't see how Android could catch up to the iPhone without a radical change in strategy.



Android Sales Overtake iPhone in the U.S.
http://gigaom.com/2010/08/02/android...ne-in-the-u-s/


Android sales surge, surpass iPhone
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/a...e-updated/2019
post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

What for? They still sell a lot more smartphones that either Android or Apple.

In fact, they sell more than Android and Apple PUT TOGETHER.
post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Well, will it run the Nokia website and microsites without any problem? Battery life? I'd love to see someone test out Flash on the N8 thoroughly.

I used to own a Nokia N95, which had Flash Lite pre-installed on it. The battery drain was minimal since it only ate up CPU cycles when I was actively browsing the web.

The battery life argument against Flash on mobiles is as stupid as DED's argument against GPS on the same grounds. The amount of time it's used vs. the amount of time the phone spends on standby is minimal. There's far bigger drains on power, such as WiFi and Bluetooth.
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And paperclips outsell iPhones a billion to one, but Id rather be part of the company that makes the money from their sales.

But we are not part of any of these companies. We are consumers.

I'd rather be a consumer of a company which makes products I like. As a consumer, rather than as "part of a company", profits are irrelevant.
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

. The smartphone OS market seems to be consolidating much like the PC market did,

Not yet it is not.

Symbian 3 and Windows 7 are just making their appearances, and it is WAY too soon to count WebOS out.

If anything, the smartphone OS market seems to be blowing wide open.

Look at this:




I see no signs of consolidation.
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

Personally, I don't see how Android could catch up to the iPhone without a radical change in strategy. They at least need to focus more on developers, because the tools are much more limited then the iPhone. They implemented what was easy and now feel like they have stalled out.

Nokia can at least focus Symbian and QT on their medium to low end phones targeted to users that have no (or little) interest in apps. I am really curious what would happen if Apple were to enter the low end phone market.

As Newtron showed, Android marketshare in the US is growing fast, although much of that has to do with the iPhone being AT&T-exclusive. Also, Android marketshare is growing quite quickly worldwide, even in some multicarrier iPhone markets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

The only advantage I see to Android is that some developers (or clients commissioning apps) want to target it at a loss (with a more limited version usually) because it is the only non-Apple platform that feels like it may have some kind of future success because it is multi-vendor.

The only two multivendor solutions I see are Android and Windows Phone 7. I doubt HP will license WebOS, and RIM will never license BlackBerry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s simple, but I’ll use bullet points to try to make it very clear because at this point there aren’t many viable options for Nokia…
  • Nokia has extensive handset knowledge.
  • Nokia has a very strong support for their products (when they are building decent products), much like Apple.
  • Nokia’s largest flaw is their OS.
  • Nokia can spend years trying to make their own modern, Linux-based mobile OS while losing even more marketshare and potentially losing any real smartphone business and name or they take the free Android as their base and button it up in way that Verizon, Sprint, Moto or HTC could come close to making their Nokia phones the best Android-bsed phones on the market.

And they don’t even have to market it as Android, because they are getting is that modern foundation to create a platform that is uniquely Nokia, with Nokia’s DNA, and Nokia expertise.

Only one problem: Patent lawsuits.

Let me explain: Nokia has refused to put OGG Vorbis and Theora support in its phones, because they fear that someday, a patent pool may sue them for doing so. No one has sued anyone on OGG patent infringement, and yet there's enough concern in the industry for Nokia and Apple, among other companies, to avoid OGG completely.

Meanwhile, there is a lawsuit on Android -- a big one. Oracle's suing Google for breaking Java patents. For all Nokia knows, if Oracle wins, then they may start suing every single Android phone maker, looking for severe penalties on every single Android phone they ever sold. Why would Nokia shun a technology that has never had a deep patent infringement lawsuit, and then embrace another technology that does have a patent suit out there in the open? It makes no sense.

So that leaves Windows Phone 7. It has first-class enterprise features, including best-in-class Office support, which can really help Nokia sell phones to businesses. In time, WP7 will have multitasking and other rather important consumer features found in other smartphone platforms. In the meantime, Microsoft is focusing on encouraging app development, understanding that the mobile age is all about the quantity and quality of the app marketplace. Also, with Nokia's expertise in mobile OS development, they could help Microsoft develop WP7 faster than Microsoft otherwise could. A Microsoft-Nokia partnership is a very smart idea.
post #31 of 66
Who cares! This is just 1 in like 500 different cell phones that Nokia puts out every year. that is their business model. GLUTTING UP THE MARKET with sh**! I bet they fill up land fills faster than a small nation with unsold cell phones.
post #32 of 66
Nokia's selection of a new CEO, who is Canadian and has worked in US Enterprise high tech for decades, is a clear signal that they are more looking to take down RIM and other enterprise-driven smartphone sales than compete directly with consumer-driven outfits like iPhone and Android. I say good luck. Nokia phones are much nicer than Blackberries, so no real loss if you ask me.
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post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Who cares! This is just 1 in like 500 different cell phones that Nokia puts out every year. that is their business model. GLUTTING UP THE MARKET with sh**!

That doesn't appear to be Nokia's business model today. We've been told that there will only be one MeeGo handset this year and the rest of Nokia's range has been reduced from a four-digit naming scheme to a single-digit scheme.

Quote:
I bet they fill up land fills faster than a small nation with unsold cell phones.

Most countries are big on phone recycling these days and Nokia are consistently ranked as the greenest technology company around.
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Most countries are big on phone recycling these days and Nokia are consistently ranked as the greenest technology company around.

The Sony Ericsson J10 Elm was recently named the greenest phone on the market. It's also, quite simply, a really nice phone for the price.
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

But we are not part of any of these companies. We are consumers.

I'd rather be a consumer of a company which makes products I like. As a consumer, rather than as "part of a company", profits are irrelevant.

1) Why would you, as a consumer, care of Nokia sold 1M units of 100M units? You shouldn’t so your argument is a lame duck as usual.

2) Nokia is a company, so to claim that Nokia cares about the number of units sold over the total net profit is silly on the face of it. All companies are looking at profits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemikeb View Post

Let me explain: Nokia has refused to put OGG Vorbis and Theora support in its phones, because they fear that someday, a patent pool may sue them for doing so. No one has sued anyone on OGG patent infringement, and yet there's enough concern in the industry for Nokia and Apple, among other companies, to avoid OGG completely.

Meanwhile, there is a lawsuit on Android -- a big one. Oracle's suing Google for breaking Java patents. For all Nokia knows, if Oracle wins, then they may start suing every single Android phone maker, looking for severe penalties on every single Android phone they ever sold. Why would Nokia shun a technology that has never had a deep patent infringement lawsuit, and then embrace another technology that does have a patent suit out there in the open? It makes no sense.

So that leaves Windows Phone 7. It has first-class enterprise features, including best-in-class Office support, which can really help Nokia sell phones to businesses. In time, WP7 will have multitasking and other rather important consumer features found in other smartphone platforms. In the meantime, Microsoft is focusing on encouraging app development, understanding that the mobile age is all about the quantity and quality of the app marketplace. Also, with Nokia's expertise in mobile OS development, they could help Microsoft develop WP7 faster than Microsoft otherwise could. A Microsoft-Nokia partnership is a very smart idea.

I agree that fear of a lawsuit can be a huge deterrent.

I noticed that you didn’t mention Palm. While it’s a moot point now over a year ago I suggested Nokia could buy Palm for WebOS. Of course, that has its own set of hurdles for Nokia and simply may not work with their long term goals. Or maybe they did bid on Palm and lost.
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post #36 of 66
Is there no picture for this thing available yet? Would have liked to see what it looks like.
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post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Who cares!


Best Buy, Amazon, MacMall, NewEgg, millions of consumers, and most of all, every cell carrier worldwide.
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I noticed that you didn’t mention Palm. While it’s a moot point now over a year ago I suggested Nokia could buy Palm for WebOS. Of course, that has its own set of hurdles for Nokia and simply may not work with their long term goals. Or maybe they did bid on Palm and lost.

I thought about mentioning Palm, although I didn't want to mention more than two companies who I think will never license their OS. I'll admit that I think Palm will become irrelevant, but not because of the HP acquisition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Is there no picture for this thing available yet? Would have liked to see what it looks like.

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N8
post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Is there no picture for this thing available yet? Would have liked to see what it looks like.

post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Why would you, as a consumer, care of Nokia sold 1M units of 100M units? You shouldnt so your argument is a lame duck as usual.

Because as a consumer, I care about the ecosystem. For example, Nokia accessories are available pretty much anywhere, including airport gift shops. Same with iPhone stuff.

There are times I buy stuff not because it is better, but instead, because it is more popular. For example, my kid needed to update his MP3 player, and he wanted a Touch. It was an excellent choice because of the ecosystem, among other factors.

Other times I buy stuff that is better for me, despite unpopularity in the market as a whole. But for that kind of stuff, I forgo the ecosystem.

So to answer your question, yes, if a product is 2 orders of magnitude more popular than some other choice, I take that into consideration.

And you may want to familiarize yourself with the meaning of "lame duck" before you use the phrase again. Your choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2) Nokia is a company, so to claim that Nokia cares about the number of units sold over the total net profit is silly on the face of it. All companies are looking at profits.

While you're at it, look up "false dichotomy". Or don't.
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