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iPhone drops to 23.8% smartphone market share, Android jumps to 17% - Page 5

post #161 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323 View Post

I agree with you and disagree with you. Apples only has the monopoly strategy on the USA. Apple does not have a monopoly strategy on other parts of the world. well only with the iphone that is.

Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything. Even their iTunes store isn't a monopoly as many would like to believe.
post #162 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Then don't make that decision for me as well...lets just stick to the subject and leave the personalities and people out of it....too many times these dicussions turn to a personal nature and I hate that.....

Well, many people who claim to be savvy have an entirely distorted, one-dimensional view of the world, as well as a very superficial understanding of that which they claim to be savvy about. It's a fact. So, an appeal to the tech savvy to support an assertion, is not strong support for that assertion. If you don't want their credibility questioned, don't attempt to use it to support your arguments, and don't pretend to tell me how to criticize those arguments.
post #163 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

But not surprising. Here's a question: How much cash flow does Google generate from Android? (It's not a trick question).

I see where you're going with that, but advertisement and information are the revenue source, and it is going to be hard to qualify just how much this is making Google unless Google spells it out. Android users are Google's product far more so than the OS is.
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post #164 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

I see lots of people with iPhone's but I can honestly say I haven't seen a single person with an Android phone. Maybe they are all hiding them. Somebody must be shifting lots of them.

Honestly have you seen the Android Marketplace? It looks so amateurish compared to the AppStore it's unbelievable.

Thats most likely because you dont know what android phones look like.
Either that or you dont go out much.
The HTC desire,sony xperia and samsung galaxy are pretty all android phones.
And they're pretty popular in the UK
post #165 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Ha Ha! Yesterday it was with the likes of Giordano Bruno.

Well, that was mainly a reference to heretics burned at the stake. Context matters.
post #166 of 361
I just got an Android phone :/

I really wanted to get an iphone 4 (I know, me of all people) but AT&T's 2GB datacap really turned me off. I've had my android for just under a week now and I've already gotten past 1GB of usage. I mean, imagine how much it would cost me for the iphone 4 which is just as data intensive as Android.

AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.

I do like this Galaxy S though. It takes good pictures and excellent video, it's quick, and it does everything I want. Well, maybe not everything. That video editing on the iphone is nice.

As soon as iphone is back with a company in the US with unlimited data, I think I'm getting one.
post #167 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by demitri View Post

Thats most likely because you dont know what android phones look like.
Either that or you dont go out much.
The HTC desire,sony xperia and samsung galaxy are pretty all android phones.
And they're pretty popular in the UK

I see a lot of Droid phones out here myself (mostly because Verizon is way better here than AT&T). Nowhere near as many as I see iPhones, but that's a good point. People probably see more Android phones than they think because Android can appear in all manner of relatively normal-looking smartphones. It might be in a fairly sleek-looking EVO, or that crappy POS plastic keyboard phone.

The Android market is trash, though. There are some gems, but the sheer volume of trash applications is mind-boggling. I thought the App Store was bad...
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post #168 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I really wanted to get an iphone 4 (I know, me of all people) but AT&T's 2GB datacap really turned me off. I've had my android for just under a week now and I've already gotten past 1GB of usage. I mean, imagine how much it would cost me for the iphone 4 which is just as data intensive as Android.

AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.

At this point I'd agree with you about AT&T. People overlook a lot of good that the agreement Apple had with them through the starting days did for the iPhone, though. Apple needed a lot of leverage to make this happen and AT&T made that possible (even if they kept urinating along the trail as Apple pulled them along, kicking and screaming).

Today, though, you can probably expect Verizon and AT&T to eventually sync with data. Verizon isn't going to keep offering it for free if their network feels the hurt. Smaller companies like Sprint and T-Mobile may but that's because they don't have to deal with the same network stress. In any case, it is sad, because the right solution would be to heavily invest in the idea of unlimited data—a long term strategy. I acknowledge the possibility that they may be doing just this, and simply have to deal with short-term limitations, but I don't know. I tend to come in on the negative side when guessing the motives of wireless mobile companies.
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post #169 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Well, sure, Apple could rush out the gate with a very different iPhone for Verizon, but it makes sense to wait until they can release a universally compatible device.

Exactly, knowing how dedicated Apple is to a consistent user experience and knowing how different both carrier's networks are, Apple would more than likely end up with a iPhone for Verizon that didn't perform in the exact same manner as the ATT version and that, in Apple's eye, is a no-no.

i.e. ATT you can access data and voice at the same time, Verizon you can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

In any case, Android is rising because it is a successful OEM product which is appearing on all manner of fine and crappy devices. Any decline in marketshare for Apple at this point is not because Apple is losing sales, but rather because Android is selling more.

I personally feel Andriod is surging because of their 100% subsidized pricing on most of their phones. Just imagine is ATT offered free iPhones with a contract...
post #170 of 361
IPHONE Multi-carrier availability is coming sooner than we think and this should boost IPHONE IOS rankings and put it on a more even playing field with Android.

Many people are more loyal to their carriers than we think, others do not want to go through the hassle of changing carriers just for a particular phone. Lastly some companies offer a big discount but only at one carrier which keeps the persaon at that carrier.
post #171 of 361
android US market share = 17%


Google's revenue from android = ZERO
post #172 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Something that cannot be emphasized too much. Apple is essentially a creative company, Google a destructive company. Apple creates revolutionary devices and paradigms, while Google copies and attempts to succeed by undermining competitors, rather than the strength of it's own efforts. Google are like the barbarians at the gates, unable to create their own rich civilization, their only goal is to plunder that of others.

i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:

MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.

undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.

it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.
post #173 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post

LOL. Funny, but my bud (quoted) is an app developer for iPhone and an IT network admin using Macs/iPhones, so he's definitely not clueless.

Go into a store, check out an Incredible or a Droid X or a Droid 2 or a Samsung Galaxy S, and you'll see what customization is all about. That's one thing I really like about Android--my phone's UI looks completely different from anybody else's while iPhone's UIs all look alike--kinda like clones.

Dude, it's OK to accept that iPhone has set the standard by which all other phones have been measured. But now it's also OK to accept the fact that it's now been surpassed by Android.

Funny, as an android dev my opinion is the opposite. My iPhone4 is much better than my HTC Incredible IMO.
post #174 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

I agree. Apple's strategy is based on monopoly and early lead, the same strategy used 25 years ago for the Mac. Windows 95 crushed Apple once and Android is poised to do the same in the smartphone market. Alas.

At best, Apple's strategy can only lead to an early success followed by a downfall to a 5% world market share. Some people never learn. Greed and supersized egos. Alas.


\\\

"Monopoly"? You must mean "integrated hardware/software platform" I don't know that Apple's strategy of "integrated hardware/software platform" is based on "greed and super sized egos" any more than it makes sense to say that for Palm, Nokia, RIM, for even successful integrated platforms like Nintendo Wii, Microsoft Xbox or Sony Playstation.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #175 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by msheredy View Post

I personally feel Andriod is surging because of their 100% subsidized pricing on most of their phones. Just imagine is ATT offered free iPhones with a contract...

I imagine that plays into it to. And also, the 'open' aspect of Android people seem to dislike talking about: the carriers are free to screw up the Android experience in any way they wish. It is quite carrier-frieldly. I do think it is shortsighted for carriers to overlook the potential of their own high-quality platform, though. People laugh at RIM, but their position in this market isn't exactly laughable. Nokia is the one that falls into that position.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
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post #176 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

android US market share = 17%
Google's revenue from android = ZERO

Google didn't jump into this market as a courtesy.
They absolutely are making money; they are securing their industry.

When they aren't making money is when Verizon locks customers in with Bing.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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post #177 of 361
Not sure why but these news makes me happy. I really loved the first iPhone because no one had it, and I felt like I had a phone from the future. Now everyone and their grand-ma have an iPhone.

Android can be number one if you ask me. Being number one is not in Apple's DNA.
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post #178 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post

I had to borrow a friends android phone while camping. My iPhone had no signal, and his had a weak one.

You're holding it wrong!
post #179 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

They are just vastly easier to use! They don't "hide all the options" - you obviously don't know what you are talking about

I like all of the variations of SMS tone. My favorite part is when I'm in a meeting and that familiar tone goes off and 10 people reach for their phones...
post #180 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:

MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.

undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.

it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.

Myth. Steve gave Xerox some phat Apple stock options for access to PARC. Also, Apple created certain UI concepts such as the trash can, menubar, that Windows cloned, and that is what Apple sued over. But these facts are usually forgotten in the mad rush to post something negative about Apple. You are forgiven

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #181 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimbdd View Post

googles not pushing adds to anyones phone right now. So thats nothing more then a rumor... and we now how rumors are around here... so ... and um my device is very functional? and my battery lasts longer then my fathers iphone 4. so many fan boys here that dont know anything...

Google is a cool company, but the only reason they have released Android is to make money on it. If they are not charging smart phone manufacturers for Android, they will have to use some other method to make money on it. The only method that Google uses to make money is to sell advertisement.

If Google chooses not to sell advertisement via Android-powered smart phones, they will either have to start charging smart phone manufacturers or the Android project will be dropped just like Google has dropped hundreds of other projects that they started. I once interviewed for Google, and I was told by their folks that most of their projects are in beta for years, and they never get out of beta. Android got out of beta, but without a profit-generating model, it will fizzle out. Enough said.
post #182 of 361
Yeah........Verizon is a whole lot better.

Verizon has already stated they will be moving to limited data plans .

You get a Verizon App Store with all of Verizon's crappy services.

Verizon's crappy Skype deal that doesn't work over WiFi and uses your mobile minutes for local calls.

In addition to paying extra for visual voicemail. Its difficult to see how Apple and Verizon can work together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I just got an Android phone :/]
AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.

As soon as iphone is back with a company in the US with unlimited data, I think I'm getting one.
post #183 of 361
Its not the mobile carriers being lazy. This is a law of physics limitation. There isn't enough physical bandwidth to give everyone unlimited data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

In any case, it is sad, because the right solution would be to heavily invest in the idea of unlimited dataa long term strategy. I acknowledge the possibility that they may be doing just this, and simply have to deal with short-term limitations, but I don't know. I tend to come in on the negative side when guessing the motives of wireless mobile companies.
post #184 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:

MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.

undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.

it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.

First, and ignoring your irrelevant comments regarding walled gardens, etc., there is a considerable difference in, to use your example, they way Apple developed, extended and brought to market the idea of the GUI as a way of interacting with personal computers and the way Google simply takes something, knocks out a cheap copy of it and dumps it on the market in order to overrun the market and turn it into an advertising and data collection opportunity. If you can't see the distinction, then you need read no further.

Secondly, there is a difference between engaging in competition through best efforts and competing by undermining a competitor. In the former case, Apple, actually invests creative energy in creating and improving products and services to compete. In the latter, Google, product dumping (and there's really no other description for how Google operates) is employed to take over markets where one does not have a truly compelling offering.

Google's entire strategy for success is to destroy. Apple's is to create. This is obvious to anyone who looks critically at how the two companies operate.
post #185 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Myth. Steve gave Xerox some phat Apple stock options for access to PARC. Also, Apple created certain UI concepts such as the trash can, menubar, that Windows cloned, and that is what Apple sued over. But these facts are usually forgotten in the mad rush to post something negative about Apple. You are forgiven

Didn't Apple implement overlapping window, having thought that Xerox had them? And it turned out that Xerox did no such thing, and it was an Apple innovation.

C.
post #186 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its not the mobile carriers being lazy. This is a law of physics limitation. There isn't enough physical bandwidth to give everyone unlimited data.

What exactly is the limit of "physical bandwidth" involved here, and what determines it? And, tossing aside the assumption implicit in your assertion that everyone who had "unlimited data" would use the maximum possible bandwidth at all times, how do you defend the claim that the carriers cannot "physically" provide enough for everyone to have as much as they need?

Frankly, if you are correct, then people are wasting tons of money investing in mobile computing, because it will be destined to be a complete failure in the end. This argument is merely a rationalization by the carriers in defense of maximizing charges to subscribers while investing the minimum possible to upgrade their networks.
post #187 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhammy View Post


One fact, though, is that I'm far from clueless.

I agree ... it's obvious to me that you will have to "up your game" greatly before you can qualify as clueless.
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post #188 of 361
Far be it from all of us smart folks here, to tell Apple how to run their business or make money

Back to work for me, I have bills to pay.

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post #189 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Google's entire strategy for success is to destroy. Apple's is to create. This is obvious to anyone who looks critically at how the two companies operate.

Google has some very clever people. Their solution to the web-search problem was pure genius.
The problem with Google was how they chose to monetize that genius.

When they decided on using advertising and only advertising as their business model I think they took a big step towards the dark side.

Apple makes stuff, and earns profits when customers buy it. I think that is honest and transparent.
Google gives away stuff to create a honey trap, and then sells the collected users on to advertisers.

Both are valid business models. But I think we should remember that Google's first loyalty will always be to their paying customers; the advertisers.

I'd be much less suspicious of them as a company if they just charged for stuff.

C.
post #190 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Google didn't jump into this market as a courtesy.
They absolutely are making money; they are securing their industry.

When they aren't making money is when Verizon locks customers in with Bing.



Where's the money?
post #191 of 361
Good work Google. now it's time to show me the money.



Android US market share = 17%


Google's revenue from android = ZERO
post #192 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

What exactly is the limit of "physical bandwidth" involved here, and what determines it? And, tossing aside the assumption implicit in your assertion that everyone who had "unlimited data" would use the maximum possible bandwidth at all times, how do you defend the claim that the carriers cannot "physically" provide enough for everyone to have as much as they need?

Yes this has been a big part of AT&T's problems, there are too many people trying to use the same limited wireless spectrum at the same time. But over all it sounds like you need to read up more on how wireless spectrum work. Just because you cannot see them doesn't mean they are infinite.

Quote:
Frankly, if you are correct, then people are wasting tons of money investing in mobile computing, because it will be destined to be a complete failure in the end. This argument is merely a rationalization by the carriers in defense of maximizing charges to subscribers while investing the minimum possible to upgrade their networks.

This is quite extreme. The only two options are to provide everyone with unlimited data or the whole thing fails?
post #193 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's not curious at all, for exactly the reasons you give.

Yea I though as much... After all I don't see any reports of market numbers for Jun - Aug (which should be available) and we're likely not to hear any numbers on the 'Jul - Sep' span either.
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post #194 of 361
That's not true. Google's revenue from Android comes from the advertising and the use of its services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

Google's revenue from android = ZERO
post #195 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Directly or overall?

doesn't matter they're practically BOTH ZERO.
post #196 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

That's not true. Google's revenue from Android comes from the advertising and the use of its services.


which is sooooooooooooo TINY it's practically ZERO.
post #197 of 361
Which one should I sell the iPhone 4 for? The HTC Glued Plastic or the Motorola Droid Hyperbole with a 950 megapixel camera that DOES?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #198 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Yes this has been a big part of AT&T's problems, there are too many people trying to use the same limited wireless spectrum at the same time. But over all it sounds like you need to read up more on how wireless spectrum work. Just because you cannot see them doesn't mean they are infinite.



This is quite extreme. The only two options are to provide everyone with unlimited data or the whole thing fails?

My point is that the claim that we are up against some sort of bandwidth wall, as opposed to a carrier created (or uncreated) infrastructure wall, is entirely misleading and, if true at all, is only so in very limited locales.

To your second point, no. First, people don't need "unlimited" data as in "infinite" data. They need some finite amount that is, in most cases, just enough more than what carriers will allow them without hitting them with additional charges. Secondly, if we are now up against a "physical bandwidth" wall, then, no growth is possible in mobile. Clearly that's not the case, and the "bandwidth wall" is so far away that it cannot in most cases even be seen. What we are up against is a carrier infrastructure wall.
post #199 of 361
Google is making nearly $7 billion per quarter this year. How much of that comes from services on Android only Google really knows. With millions of Android phones being sold, I'm sure they expect it to be a growing part of their business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

which is sooooooooooooo TINY it's practically ZERO.
post #200 of 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesw View Post

Good work Google. now it's time to show me the money.



Android US market share = 17%


Google's revenue from android = ZERO

Why??? so what...what does that mean then? They give something away so it can generate revenue by other streams...so........

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