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Best Buy CEO says Apple's iPad has halved some notebook sales - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I can't find the tv tuner option, and the hole-shit processor I saw on it is the standard atom processor in pretty much all netbooks.

its not a bad netbook but i am holding out for N550 dual core atom 2+ram and 12" screen. dell has a neat little mz101 something or other with athlon neo but the battery life is not so hot.
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Check out the Dell mini 10. All day battery, hot-shit processor, wireless n. You can even get a TV tuner built in, and a huge hard drive for watching movies on the go. It plays Flash and every other streaming video format without any problems.

It has much expanded capabilities over any iPad, and it starts at half the price (without the TV tuner).

Would that be the awesome Dell Mini 10 (nice hardware config btw) running Windows 7 Starter? Which does not include:

>Aero Glass, meaning you can only use the “Windows Basic” or other opaque themes. It also means you do not get Taskbar Previews or Aero Peek.
>Personalization features for changing desktop backgrounds, window colors, or sound schemes.
>The ability to switch between users without having to log off.
>Multi-monitor support.
>DVD playback.
>Windows Media Center for watching recorded TV or other media.
>Remote Media Streaming for streaming your music, videos, and recorded TV from your home computer.
>Domain support for business customers.
>XP Mode for those that want the ability to run older Windows XP programs on Windows 7.
>or touch interface.


Since all a netbook is, is a small form factor notebook/lappy (which physical format I personally find annoying - but that's just my personal preference) - how is this actually better or a direct competitor to the iPad. See this is where things get difficult. Most consumers recognize this simple fact - that a netbook is just another form of laptop/notebook computer. The iPad is in fact a different form factor that people seem to resonate better with - at least judging from consumer purchase results being reported. So there is more happening here than simply cost-savings and feature sets. But most geeks can't get past the cheaper/more features paradigm that we/they cling to. It apparently doesn't matter to the average consumer if it is cheaper or has more features. If the interface is still kludgey and cramped and annoying, they don't want it. A smooth, direct touch interface has been demonstrated as being preferable to the old interface, based on these reports. Right wrong or indifferent, Apple has forced a paradigm shift in consumer expectation around what the interface should look like and how it should behave. First with the iPhone/iPod Touch and then with the iPad.

The discussion moves from how it is built features-wise, to how it ACTS. So the whole power/features categories lose some relevancy in the face of the actual behaviors of the interface and convenience of the device.

Let's take this back to the Dell mini 10 for example. Arguable a nice little netbook/notebook, which is set-up to run out of the box with a low-profile version of Windows 7. So right out of the box, the average user, used to the feature set of Windows 7 is faced with a reduced and constricted version that doesn't act like it's full version counterparts - not a happy place for the average consumer. If it is Windows 7 then it should act and behave like Windows 7, period. We geeks know better, but when it comes to purchasing power - there's a lot more average consumers than there is of us - so you HAVE to speak to these expectations if you want marketshare.

Then let's look at the physical package - like every other netbook/notebook/lappy, it folds - you have to open it to use it and wait while it boots up or recovers from sleep mode. It boots slow according to reviews, so that's not a happy place with consumers either. It's a (relatively) hefty 3 lbs (heavier than the Toshiba competition in this class), nearly 1.5 inches thick, they switched out the touch pad driver to the Synaptics driver that doesn't support a multitouch interface, and if you push the (fairly nice - the Intel Atom PineTrail N450) it gets pretty hot - measured up to an uncomfortable 120 degrees F.

Compare to the "instant-on" iPad, with a simple app interface that let's the average person just "touch-and-go" with their installed apps. It's a slim 1.6 lbs and just .5 inches thick with a screen roughly the same size as the mini but slightly higher resolution, and it runs cooler even when pushing the processor. These are all big pluses in the average consumer mindset.

We as geeks just don't seem to get that the average consumer has tolerated a lot, and will tolerate a lot, unless they are shown something they see as better. Then they will set that as their standard and the rest had better speak to it. They don't have the technical resources we have - and DON'T want THEM. Make the machine work the way they want it to work - not make them work the way the machine wants them to work. It's simple and profound - and we tend to not get it.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

they must be selling to someone but i find it odd that when i go to starbucks i have not seen a single ipad since they came out. in fact i was in one large starbucks and looked around and there were about 12 laptops being used. 1 was a mac the rest looked to be hp's and dell's. most looked like full size laptops not many were netbooks that i could make out. could have been the part of town i was in just wasn't 'hip'

Now if you sought out the organic artisan roasted coffee house, there, you would find the iPads.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #44 of 58
We as geeks just don't seem to get that the average consumer has tolerated a lot, and will tolerate a lot, unless they are shown something they see as better. Then they will set that as their standard and the rest had better speak to it. They don't have the technical resources we have - and DON'T want THEM. Make the machine work the way they want it to work - not make them work the way the machine wants them to work. It's simple and profound - and we tend to not get it.[/QUOTE]

too harsh. removed.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

We as geeks just don't seem to get that the average consumer has tolerated a lot, and will tolerate a lot, unless they are shown something they see as better. Then they will set that as their standard and the rest had better speak to it. They don't have the technical resources we have - and DON'T want THEM. Make the machine work the way they want it to work - not make them work the way the machine wants them to work. It's simple and profound - and we tend to not get it.

making devices for the lazy and stupid is not profound unless you are talking about methods to relieve them of their money...
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Or maybe people are just getting dumber. I love my iPad, but yeah, imagine those who find netbooks too complicated (the fact that they are crap anyway notwithstanding)...

If you are smart enough to buy an Apple product, my hat is off to you.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

Maybe the congress could be changed into something as efficient as the appstore.

As Newtron said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Unlikely.
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post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

.. Even Exxon Mobile has committed far worse crimes against humanity (and not just because it was making a boatload of money, as you seem to imply), yet the "Justice" department has done nothing.

Antitrust doesn't have anything to do with "crimes against humanity", besides, XOM has plenty of competition.

I don't believe AAPL is in the DOJ's sights at all, but considering they're well on their way to monopolizing the mobile device market, it's a concern. A happy one, to be sure.

Few people foresee major tectonic shifts in markets - I think the iPad is the beginning of a huge shift for mobile devices. As far as consumer devices are concerned, MSFT may be well on its way to irrelevance - outside the enterprise market, that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Good thing Microsoft is incompetent, otherwise we would be seeing no Apple at all today, and where would we would be without the iPhone to show others how interface design should be?

C\>
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post #49 of 58
"The reports of the demise of these devices are grossly exaggerated," Dunn said. "While they were fueled in part by a comment in the Wall Street Journal that was attributed to me, they are not an accurate depiction of what we're currently seeing. In fact, we see some shifts in consumption patterns, with tablet sales being an incremental opportunity. And as we said during our recent earnings call, we believe computers will remain a very popular gift this holiday because of the very distinct and desirable benefits they offer consumers. That's why we intend to carry a broad selection of computing products and accessories to address the demand we anticipate this season."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/i...-best-buy-ceo/
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

That just shows that people were previously buying something more complicated than they really needed. This is a good thing, it means people are saving money, getting something closer to their needs. Or from a whole-of-society perspective, things just got more efficient.

Yup! Many people bought general purpose computers because there wasn't previously a real alternative for them. The iPad is, for the first time, offering the real "computer for the rest of us". As Apple matures the iOS platform, I look for this cannibalization to really accelerate. Makers like Acer must really be crapping their pants right about now...
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Otherwise I'd maybe agree, but saving money? With an iPad vs. Netbook?

Sure - about 50% of the people I know with netbooks have stopped using them. The experience sucks - even if you almost double up on the original purchase price to max out the RAM, upgrade the hard drive and otherwise complete them to make them somewhat useable.

Quote:
If we talk about a trasition to tablets in general. Maybe, when competing and cheaper tablets come into play. Majority will likely buy cheaper comparable tablets, which fill their needs well enough (people tend to be cheap in general). Kind of like Macbooks vs. other notebooks.

I don't think so. Fool me once.... People tried cheap and found the experience wanting.

Above all people want an appliance. Something they can turn on and "it just works". While not perfect, the iPad, overall, is miles above a netbook or PC running Windows (and Mac OSX for that matter) For the average person who wants to just do things instead inheriting another hobby in and of itself (the care and feeding for the typical general purpose computer).

Heck, I'm a geek, I twiddle bits on enterprise solutions daily, I have a Mac Pro I use for Aperture and Final Cut - but when I want to relax, it's so refreshing to just grab my iPad and not have to think about the device. It's transparent. I think about doing things, not the device itself. For techies that's a subtle distinction. For the average, non-technical person it's huge - and something they immediately pick up on when they see it, especially when their friends have one and use it in front of them.

So back to price - the iPod already proved that if you have a compelling story, that whole conventional wisdom that lowest price wins pretty much goes out the window. So will be the same with the iPad.

And BTW - Apple is already at the $500 price point. In a year or two they will be under that - who the heck is going to be able to compete with that? Look at the costs of the Samsung tablet? What a joke! 2 year contract? Yeah, that's going to be popular! For a 2 year contract the darn thing should be free! This whole "Apple is expensive" meme gets more ridiculous the longer it goes on. It didn't affect the iPod, it didn't affect the iPhone and it will have zero impact on the iPad. None of the events that enabled the whole PC/Mac thing of the '90s to happen are in play today - those comparisons are even more inane
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

It's not that it's difficult, it's that it's different.

And for techies this might be hard to comprehend, but there are still <gasp> lots of people who don't use computers!

Mac OSX and Windows both are unappealing to them. And it has nothing to do with intelligence despite the snide comments from elitist hacks. For them, the iPad is a much more appealing solution.
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

The Justice Dept will slice Apple into several pieces long before that would ever happen.

Based on what? To big to succeed?

Actually with the current political climate such an idiotic ideal is probably feasible
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

Republicans don't want to agree with Democrats, and Democrats are pushing for economic stimulus packages

Republicans might be "not agreeing with Democrats" (along with the majority of the country) that what the Democrats are pushing isn't economic stimulus but a further economic disaster.

And I thought the democrats had a majority in the Senate, House and the sitting President? They didn't have any problem passing "health care" that over 60% of the country didn't want so now all the sudden "the Republicans" are the problem?

Really? People honestly buy into this crap? Then again perhaps people are waking up - even I'm surprised by the success of the tea party candidates. Maybe there is hope for people to move beyond this two party BS that has just about killed our country as both democrats and republicans essentially have merged on the "what's in it for me" front and spent us into oblivion while lining their pockets.

Worried about wasting your vote? Vote for either major party

As for:
Quote:
Summer 2011 : Steve Jobs announces that a few billion $ out of Apple's cash
will be used to launch Apple's largest private satellite constellation

I wonder if Iridium is still for sale or they have been de-orbited yet
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Check out the Dell mini 10. All day battery, hot-shit processor, wireless n. You can even get a TV tuner built in, and a huge hard drive for watching movies on the go. It plays Flash and every other streaming video format without any problems.

Those are all features. Geeks may like features for the sake of features, but normal people don't care just about features - they want the whole enchilada. That's why the iPad will continue to be popular, and netbooks will continue to be "meh".
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

I really like my iPad, but so far it never came to my mind as to hug it. But yeah lovely picture. Wish you two good luck.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple

post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Unlikely.

Can you back it up with some evidence? Otherwise it's just hot air. Secondly, thanks for trying to refute my argument by putting words into my mouth by quoting me out of context. I wasn't saying the Justice department is cheering for Apple, I was saying it was cheering for their business model, because frankly, that's the business model that most companies should follow. A vertically integrated model that competes on its own merits in the market. It's not like it's where Windows, where people are locked into applications that only work on Windows (to some extent, this is also true of Macs, but it's less of a problem simply because less people have them), but IMHO are getting crappy hardware to boot with their crappy software. Windows 7 is fine, but any WIndows before that is well, terrible. I've had dog food that tasted better than me using Windows.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Based on what? To big to succeed?

Yes. And MSFT will get a taxpayer bailout. Think of all those unionized code monkeys out of work - oh, wait...
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