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Morgan Stanley: Apple's iPad consuming 25% of PC notebook sales - Page 2

post #41 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRankin View Post

I have a friend who bought a iPad for their parents. Apple got their iPad "started" somehow and the parents just use it at their home on WiFi only. They do not own a home computer at all.
So apparently it can be done that way.

Since I recharged my Ipad into a wall plug-in my Ipad was not sync for more than a month now. I can still update apps or buy new ones. So its works without a Pc no problem.
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post #42 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

You (both) clearly must have missed the part wherein I specifically pointed to MacBook sales... as in Apple's entry-level notebook, NOT the entire line of Macintosh computers.

Nice try, but you should have checked your facts first. Now you just look desperate not to be wrong, which you are, again.
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post #43 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:10am
Will be interesting to see the next quarter macbook and MCP sales numbers. I am kind of expecting at least macbook to be hurt by the ipad. But it may get blurr by the fact Apple Mac's are eating up the PC market share.

In fact, if you include the ipad in the laptop market share, you will get pretty interesting numbers. But analysts will probably make tablets a category by itself.
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post #44 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Possibly, but for the first time in many years I'm considering a desktop as my next computer. I've been choosing a laptop as a compromise between power and portability; but if the iPad can do 95%of what I need the portability for, then I could get a much more powerful iMac for the same price as a MBP.

And I'd only get the iMac for photo and video processing (as a hobby). I'm guessing many people would consider an iPad sufficient to put off replacing a computer or decide to not make the switch to a laptop. Just keep their desktop and get an iPad for on-the-go email and web. Either choice would erode laptop sales.

i am so in agreement. toting the 17" mbp around no more! not going over 3 pounds lol. would love an Air so waiting to see what they do. the ipad is nice but i need a little bit more flexibility right now. the ipad will get there probably next year though.
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post #45 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:24am
This is no surprise to me! For years I been wondering why people would prefer to replace there desktop which clearly more powerful, more bang for the buck, and much more real-estate than laptops. But I guess it's because people wanted portable computing if if only for surfing the web or checking email. So in that case the notebook was the clear choice. But now with iPhones, iPod touches and now The iPad. Mobile computing has evolved quite nicely. Now we can have the best of both worlds. For example I do photography on the side of my real job and when I go on a photo shoot I take the iPad and right there I can show my clients the photos on the iPad. They love it. I can also check email, web surf, facebook, twitter, etc. And of course I can also do this from my iPhone too. The iPhone and iPad can carry any data I have synced to it or can retrieve any data I have stored in the cloud. It can play games, my kids can watch movies on a long trip, the list just goes on. There is not much this first generation product CAN NOT do other than somethings that need heavy computing power which I would much rather do on my 27"iMac in the comfort of my own home.
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post #46 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:28am
I wonder how many guys/gals here re-read NOTEBOOKs to confirm they are reading it right.
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post #47 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:36am
You're right, though I do think Apple needs to work on content management for their devices to remove the other reasons for connecting to a computer. I know you can buy and download songs on the device, but many prefer to maintain their much larger libraries and play lists on a computer. Why can't I sync those wirelessly to the device either from a computer, or perhaps from the cloud? I need to look up the transfer rates of USB vs. WiFi N. Maybe those things are coming, but to get these kinds of features today (plus backup of the device), you still need a computer to connect to.
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post #48 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VdkaShaker View Post

You're right, though I do think Apple needs to work on content management for their devices to remove the other reasons for connecting to a computer. I know you can buy and download songs on the device, but many prefer to maintain their much larger libraries and play lists on a computer. Why can't I sync those wirelessly to the device either from a computer, or perhaps from the cloud? I need to look up the transfer rates of USB vs. WiFi N. Maybe those things are coming, but to get these kinds of features today (plus backup of the device), you still need a computer to connect to.

Probably because transferring many gigs of media over Bluetooth or WiFi would be a painful experience. I'm not sure why wireless connections to other devices are seen to be less dependent than wired connections.
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post #49 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:49am
Somewhere, Steve Ballmer is quaking in his shiny leather shoes. Because a decline in notebook sales has a negative impact on demand for preinstalled Windows 7. Perhaps this explains the move to load Windows 7 on a tablet.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #50 of 79
9/17/10 at 12:26pm
I finally found a reason to get an ipad:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/c...much-for-half/

When I move into my new house, I'm going to hook this up to the home theater, and set it on the lamp table next to the couch. It'll be sweeeeet
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post #51 of 79
9/17/10 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think, for the most part, people don't usually make purchasing decisions of computing devices on whether a particular device can do almost everything they need.

Notebooks are great for college students who often go to various places to study and likely have limited desk space where they live, be it dorm of sharing an apartment.

Desktops are perfect for workplace and home offices because they are more ergonomic and easier on the eyes, as well as offer better performance.

iPads are great for couch computing and sales presentations.

If you need portability and compact size, a desktop won't fit the bill. If you need a large monitor and maximum power, a notebook won't do. And if you need a complete filesystem based computer, an iPad can't cut it.

I personally wouldn't choose one over the other based on the overlap in features. They all email, they all surf the web. It is the things that they don't have in common that should be the differentiators in the purchasing decision.

The "almost" in my case is that an iPad would not let me edit my photos on the road. But I could easily trade that off in exchange for having a much more powerful computer at home. Most people aren't editing 18 megapixel photos like I am, and so an iPad could meet ALL of their mobile needs.

The point is that you no longer need to pick one device and make compromises is doing so. I've puchased MBPs as my compromise between needing to be mobile for "some" things and needing power for other things. In the past, buying two Apple products, one desktop and one laptop, was an expensive proposition (I'm ignoring the Mac mini which is nothing more than an immobile laptop). But now you can get two devices for a reasonable price. You can get an iMac which is more powerful than a MBP plus an iPad for less than the cost of the MBP alone. So why buy a laptop if the only mobile functions you need are covered by an lighter, smaller, cheaper device that leaves enough money in your bank account to buy a more powerful desktop machine.

[And as a bonus, if Apple made it so I could use Back To My Mac from an iPad to access that more powerful desktop machine from anywhere in the world, you've now got a very powerful computer in your hands.]
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post #52 of 79
9/17/10 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Probably because transferring many gigs of media over Bluetooth or WiFi would be a painful experience. I'm not sure why wireless connections to other devices are seen to be less dependent than wired connections.

Meh. I routinely have multi-GB TimeMachine backups done over my wireless nework. Most of the time don't even notice it. And really, other than your first sync, how often are you moving that much data?
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post #53 of 79
9/17/10 at 1:03pm
As someone pointed out "it is displacing" the laptop market.

The article makes it sound like it is reducing sales -- which is hard to say.

But since the average laptop is around $600 and so is the iPad -- it is merely a new option. The REVENUE from the channel is not necessarily shrinking.

They need to question buyers to see if they bought an iPad INSTEAD of a laptop -- I have a feeling that MOST people buying the iPad are higher-end buyers who like the convenience of the iPad. So the laptop market is DOWN due to the economy, and iPad is GROWING the market for people with more disposable cash.

I like the iPad -- and for low-end users like grandparents, it's probably a better fit than a laptop. But IMO, it is growing the market in a new segment -- it is NOT a replacement for a full featured laptop.

I also figure schools and hospitals are using getting these devices where they work better than a full-blown laptop.
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post #54 of 79
9/17/10 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Meh. I routinely have multi-GB TimeMachine backups done over my wireless nework. Most of the time don't even notice it. And really, other than your first sync, how often are you moving that much data?

Did you ever notice how fast Time Machine works? It's set to trickle. A incremental backup of a few hundred megabytes can take 15 minutes, easily. It's done that way so the process doesn't saturate your WiFi connection, and that works since you really don't care when it's done. That's also the reason why you hardly notice. Do you remember how long it took for your first Time Machine backup? Several hours, I'm sure. Most of the day perhaps. I don't think that sort of performance would work for shifting media files to an iPad, and the alternative is hogging limited bandwidth.

Anyhow, that's my theory about why Apple hasn't implemented a wireless sync feature for the iPad et al. Maybe you have another?
Please don't be insane.
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post #55 of 79
9/17/10 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I can understand that people might opt for an iPad to complement a desktop over a laptop/netbook but people aren't walking into stores with the intention of buying a laptop and walking out with an iPad. Most laptop buyers don't buy them as accessories to desktops but as desktop replacements and you need either a laptop or desktop to even use an iPad. I would suggest the laptop market is starting to hit saturation given that they've been outselling desktops by 4:1 for a while now. Also, bear in mind this graph shows growth not sales so the number of laptops sold might still be going up, it's just decelerating.

you just need access to a computer for activation/backup/software updates. You don't need to actually have a computer yourself. As long as there's at least one computer in your household/business, an iPad certainly can be used in place of a notebook computer for a given person/task, especially once iOS4.2 is released and you can print from them.
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post #56 of 79
9/17/10 at 1:33pm
The way I see it. The graph will continue going the same direction until all the other iPad competitors come out.
Just in the same way as iPhone users held up from buying the old phone, (they already new pretty much what was coming up a few weeks earlier.)
The same thing is happening with the Netbooks or Notebooks that would be selling now. Why buy?
Any smart buyer would wait to see what the new Wannabees have to offer.
I get a feeling that everything they can get now will be available at a better price or package.
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post #57 of 79
9/17/10 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Nice try, but you should have checked your facts first. Now you just look desperate not to be wrong, which you are, again.

And YOU (as usual) just look like another fanatical _ _ _ _ _ twisting what was actually posted to suit your own misguided desires to be correct...
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #58 of 79
9/17/10 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRankin View Post

the parents just use it at their home on WiFi only. They do not own a home computer at all.

.

How did they configure their router?
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post #59 of 79
9/17/10 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

How did they configure their router?

Dude... Don't ask - because you (likely) already know the answer \
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #60 of 79
9/17/10 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

How did they configure their router?

Any decent isp will do that for you.
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post #61 of 79
9/17/10 at 4:13pm
The iPad can certainly be used stand alone, once it's been configured with iTunes. I was going to do that for a colleague.

The biggest problem with that is if I configured it, it's linked to my laptop. She can't eventually buy a desktop and sync her iPad setup to her new computer. It would delete her music purchases and app purchases. Still, if she was willing to manage it only from the iPad (and never import a CD, for example) it would work well enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post

"it is displacing" the laptop market.

Those stats can be misleading though.
For example, November before last was when the global financial crisis hit (right?), so it can be expected that suddenly people held off laptop purchases - with 2 consequences.
1) with such low sales, one year later it'd show a huge growth in sales.
2) many of those people who held off would have bought their laptops 6 months later, also showing a steeper growth than normal.

I do believe iPad is displacing some of the laptop market, just these stats aren't quite so significant.

I'd like to see an aggregate sales figures, include tablets with laptops
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post #62 of 79
9/17/10 at 5:55pm
Now you're intentionally using "Consuming" in the headline just to get a rise out of the Style & Grammar nazis.
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post #63 of 79
9/17/10 at 5:59pm
Huberty takes typical editorial garbage and creates a whole new story with it...

who woulda thunked it from an analyst

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/17/i...-best-buy-ceo/

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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post #64 of 79
9/17/10 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I bought my Wife an MBP because I thought it would be more convenient than her iMac.

Still not convenient enough for her particular use... so I bought her an iPad. Perfect!!

So now I have the MBP... but again, for my particular needs (I already have my own iMac) I'd rather have an iPad.

It's easy for me to see the target market for the current iPad.

I am not sure about US, but in Mainland europe we call a notebook rather a laptop. Now funnily the lap is actually the place where I never use my MBP I use it as a mobile desktop. Now the iPad is actually a lot bettern at being a "Laptop". My feeling is that this is exactly what is happening. Sitting in a train or at home in a sofa or under a tree or what ever, with an actual laptop on your lap really sucks (my experience), and suddenly the iPad appears and you actually can do all the things most people use their notebooks for on a device sitting as comfortable on your lap as the iPad.
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post #65 of 79
9/17/10 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Good luck with your plea for clarity and the correct use of language. Edwin Newman is dead; long live Edwin Newman.

Among my biggest pet peeves is the term 'commodify' which as used by stock analysts means to turn an erstwhile specialty product into a commodity. But then that word is 'commoditize'. 'Commodify' means to turn something into a commode, which is the polite term for a crapper. [Notice that the villain in Gladiator is named Commodus?]

Another one that drives me batty is 'one of the only'.

And finally, the web poster's favorite 'I could care less'.

Yes, I'm being reaaaaaally petty. That's why it's called a PET peeve.
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post #66 of 79
9/17/10 at 6:57pm
The iPad is a perfect computer replacement - for the second computer. And that is where the growth is - it's an emerging mass market, Apple's favourite. The explosion of netbooks signaled it, then Apple released a better solution with perfect timing. (And Balmer thought they had it covered with netbooks.)

I, like everyone (over 30 at least) started with a desktop, then eventually replaced it with the portability of a notebook. The notebook really felt like a compromise device, but the portability more than made up for it.

Despite the iPad not having a "full OS" like many demanded, it is not a compromise device. It's perfect for tag teaming with a desktop. And as someone else mentioned, the same price as the notebook compromise.

A notebook/iPhone combo seems perfect for students and teenagers, while a desktop/iPad/dumbphone combo is perfect for those who used to be students and teenagers.
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post #67 of 79
9/17/10 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

This article, like the other one about Best Buy, is about notebook, not netbook sales.

What ever it cannot cannibalize anything other than itself or at least Apple products, it was a grammatical comment.
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post #68 of 79
9/17/10 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Among my biggest pet peeves is the term 'commodify' which as used by stock analysts means to turn an erstwhile specialty product into a commodity. But then that word is 'commoditize'. 'Commodify' means to turn something into a commode, which is the polite term for a crapper. [Notice that the villain in Gladiator is named Commodus?]

Another one that drives me batty is 'one of the only'.

And finally, the web poster's favorite 'I could care less'.

Yes, I'm being reaaaaaally petty. That's why it's called a PET peeve.

If you don't feed your pets, they die or go live somewhere else.

Since you brought it up, "commodify" really does mean to turn something into a commodity. The problem with the use of the term is that few things actually deserve that description. A product isn't a commodity just because it's popular. Most of this usage is more lazy than wrong, strictly speaking.

The frequent misuse of the words "unique" and "hopefully" are high on my pet peeve parade.
Please don't be insane.
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post #69 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

There is no genre. There is the iPad. No one is talking about the need for a Windows powered tablet anymore. Everyone is talking about the presently to arrive Android clones [...]
But this is fundamentally an Apple phenomena, and talking about predicted "tablet sales" as a growth industry manages to once again erase immediate history, wherein everything before the iPad was a miserable failure, the iPad's introduction was dismissed by a lot of people as "just a big iPod" with a ludicrously big bezel incapable of doing "real work", and everything with any chance of success, post iPad, is going to copy the iPad model of lightweight OS coupled to app stores and services.

Post of the day... right on!
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post #70 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

But not if a computer is required in order to use the tablet. For those sorts of devices, the tablet cannot replace the computer, but is capable only of supplementing it.

My father connected his iPad to a computer once, to activate it. It hasn't been connected since - nor has he needed it to be.

I'll probably connect it to my MacBook Pro when I visit them this christmas just to get it backed up, but even if he lost it tomorrow he wouldn't loose anything as all his data is already in the cloud.

And don't expect the iTunes requirement to remain forever - it's obvious that was the start because it's infrastructure Apple had already. I expect fully independent iPads by the release of the next version.
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post #71 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

The contortions are fun to watch.

And still irrelevant as sales (and profits) continue to rack up (and spin the trolls up).

Interesting times indeed
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post #72 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

If you don't feed your pets, they die or go live somewhere else.

Since you brought it up, "commodify" really does mean to turn something into a commodity. The problem with the use of the term is that few things actually deserve that description. A product isn't a commodity just because it's popular. Most of this usage is more lazy than wrong, strictly speaking.

The frequent misuse of the words "unique" and "hopefully" are high on my pet peeve parade.

I think the usage train has pretty much left the station on "hopefully." The abuse of "unique" strikes me as an artifact of our advertising driven, hyperbole loving popular culture-- along with the random deployment of "awesome", "stunning" and "brilliant."

Awesome, in particular, apparently now means something like "I can make out what your'e saying" or "I take some mild satisfaction in having my prejudices confirmed", which is quite the demotion indeed.
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post #73 of 79
9/17/10 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Meh. I routinely have multi-GB TimeMachine backups done over my wireless nework. Most of the time don't even notice it. And really, other than your first sync, how often are you moving that much data?

Oh good luck convincing them of this. Wifi syncing is LONG overdue on the iOS and concerns over wifi capabilities are dramatically overblown.
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post #74 of 79
9/18/10 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think the usage train has pretty much left the station on "hopefully." The abuse of "unique" strikes me as an artifact of our advertising driven, hyperbole loving popular culture-- along with the random deployment of "awesome", "stunning" and "brilliant."

Awesome, in particular, apparently now means something like "I can make out what your'e saying" or "I take some mild satisfaction in having my prejudices confirmed", which is quite the demotion indeed.

I know. I'm just trying to keep the memory of Edwin Newman alive for at least one more day, even if it means being dragged into an alley and pistol whipped -- which is what usually happens when you talk about such things here.

Likewise, the meaning of "fantastic" has morphed in common usage from its original meaning of "unrealistic" to "wonderful."

Oh, and don't forget... "magical."
Please don't be insane.
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post #75 of 79
9/18/10 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I can understand that people might opt for an iPad to complement a desktop over a laptop/netbook but people aren't walking into stores with the intention of buying a laptop and walking out with an iPad. Most laptop buyers don't buy them as accessories to desktops but as desktop replacements and you need either a laptop or desktop to even use an iPad. I would suggest the laptop market is starting to hit saturation given that they've been outselling desktops by 4:1 for a while now. Also, bear in mind this graph shows growth not sales so the number of laptops sold might still be going up, it's just decelerating.

You might see people who have a desktop and are shopping for a laptop for portability. They may get in to the store & see the iPad & think "You know, my desktop isn't all that bad and I could get an iPad for portability; save me a little money." I know at least 2-3 people who are making that evaluation right now, they planned on Laptop to replace desktop but now they are thinking they'd rather keep the desktop & add an iPad to compliment.

I'm actually creeping into this crowd myself, might consider jumping ship to desktop with iPad when the next one is released, that is when my laptop is up for replacement. You can get a much more powerful desktop + iPad3G for much less than you can get the most powerful MacBook Pro.

One thing I'd like to see is how the iPad has effected MacBook purchases, wonder if iPad has eaten into those sales the way it has the general laptop market. If it hasn't then that greatly effects the value of the PC laptop market and further adjustment would be needed.
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post #76 of 79
9/18/10 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

And YOU (as usual) just look like another fanatical _ _ _ _ _ twisting what was actually posted to suit your own misguided desires to be correct...

If you want to be relentlessly negative, and you apparently do, about Apple (which pretty much defines you as a troll, when done on an Apple focused site -- obviously you don't come here with any positive intent) that's you prerogative, but, at least be honest in your trolling. Nobody twisted anything, and several posters corrected you. You were completely and utterly wrong in your statements. So, time to just admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.
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post #77 of 79
9/18/10 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Among my biggest pet peeves is the term 'commodify' which as used by stock analysts means to turn an erstwhile specialty product into a commodity. But then that word is 'commoditize'. 'Commodify' means to turn something into a commode, which is the polite term for a crapper. [Notice that the villain in Gladiator is named Commodus?]

Another one that drives me batty is 'one of the only'.

And finally, the web poster's favorite 'I could care less'.

Yes, I'm being reaaaaaally petty. That's why it's called a PET peeve.

Well, my all time favorite from web postings is, "for all intensive purposes."
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post #78 of 79
9/18/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

If you want to be relentlessly negative, and you apparently do, about Apple (which pretty much defines you as a troll, when done on an Apple focused site -- obviously you don't come here with any positive intent) that's you prerogative, but, at least be honest in your trolling. Nobody twisted anything, and several posters corrected you. You were completely and utterly wrong in your statements. So, time to just admit that you didn't know what you were talking about.

I'm using the ignore tool for the first time in the 6 years I've been on this forum. I think you should do it too. Not worth wasting our time or effort, or losing enjoyment of the forums because of certain posters.
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post #79 of 79
9/18/10 at 1:16pm
These are the same analysts who couldn't see the housing bubble and who are now saying that we are in a recovery. They get everything wrong. The fact that discretionary spending continues to contract has more to do with lower sales than the introduction of the iPad.
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