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"I dabbled into witchcraft." Quote NOT by Obama. - Page 4

post #121 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wrong.

So that she lied to get out of her TV appearances and that she wrongly described an alter as a "satanic alter" you will not discuss, except to accuse others of having OCD?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #122 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wrong.

Please, expand on that point. I'm all ears.
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post #123 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

So that she lied to get out of her TV appearances and that she wrongly described an alter as a "satanic alter" you will not discuss, except to accuse others of having OCD?

I didn't say that at all. You seem to be twisting what I've said. First I don't give a shit if she wrongly described tis alter or that alter. I really don't care. If anything it demonstrates that to whatever extent she did "dabble" it must have been pretty minimal if the experts in this thread are to be believed and she doesn't know the difference between these things. Second, I don't know if she lied about getting out of her TV appearances. What evidence do you have of this? Third, it would be unfortunate if she did. I don't condone lying. But then, I'm more concerned about when the president of the United States (Barack Obama) lies than a candidate for office who is unlikely to win anyway.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #124 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Please, expand on that point. I'm all ears.

I have a lot to say, including pointing out the stupidity exhibited by people who appeared to be obsessed by her apparent lack of knowledge about an inconsequential issue like the difference between Wicca and Satanism. Who also appear to know much more than her about these things and yet appear to be critical of her for "dabbling" in them.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #125 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I didn't say that at all. You seem to be twisting what I've said. First I don't give a shit if she wrongly described tis alter or that alter. I really don't care. If anything it demonstrates that to whatever extent she did "dabble" it must have been pretty minimal if the experts in this thread are to be believed and she doesn't know the difference between these things. Second, I don't know if she lied about getting out of her TV appearances. What evidence do you have of this? Third, it would be unfortunate if she did. I don't condone lying. But then, I'm more concerned about when the president of the United States (Barack Obama) lies than a candidate for office who is unlikely to win anyway.

More might come out to prove that she lied about her dropping out of the TV shows, it seems plain obvious that she did, but if you don't wish to speculate then fine.

My take on her is that she's willing to say anything to be likeable to her sect or to be the center of attention. Politician's must thrive on that more than most and I'm quite sure she's going to play to her crowd with great frequency whilst she can. Behind that lying attention grabber there is no doubt someone who wants something very badly. In the unlikely event she wins, she's likely to be aiming for much more as soon as she can, especially the top slot. Palin watch out if she does!

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #126 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I have a lot to say, including pointing out the stupidity exhibited by people who appeared to be obsessed by her apparent lack of knowledge about an inconsequential issue like the difference between Wicca and Satanism. Who also appear to know much more than her about these things and yet appear to be critical of her for "dabbling" in them.

None of us have "dabbled". But we have the advantage over you in that we're not willfully ignorant. So we simply know more stuff when it comes to those things that you "don't care" about.
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post #127 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

None of us have "dabbled". But we have the advantage over you in that we're not willfully ignorant. So we simply know more stuff when it comes to those things that you "don't care" about.

Good for you. Sadly you appear to lack the wisdom to recognize how unimportant it is.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #128 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

More might come out to prove that she lied about her dropping out of the TV shows, it seems plain obvious that she did,

Priceless!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

but if you don't wish to speculate then fine.

No. That would involve conjecturing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #129 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Good for you. Sadly you appear to lack the wisdom to recognize how unimportant it is.

Wisdom comes with knowledge.
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post #130 of 235
9/20/10 at 5:59pm
So what's the real story behind the allegation that O'Donnell used campaign funds to pay rent and go bowling? Do you care about that, MJ?
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post #131 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Priceless!




No. That would involve conjecturing.

If anyone has links, I'd love to see if her supporters are gullible enough to be taking her at her word. Would make for some interesting reading and the satanic alter etc.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #132 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If anyone has links, I'd love to see if her supporters are gullible enough to be taking her at her word. Would make for some interesting reading and the satanic alter etc.

I love the presumption of a lie (and gullibility) without evidence.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #133 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:27pm
I'd love to see MJ's open criticism of the birthers. Or the Lewinsky affair. Or the Swift Boaters. Or Reverend Wright. Or Bill Ayers.

But I won't. Because he "doesn't care" about those things.

He does care about criticism of O'Donnell and Palin, however.
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post #134 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I'd love to see MJ's open criticism of the birthers. Or the Lewinsky affair. Or the Swift Boaters. Or Reverend Wright. Or Bill Ayers.

But I won't. Because he "doesn't care" about those things.

Yeah, I really don't. I don't follow the "birther" thing. Doesn't seem important. If Obama say he was born in the US, I believe him. Doesn't really matter now anyway does it. I thought the Lewinsky thing was a mountain out of a molehill, but I certainly do question Bill Clinton's morality based on it. Didn't really follow the Swift boating thing. What I did see, seemed like so much political BS. Rev. Wright seems off the deep end and I think Obama skillfully distanced himself from stuff that he probably was more aware of than he let on. But then, you know he wasn't lying or anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

He does care about criticism of O'Donnell and Palin, however.

I'm more fascinated than anything else. The left's obsession is amusing, and a tad frightening.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #135 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:37pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Next thing you know, they'll be teaching our kids that all life on earth evolved from a puddle of primordial goo, even though there is no proof.

Grow up. Your stubborn denial of reality and the ideas you have about the origins of life make your god small and insignificant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Sagan

In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, "This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed"? Instead they say, "No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way."

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #136 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm more fascinated than anything else. The left's obsession is amusing, and a tad frightening.

What's frightening is a politician who thinks masturbation is an issue to be discussed. What's frightening are Palin's ideas about abstinence-only education, and the ironic example she herself has set.

And what's frightening is willful ignorance in any context. Who would choose not to be informed?

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post #137 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What's frightening is a politician who thinks masturbation is an issue to be discussed.

This from the person who seems overly concerned with her lack of knowledge abut the difference between Wicca and Satanism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Who would choose not to be informed?

Well, son, there are only so many hours in the day. We all filter. We all pick and chose. You do. I do. Everyone does. There's a finite amount of time and choosing what to educate oneself is a selective process. Wicca and Satanism are pretty darn low on my list. But you go ahead and knock yourself out.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #138 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The left's obsession is amusing, and a tad frightening.

So the left's "obsession" with ridiculous things various righties have done (it's not just women -- Rush and pills, Geedub and drunk driving and cocaine and broccoli, half the Republican party and gay sex in bathrooms ) is "frightening", but all those examples of the Right's equally as obsessive focus are not worthy of comment. I see.
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post #139 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This from the person who seems overly concerned with her lack of knowledge abut the difference between Wicca and Satanism.

I don't think those are issues to be discussed, either. Ignorance, on the other hand...
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post #140 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, son, there are only so many hours in the day.

Yeah, I can tell from your online habits...
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post #141 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Grow up. Your stubborn denial of reality and the ideas you have about the origins of life make your god small and insignificant.

Sorry if I offended you.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #142 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:50pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well, son, there are only so many hours in the day. We all filter. We all pick and chose. You do. I do. Everyone does. There's a finite amount of time and choosing what to educate oneself is a selective process. Wicca and Satanism are pretty darn low on my list. But you go ahead and knock yourself out.

SHE WAS INTO IT! The least she could have known was what it was about. First, there's nothing wrong with education and not being ethnocentrist, but for someone who WAS INVOLVED IN IT, she should know the fucking difference.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #143 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:51pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Sorry if I offended you.

You don't offend me. It makes me sad that you think the universe is so...trivial. You sell your own god short.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Sagan

The fossil record implies trial and error, an inability to anticipate the future, features inconsistent with an efficient Great Designer.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #144 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, I can tell from your online habits...

But I get to spend all this time educating you.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #145 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

SHE WAS INTO IT! The least she could have known was what it was about. First, there's nothing wrong with education and not being ethnocentrist, but for someone who WAS INVOLVED IN IT, she should know the fucking difference.

Evidently not as much as y'all assume.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #146 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

But I get to spend ll this time educating you.

I do learn a lot from my interaction with you, that's true. But probably not in the way you intend.
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post #147 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You don't offend me. It makes me sad that you think the universe is so...trivial. You sell your own god short.

I don't believe science and religion are mutually exclusive.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #148 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Evidently not as much as y'all assume.

We did not make an assumption on this particular point. She said it herself.
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post #149 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't believe science and religion are mutually exclusive.

You do seem to think that creationism and evolution are.
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post #150 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

We did not make an assumption on this particular point. She said it herself.

You missed the point. She said she "dabbled." (to work or involve oneself superficially or intermittently especially in a secondary activity or interest) You all have assumed she must then have a pretty good knowledge about both of them. Evidently she wasn't as involved or didn't "dabble" as much as assumed.

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post #151 of 235
9/20/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You do seem to think that creationism and evolution are.

I said there is no proof all life on this planet evolved from primordial goo. Am I wrong?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #152 of 235
9/20/10 at 7:00pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
All life? No. All is a big word and life is a funny thing in that stuff can live in some of the harshest conditions imaginable. However, there is substantial evidence that the overwhelming majority of life on this planet share a common ancestor. Molecular biology is a wonderful thing.

Well, you also didn't specify the same goo...so...I'll answer your question with a "Yes, but the possibility of life crashing down onto Earth on a meteor also exists. We don't know if aliens plopped down some life here either. But again, all signs point to yes. The mountain ranges of evidence point to yes."

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #153 of 235
9/20/10 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I said there is no proof all life on this planet evolved from primordial goo. Am I wrong?

Let me educate you once again. The scientific basis of Evolution, and the reason it is included in our scientific curriculum, is not based in any way on a claim that all life evolved from a single event, or even that all life is a product of evolution. It is the scientific fact that some life has followed the path of evolution. You, MJ and Frank have shown that you disagree with that position, which makes you ignorant of the mountain of scientific evidence and consensus that says otherwise.
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post #154 of 235
9/20/10 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Let me educate you once again. The scientific basis of Evolution, and the reason it is included in our scientific curriculum, is not based in any way on a claim that all life evolved from a single event, or even that all life is a product of evolution. It is the scientific fact that some life has followed the path of evolution. You, MJ and Frank have shown that you disagree with that position, which makes you ignorant of the mountain of scientific evidence and consensus that says otherwise.

Please quote me where I claimed that evolution does not happen on any scale.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #155 of 235
9/20/10 at 7:14pm
The plants and animals and other life on Earth that we are aware of, and the life on Earth we may be unaware of, can have been a product of many things. It can have evolved. It can have been created by a Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. It can have been created by the basketmakers. It can have been sent here by aliens.

But only one of those things is a scientifically proven explanation. That doesn't exclude the others from being possible!
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post #156 of 235
9/20/10 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Next thing you know, they'll be teaching our kids that all life on earth evolved from a puddle of primordial goo, even though there is no proof.

Are they teaching that? That all life on Earth evolved? If that's what they're teaching, then I would suggest that such a qualifier be removed.
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post #157 of 235
9/20/10 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I have a lot to say, including pointing out the stupidity exhibited by people who appeared to be obsessed by her apparent lack of knowledge about an inconsequential issue like the difference between Wicca and Satanism. Who also appear to know much more than her about these things and yet appear to be critical of her for "dabbling" in them.

No-one is critical of her for 'dabbling' - and it is not an inconsequential issue...it is of the utmost importance. Here is why:

Currently in the US there are many ill-informed people who believe ridiculous things. It's not necessarily their fault...it's the fault of others in positions of power who reinforce these beliefs.

Here are some examples:

Islam = terrorism
Evolution = 'just a theory'
ID = science
Wicca = Satanism

The list goes on.

Now I would take the view that:

a) Leaders and Politicians should not be drawn from a group that is so ill-informed .

b) Leaders and Politicians - being informed - have a duty to inform and educate everyone who for whatever reason, labours under these illusions.

It's not about OPINIONS - people can have whatever opinion they like. It's about rationality and information.

Of course that's part of the problem: opinions being confused with facts.

So, whether a politician is rational and well-informed IS CRITICAL as this is the basis on which they will make DECISIONS that affect the entire world.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #158 of 235
9/20/10 at 11:20pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Hammer. Nail. Dead on.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #159 of 235
9/21/10 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This from the person who seems overly concerned with her lack of knowledge abut the difference between Wicca and Satanism.




Well, son, there are only so many hours in the day. We all filter. We all pick and chose. You do. I do. Everyone does. There's a finite amount of time and choosing what to educate oneself is a selective process. Wicca and Satanism are pretty darn low on my list. But you go ahead and knock yourself out.

If you infer that a person admits to dabble into a subject but even after dabbling has only superficial knowledge of this subject, what will you expect if that same person dabbles into let's say, Healthcare or off shore drilling?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #160 of 235
9/21/10 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

The plants and animals and other life on Earth that we are aware of, and the life on Earth we may be unaware of, can have been a product of many things. It can have evolved. It can have been created by a Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. It can have been created by the basketmakers. It can have been sent here by aliens.

But only one of those things is a scientifically proven explanation. That doesn't exclude the others from being possible!

Since we know Dinosaurs laid eggs which needed to be fertilized by male seed, we must draw the conclusion that when god created humans he didn't have any new ideas.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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