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iPad 'slightly cannibalizing' Apple's own low-end MacBooks - report - Page 2

post #41 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, most of those things started in some form on OS X. That they made their way to iOS, were enhanced, and made their way back, points more to OS X and iOS cross pollinating each other than that technologies are developed first for iOS then trickle back. If anything, the bulk of the pollen has come from OS X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I seem to recall Apple had stating that QuickTime X’s engine was first redesigned for iPhone OS and then later brought to Snow Leopard, with a new UI of course.

Yeah, the gene pool begins to get a little murky.

AIR, OS X Snow Leopard was delayed 6 months while the Apple OS team finalized the iPhone version of OS X.

Then there are the enhancements to XCode and InterfaceBuilder -- most of the enhancements are iOS related...

We are atarting to see some of the visual components (layouts, buttons, controls, etc.) migrate from iOS to the desktop/webtop -- mail is a good example.

I use the Final Cut Studio Suite, and there some areas of these "power" applications that scream out for the elegant simplicity of multitouch -- pinch/zoom/pan/flick a clip on the timeline; manipulate a camera path through the composited layers of 3D space; controlling particle emitters (rain, snow, fog, bubbles) with multiple touches at the same time.

The touch device is still an infant in diapers.... He will build upon all that came before.


... Now I have some disgruntled birds that need tending...

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post #42 of 101
I'm definitely one that will be buying an iPad over a Macbook. That said, I still need a desktop as my digital hub.
post #43 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

People want simplicity and less clutter not a more complex mess of bits and pieces scattered around the house.

I think that desktop computers are commodity items. At least WRT hard drives, RAM and CPUs.

I think that these aspects will develop much more slowly than in the past. Already we are seeing the market shy away from the fastest processors, instead buying machines like the iPad and the netbook, because it is "good enough". Already we have seen computers updated to Win 7, but still with the same industry-standard 4 gigs of RAM. Already we see home computers with plug and play hot-swappable RAID which can have new drives added almost effortlessly, especially by an appliance repair man.

This stuff is "good enough" to last a user for years now - soon it will be good enough for longer, semi-permanent installation, upgraded or replaced only very occasionally.

So I see "our home computer" as a box in the cellar. Drop dead simple.

Your toddler can use a kiddie tablet to get whatever he likes. You can buy a nice monitor, keyboard and mouse to connect. Or you can use a tablet. An expensive nice one, like some folk's deluxe shower stalls and jacuzzis, or a basic one like most people use.

Your TV will connect. Why not?

It will be a standard feature of new construction, and a popular retrofit for existing homes. The desktop computer, as a box which takes up space and looks ugly, is no longer necessary. With wireless n and cheap (or deluxe) clients, able to connect to home or to anything else, I don't see that the "taking up desk space" box has much of a future.
post #44 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

It's also possible that people aren't buying the low-end MacBook because of underwhelming specifications, glossy screen, the white color, etc. etc.

Well, it's entirely possible that the low-end MacBook Pro is "cannibalizing" the MacBook. For the extra couple hundred bucks, it's definitely a more attractive option. That's the problem with this sort of report, where the word "slightly" is used, without access to actual numbers, or information on why people made what choices they did.
post #45 of 101
Not just talking about you specifically. But it is really interesting how these discussions turn into all or nothing with little in the middle. While the reality of things is mostly always in the middle and rarely all or nothing.

No I wasn't saying that iOS was ascending over OS X. Both OS's are very different and there is a good reason for that.

M point is that technology that has been written specifically for iOS is being adopted into OS X. That is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, but there are new technologies being developed for OS X today (GCD, for example) that will eventually make their way to iOS. What's going on here is cross pollination, not the ascendancy of iOS over OS X.
post #46 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What you have to understand is that things that are going from iOS back to OS X are completely rewritten code. The concepts come from OS X because OS X was first. But the code being written for iOS is largely new.

Quiktime X is a completely new Quicktime that was originally for the iPhone and ported to Mac OS X.

Very good point... I can't find a citation, but I've heard that the iPhone gave OS X developers the chance to re-implement some components the "right way". And that these have been repatriated into the motherland.

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post #47 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, but there are new technologies being developed for OS X today (GCD, for example) that will eventually make their way to iOS. What's going on here is cross pollination, not the ascendancy of iOS over OS X.

I agree with that!

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post #48 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Not just talking about you specifically. But it is really interesting how these discussions turn into all or nothing with little in the middle. While the reality of things is mostly always in the middle and rarely all or nothing.

No I wasn't saying that iOS was ascending over OS X. Both OS's are very different and there is a good reason for that.

M point is that technology that has been written specifically for iOS is being adopted into OS X. That is all.

Well, no, I don't think it's all or nothing, one or the other. In fact, I was responding counter to the general idea in this thread that it is all or nothing, one or the other, iOS or OS X, not the middle ground where both flourish and influence each other.
post #49 of 101
A New Patent Admission Points to an iMac Touch & New iApps



http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...new-iapps.html
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post #50 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

... I predict the death of the "computer" as a machine sitting on a desk, and the rise of the "home computer" as a box in the cellar like your water heater.

Word.

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post #51 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, no, I don't think it's all or nothing, one or the other. In fact, I was responding counter to the general idea in this thread that it is all or nothing, one or the other, iOS or OS X, not the middle ground where both flourish and influence each other.

Maybe, in the future, we can all agree iOS XI

Ugh...

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post #52 of 101
For years there's just been one MacBook and three MacBook Pros. It really does seem like Apple is waiting to see if and when iPad can replace the low-end MacBook entirely. And I wonder if there's room for a 13" iPad Pro...

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post #53 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

I believe that Apple is making OSX 100% finger friendly and that it will soon discontinue the wifi only ipad. Next I believe that Apple will release ipads that are as technically strong as the macbook. It is inevitable IMHO. Apple will turn the macbook into a slate. I can feel it. Then the pro models will get skated. IMHO!!! But what the hell do I know?

sorry, but you don't understand apples strategy. the ipad has to be as light and thin as possible. it is not going to replace the mac book! why should it???

the ipad is also no replacement for a mac book. you can do so much on a mac book what you can not do on an ipad.

what apple MIGHT soon do is to make the ipad independent. so many people bought an ipad and THEN realized, that they still need a host computer to operate it.

the ipad itself can not do anything apart from consuming and viewing. you can not even delete a photo or edit it on the ipad. it is also impossible to edit your itune library. the ipad is an oversized ipod touch or iphone. that's it!
post #54 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post


the ipad itself can not do anything apart from consuming and viewing. you can not even delete a photo or edit it on the ipad. it is also impossible to edit your itune library. the ipad is an oversized ipod touch or iphone. that's it!

I am SOOOOOO sick of this 'iPad is for consuming, not producing' nonsense.
Tell that to the people already using it in business, music, writing, medicine ad nauseum.

And this is just the FIRST VERSION!
I swear, the lack of vision vision of the so-called 'tech literate' is sometimes astounding.

In 10 years, what we've been calling a 'computer' for the past 30 will be a quaint joke.
Its the iPad that is beginning that path.
post #55 of 101
ok, the facts:

mac book sales go back, ipod sales go up. logical consequence: ipad is replacing mac book?

WRONG!

rememer that the mac book prise has been increased! i know many customers who are very pissed off about that move. in europe the mac book was 899 euro, now it is 999 euro. apple is ripping its customers off, so they should not be surprised if they sell less.

however, the ipad sales are going up because it is a fresh product. it's not goint to be like that all the time.
post #56 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I am SOOOOOO sick of this 'iPad is for consuming, not producing' nonsense.
Tell that to the people already using it in business, music, writing, medicine ad nauseum.

And this is just the FIRST VERSION!
I swear, the lack of vision vision of the so-called 'tech literate' is sometimes astounding.

In 10 years, what we've been calling a 'computer' for the past 30 will be a quaint joke.
Its the iPad that is beginning that path.

but it is true!

you have this great app for watching your photos. but have you tried to delete one of those photos? not possible. or maybe move one photo infront of the other one? impossible. maybe renaming a stack of photos? impossible! or edit a photo because the colors are looking ugly? impossible!

same thing with music.

can you delete a song? nope! can you rename a song? nope! can you change a cover of a song? nope. can you do anything apart from listening to the songs? nope!

oh, yes, you can create a playlist. whow! incredible! a playlist! but that's about it. nothing more.

you can consume music, you can consume photos and consume videos. but you can not do anything more! sorry, but this is the concept of the ipad!
post #57 of 101
I know this about QuickTime because I know someone who works on the QuickTime team.

He was telling me that the basis of QuickTime was literally the same code from 1991. For the past 18 years they were just building on top of it. The iPhone provided the opportunity to get rid of all of the legacy crap that was no longer needed and start over again fresh. That is the reason why there is a QuickTime X and a QuickTime 7. QuickTime 7 is the old QT with legacy code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Very good point... I can't find a citation, but I've heard that the iPhone gave OS X developers the chance to re-implement some components the "right way". And that these have been repatriated into the motherland.
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I am SOOOOOO sick of this 'iPad is for consuming, not producing' nonsense.
Tell that to the people already using it in business, music, writing, medicine ad nauseum.

And this is just the FIRST VERSION!
I swear, the lack of vision vision of the so-called 'tech literate' is sometimes astounding.

In 10 years, what we've been calling a 'computer' for the past 30 will be a quaint joke.
Its the iPad that is beginning that path.

I totally agree with your criticisms of the, "'iPad is for consuming, not producing' nonsense," and your comments on the lack of vision. I also agree that the iPad is the beginning of a major change in the way we interact with computers, but, I still believe that desktops (where input and display is separate) will remain an important part of that.
post #59 of 101
That has nothing to do with productive apps for the iPad. What you are talking about is the fact that Apple designed its media management around iTunes.

That has nothing to do with what developers are able to create for the iPad and how people can use the iPad. There are thousands of productive apps for the iOS.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post

but it is true!

you have this great app for watching your photos. but have you tried to delete one of those photos? not possible. or maybe move one photo infront of the other one? impossible. maybe renaming a stack of photos? impossible! or edit a photo because the colors are looking ugly? impossible!

same thing with music.

can you delete a song? nope! can you rename a song? nope! can you change a cover of a song? nope. can you do anything apart from listening to the songs? nope!

oh, yes, you can create a playlist. whow! incredible! a playlist! but that's about it. nothing more.

you can consume music, you can consume photos and consume videos. but you can not do anything more! sorry, but this is the concept of the ipad!
post #60 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post

... you can consume music, you can consume photos and consume videos. but you can not do anything more! sorry, but this is the concept of the ipad!

Wow, you have no idea of what you are talking about. And, you can delete photos, just not photos that were sync'd to your iPad.
post #61 of 101
The iPad and iOS give Apple the chance to re-invent the computer in a way not hampered by the old PC vrs Mac debate. It's a new gold rush.
post #62 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I totally agree with your criticisms of the, "'iPad is for consuming, not producing' nonsense," and your comments on the lack of vision. I also agree that the iPad is the beginning of a major change in the way we interact with computers, but, I still believe that desktops (where input and display is separate) will remain an important part of that.

I don't agree that separate input and display implies a desktop.

Already, the vast majority of Macs have the computer built into the monitor, which is a step away from a box sitting there, taking up space on a desk. However, the Mac includes a (pretty much) single-purpose screen, which makes little sense to me, given how expensive nice screens are.

I think that redundant, multi-purpose displays can be coupled with casual input devices (like a nice keyboard and deluxe multi-touch mouse, or an el-cheapo walmart keyboard with a built-in touchpad) in order to easily satisfy the home user. All that needs to be built into a screen is a thin client and a means to get keyboard/mouse or finger input, and it will be good to go.
post #63 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Wow, you have no idea of what you are talking about. And, you can delete photos, just not photos that were sync'd to your iPad.

That's the sort of thing that drives me nuts with these iOS products.

Just yesterday, I was looking at all the new stuff I had synced to my iPhone, including dozens of albums of music.

Of course, many of them were screwed up and loopy, after iTunes had its way with them. One big compilation, like "The 100 Greatest x of all Time" ruins both album and artist view, unless you relent and rename everything just the way iTunes wants it. And what really sucks is when you put a classic, but out-of-print album into iTunes and then trust it to get the album artwork. You end up with several crappy variations of "greatest hits" covers for however the label carved things up, while never getting artwork for stuff not sold in iTunes.

So I was sitting and waiting for a friend, listening to great music, but unable to manicure the broken iTunes crap out of my device as I browsed my additions. Hell, I couldn't even correct the names or put the albums back together or anything. I had to remember the most egregious stuff, so that I cold maybe fix it later, if I was ever so inspired.

Phone contacts don't work like that. Why does Apple artificially restrict you from making changes to other libraries?
post #64 of 101
Wasn't it last year that one of them analyst asked what Apple planned on doing about the rise of the netbook? Apple has now answered the netbook and here we go about the ipad killing sales of the lower end macbooks. Damn! What the hell do they want!???
I still think Apple is planning higher end ipads.
Oh, and isn't great that we don't have any viruses on our ipads?
HA HA HA! Suck on that MS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #65 of 101
I don't think it will be long until Mac's come with touch screens and will be able to run your iOS environment on the Mac and toggle between the two OS's. Your iOS device will AirSync with MobileMe and with your desktop and/or laptop Mac and you will be able to move from computer to computer and use all of your iOS apps and data. Even before Mac's come with touch screens I think you will be able to run iOS on your Mac and they will come up with some way to use the touch pad to control iOS. The iOS simulator in the development software already runs on a Mac. They will need this feature for AppleTV. AppleTV will need to run iOS Apps to compete with the Android TV devices that will be coming out, and you will need to control the HDTV image from a iOS device. So some type of touch mouse will be needed for that.

I think we will also see an iOS laptop that does not even have OS X on it. I would not be surprised if the next upgrade to the MacBook Air is an iOS device rather than an OS X device. They may rename it but it will be the replacement for the MacBook Air, maybe the iBook Air, a very thin, lite laptop running iOS.
post #66 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

I believe that Apple is making OSX 100% finger friendly and that it will soon discontinue the wifi only ipad. Next I believe that Apple will release ipads that are as technically strong as the macbook. It is inevitable IMHO. Apple will turn the macbook into a slate. I can feel it. Then the pro models will get skated. IMHO!!! But what the hell do I know?

Not a chance in hell. Roughly 50% of the iPad sales are Wi-fi only models.
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

I predict the death of the desktop.

I predict the rise of the home server, with easy to use input and output devices scattered throughout the house.

I think that the iPad as a tethered adjunct to another specific computer is a limited vision. I think that such devices will be of varying strengths and configurations, able to connect easily to whatever server is desired.

At home, I think people will pick up a tablet to retreive photos and periodicals from their home cloud or a bigger cloud, and that they will use accessory keyboards and mice and screens in various locations, depending upon convenience and purpose.

If they want a recipe, they can use the little POS waterproof screen in the kitchen. If they want to input a major recipe, they will sit at the desk that has a keyboard, mouse and screen. If they want to watch home movies, they will either lay in bed with their handleld tablet screen, or if they have the hardware, watch it projected onto the wall, or on a TV with client software, or wherever they feel like it.

I predict the death of the "computer" as a machine sitting on a desk, and the rise of the "home computer" as a box in the cellar like your water heater.

Not for at least another 10 years.
post #68 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garysturn View Post

I don't think it will be long until Mac's come with touch screens

A 30 inch touchscreen would be horrible. Instead of a flick of a finger on a touchpad, you would need to practically rise out of your chair to move the cursor.
post #69 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Not for at least another 10 years.

Could be. It will be fun to see if that sort of thing ever comes to pass.
post #70 of 101
Cannibalize This
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post #71 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post

but it is true!

you have this great app for watching your photos. but have you tried to delete one of those photos? not possible. or maybe move one photo infront of the other one? impossible. maybe renaming a stack of photos? impossible! or edit a photo because the colors are looking ugly? impossible!

same thing with music.

can you delete a song? nope! can you rename a song? nope! can you change a cover of a song? nope. can you do anything apart from listening to the songs? nope!

oh, yes, you can create a playlist. whow! incredible! a playlist! but that's about it. nothing more.

you can consume music, you can consume photos and consume videos. but you can not do anything more! sorry, but this is the concept of the ipad!

6 Awesome Photo Editing Apps for the iPad.

You'll have to do better than that.
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post #72 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post

the ipad itself can not do anything apart from consuming and viewing.

Literally speaking, you are wrong...there are lots of productivity and creativity apps. However, there is no "Creativity" category on the Apple Store...apps like Sketchbook are in the "Entertainment" category if memory serves.

I do see some limitations in the iPad which may be a roadblock to non-consumption use adoption. The lack of a keyboard may prevent one from writing seriously, but those people are adding keyboards. While some folks can create great works of art with any tool they are given, the reality is that the touch screen isn't pressure sensitive and it is a limitation.

I'm not sure if Apple will ever address these concerns because Apple knows that creatives will pay extra for the devices and software they need (think Cintiq).
post #73 of 101
You want the full OS X on a touchscreen?
Buy a Modbook.
Available now.

As for this iOS Macbook, please enlighten us as to what this will accomplish better than either the Macbook Air or an iPad with keyboard.
post #74 of 101
Where did this argument about devices being either for creation or consumption arise from? I find it all rather arbitrary. I can create a text message with a mobile phone so it must be a creative device. A paint brush by itself can only look pretty, so therefore it's only for admiring and viewing.

The truth of the matter is each tool is what you make of it as a user, be it mobile, paint brush or iPad.

The beauty of the iPad is that it can be paint brush, paint, canvas and gallery all in one.

So is the iPad the digital Swiss army knife of art and media?
post #75 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

How many netbooks are there available with 10 hours of battery life? How many weigh significantly less than two pounds? How many provide an interface that is perfect for browsing? How many allow for a gaming interface that is half as much fun as what the iPad offers? Inexpensive quality games abound and are incredibly easy to acquire and install. As an e-reader, the iPad makes sense. Netbooks? Not so much.

Quite a few netbooks will do 9+ hours of battery life. What's an interface that is perfect for browsing? Do you even know? Does anyone? And a netbook would have access to 20 years' worth of PC games (discounting modern 3D games that obviously won't run on such a slow machine).

I'm just sayin'. You're not arguing this well.
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Not a chance in hell. Roughly 50% of the iPad sales are Wi-fi only models.

Only 50%? I bet it's more like 80%
post #77 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Quite a few netbooks will do 9+ hours of battery life. What's an interface that is perfect for browsing? Do you even know? Does anyone? And a netbook would have access to 20 years' worth of PC games (discounting modern 3D games that obviously won't run on such a slow machine).

I'm just sayin'. You're not arguing this well.

Most seem to be much lower than 10 hours unless we're talking about leaving it to idle. Even the one Asus I know of with a stated 14 hour battery life falls well below the iPad when it comes to common uses like watching video. Consider that watch Hulu or Netflix video would mean Flash over a native app and you have even lower battery time compared to the iPad.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2965/a...rite-netbook/5 I can't define what is the best UI for browsing, but I can say that using Windows, Linux and Mac OS X on netbooks isn't it. They are desktop-class OSes used on displays they were designed for and HW performance that is well beyond what those OSes and apps typically expect.
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post #78 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenclaw View Post

While some folks can create great works of art with any tool they are given, the reality is that the touch screen isn't pressure sensitive and it is a limitation.

I'm not sure if Apple will ever address these concerns because Apple knows that creatives will pay extra for the devices and software they need (think Cintiq).

It's the stylus that's pressure sensitive, not the screen...

Then, there's this:

http://www.gadgetvenue.com/apple-ipa...-app-07034713/


Sent from my non-productive, consumption-only iPad -- while sittin' on the couch watchin' Monday Night Football.

.
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post #79 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Don't worry about my health. Instead, worry about all the wasted effort Apple put into devising the useless keyboard shortcuts utilized by us sick, lazy jerky users.

You are obviously NOT a power user. Just keep using that mouse to click icons. It is faster than learning keyboard shortcuts - for certain types of people.

I have used Apple computers professionally since 1987 and am most definitely a power user. Care to teach me the keyboard shortcut for drawing a path in PhotoShop? Don't make such ridiculous statements, or be so lazy as to complain that moving a mouse is labour intensive.
post #80 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

You want the full OS X on a touchscreen?
Buy a Modbook.
Available now.

As for this iOS Macbook, please enlighten us as to what this will accomplish better than either the Macbook Air or an iPad with keyboard.

An input area/control surface which is application specific. For just one suggestion.
Damn good job yr not in product development with such a terrible lack of imagination.

I'm typing - I want a keyboard.
I'm editing video, I want a series of touch controls.
Operating lighting over dmx
Live mixing sound with virtual faders

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