"The Making of a Bearded Marxist." Quote NOT by Obama - Page 2

Originally Posted by MJ1970

I notice you've very carefully (and narrowly) worded your definition of what is (or isn't) "Marxist" but, to the astute reader, this does not successfully disguise things as you might like. You are referring here to a specific tactic or approach (e.g., process of revolution). while also (deliberately or ignorantly) missing the fact that things like calls for higher taxes are, in point of fact, merely a different method or form of "expropriate the capitalist classes" and a different process to "take the means of production into the hands of the proletariat."




More clearly and succinctly: He wants higher taxes for companies...or...he wants to expropriate more of the property of capitalists than is currently being expropriated.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

Can you explain why countries who have implemented some of Marx/Engels theories are kicking the US ass not only economically but with their heath care, their education, their overall individual wealth and the happiness of the citizenry. They hold more patents and have little companies like VW, BMW and Mercedes, Siemens, LG and Sony, Hanjin and KIA and BP and Apple(Chia) and HP(China) and the US has a trade deficit of ~50 Billion per quarter, can you please shed some light on this?

Originally Posted by MJ1970

I notice you've very carefully (and narrowly) worded your definition of what is (or isn't) "Marxist" but, to the astute reader, this does not successfully disguise things as you might like. You are referring here to a specific tactic or approach (e.g., process of revolution). while also (deliberately or ignorantly) missing the fact that things like calls for higher taxes are, in point of fact, merely a different method or form of "expropriate the capitalist classes" and a different process to "take the means of production into the hands of the proletariat."

More clearly and succinctly: He wants higher taxes for companies...or...he wants to expropriate more of the property of capitalists than is currently being expropriated.

Originally Posted by Camp David

Actually, AS THE FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD ADVANCED, it is Chris Cooks saying that, i.e., "The Making of a Bearded Marxist," by Chris Coons!

Originally Posted by Camp David

Like B Obama, C Coons seemed to once favor Marxism, now in order to campaign for Senate his handlers are denying his Marxism advocacy. His actions on imposition of taxes on citizens - repeated crushing escalation - makes Coons' actions suspect on his advocacy for Capitalism. At very least Coons is hostile to the democratic system in place and small business/industrial capitalism in place in Delaware. From this, trust in Coons by citizens of the state should not be a given, until he himself explains his Marxist ideas.

Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo

Forgive me, but this is total, utter, fucking bullshit you have written.

...

That is total, utter fucking bullshit.

Originally Posted by MJ1970

Yes, because you say it is.

Originally Posted by FineTunes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...list_countries

Here's a list, you choose.

Originally Posted by Camp David

Hussein Obama was the same during his campaign; play the fictional capitalist during the vote yet as soon as elected look to advance the unions, punish the bourgeoisie class, and advance the proletariat in a wealth transfer. Utter crap for policy - anathema in itself and opposed to capitalism.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

Can you explain why countries who have implemented some of Marx/Engels theories are kicking the US ass not only economically but with their heath care, their education, their overall individual wealth and the happiness of the citizenry. They hold more patents and have little companies like VW, BMW and Mercedes, Siemens, LG and Sony, Hanjin and KIA and BP and Apple(Chia) and HP(China) and the US has a trade deficit of ~50 Billion per quarter, can you please shed some light on this?

social democracy,*political ideology that advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism using established political processes. Based on 19th-century socialism and the tenets of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, social democracy shares common ideological roots with communism but eschews its militancy and totalitarianism. Social democracy was originally known as revisionism because it represented a change in basic Marxist doctrine, primarily in the formers repudiation of the use of revolution to establish a socialist society.

On previous occasions of decline, social democracy has bounced back in Europe, but this time the record includes ideological and cultural meltdown. What would it take to survive the current crisis?

This electoral trend was emphatically confirmed in the 2009 European elections. Social democratic parties were the main losers on this occasion despite harbouring high hopes of doing well after the debâcle of financial capitalism and market politics. These poor results are all the more surprising given that, almost everywhere in Europe, conservative forces are in decline. The main lesson of this election was that social democratic parties were severely rejected where they are traditionally strong (France, Germany, UK, Italy and Spain). One can note also that the slump in votes of social democratic forces benefited the radical left in several countries (France, Germany, Portugal and to some extent Greece).

Originally Posted by FineTunes

First in your post you failed to make this distinction between Marx-Communist and Marx/Engels-Social Democracyso you fail there. Haven't those Communistic countries listed in wiki implemented some of Marx/Engels theories (CHINA amongst them?)? If so, then your premise as you see it is flawed or fails to take into account that you can use the Marx-Communist states as examples as well.

We can disagree, can make errors, or we can mistakesbut to belittle someone who tries to answer your post is just a D+ Drake University Education





LG, Hanjin and KIA are South Korean companies--- I would include Samsung, Helio, Hyundai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...of_South_Korea
S Korea is not a social democracytheir government is much like ours. They have their ups and downs depending on who is in power. However it appears that their health care system is a lot better than ours---but S. Korea is not a Marx/EngelsSocial Democracy and the type of health care that in a country does not necessarily make it a social democracy.
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2010/...-in-korea.html
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447690/

Apple Chi[n]a is a US company who manufactures products in China at Fox Com amongst others. Also contracts with South Korea and Singapore.
HP is a multinational US based company. HP China http://www.hpl.hp.com/china/
---Lenovo who bought IBM's PC's is a Chinese electronic company. But isn't the PRC Marxist/EngelsCommunist and not Marx/EngelsSocial Democracy. Somehow the PRC doesn't fit the definition below:

Social Democracy:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...cial-democracy

Again another D+ Drake U. example from you.



Sony is Japanese company whose government not a social democracy:
Japan no longer officially has the traditional federal system, and its 47 prefectures depend on the central government for most funding. Governors of prefectures, mayors of municipalities, and prefectural and municipal assembly members are popularly elected for four year terms.http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Japanese_government

BP is British and BP is responsible for the Gulf of Mexico oil spill

Social Democracy appears to be on a decline in Europe-----but this is another story and off topic:

The decline of Europe's social democratic parties
Philippe Marlière, 16 March 2010

*---you can read more @http://www.opendemocracy.net/philippe-marliere/decline-of-europes-social-democratic-parties

Originally Posted by Wormhole

My post says "some of Marx/Engels theories." Even the right in most European SDs are social democratic parties. However the rate of atheists is increasing much faster than in the US and the Christian Right in Europe will not be able to hold on to power long. I read European news every day. Several countries also have elections this year and we will see who wins. i.e. Austria had a right wing fascist problem 6 years ago and this party has all but disappeared now. Their leader was gay (imagine a gay NAZI, wow) and died mysteriously in a car accident.

Originally Posted by segovius

You've got to be joking....

Jorg Haider might have been gay but he was a total right-wing wanker of the first order.

Nazism is rampant here in Europe and without doubt will increase with the legitimization of it in the US.

I think the Netherlands are currently leading the way in the Fascist stakes and will probably be the first to elect a fascist PM - no doubt extreme Nazi Wilders.

Austria are still out there and Denmark has a serious problem.

Switzerland has normalized the extreme now with the ban on mosques/minarets (despite there not being any) and some classic Nazi-style racist political posters which go unchallenged.

France has banned Burkas and are currently illegally raiding and deporting ethnic minorities in a manner which has been compared to Nazi expulsions in WW2.

Belgium - racism over-boiling and similar bans.

The whole of Scandanavia seems in the grip of an extreme-right upsurge.

Probably the only places where things are normal are Spain, Germany and the UK - though this latter does have the BNP and the laughable EDL but people mostly realize these are just wankers.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

I wonder if Hitler 2 will be Austrian as well.

Originally Posted by segovius

I'll go with Dutch or American.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

Dutch is a good possibility. They do have massive international corps they have % of almost all wind energy in the world (they put up all the mills in Denmark) .

Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo

Off topic, but it's the other way 'round, actually! I'd be very surprised if there were a single wind turbine in the whole of Denmark that wasn't put up by a Danish company.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

A very good Dutch friend of mine has put up 60 huge turbines in the ocean off the coast of Denmark. Sorry, I do know this first hand. He also owns turbines near Las Vegas and all over Holland. He's been doing this since the 70's.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

A very good Dutch friend of mine has put up 60 huge turbines in the ocean off the coast of Denmark. Sorry, I do know this first hand. He also owns turbines near Las Vegas and all over Holland. He's been doing this since the 70's.

Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo

Oh, OK.

I've just moved back to London after nearly fourteen months in Denmark and I guess I've been propagandised. It's definitely true that Denmark makes half the world's wind turbines and you very rarely see a wind turbine anywhere in Denmark that isn't made by Vestas, though, so I'm pretty confident that the Dutch didn't put up "all the mills" there.

Not that it's massively relevant anyways.