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Apple sues 'HyperMac' accessory maker over MagSafe, iPod cables - Page 2

post #41 of 173
I bought an auto adapter for my MBP. It has the usual light plug on one end and the magsafe power connector on the other. Purchased from Other World Computing. I seldom use it, but on a long road trip it has come in handy. I don't think it is sold any longer by OWC.

It looks like this:

http://www.laptopbatteryhouse.com/la...l-p-33000.html

OWC does sell this:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Micro...ies/APL125001/

but it is more than twice as expensive, although it has additional features. They must have a license for it.

This could be used with a 12 volt battery to run a MacBook Pro out in the woods. An iPhone can be charged from the MBP.
post #42 of 173
so, the time to think about getting a backup is when you run out of power?

it's one of the first things i give consideration to when i purchase a mobile product. the problem with folks these days is they simply don't think ahead.
post #43 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

On the other hand, it is annoying that Apple doesn't license the MagSafe adaptor. How much money do they make selling their own power bricks that it makes sense to lock them down?

The entire reason for "doing a patent" in the first place is to stop your competitors from stealing your inventions to enhance their products ... why do you think Apple is still the only notebook manufacturer, at least that I know of, that offers that on their computers?
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post #44 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Apparently we have discovered still something else you seem to know nothing about. FYI patents have to be vigorously defended or you will lose them ... by law.. This is not rocket science .... well, except maybe in your case.

It's not rocket science, but it's patent law. You don't lose your patent rights by not enforcing them. They might lose the ability to sue or recover as much HyperMac for these particular products in the future if they don't sue or inform them of the alleged infringement, but they would be able to enforce it against anyone else, but that's the case any time you fail to sue someone that has infringed your rights. However, Apple could maintain their right to sue simply by sending letters informing them of the infringement and telling them to cease.

You're likely confusing this concept with trademark law, in which can a loss in rights can occur if not enforced properly.
post #45 of 173
Apple will prob reach a agreement and settle like they always do

Hypermac stuff isn't cheap they even have models for their products!!

http://www.hypershop.com/HyperMac-Ex...-iPod-s/91.htm

And mostlikly rake in all profit and pretty good margins if they are able to sell anything

http://cgi.ebay.com/HyperMac-Extende...item45f51340da
http://www.hypershop.com/HyperMac-Ex...-p/mbp-060.htm
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post #46 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

And BTW, I was looking in a suburb of one of the top-10 biggest cities in the US. The suburb alone has a population of over 100k. I went to both a Radio Shack and a well-stocked specialty electronics store, as well as lesser, but more local possibilities, like Walgreens.

I call BS. AA to USB power supplies are plentiful, as are iPod cables. There you go.

Or move down the wall a little (if you really are in a Radio Shack) and pick from probably four or five iPod/iPhone car adapters. Or USB wall chargers made specifically for the iPod.

If you had complained about finding a mag safe external battery to charge you MacBook with the non-removeable battery that would be one thing - but to complain about the iPod dock connector, when iPod dock cables are as prevalent as USB cables, is just plain trolling.

Heck, I was in a Ross clothing store a few months back and walked out with a $5 belkin car charger that worked perfectly when I left my cradle for my iPhone at home by accident. Heck you can get them in dollar stores for crying out loud
post #47 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

Back to topic.

I was furious when I read Apple's legal action against HyperMac.

I have a long-life HyperMac battery. Said to last around 10-12 hours. If Apple does not allow other manufacturers to make these products for the Mac -- and Apple does not -- then it is just plain spitefulness.

There's going to come a day, possibly in the next iteration of Windows, then Windows -- which might not be AS good as OSX -- but it's good enough. I might hop off the train.

4miller,

As noted on the first page of the legal action, HyperMac is using the 30-pin dock connector without licensed permission from Apple. Apple licenses the use of the dock connector to many manufactures, and sells a number of extended battery chargers through their own online and retail channels on behalf of 3rd part hardware manufacturers.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions you might have about the case.
post #48 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

This really sucks. Apple needs to provide low-cost licensing for the MagSafe. Acceptable alternatives would be to have a secondary charging port or replaceable batteries.

What this means for me is that I'll need to buy a PC simply because I couldn't power my MacBook on some of the trips I go on.

While it's there right just as it's mine not to buy there products, it does suck. I'd love for Apple to at least release a DC charger accessory like you can find from other notebook makers. Having to use an invertor is a waste of equipment and power.
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post #49 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

You need a hobby. Too much anger.

That's rich...

You guys need a life - or to at least to take a break from the incessant trolling.
/sock puppetry that goes on here. As I posted, complaining about the 60 pin dock connector - especially now that it's a defacto standard is pretty inane.
post #50 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post

Bad form dude, really bad form. You're not asking questions, you're insulting. You're not defending Apple, which isn't your responsibility anyway, you're attacking someone else's expression of THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES

You must be new. If they were real experiences, or if the people Sol was responding to weren't obvious trolls I doubt you would have seen that kind of response from him.

Quote:
and their desire to see the MagSafe connector licensed to 3rd party manufacturers.

1) he wasn't complaining about the MagSafe - that might actually make sense.

2) even if he was, it makes no sense to be looking for an AA to MagSafe for laptops. I think it's pretty obvious why no one would make an AA to MagSafe
post #51 of 173
Oops!
post #52 of 173
Well, this thread is officially overrun by the troll army.
post #53 of 173
In an attempt to get back on track while wishing vBulletin didn’t show postings sans content of ignored posters, I found it odd when I first learned of HyperMac selling battery packs with the MagSafe connector that there wasn’t any word that others were selling them too or that Apple had started licensing this IP.

I think there was one other vendor doing it about the same time, but HyperMac looked to have the most reasonable looking products.
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post #54 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, this thread is officially overrun by the troll army.

Not really, just a two or three man cheer squad. I do wish the management would enforce anti-trolling rules and boot these clowns and their sock puppet successors as soon as they re-appear.
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post #55 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You werent able to find an external charger for an iPhone? Another foolish lie or showing just how incompetent you are since Apple licenses their 30-pin Dock Connector? (I'm just asking questions here)

'another foolish lie'? 'incompetent'?
do you know this person or are you just an obnoxious scumbag 24/7?
post #56 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Not really, just a two or three man cheer squad. I do wish the management would enforce anti-trolling rules and boot these clowns and their sock puppet successors as soon as they re-appear.

as long as they pass down judgment fairly and boot the name calling apple fanatics as well.
post #57 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Reread the part of my post where I said I found them via mailorder upon my return.

That you claim you couldn't find it locally is specious.

Quote:
And please lighten up on the personal remarks.

If you were anything but continually anti-apple and negative you might get fewer sardonic responses.

You reap what you sew. If you don't like the quality or tone of the comments towards your posts, you might want to consider changing the tone of them instead of always blaming the people responding to you as having the problem.
post #58 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

as long as they pass down judgment fairly and boot the name calling apple fanatics as well.

Trying to take as many with you as you can?

You do realize this is an apple fan site?

Then again of course you do - that's why your here
post #59 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

That you claim you couldn't find it locally is specious.



If you were anything but continually anti-apple and negative you might get fewer sardonic responses.

You reap what you sew. If you don't like the quality or tone of the comments towards your posts, you might want to consider changing the tone of them instead of always blaming the people responding to you as having the problem.

while i see no point in being here and always being anti-apple, being negative or anti-apple does not mean every gets to just do personal attacks cuz they don't like an opinion.

oh and you reap what you 'sow' not 'sew' (unless you are seamstress) lol.
post #60 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Not really, just a two or three man cheer squad. I do wish the management would enforce anti-trolling rules and boot these clowns and their sock puppet successors as soon as they re-appear.

I count 8 trolls in 57 posts, with multiple posts per troll in most cases. Maybe HyperMac called up Rent-A-Troll.
post #61 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Trying to take as many with you as you can?

You do realize this is an apple fan site?

Then again of course you do - that's why your here

yes i do realize it is an 'apple information' site. after i purchased my apple products i came here. and i can praise the apple things i like and i can put in my 2 cents on apple products i don't like. i see no difference in someone being a jerk and anti-apple and a jerk who is pro-apple. both just jerks.
post #62 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4miler View Post

Back to topic.

Spoil sport

Quote:
I was furious when I read Apple's legal action against HyperMac.

I have a long-life HyperMac battery. Said to last around 10-12 hours. If Apple does not allow other manufacturers to make these products for the Mac -- and Apple does not -- then it is just plain spitefulness.

For the MagSafe, I agree. Especially with Apple moving to non-removable batteries in notebooks. If Apple has a licensing program for MagSafe I retract my criticism and shame on HyperMac, but I have never heard of such a program that exists for MagSafe like it exists for the iPod connector.
post #63 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

It's really too bad that Apple refuses to allow their proprietary connector to have much of an ecosystem.

It sounds to me like these products are in a woefully underserved category. I tried and tried to find an external disposable battery charger in a local store and went empty-handed into the electricity-free camping zone. No plugging my iPhone into AA power. No nothing until I got back with a dead phone and saw some obscure stuff on the 'web.

Apple's lockdowns and their proprietary ways both just plain suck.

There are many emergency units that include a USB power port or DC car outlet port (or both) for hooking up portable devices while camping. This company could also easily create battery units that have a USB port & car port, which would cover both iPhone/iPad/iPod touch devices & laptops (if you have laptop car charger).

This company decided to do it this way, despite it obviously infringing on Apple's patents, and when Apple contacted them they blew them off. No one is to blame except this company.

Apple has to patent their inventions to protect them, they then license them so that 3rd parties can make accessories for their products (this also provides quality control). Licensing a product isn't free for a company, they have to pay employees to manage that program and lawyers to protect patents against companies like HyperMac. If they make a little money off the licensing, big whoop, it's their invention. Apple then has an obligation to go after companies that violate these patents, otherwise it isn't fair to those who have played by the rules.

People get so up in arms that companies protect their intellectual property, they think they are just entitled to take what they want. If companies can't patent good ideas why in the world would they waste time on developing them. If companies couldn't protect their intellectual property they wouldn't innovate, there would be no money in it. Come back to reality, we all have to make a living.
post #64 of 173
Okay, I don't get it.

What value does Apple find in suing accessory makers? When I choose a computer or other product, having lots of accessories available from many sources makes me more willing to choose that brand and model than one where there's hardly any accessories available.

Imagine if Apple started suing the makers of iPod/iPhone cases? They'd hurt their image even more.

If a company is selling lots of portable battery packs for Macbooks, it means people are buying and using Macbooks. This is a good thing, and Apple doesn't even sell a product in this space!

Also, Hypermac seems to be using genuine Apple-made magsafe plugs, not manufacturing their own. They're not even violating patents.

And the dock connector is an industry-standard connector; Apple did NOT invent it.

They're shooting themselves in the foot by suing. It just makes them look bad to bite the hands that feed them, albeit indirectly.
post #65 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

while i see no point in being here and always being anti-apple, being negative or anti-apple does not mean every gets to just do personal attacks cuz they don't like an opinion.

And just because people don't agree with you it doesn't mean they are automatically personally attacking you

And even if they do, who cares? Rather than worrying about getting people banned (they just come back anyway) it's far more effective to just ignore them. Were all a little narcissistic for posting here in the first place Silence is the best troll repellant by far.
post #66 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

You must be new. If they were real experiences, or if the people Sol was responding to weren't obvious trolls I doubt you would have seen that kind of response from him.



1) he wasn't complaining about the MagSafe - that might actually make sense.

2) even if he was, it makes no sense to be looking for an AA to MagSafe for laptops. I think it's pretty obvious why no one would make an AA to MagSafe

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

His comment had nothing to do with MagSafe, which I hate not being licesnsed, but with him blaming Apple for his inability to find a battery charger with a 30-pin Dock Connector connected or standard USB connector that could use the iPhone's native cable, with or without a simple adapter.

PS: how long has Apple used the USB-capable 30-pin Dock Connector and how many devices does that cover?

After rereading, yes, I was wrong about the magsafe bit. Conceded. I guess I need to learn to read a bit better (as we all do, at times, no?) And it does look like Newtron is either trolling or just one of those guys who likes to complain. I haven't been visiting the forums that much recently, so I haven't any basis for knowing which it is likely to be. That being said.....

Neither of those possibilities points to an insulting, aggressive reply as the proper response. If it's a troll, best way to deal with it is to note that it is a troll, and why, and calmly leave it at that. Otherwise, we're feeding the trolls.

If it is a case of the guy just enjoying complaining about stuff, then simply say, "YEP, sucks to be you" and leave it at that. There's no call for starting a flamefest without proper provocation (and yes, what actually constitutes a proper provocation is eligible for its own debate). So I stand firm, bad form.

And Doc, I really wouldn't have said anything had it been some schmo with 300 posts who lit into the guy. The fact that a grizzled ancient like Solipsism was the one who did it is what I find worrying. So in that respect, perhaps I'm being unfair to Sol, but on the other hand, the old ones are the ones who set the tone for the forums as a whole, and the individuals whose lead gets followed by the youngins. So it's important to maintain a high standard.

C
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post #67 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

... Were all a little narcissistic for posting here in the first place Silence is the best troll repellant by far.

too true.

C
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post #68 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

There are 2 separate issues at hand.

1. The iPod dock issue. Yes, if they used the dock connector without Apple's license, their products should be pulled. There ARE plenty of devices out there that can provide battery charge for an iPod or iPhone. If you don't want to pay Apple, just make a device that provides USB power to charge it. Then you can use the standard USB cable. No big deal.

2. The mag safe connector issue is different. They acquire Apple manufactured MagSafe connectors and wire them to another charging station. How can Apple control this? That seems wrong. They aren't making the connector, they are simply modifying it. A manufacturer of a product can't decide how it's being used once it's been sold. That would be like a hard drive manufacturer saying someone can't buy their external drive and extract the drive and put it in their own case. There is no warranty once you modify the device, and it's usually not cost effective, but if you want to do that, go right ahead.

But then you are also re-selling the adapter, which probably violates something else. Argument has merit but probably no leg to stand on.
post #69 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

What value does Apple find in suing accessory makers?

Protecting their patents.

Also protecting their brand. How many times do people buy knock offs that malfunction and then try to sue the manufacturer of the real article?

Unfortunately we are all paying for the actions of selfish jerks.

Quote:
Also, Hypermac seems to be using genuine Apple-made magsafe plugs, not manufacturing their own. They're not even violating patents.

They are co-opting an apple part and incorporating into their own. It probably comes down to how they are representing their work. Apple has smart attorneys - if they didn't think they had the slightest case they wouldn't be going after everything they are asking for!

Quote:
And the dock connector is an industry-standard connector; Apple did NOT invent it.

They did invent the way it's used in conjunction with their products. And they openly license it for a reasonable fee. There is no argument about the iPod dock connector.

MagSafe, on the other hand... If they don't license it, then I do have a problem with Apple suing them over their MagSafe products. I'm not saying they don't have a right to, I'm just saying it sucks if true.

Quote:
They're shooting themselves in the foot by suing. It just makes them look bad to bite the hands that feed them, albeit indirectly.

Shooting themselves in the foot with whom? Trolls that hate them anyway and post on message boards?

Certainly not their core audience of consumers. Heck the vast majority of people don't even pay attention to general news, let alone "inside baseball" topics like this lawsuit.
post #70 of 173
Quote:
Defendants' infringing conduct has damaged Apple and inflicted irreparable harm for which Apple seeks, among other remedies, an award of its actual damages, disgorgement of Defendants' profits from the sale of infringing devices and injunctive relief.

I'm not quite sure how Apple loses profits from these products, they don't sell external batteries.

If they ban these products, they are just harming the consumer by removing the ability to take a Mac laptop or iOS device on a long journey like a camping trip. That will drive people to buy non-Apple devices that they can take with them.
post #71 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Thank you.

And BTW, I was looking in a suburb of one of the top-10 biggest cities in the US. The suburb alone has a population of over 100k. I went to both a Radio Shack and a well-stocked specialty electronics store, as well as lesser, but more local possibilities, like Walgreens.

Nothing.

That's too bad. You should ditch your iPhone.
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post #72 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I'm not quite sure how Apple loses profits from these products, they don't sell external batteries.

If they ban these products, they are just harming the consumer by removing the ability to take a Mac laptop or iOS device on a long journey like a camping trip. That will drive people to buy non-Apple devices that they can take with them.

Great, and we hope that Hackintosh and Johnny Blewtrons go ahead and buy the competitors products.

In other news, there are plenty of people who license the use of these connectors and you can buy products from them.
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post #73 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

It's really too bad that Apple refuses to allow their proprietary connector to have much of an ecosystem.

It sounds to me like these products are in a woefully underserved category. I tried and tried to find an external disposable battery charger in a local store and went empty-handed into the electricity-free camping zone. No plugging my iPhone into AA power. No nothing until I got back with a dead phone and saw some obscure stuff on the 'web.

Apple's lockdowns and their proprietary ways both just plain suck.

No it's not too bad.
post #74 of 173
This topic (ranting) has made me look at alternatives. I came across a really interesting hobby-site about building your own AA iPhone/iPod charger that will fit in an Altoids tin can. Very cool and leave room for boosting the power if need be. I suggest reading all the sub-articles. Makes for a very interesting read.

http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/index.html
post #75 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I'm not quite sure how Apple loses profits from these products, they don't sell external batteries.

If they ban these products, they are just harming the consumer by removing the ability to take a Mac laptop or iOS device on a long journey like a camping trip. That will drive people to buy non-Apple devices that they can take with them.

Not at all -- by regulating sellers of charging accessories they're avoiding Cranky Joe's House of Car Battery Adapterz selling some screwy adapter that trashes your iPhone/iPod/iPad by charging it with unregulated voltage through a half-assed adapter. Since Cranky Joe is very unlikely to care about your toasted device, guess who probably gets saddled with your unwarranted warranty repair request? Apple has every right to regulate accessories to their devices, because it absolutely affects their bottom line.
post #76 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

Okay, I don't get it.

What value does Apple find in suing accessory makers? When I choose a computer or other product, having lots of accessories available from many sources makes me more willing to choose that brand and model than one where there's hardly any accessories available.

.....

And the dock connector is an industry-standard connector; Apple did NOT invent it.

They're shooting themselves in the foot by suing. It just makes them look bad to bite the hands that feed them, albeit indirectly.


There are alot of accessory makers who pay the licensing fee for the dock connector to make their products. Why should one accessory maker get away without paying and have an advantage? Is that fair to the other accessory makers. It's Apple's duty to make sure everyone fairly pays the licensing fee.
post #77 of 173
there are a number of licensed products out there - so is the issue that this company is using and or reselling and or making Apple patented products/components without the proper license?

as for extra juice for you iDevice when traveling in addition to those already listed any google search for items such as iphone battery case or iphone battery - will get lots of results, such as:

http://www.mophie.com/SearchResults....FYVk7AodBhF6Dw

With many of them available at Best Buy (over 1100 stores nationwide).

as for magsafe - there are items such as this:
http://www.buy.com/prod/new-60w-ac-p...211960033.html

the real trouble is not finding such products - but finding high quality products as reasonable prices.

on the HyperMac website - the product itself does not appear to have a dock connector or magsafe connector - but they do show a cable with magsafe connector and a cable with dock connector so maybe that is the problem area - perhaps the folsk at hypermac thought since they did not design their own cable from scratch - or manufacture the magsafe connector themselves that they did not need to license the patents (or how ever you say that).
post #78 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post

blah blah blah...
C

Aaaaaaaaaand after going back though Newtron's entire post history, I think I'm gonna go ahead and cast my vote for "Marketing Contractor hired by Microsoft to disparage Apple in Online Forums". Still, the best response, I think, to this is to just quickly make note that he's a troll/plant, and move on. Taking the wind out of his sails (pun intended) is more effective than getting mad at him. And I'd rather have him here, where he's unlikely to do any damage, than running amok elsewhere. Besides, when he spends his time here, he accomplishes nothing, but can still bill Microsoft for the time he spent doing it.

C
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post #79 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

as for magsafe - there are items such as this:
http://www.buy.com/prod/new-60w-ac-p...211960033.html
.

Now I'm gonna guess that THAT thing is almost certainly a patent infringement.

C
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post #80 of 173
I despise these immoral lawsuits.

It should be legal for HyperMac, without paying licensing fees, to manufacture a product that can plug into an accessory port on an Apple product.

Allowing companies to make incompatible ports, and then to charge licensing fees to sell something that fits into those ports? That is not what I'd call fair or beneficial to our society or economy.

Remember, all laws are enforced at the end of a gun, by violence. I don't consider it moral to point a gun at somebody because they made something that can plug into an accessory port.

Idea ownership ("intellectual property") has gotten way out of hand.
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