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RIM could unveil its answer to Apple's iPad next week - Page 3

post #81 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0yvind View Post

I could. And I'm quite shure Apple is preparing one, like a smaller & lighter "iPad Nano" or expanded "Touch".

What I'd be very unshure of, however, is buying a gadget like this new Blacpad with a totally new and unproven operating system, made by a third party they've aquired (if the reports are correct). It will be interesting to see how this is going to work together with their old blacberry apps and environment. Or maybe they opt for a total, fresh "restart"?

QNX has been around a very long time, and has had a very respectable reputation. I would not dismiss them based on the RIM purchase. Oh speaking as a 3G owner that tried to run 4.0 on his iPhone, Apple would be able to learn a thing or two from QNX.
post #82 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

QNX has been around a very long time, and has had a very respectable reputation. I would not dismiss them based on the RIM purchase. Oh speaking as a 3G owner that tried to run 4.0 on his iPhone, Apple would be able to learn a thing or two from QNX.

So true

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post #83 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Google 'blackpad iPad killer' and you already get 68,500 hits.

I hate the phrase not because of any real threat, but because its just such lazy journalism.

In this case, AI did not use the phrase and neither did Blackberry. It's not lazy journalism so much as lazy criticism. "Oh, Blackberry wants to make a tablet? Obviously, it's supposed to be an iPad killer and it will fail."
post #84 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I think it is time to notice (again) how Apple has been able to turn the name "pad" into the standard term for a thin tablet. Lest we forget, only 6 or 7 months ago the term was derided by trolls and Apple critics and openly questioned by many supporters. Now? It is the unquestioned standard...

Anyway, I am curious to see what RIM comes up with.

Apple took a common name for thin tablets and prefixed it with an "i". It isn't a wonderful new creation but a simple retasking of common usage.

Don't get me wrong Apple does do wonderful things but in this case they just brought up rights to a preexisting mark. The fact that Apple is doing real business on the product is another issue altogether.
post #85 of 143
Quote:
RIM bought QNX, which makes operating systems for everything from "cars to nuclear reactors."

Should go down a bomb then. Sorry couldn't resist.
Bye!
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post #86 of 143
The integrated thumbwheel is going to kick the iPad's ass!
post #87 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Apple took a common name for thin tablets and prefixed it with an "i". It isn't a wonderful new creation but a simple retasking of common usage.

Don't get me wrong Apple does do wonderful things but in this case they just brought up rights to a preexisting mark. The fact that Apple is doing real business on the product is another issue altogether.

Likewise, "pod" is just a word, meaning among other things, a school of whales. Nobody would seriously argue that Apple hasn't made it synonymous with something entirely new and different in the popular culture. Recalling also that before its release, the iPad was widely rumored to be called the iSlate, and also referred to as Apple's forthcoming tablet computer. So this choice of names did matter. RIM could easily have called their tablet the BlackSlate, which has a marketing logic of its own -- but they chose to call it a "pad," and not without good reason.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #88 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

Should go down a bomb then. Sorry couldn't resist.
Bye!

Which, curiously enough, has just the opposite meaning in American and British slang!
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #89 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.........

Apparently there is a pent-up demand for tablets in hospitals, medical facilities, etc. It appears that several companies are targeting 7" tablets for this use. I would think the larger screen iPad would be a superior solution.

.

OK how does a larger screen actually work better in the above described industries? Remember you are talking about people that are constantly on the go. IPads size is an issue for many potential business users. It is simply to big to carry around on a long shift. Oh it isn't the wieght either, but rather the size. To be useful the pad would have to go in the same pockets as the rest of stuff these professionals carry.
post #90 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Yes they do. You can buy Blackberry accessories in pretty much every outlet that sells iPhone accessories.

Don't forget that Blackberries outsell iPhones by a huge margin.

I think that when he said "vibrant ecosystem" he was mostly referring to the apps and media companies that support the iOS platform, although you are right that RIM has a vibrant ecosystem of users, re-sellers, accessory makers etc.

To me RIM's essential problem is that the iPad is primarily a slick, passive media consumption device. Something the Blackberry (or any of RIMs products), didn't even do until recently and has never done well. Unless the berryPad is aimed at business users (and thus not even competing with iPad), I don't see why anyone is going to buy one. Apple has better deals with the media moguls, it has iTunes, it has the app store, etc. etc.

They could show up Apple by making a business pad that you can do serious work on, but somehow I think they are likely to aim at the wrong market segment again and thus fail.
post #91 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

Wrong. There are good reasons why books and magazines aren't printed landscape.

You seem to forget one important thing here, a little something called screen rotation. In a small device a wide aspect ratio is much better at displaying a column of text. In fact the difference is huge in comparison to a 4:3 aspect ratio that offers little advantage when rotated. Likewise for book reading. Look at a column of text in a paper back book, what is the aspect ration of that column of text? The text not the paper page.
post #92 of 143
Quote:
which makes operating systems for everything from "cars to nuclear reactors.

Nuclear reactor UIs are very, very nice.
post #93 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

For those of us that follow such things, another couple of milestones have been reached-- one earlier today.

AAPL surpasses MSFT market value by $50 Billion.

AAPL market value is 1,135% of DELL market value.

... maybe Apple should take part of that $42 Billion cash, buy Dell, liquidate it, and pay off the shareholders.




.


For consumers, is any of that important?
post #94 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

To me RIM's essential problem is that the iPad is primarily a slick, passive media consumption device. Something the Blackberry (or any of RIMs products), didn't even do until recently and has never done well. Unless the berryPad is aimed at business users (and thus not even competing with iPad), I don't see why anyone is going to buy one. Apple has better deals with the media moguls, it has iTunes, it has the app store, etc. etc.

They could show up Apple by making a business pad that you can do serious work on, but somehow I think they are likely to aim at the wrong market segment again and thus fail.

My guess is that the RIM will be a hybrid which capitalizes on the platform's existing strengths, while overlapping other markets.

For example, while enterprise acceptance will likely dwarf anything Apple is likely to see, its form factor likely will work much better for casual video watching too. I see wide acceptance, despite it being optimal for certain users and not a "lowest common denominator" appliance.
post #95 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

OK how does a larger screen actually work better in the above described industries? Remember you are talking about people that are constantly on the go. IPads size is an issue for many potential business users. It is simply to big to carry around on a long shift. Oh it isn't the wieght either, but rather the size. To be useful the pad would have to go in the same pockets as the rest of stuff these professionals carry.

Bigger screen and wider viewing angle is better:

-- to display video & images: Scans, XRays, etc. and share with colleagues and patients.
-- to handwrite notes RXs
-- bigger virtual kb and larger remaining display area for typing.

Carrying, pocket size is an issue. I don't know if the pockets on Lab Coats or Scrubs are large enough to hold the iPad-- I searched and couldn't find an answer.

A soccer teammate of my granddaughter attends a medical high school -- I know she wears scrubs, and I'll check to see if she has access to lab coats. (She says her cell phone gets lost in her scrubs).

But, even if the pockets are large enough for an iPad or a 7" tablet, they would need to be re-enforced and weight-distributed to be comfortable.

I suspect that some enterprising person will design an underarm, over the shoulder, holster for the iPad... Maybe I will, what with carrying an iPhone, iPad, Camera Bag, Tripod, Folding chair and a water bottle to soccer practice and games.

A comfortable, utilitarian iPad holster would, likely, be acceptable in the fashion-agnostic medical profession.

.
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post #96 of 143
Quote:
You seem to forget one important thing here, a little something called screen rotation. In a small device a wide aspect ratio is much better at displaying a column of text. In fact the difference is huge in comparison to a 4:3 aspect ratio that offers little advantage when rotated. Likewise for book reading. Look at a column of text in a paper back book, what is the aspect ration of that column of text? The text not the paper page.


Which is why books are printed without margins and the pages are single sided, so I can enjoy that special "one column at a time" experience in the skinniest possible form factor?

For instance, is my reading experience improved by slicing off the margins of this?:



Or is there something off-putting about this presentation?:



Sure, widescreen is better for some videos. I don't think it's reasonable to argue that it's better for reading books or web browsing or any number of apps, since more screen real estate is more screen real estate.
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post #97 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider;1719043 In August, RIM held a high-profile publicity event to launch the BlackBerry Torch, a smartphone meant to compete with the iPhone 4.[c

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ][/c]

Is it possible that we will see a review on the "blackpad" that will echo this one on the torch.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/rims-b...of-mouth/38097

Although RIM failed to generate any Apple-ish buzz with the launch of the Torch, folks that have played with the device say its not as bad as portrayed. In fact, expectations seem to be low enough for the Torch that many users will be pleasantly surprised.

In other words ... oh well, we weren't expecting much ... and we weren't disappointed. priceless!
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post #98 of 143
.

Some prior threads (now dead) were discussing market share vs profits. Here's another source:





http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/...strys-profits/

.
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post #99 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Which is why books are printed without margins and the pages are single sided, so I can enjoy that special "one column at a time" experience in the skinniest possible form factor?

For instance, is my reading experience improved by slicing off the margins of this?:



Or is there something off-putting about this presentation?:



Sure, widescreen is better for some videos. I don't think it's reasonable to argue that it's better for reading books or web browsing or any number of apps, since more screen real estate is more screen real estate.

IMO, the portrait view adds margins that are more then twice as wide as normal. Firat there is the nice white margin, and then a huge black margin.

The format looks suboptimal to me. Slavishly following an old medium in order to offer a lookalike replica on a new medium rarely works best.
post #100 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

Nuclear reactor UIs are very, very nice.

... don't touch that button!
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post #101 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

1st post woot. Will be looking forward to how this RIM pad plays out.

I have a feeling that will be no where of note. Not because it sucks but because of timing. Unless they announced it and it hits stores the next day then by the time it does hit stores the ipad will be so entrenched that no one will make any headway. By the time they might, a bigger and badder ipad will release and they will lose ground again.

Sure they might grab a few of the "I refuse to buy anything Apple makes" crowd and a few of the "Flash rules everything around me" crowd but in the end, the mass cut is folks that are fine and dandy with the ipad that are already buying before this thing goes 'tickle me elmo' on them

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #102 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

What I always find the most interesting in this is not that Apple is at 260 billion but that Microsoft actually dropped from over 500 billion.

I would expect Apple to be at 260 because they are doing everything well at this point and selling very well. What always gets me is how badly Microsoft has dropped over the years.

Here's MSFT for the Last 10 years:




And AAPL:



.
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post #103 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Sure they might grab a few of the "I refuse to buy anything Apple makes" crowd and a few of the "Flash rules everything around me" crowd


What about the "I've been a RIM customer like forever, I love my Blackberry, and this thing looks really cool" crowd?

There are a lot more RIM customers than there are iPhone customers.
post #104 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

What about the "I've been a RIM customer like forever, I love my Blackberry, and this thing looks really cool" crowd?

There are a lot more RIM customers than there are iPhone customers.

And most of them got that way by being legacy business customers who prize having a pocketable business communications device that does a great job of handling messaging.

There's nothing to suggest that customer base is hankering for a tablet that does the same thing except without the pocketability, or, if they want a tablet that does different things differently, explains why they wouldn't just get a tablet that does those things really well.

It was a short hop from the iPhone/Mac to the iPad, with an emphasis on ease of use, rich media experience, and customer pleasing emphasis on carefully integrated hardware and software.

What is it about the "Blackberry experience" that calls out for a tablet version, other than all the cool kids are doing it? The whole point is that you can keep your email and messaging in your pocket.
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post #105 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

Some prior threads (now dead) were discussing market share vs profits. Here's another source:





http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/...strys-profits/

.

Thanks for those. I love charts!
post #106 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

But no sex. I'll pass.


What are you ....British?
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post #107 of 143
.

Your company motto is Dont be evil. Right now your stock price is $513. How low will it have to go before you say thats it, were going with evil.

Stephen Colbert to Google CEO Eric Schmidt

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/

.
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post #108 of 143
If RIM's making a Blackberry tablet, then I hope it has a physical keyboard!
Y'know, like Speak N Spell.
post #109 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by dak splunder View Post

If RIM's making a Blackberry tablet, then I hope it has a physical keyboard!
Y'know, like Speak N Spell.



Here's the latest that they have announced:





















The guy at the ATT store said they are selling well. It seems to have both a physical keyboard and a full sized touchscreen.

My guess is that because RIM know what it is doing WRT physical keyboards, it will surprise us WRT its tablet.
post #110 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I could be wrong because I didn't pull up the data before posting this but I think Microsoft had a market cap drop of about 250 billion from 1999 to 2001. From about 580 to 315 or so.

If I am right on those numbers talk about a fall from grace.

Yes, MS cap was over double what it is now, but remember that was all false inflation from the dotCom boom that made it so. What those graphs are really showing are a steady and consistence climb for Apple and stagnation for MS (when you factor in extra-market affects on those companies.

If Apple had nothing but vapourware with lofty promises and/or a huge E/P then I would fear that Apples growth bubble will pop, but as shareholders we know that their E/P isnt egregious, that their earnings back up their growth rate, and that arent likely to even acknowledge a products existence until its almost ready to ship (or at least the contracts for components and manufacturing have been inked, even if there are occasional hiccups). Take Palm, for example, I wish I would have bought them for the short term when they announced WebOS. They jumped 14x in about 5-6 months, but that dropped after they couldnt deliver on actual sales and profit.

PS: MS still makes more profit than Apple, and as of the last earnings made slightly more revenue. That isnt to last long based on current trends, but I would not count MS out when they have so much control and profit to make a huge comeback if they get their internal structure and management issues resolved. They may be a slow and inefficient giant, but it will take a lot to bring down this giant. At this point MS is more immobilized* than hurt.

* Pun intended in referring to their inability to be dominate on smartphones and tablets.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #111 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggarthomas View Post

RIM is not Samsung or one of these upstart pad maker. Take them seriously or suffer.

Blackberry Torch
post #112 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Why so defensive? Nobody said anything about an "iPad killer." Do you simply expect all companies to sit back and say, "Well, the iPad dominates the tablet market. Let's not try to get a share of that"? What if Apple had said, "Windows dominates the PC market. Let's forget this Mac garbage. We'll never beat them"?

Even when Apple's MacOS 9 was getting trounced by Windows, Steve Jobs did not rush OS X to market. He spent a few years getting the first serviceable version out the door (and continued to make it better). Then Apple spent a long time on iPhone, iPad, etc.

The problem with most of these companies is they are rushing their tablet or phone responses to market. For example, this whole Nokia N8 delay has me particularly in stitches. Delaying by just a few weeks to improve the customer experience?!?!? They should have had both a hardware and software freeze long before getting to the "few weeks before shipping" phase, assuming the device can be updated later. (If not, then they are in big trouble.) And RIM is investigating a new OS for its tablet. Really? And this is a device that's coming THIS YEAR?!?!?

Until some company has the $$$, vision, taste, and (above all) patience to obsess for years over a device and get it right (like Apple does) they are going to have a hard time even matching the polish of the Apple offerings, let alone exceed them.

Thompson
post #113 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

And yet, they outsell Apple year in, year out.

Comparison of the first derivatives don't look good for RIM. Neither does the anecdotal data coming from corporations that are testing whether to move to iPhone from Blackberry.

Thompson
post #114 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Comparison of the first derivatives don't look good for RIM. Neither does the anecdotal data coming from corporations that are testing whether to move to iPhone from Blackberry.

Thompson

I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence, but the second is not something I've really followed. I've seen a few second-hand anecdotal claims, but nothing more substantial. From everything I've seen RIM has little to worry about in the enterprise market.

Not at present, anyways. But as you indicate, the trends don't look so good.

Then again, vis-a-vis Android, iOS trends don't look so good either, and I have no doubt that Apple will continue to be successful for a long time.

This mobile phone market is very exciting. Throwing tablets into the mix makes it even more so.
post #115 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Videos would be better widescreen. But website browsing on landscape mode on iPad is just nice, I think.

Agreed, and I would note also that if making the iPad (or competitor) a 16:9 aspect ratio involves shaving off a few inches of glass top and bottom when in landscape mode (as opposed to increasing the other dimension and making a larger, heavier, device) then I would rather see the black pixels above and below while watching the video. At least I would know that those black pixels would be put to good use as soon as I close the movie.

:-)

Thompson
post #116 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here's MSFT for the Last 10 years:




And AAPL:



.

It's even more impressive when you realize that, unlike the Microsoft chart, the Apple chart is a logarithmic scale.
post #117 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggarthomas View Post

The smart thing to do is to respect all competition. Arrogance breeds complacency and ultimate defeat. Apple needs to study this RIM product very carefully and work to counter any advantages that it may have. RIM is not Samsung or one of these upstart pad maker. Take them seriously or suffer.

Apple ain't got to do jack s***! RIM is obviously jumping on the bandwagon because they have to stay competitive. yet their Blackpad ain't going to do anything to the ipad. Apple's roots are in engineering and software. That sh** is in their DNA.
But good luck to RIM though.
post #118 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacto Joe View Post

It's even more impressive when you realize that, unlike the Microsoft chart, the Apple chart is a logarithmic scale.

Man oh man. Why does this sort of thing happen so often?
post #119 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence, but the second is not something I've really followed. I've seen a few second-hand anecdotal claims, but nothing more substantial. From everything I've seen RIM has little to worry about in the enterprise market.

You should visit this link everyday: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=AAPL

not necessarily to track the stock information, but for the headlines that appear below. There have been many significant articles recently about the iPhone's encroachment in the enterprise. Those headlines change hourly, and there's nothing apropos there right now. You can seek back through history, if you had the time or inkling, or you could just trust me.

And from a first-hand standpoint, my current employer, SAIC, just approved iPhone 4 for work use. My colleagues are swarming.

Thompson
post #120 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newtron View Post

Then again, vis-a-vis Android, iOS trends don't look so good either, and I have no doubt that Apple will continue to be successful for a long time.

Well the Android/Apple comparison is different from the Apple/RIM comparison in important ways. I won't bother calling them out here unless you make me.

Thompson
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