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Learning to Love Richard Dawkins - Page 2

post #41 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Then who or what intervened in the Alien's evolution?

Maybe nothing. Maybe they are God.

In any event there is no reason to suppose on our current knowledge anything about them really.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #42 of 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

The universe is 18 billion years old - i.e. it has a finite history, and it started with a point source of energy. Any "creator" had to either evolve from the products of the big bang or come from outside the universe.

This is said better than my reply to Fine tunes above.

A 'creator' could be merely be a constituent part of a previous or greater 'universe' and this universe merely a product of their experimentation.

What is 'outside the universe' from our pov could actually be 'reality' and we and this universe (and everything in it) a temporary or 'artificial' creation.

There is no reason to suppose the laws of this greater universe would bear any relation to ours.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

A 'creator' could be merely be a constituent part of a previous or greater 'universe' and this universe merely a product of their experimentation.

Why would they wait so long, though? Waiting 14 billion years before the Earth was created (stars had to live their full life and explode before any of the heavy elements were available, for one thing). Waiting another four billion years before life came about.

These long timeframes point to one thing to me - start it off and lets see what happens, without intervention. Having them come in later, to one insignificant planet out of trillions of planets in the universe, and creating some protiens there to start the basis for life, it just does not seem to fit.
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post #44 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Why would they wait so long, though? Waiting 14 billion years before the Earth was created (stars had to live their full life and explode before any of the heavy elements were available, for one thing). Waiting another four billion years before life came about.

These long timeframes point to one thing to me - start it off and lets see what happens, without intervention. Having them come in later, to one insignificant planet out of trillions of planets in the universe, and creating some protiens there to start the basis for life, it just does not seem to fit.

That's because you are looking at it from our pov....why assume that what is a massive period of time to us in this universe would be a massive period to something outside.

Maybe there is even 'no time' there.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #45 of 49
What we call "time" is an interesting thing. It could be the topic of an entirely new thread.

I have stated in another thread that I believe the 6 creative periods outlined in the Bible were not "days" as we know them. I believe they were distinct periods of time of unknown length. Each of them very well could have been millions or billions of our years.

And why assume that God does not operate within the so-called "Laws of Nature"? If He did indeed create the known universe, He must also have created those Laws - or acted in accordance with them if they already existed.

There is much we still do not understand.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #46 of 49
Or there could be no God, much simpler explanation imho. No evidence for a god, no need for a god to explain everything that has happened = no god unless one shows up some day...
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post #47 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Or there could be no God, much simpler explanation imho. No evidence for a god, no need for a god to explain everything that has happened = no god unless one shows up some day...

Why? It is highly irrational. Try some logic:

1) We exist in this universe

2) We know that this universe had a beginning but do not know what - if anything - was before.

3) We know there may well be other universes.

4) All religions claim that God - if He exists - exists outside or before the universe.

So given all that, what the statement 'there is no God' or 'there is probably no God' boils down to is:

Quote:
I do not know and cannot know what was there before the universe and I do not know and cannot know what is outside the universe at this moment

BUT

I am going to make sweeping statements about it that proclaim a certainty.

Just curious - leaving God out of it would you expand your statement to one such as the following:

There is no life outside the universe, or to quote you correctly:

Quote:
Or there could be no life of any description outside this universe, much simpler explanation imho.

If not why not? If you just mean a specific religious conception of God why not say so? You'd be right - it is highly unlikely a human conception of God exists anywhere - but that's because it is a human conception of God

That's very different to saying 'no God exists'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #48 of 49
I'm not saying "no God exists", I'm saying "It does not matter if he exists or not, we should assume no god exists until one actually shows up"
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post #49 of 49


imagine
Quote:
imagine there's no heaven
it's easy if you try
no hell below us
above us only sky
imagine all the people
living for today

imagine there's no countries
it isn't hard to do
nothing to kill or die for
and no religion too
imagine all the people
living life in peace

you may say that i'm a dreamer
but i'm not the only one
i hope someday you'll join us
and the world will be as one

imagine no possessions
i wonder if you can
no need for greed or hunger
a brotherhood of man
imagine all the people
sharing all the world

you may say that i'm a dreamer
but i'm not the only one
i hope someday you'll join us
and the world will live as one
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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