[quote]Originally posted by stimuli:
<strong>Originally posted by SDW2001:
If you resent us, I understand why. We have the best economy and overall standard of living in the whole world. </strong>
ROTFL! Best overall standard of living? America has one of the worst standards, especially considering the fact that America is the wealthiest country. The Division between rich and poor is huge. Tell someone from Compton that the have the best standard of living. Or Detroit. Or a Mexican emigre working on a pesticide ridden farm.[/QB]
<strong> We decided to let the people run our government, not the military. </strong>
So it was the will of the people to invade Korea? Vietnam? What about Panama? Cuba? Haiti? What about backing Both Saddam Hussein (sp?) and Osama with weapons and finances? Remember that? Does the name Oliver North ring a bell? Are you familiar with the term 'hegemony'?
<strong>We decided to allow free speech.</strong> Try burning an American Flag in protest.
<strong> We decided to allow freedom of the press. </strong>
<strong>We decided to allow government transparency. </strong> See above.
<strong>We tried out a new system of government</strong> Democracy was invented by the greeks over a thousand years ago.
<strong>Did we have states leaving the union and forming their own tribal militias? No. </strong>
The last time that happened, and it DID happen, America's North betrayed its own constitution and engaged in civil war, forcing the South to be apart of the US, regardless of the abuses it was sustaining from the North to spark this conflict. And no, the civil war was not about slavery.
<strong>And now, after all we have been through, after we have defended nation after nation, intervened time and time again, literally saved the civilized world from evil facists, and defeated an oppressive superpower</strong>
First, what you don't seem to realize is that America IS an opressive superpower. Second, saving who? Korea/Vietnam from themselves? Intervened... to protect oil interests? Quit making like America isn't greedy and selfish, like your evil bogeymen enemies are. Saving the world from evil fascists... please.You've been reading AOL-Time-Warner-Turner publications in your hegemonic country again, aren't you?
You decide we are decadent, fat and lazy. [QB] It's off topic, but hey, America has the highest percentage of obesity, last I checked.
[QB] You decide that we must be destroyed because we have abused our power and become an evil empire ourselves.
'You'? Who? those darkies, those Ay-rabs in the 'axis of evil'?
<strong>You have people starving, dying in the streets.</strong>
Unlike America? Wake up, rich white boy.
<strong> You have shitty, little pathetic militaries, the largest of which we could take out with a few 1980's era fighter/bombers.</strong>
And that is the proof that America is a better country? Because they spend billions more on bombs and tanks and helicopters?
I can't believe you have the audacity to posit that America has it 'all figured out' and that your solution to the problems of the world is for everyone to be more like America. Wake up and smell the coffee. Your **** stinks, too.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
There are so many problems with this post I almost don't know where to start. but here goes:
1. I agree we have many poor. But, the overall standard of living, especially for the middle-middle class, is much higher. We do have poor immigrants and decaying inner cities, granted. But, the size and scope our middle class is much greater than in other nations. In particular, our upper middle class (say, those making 70-200,000 a year) is huge when compared to other nations.
2. Military: Our elected leaders made those decisions. The legislative and executive branches control the military. Many other nations have military dictatorships. You forget we do not live in a direct democracy; we live in a republic.
3. Flag burning is legal. If someone kicks your ass for it, that's not my problem. Sue them....you'd win.
4. Democracy: We were, indeed, the first MODERN democracy. Read my original post. That system had not been tried since before the birth of Chirst. I'd say that qualifies as "first modern".
5. [quote]The last time that happened, and it DID happen, America's North betrayed its own constitution and engaged in civil war, forcing the South to be apart of the US, regardless of the abuses it was sustaining from the North to spark this conflict. <hr></blockquote>
-----What? the NORTH betrayed the constitution? What an interesting version of history! My friend, it was the SOUTH who tried to secede from the Union, which the Northern, Union states prevented. THE SOUTHERN STATES were the ones who were acting improperly.
[quote]And no, the civil war was not about slavery. <hr></blockquote>
WOW! Thanks for clearing that up! You must have done really well in "American History I" last marking period!
6. I disagree that we are oppressive. We allow government criticism, disagreement, protest, freedom of the press, religion etc. We have intervened to protect national security, which oil interests are a part of.....I'll give you that.
7. Reasonable speculation: If the US did not intervene in WWII, Germany very well may have taken all of Europe, Asia and Africa. France, Poland, Norway and many others had fallen, and Britain was within a year or so of speaking German for good. More reasonable speculation: If the US did not match the Soviet Union "blow for blow" during the cold war, we might all be speaking Russian right now.
8. Ted Turner happens to be one of the most liberal individuals on the planet.
9. "You" refers to "nations that hate us"....as the topic of the thread indicates. It is speculative. I thought that much was obvious.
10. I'm a middle class person, actually. Though, I am white. We don't have nearly the starvation that the following countries do: Cuba, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Russia and North Korea.....just to name a few.
11. Military again: You are the one who missed the point here. Many of these nations crave power. There is no question they don't have it. I am saying that part of the reason is they do not have economies that can support large militaries. This is a direct result of their oppressive regimes not allowing capitalism. Isn't there an argument that trying our system is "worth a shot", so to speak?
And finally, I never said we "have it all figured out". I said that some of the nations that hate us should, perhaps, consider trying things our way, because what they are doing obviously isn't working.
[ 06-03-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
To save time, assume I know everything.
To save time, assume I know everything.