or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Apple, Google and Microsoft to face off for 'digital living room'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple, Google and Microsoft to face off for 'digital living room' - Page 2

post #41 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I tend to agree with you. Xbox has been able to stream content for some time now, yet when Apple releases a new ATV and the new iPhone, it's decided now Apple is the winner in the living room? I know about 20x more people who own an Xbox over the ATV. Pa-leez! If you just look at the eco-systems, Apple may have an advantage, but as far as popularity goes, MS has won that one with the XBox. All they really need to do is allow Apps, which it kind of does already, and come out with a rockin' phone and they would be pretty much neck and neck with Apple. MS does need to market the Windows Media Center better. They have had this (in one form or another) well before iTunes was a glimmer in SJ's eye, yet it fails to gain much attention. Marketing and UI need improvement.

Uhhhm, "Um sees the "Global Digital Living Room," defined as the "ability to move and access content anywhere in the world,"

It's not the *living room* Living Room, it's the *lebensraum* Living Room. I don't know about you, but I don't "live" in my living room. Whereas, I do "live with" my iPad. But hey, maybe you know people that cart their X-boxes around in their rugzaks.
post #42 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Suddenly Apple decides to hypocritically eschew the existing open standard - DLNA - and introduce a competing propritry system which is all of what - 2 weeks old? - yet it is immediately declared the 'leading contender.

Your seeing the fall out of incompatible DRM.

AirPlay will be huge. With iTunes and iOS devices behind it, there will finally be a mainstream reason to use it. DNLA? Most techies aren't even going to know what that is let alone the average consumer. Why? Other than media center (another niche product) there is no compelling reason to seek it out.

I've owned a Tivo since they were first available on 2000, and media center has matured nicely but I never wanted to scrape content from cable (who along with the networks love to shift program start and stop times to screw DVR users).

I bought Tivo to "watch what I want when I want" and with minimal advertising. Apple is going in the exact direction I want - ad free content, on demand and at a reasonable price.

Quote:
Honestly, Steve Jobs' 'reality distortion field' appears to have mutated and is now contagious. i hope someone comes up with a vaccine soon.

I find the "reality distortion field" comments amusing. There is no RDS - instead Apple maintains a fanatical focus on the end user experience. This confuses and annoys most geeks since they tend to hold end users in disdain - and yet Apple is successful? How can this be?

LOL - prepare to be frustrated and annoyed at Apple for a long time. They are just getting started at upsetting the status quo. And they are doing it without vapid marketing or "reality distortion fields" and other excuses that suggest blind luck, trickery or that they are otherwise undeserving of their success. Apple is successful because they understand who their real customers are, and they cater to their needs. Obsessively. It's no accident they sweep all other manufacturers in customer satisfaction!

Want a further clue as to how AirPlay will steamroll DNLA (like how the iPad swept out Windows tablets that were a focus of Bill Gates himself for over a decade)? Read this:

Http://stagetwo.com/2010/09/the-real...uct-philosophy

Other manufacturers could be successful like Apple - to me the more interesting question is, why won't they become more customer focused? And as consumers why do we accept schlock from the rest of industry and then belittle Apple for their success at offering an alternative? I can understand if people don't want to use Apple products - fine. But to ridicule Apple for not being like everyone else is just plain stupid.
post #43 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I agree. I see Google TV having the advantage with their deals with TV manufacturers. Unless Apple started manufacturing TVs (well outsourcing their designs to a manufacturer) I think Google will dominate.

I think you will see GoogleTV and AirPlay both.

GoogleTV will have a cluttered UI only a geek will love and AirPlay will "just work".

So while millions of GoogleTVs will no doubt ship, like DNLA in many devices it won't be used.

I'm not even having to go out on much of a limb with this prediction. Its happened before and it will happen again. The only thing different GoogleTV brings to the table is "open". And as Apples sales prove, if you have a quality product people don't mind paying for it.

It's not rocket science if you are truly objective.
post #44 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It would be nice to see Apple release a cheap iOS based NAS server (the "iHub"?). Something that runs locally on the network an acts as an iTunes server, stores all of my families pictures/movies, operates as a shared time machine and also syncs to iDisk for offsite backup.

I think Microsoft should do something similar as well using Win7 Embedded, Media Center, Home Server and Skydrive.

Microsoft has - Windows Home Server. The HP MediaSmarts integrate with Macs perfectly. I picked mine up from NewEgg for $360. Can't beat it for all it does, esp. If you have any windows boxes (or VMs) in the house - it's backup features are killer.
post #45 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

far as popularity goes, MS has won that one with the XBox.

Popularity does not necessarily equate success. Also at $99 the ATV is pretty much an impulse buy - esp. when compared to a $200+ game console that requires an annual sub to play netflix.

While I love my Xbox, it does not compete with an Apple TV in the least.
post #46 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

It's always been my POV about Apple, they're not great inventors, just great Marketers...they make existing ideas so good you have no choice but to buy them

So creating a great ecosystem that is tightly integrated with a strong focus on the end user experience isn't "invention"? It's "just" marketing? Wow - there are a LOT of people who SUCK at marketing.



And no choice to buy? Again, how cynical can you be? How about "they make products that work so well people WANT to buy them instead of settling for the least worst version of a given product on the market"

Good gawd - no wonder there are so many people throwing out inane explanations like "cult", "religion", "reality distortion field", etc. Talk about gross ignorance an missing the blindingly obvious - people enjoy buying things that are well made and work well!

Shazam! You are now enlightened! Focus on the consumer (not other companies or you"partners") and you will be rewarded.

Here this deserves reposting - read this article. It may help, but only if you have an open mind: Http://stagetwo.com/2010/09/the-real...uct-philosophy
post #47 of 61
Ah, the good old days!
Now I can't even enjoy HD shows unless I have my sound hooked through a 5.1 surround sound system. Otherwise I have to hear soundtrack that's %75 of the volume is the music/effects and 25% is voice. Really annoying.
Content is controlled and geared towards the people that provide it nowadays, not the people who consume it. Very sad. And I wasn't specifically point out Apple as the one to do the job, and I agree that one company can't do it (although that's what this forum post was trying to single out), Sony tried in the 90's, Bose was trying to simplify the HTiB, with negligible success too. It's just a sad time to be a consumer, in any market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I wonder. My point was that no one company, no matter how good their ideas may be, can hope corral all of this rangy growth in the consumer tech underbrush. Probably no ten companies can, either.

In the not-so-old days, TV was entirely standardized. Limited content (at most seven channels in any given market), one broadcast method, one receiving and display method. The only big change for about 40 years was black-and-white to color sets, which didn't require changing anything but the display method. That took a few years, but meanwhile the entire system was backwards compatible to people who hadn't bought color. The system didn't provide much choice or variety, but it was simple and comprehensible on the consumer end. So people bought into it if they wanted to watch TV. It was a yes/no proposition. Overwhelmingly, people said yes.

Today, every aspect of what was once a simple system has been complicated by orders of magnitude. Vastly more players in the content side. Multiple broadcast methods. Many display methods. Some if not most of these methods are constantly evolving, or less generously described as half-baked. Consumers are rightfully confused. I think we're way past the point of no return to a simpler system that people actually understand. From here on in, the appeal is going to be to a fragments of the audience. Apple may get part, and Microsoft and others may get part. But nobody is going to beat the world. I don't see where that's possible any longer.

BTW, "holy grail" was the term used by Maynard Um. It should be clear that I don't believe that such a thing exists.
post #48 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

So creating a great ecosystem that is tightly integrated with a strong focus on the end user experience isn't "invention"? It's "just" marketing? Wow - there are a LOT of people who SUCK at marketing.



And no choice to buy? Again, how cynical can you be? How about "they make products that work so well people WANT to buy them instead of settling for the least worst version of a given product on the market"

Good gawd - no wonder there are so many people throwing out inane explanations like "cult", "religion", "reality distortion field", etc. Talk about gross ignorance an missing the blindingly obvious - people enjoy buying things that are well made and work well!

Shazam! You are now enlightened! Focus on the consumer (not other companies or you"partners") and you will be rewarded.

Here this deserves reposting - read this article. It may help, but only if you have an open mind: Http://stagetwo.com/2010/09/the-real...uct-philosophy

Exactly. I think, correct me if I am wrong, but the term RDS originally meant exactly the opposite of what it does today, in relation to Apple. Actually, to most Apple employees and most Apple supporters, it still retains the true, correct meaning...
RDS : Apparently, Steve Jobs was so focussed on perfection and attention to detail that no matter how daunting it appeared to be to achieve his goals and ideas, his teams could still be counted on to pull all the stops out and win through and achieve the "impossible"; that the impossible was, possible such was the reality distortion field projected by Steve Jobs onto his teams. It's all about Execution (with 10 percent invention and innovation thrown in). Apple executes till it drops. Marketing and buzz and loyalty are a by-product of its excellent execution.

Now, that is a far cry from the way the term is bandied about these days by the media and Apple detractors. Suddenly, it is about how Jobs sorcery can dupe us, so that we think we are getting something great, but in actuality it is the same hum-drum mediocrity that the rest of the industry tries to palm off on us. That somehow Jobs tricks us into the accepting some undeserved hype in place of a disappointing reality. That the "marketing" and the coolaid and the charisma of Jobs is so slick and devious that we are all suckers; except, of course, for the cynical geeky Android and Windows lovers, whose perception is so sharp that they can see through all this witchcraft.

No, sorry. What Distorts Reality, is the notion that there is anything of substance to the vaporware claims by the other companies who are trying to halt the profitable sales of popular consumer-driven devices from a company that actually cares about its products and has the highest of customer satisfaction rates. What Distorts Reality is that we should give a monkey's uncle about anything these other companies or their shills or fanboys say. What Strains Credulity is that a long, fancy-sounding list of technical specs a superior product makes! Now, that's marketing!

What Strains Credulity is that one day all these other companies are suddenly going to wake up one morning having magically attained the DNA of Apple overnight; that on the one hand, they will be able to clone Apple's DNA, while, incredibly, simultaneously believing that long years of hard work, planning, laying a foundation, commitment to customers and exemplary execution don't really mean anything afterall; all that was just perception and marketing on Apple's part at the end of the day. Now that Distorts Reality. Unfortunately, no-one has a choice but to project their own distortion of reality... at least until the next product or the next service finally launches, or the iPad Killer is announced, or the next CEO is replaced... always something. Darned Reality, it's a pain in the bum, ennit?

So, why don't we shut up and go away? Because we actually care about our friends and family who have painful computing experiences. I hardy said a word -- but just this week a friend watched me quietly getting on with a few things over a couple of days; he turns to me, and out of the blue says, "I don't know anything whatsoever about them, but can you help me choose an Apple computer?" Actually, I tried to talk him out of it. I said, "well, you know what they say..."; but he was adamant: "No, no, I am sure I want one."
post #49 of 61
Chill man, no need for the verbal abuse here, I speak my mind and respect yours; how's about reciprocating without assault. We're not debating religion here, no need to get huffy. Apple's just an electronics company. If you followed my posts and replies, you'd see I did mention that they make overwhelmingly great products and market them very well. Try getting some context before you post replies. I suck at it too, but I'm evolving. This all may be cynical, but I think you're just reading into posts a little too much.

And don't group me in with the others, respond to them separately please...talk about making broad generalizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

So creating a great ecosystem that is tightly integrated with a strong focus on the end user experience isn't "invention"? It's "just" marketing? Wow - there are a LOT of people who SUCK at marketing.



And no choice to buy? Again, how cynical can you be? How about "they make products that work so well people WANT to buy them instead of settling for the least worst version of a given product on the market"

Good gawd - no wonder there are so many people throwing out inane explanations like "cult", "religion", "reality distortion field", etc. Talk about gross ignorance an missing the blindingly obvious - people enjoy buying things that are well made and work well!

Shazam! You are now enlightened! Focus on the consumer (not other companies or you"partners") and you will be rewarded.

Here this deserves reposting - read this article. It may help, but only if you have an open mind: Http://stagetwo.com/2010/09/the-real...uct-philosophy
post #50 of 61
In this case, and the kinds of numbers and satisfied consumers I've seen, I would equate popularity with success. So the iPod is the most popular MP3 player to date, and overwhelmingly every analyst around has said the iPod is a huge SUCCESS...do you deny this?

You need a subscription to even get Netflix. Plus you have to pay extra for streaming content, and Blu-ray movies as well, on any device, not just Xbox. So what's your point? aTV doesn't play DVD's or Blu-rays you ALREADY own, unless you burn them to iTunes. aTV doesn't play games either, or Hulu.

I agree, the new aTV is very enticing at $99, but WAY more people own and love their Xboxes already. Although I can see a lot of users buying one on top of owning the Xbox. If aTV got app support, it would probably compete more with Xbox, but for now Xbox rules the game to date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Popularity does not necessarily equate success. Also at $99 the ATV is pretty much an impulse buy - esp. when compared to a $200+ game console that requires an annual sub to play netflix.

While I love my Xbox, it does not compete with an Apple TV in the least.
post #51 of 61
Apple has the ability to bring technologies mainstream. DLNA may have existed for quite some time, but it is not mainstream.

Apple, through a combination of ease of use, marketing and brand recognition will make AirPlay mainstream and popularize the idea of sharing media across connected devices. That is what they do. There are very few entirely new concepts to be had these days, so it's only natural that a lot of Apple's offerings are similar in function to others, what Apple improves on is the implementation.

For people saying Apple is all about marketing, they spend much less than many other companies.

Naming your technology DLNA certainly doesn't help popularize it either. It's far easier for someone to understand what AirPlay does.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #52 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

In this case, and the kinds of numbers and satisfied consumers I've seen, I would equate popularity with success. So the iPod is the most popular MP3 player to date, and overwhelmingly every analyst around has said the iPod is a huge SUCCESS...do you deny this?

Raw sales volume is not the sole reason the iPod is successful. Continually harping on marketshare or sales volume is simplistic.

Quote:
You need a subscription to even get Netflix.

Yes, but with the Xbox you have to have *an additional* subscription to Xbox live Gold to have the right to use Netflix. That's a good thing?

Quote:
Plus you have to pay extra for streaming content

Not on my subscription.

Quote:
aTV doesn't play DVD's or Blu-rays you ALREADY own

Wow, the ATV doesn't solve a problem that doesn't exist - its doomed! Look - I don't need an ATV to do any of that. I have a PS3 that plays DVD and BR just fine, and now you can get BR player for well under $200. And there still is no BR for the Xbox. Not that there needs to be since as I just pointed out you can get a whole BR player for less than the HD DVD add-on went for.

And the BR will probably stream Nextflix for free.

Quote:
I agree, the new aTV is very enticing at $99, but WAY more people own and love their Xboxes already.

That's a relief since the Xbox has been out for years and the new ATV isn't even shipping.

Quote:
Although I can see a lot of users buying one on top of owning the Xbox.

Sure, I see even more people than who own Xbox's get ATVs too.

Quote:
If aTV got app support, it would probably compete more with Xbox, but for now Xbox rules the game to date.

ATV doesn't need apps to compete with the Xbox as the serve different audiences - and the ATV audience is many times larger than the Xbox market. And again of course the Xbox "rules" - it's been out for years while the new ATV isn't even shipping!

And I wouldn't be surprised if Apple does eventually have an app strategy on the ATV. They have this annoying habit (to their competitors anyway) of continuing to add more functionality over time.
post #53 of 61
Most of the readers and posters on this site aren't dead-on in the cross-hairs of Apple's target market. So what doesn't make sense to you (or me) or seems like a limitation may, in fact, be something that matters to others. Even if it is the omission of something you or I would covet.

That said, I will by an Apple TV for what it is and even more importantly, what it is not.

And the non-target-market me would also like to see an HDMI pass-through that might allow for an Apple TV to "manage" the video content from my SAT/Cable box in a more seamless fashion. Something that "wraps" the Apple ecosystem around the provider's channels and EPG.
post #54 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I just think people like the idea of being able to store media in a central place.

I doubt the average PC user even knows where their media is stored. I say this because I do Mac and PC support for family and friends. Every time I need to do some work on someone's hard drive and I want to be sure to back up their important data and media, when I ask them where they keep it, they don't even know.

I don't understand why anyone would not want their media centrally located in one place. I back up my media and data daily and have an additional weekly backup as well. It is a much easier task to back up one main hard drive location than several. That's just me though; simplicity is my goal.
post #55 of 61
Dude, you need to chill out. There are way more important things happening in this world to be all upset over, other than trying to prove the world you're right and everyone else is wrong. I guess that's what puts the "No" in your handle, eh?

First of all, I never said that volume/market share was the sole factor in a successful product. Popularity, customer satisfaction and volume are all factors. Since the iPod achieves the highest marks in all these categories, I would say that Popularity does equate to Success in this example, and you failed to read where i said "in this case", as well as giving you another example of this statement being true. Now, if you were to use the example of our current President, then the statement of Popularity = Success, than I would agree to that function being false.

Second, you're the one who stated the Xbox and ATV were competitors, not me, I'm just rebutting your statement.

Third, ATV has been out for years as well, just this current iteration has not shipped. I agree this generation of ATV will be much more popular, given it's price and addition of Netflix, but Xbox will continue to dominate in other categories.

Fourth, I never said the ATV was "Doomed". I was just pointing out that the ATV does have flaws. The biggest flaw of iTunes is that you can't rip Movies that you already own, like you can with music. Now I understand that's not really Apple fault. And I also understand that you can do it with handbrake, but only tech geeks do that, not the general public. And I also understand that no device can do that except DVD/BD players now.

So quit putting words in my mouth already!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Raw sales volume is not the sole reason the iPod is successful. Continually harping on marketshare or sales volume is simplistic.

Wow, the ATV doesn't solve a problem that doesn't exist - its doomed! Look - I don't need an ATV to do any of that. I have a PS3 that plays DVD and BR just fine, and now you can get BR player for well under $200. And there still is no BR for the Xbox. Not that there needs to be since as I just pointed out you can get a whole BR player for less than the HD DVD add-on went for.

ATV doesn't need apps to compete with the Xbox as the serve different audiences - and the ATV audience is many times larger than the Xbox market. And again of course the Xbox "rules" - it's been out for years while the new ATV isn't even shipping!

And I wouldn't be surprised if Apple does eventually have an app strategy on the ATV. They have this annoying habit (to their competitors anyway) of continuing to add more functionality over time.
post #56 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Your seeing the fall out of incompatible DRM.

AirPlay will be huge. With iTunes and iOS devices behind it, there will finally be a mainstream reason to use it. DNLA? Most techies aren't even going to know what that is let alone the average consumer. Why? Other than media center (another niche product) there is no compelling reason to seek it out.

I've owned a Tivo since they were first available on 2000, and media center has matured nicely but I never wanted to scrape content from cable (who along with the networks love to shift program start and stop times to screw DVR users).

I bought Tivo to "watch what I want when I want" and with minimal advertising. Apple is going in the exact direction I want - ad free content, on demand and at a reasonable price.



I find the "reality distortion field" comments amusing. There is no RDS - instead Apple maintains a fanatical focus on the end user experience. This confuses and annoys most geeks since they tend to hold end users in disdain - and yet Apple is successful? How can this be?

LOL - prepare to be frustrated and annoyed at Apple for a long time. They are just getting started at upsetting the status quo. And they are doing it without vapid marketing or "reality distortion fields" and other excuses that suggest blind luck, trickery or that they are otherwise undeserving of their success. Apple is successful because they understand who their real customers are, and they cater to their needs. Obsessively. It's no accident they sweep all other manufacturers in customer satisfaction!

Want a further clue as to how AirPlay will steamroll DNLA (like how the iPad swept out Windows tablets that were a focus of Bill Gates himself for over a decade)? Read this:

Http://stagetwo.com/2010/09/the-real...uct-philosophy

Other manufacturers could be successful like Apple - to me the more interesting question is, why won't they become more customer focused? And as consumers why do we accept schlock from the rest of industry and then belittle Apple for their success at offering an alternative? I can understand if people don't want to use Apple products - fine. But to ridicule Apple for not being like everyone else is just plain stupid.

Great post ... a lot of good points and well said!
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
Reply
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
Reply
post #57 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

The biggest flaw of iTunes is that you can't rip Movies that you already own, like you can with music. Now I understand that's not really Apple fault.


Just wondering how, if it's not Apple's fault .... why is it a fault of iTunes? Shouldn't it be a fault of who ever is responsible for said fault?
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
Reply
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
Reply
post #58 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

I agree with you, it's all in the Marketing. MS Media Center was around well before iTunes ever was. You could put Music, media and Movies on you computer back in the late 1990's, yet it never caught on until Apple made it popular through the iPod and the "idea" of an Ecosystem.

MS and others dream up the ideas that Apple make popular. MS and Others make components, and Apple makes Ideas. It's always been my POV about Apple, they're not great inventors, just great Marketers...they make existing ideas so good you have no choice but to buy them

MS Media center was all marketing and poor implementation. Yes, it was possible to use, but most people didn't want to because of the suckage factor. Generally the first vendor to remove the suckage factor rightly gets credit for creating the market-space, because the market space really didn't exist before then, it was just a goal that everyone else fell short of.
.
Reply
.
Reply
post #59 of 61
Quote:
Apple, Google and Microsoft to face off for 'digital living room'

Who gives a fuck about an Oxford Comma?
post #60 of 61
That was random. Background???
.
Reply
.
Reply
post #61 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Microsoft has - Windows Home Server. The HP MediaSmarts integrate with Macs perfectly. I picked mine up from NewEgg for $360. Can't beat it for all it does, esp. If you have any windows boxes (or VMs) in the house - it's backup features are killer.

I actually run Windows Home Server myself and I also have a test box running Vail as well. WHS is by far and away the best product in its class, however I think it needs tweaking before it can be released on the "mainstream" consumer.

I think Microsoft's entire 'digital living room' product line would need tweaking before it could possibly get any "mainstream" consumer acceptance.

Home Server, Media Center, Windows 7 Embedded, Xbox, Media Center Extender, Zune, Skydrive, Xbox, Xbox Marketplace, WP7, Zune Marketplace etc all need to work together a lot more closely then they do at the moment.

They have all of the pieces to the puzzle, they just need someone to put them together.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Apple, Google and Microsoft to face off for 'digital living room'