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Apple's iPhone 4 won't have FaceTime at launch in the Middle East - Page 2

post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.

Nice observations Tania. Women are not allowed to wear the hijab until they reach puberty or the age when they can start to bear children. One interesting fact that I am sure only 4 or 5 would know here is that the hijab is not Islamic in nature but comes from Christianity. Such an informed crowd we have here.
post #42 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Such an informed crowd we have here.

+1... (the dots are because of the 5 character minimum -___-)
post #43 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Nice observations Tania. Women are not allowed to wear the hijab until they reach puberty or the age when they can start to bear children. One interesting fact that I am sure only 4 or 5 would know here is that the hijab is not Islamic in nature but comes from Christianity. Such an informed crowd we have here.


And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?

Lots of mental gymnastics to explain the abhorant abuse of women in the Middle East. I'm sure the UAE is 'so progressive' these days, but never mind their ridiculous Shari'a courts that continue to exonerate men who abuse, beat and kill women. Other than that... oh and the continued extreme censorship of all media, is a real shining example to the other backward cultures that surround.

It should be pointed out, that every culture on this planet, has had the exact same amount of time as everyone else to progress and advance their civilizations. It's 2010 and if your culture is still trying to grasp the concept that women shouldn't be abused, then crying intolerance is a poor way of explaining/accepting reality. It's about time that Muslim cultures start cleaning up their junk, everyone else has made too great of strides to tolerate this continued barbarism, and the weak minded simps that apologize for it.
post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?

Lots of mental gymnastics to explain the abhorant abuse of women in the Middle East. I'm sure the UAE is 'so progressive' these days, but never mind their ridiculous Shari'a courts that continue to exonerate men who abuse, beat and kill women. Other than that... oh and the continued extreme censorship of all media, is a real shining example to the other backward cultures that surround.

It should be pointed out, that every culture on this planet, has had the exact same amount of time as everyone else to progress and advance their civilizations. It's 2010 and if your culture is still trying to grasp the concept that women shouldn't be abused, then crying intolerance is a poor way of explaining/accepting reality. It's about time that Muslim cultures start cleaning up their junk, everyone else has made too great of strides to tolerate this continued barbarism, and the weak minded simps that apologize for it.

And Christianity as well as Judaism have such a high view of women. If you think this, go read the Bible. The issue is not religion based but cultural. Many of the so-called experts here haven't spent 5 mins in the Middle East but are FoxNews worthy journalist on how things are. This entire discussion went down this path based on the bigotry of a few individuals who are proud to wear it and show it off publicly. My hat is off to them. To the others that tried to explain who cultural differences are contributing factors to the way people behave, I say don't bother. You are only holding people up from getting to their local KKK meetings.

Oh and my culture. I am not sure where you happen to think I am from but you have displayed again that you have no clue.
post #45 of 76
not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind. It's pretty much similar to how Verizon and google preach net openness but shoots down anything that cut into their bottom line.

anyway let's get back to the topic.
post #46 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

And Christianity as well as Judaism have such a high view of women. If you think this, go read the Bible. The issue is not religion based but cultural.

Actually, I think you will find that the common denominator in a lot of patriarchy-based female abuse is the Abrahamic religions, which all stem from the Old Testament. There are certainly other cultures that perpetuate an inferior status of women but nowhere is it as institutional as the mainstream organized religions*. And by far the worst offenders are those adhering to Islam. There is simply no way to ignore this or dance around it semantically, particularly in this day and age.

As some of the more enlightened thinkers of the world have pointed out, if women have to be covered up to prevent the temptation of men, then the problem lies with the men, not the women. It would be better all around if the men were forced to stay at home until they can control themselves.



*For those seeking examples, look here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html
post #47 of 76
One advantage for women who grew up in the Middle East: Watching movies that are "boxed" because they aren't in the proper aspect ratio probably isn't nearly as annoying.

post #48 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind.

I would call that a precision strike - well said.
post #49 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

In Indonesia, where the hijab is more popular than niqabs, it's more about conforming to social norms than adhering to any religious tenets. You see women in hijab going to night clubs and bars. A friend wears it so rude men on the street don't bother her. It's quite effective in that sense really. What bothers me most is that the local imams are trying to enforce this even to really young girls. In rural villages I've seen hijabs on babies which is really quite disturbing.

Same trends in Malaysia... Well not the babies, haven't seen that yet, but I have seen girls as young as 12 wearing hijab*. But you're right, women in hijab at clubs, and weirdly, most of those in cleaning services and food preparation services wear hijab (not due to hygiene reasons).

As you mention, the thing is, so many Malay/Muslim women wear hijab, it's the ones not wearing that stand out and are likely to be stared at. So it increases the desire for more women to wear hijab.

*There are also primary and secondary school girls that go to Muslim religious/Islamic primary/secondary schools that wear hijab and a kind of covering that covers their chest as well... like in the picture at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/wo...pore.html?_r=1
post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by radster360 View Post

Anyhow - When are they going to fix the FaceTime between Wi-Fi and Cell users? I would love to do FaceTime with my kids with their latest iPod Touches while I am on road with my iPhone 4 over my cell Data plan.

As someone said before I've also jailbroken my ip4 and I'm using 3Gunresrictor any of my data using apps I've unrestricted. face time works great over 3G! Me And a buddy do it all the time.
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post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven clerics. Most of these imams/mullahs are uneducated and they are preaching to an even more uneducated mass. Europe too had its period where the religious clergy held sway and impeded progress. Galileo sprung to mind. It's pretty much similar to how Verizon and google preach net openness but shoots down anything that cut into their bottom line.

anyway let's get back to the topic.

It's kinda on topic... FaceTime being banned (as it appears to be) from the Middle East has many theological and political ramifications.
post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluard View Post

Thanks nvidia, these clarifications are very welcome (to me at least).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Thanks Nvidia2008. Really appreciate you setting the bigot crowd straight. I've lived in the Mid East from Egypt (not really Mid East), to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain and many of the comments here show a complete ignorance of the region at best and in some cases out and out racism at worse. Pretty pathetic in my view.

No worries. As I mention I'm still challenged by these things from day to day, and I guess trying to understand. I've lived in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Brisbane, Melbourne, San Francisco, Sydney then back to Kuala Lumpur.

Take today here in Malaysia at a sushi restaurant. It's not classed as "Halal" but "pork free". So there's Muslims in there, some with hijab, eating at the restaurant. "Pork free" is kinda the grey area... Interestingly, there was a sign that said "All dishes are alcohol free except the following" etc. This was a sushi chain restaurant at a major shopping mall, so it's more "trustworthy" than smaller city, suburban or rural restaurants, I suppose.

Also in case anyone's wondering there are tons of Muslims here that go to bars and restaurants and take alcohol, openly. But, they would in almost all cases definitely not eat at a non-halal or non-pork-free restaurant.

A business partner at a kind of corporate product launch/party who was Malay-Muslim said, in an inebriated moment, "Well, you see, the drink, I can just piss it out. The food, it stays in you..."

It's complicated...!

I haven't been to the Middle East except a transit in Bahrain airport so I'm curious about it. There are a lot of MIddle Easterners here though, on holiday/work, and there are an increasing number of Iranian students I seem to come across at the Apple reseller store.

Yeah to be honest from a personal perspective it's all something I'm still trying to understand.
post #53 of 76
KL is great city but a little urban stressing, I use to live in Penang and suited my relax resort like needs ha
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post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

No worries. As I mention I'm still challenged by these things from day to day, and I guess trying to understand. I've lived in Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Brisbane, Melbourne, San Francisco, Sydney then back to Kuala Lumpur.

Take today here in Malaysia at a sushi restaurant. It's not classed as "Halal" but "pork free". So there's Muslims in there, some with hijab, eating at the restaurant. "Pork free" is kinda the grey area... Interestingly, there was a sign that said "All dishes are alcohol free except the following" etc. This was a sushi chain restaurant at a major shopping mall, so it's more "trustworthy" than smaller city, suburban or rural restaurants, I suppose.

Also in case anyone's wondering there are tons of Muslims here that go to bars and restaurants and take alcohol, openly. But, they would in almost all cases definitely not eat at a non-halal or non-pork-free restaurant.

A business partner at a kind of corporate product launch/party who was Malay-Muslim said, in an inebriated moment, "Well, you see, the drink, I can just piss it out. The food, it stays in you..."

It's complicated...!

I haven't been to the Middle East except a transit in Bahrain airport so I'm curious about it. There are a lot of MIddle Easterners here though, on holiday/work, and there are an increasing number of Iranian students I seem to come across at the Apple reseller store.

Yeah to be honest from a personal perspective it's all something I'm still trying to understand.

Cheers nvidia2008,

Again another great post that speaks from experience rather the FoxNews spoon fed tripe. There is some debate in Islamic circles regarding alcohol and other things such as coffee or tea or smoking and if they should all be banned or should they be taken in the context of their present day situations. Either way it is refreshing to see someone that has actual knowledge about a subject than someone who lifts their sheet long enough to see the keyboard and spew the standard KKK racist BS. Thanks to you and Tania for posting insightful info.
post #55 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

not wanting to push this thread further into a theological debate, but the major problem in the Islamic world today lies with power hungry and politically driven cleric.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

I would call that a precision strike - well said.

The clerics are that way because unlike in the case of other societies, there is no separation of church and state. (Turkey is perhaps the exception, but it requires the threat of the military force to maintain the uneasy balance).

Until that happens - and I have no doubt that it will some day, but it'll take a major social revolution - we should not surprised that the clerics are 'politically driven' and 'power hungry'.
post #56 of 76
YOU get a clue. the only stupidity here is an oppressive government that won't allow their citizens to use a harmless technology like FaceTime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Do you know the difference between a burqa and niqab? Get a clue before you open your mouth with stupidity.

and who cares WHAT it's called. the point is still the same.
post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The clerics are that way because unlike in the case of other societies, there is no separation of church and state.

In Indonesia, there is or should I say was a clear separation of church and state. Indonesia has no law requiring women to wear hijab. In fact until the 1997, there was a law which banned hijabs.

However now, Shari'a creeping into into our daily lives is credited to a few but extremely loud fundamentalist. Also, in Asia, there's almost no sense of individualism, it's a communal society. It's highly likely women wore hijab to avoid their neighbors gossiping than an act of sincere spiritual devotion.

Fact is though, a hijab is as a foreign as a comet from space in Indonesian culture. So there are also a large number of Indonesian females who refuse to wear the hijab. It's an issue of cultural clash than theological one. We have all sorts of traditional customs that mullahs in Egypt would consider it very unislamic.

BTW, We also have our own version of Indonesian's ulamas who churn out fatwas, but about 99% of the population do not listen them. In reality, they are considered as a joke. Once there were fatwas banning Indonesians from the use of facebook and yoga. Indonesians did nothing but laughed. I thnk there was one about not permitting women to send text messages with their mobile as it may illicit unnatural behavior. The latest ones that achieved national attention mainly for its idiocy were the fatwas against Oreo cookies (yes, you read that correctly) and cigarettes as they claimed it contained pork.

The ulamas had become a source of entertainment for many of us here - whenever they speak we enjoy a good laugh.
post #58 of 76
In Malaysia the most recent fatwas were against yoga and "tomboys"... Yes, no kidding - "tomboys". Sodomy is illegal in civil court AFAIK but lesbianism is not illegal in civil or sharia courts. BTW Indonesia I think in many ways is more liberal than here. But, as we seem to agree, it's also got to do with peer pressure on what's right or wrong.
post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yet, here we are, mired in two wars over dictators and the like (such as the Taliban) .......

And I believed the USA had been FRIENDS with both those countries for years until it fit their oil needs better to wage war. How ignorant from me to not know the great freedom fighters actually had a moral reason... I call BS on the "dictatorship" reason.

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post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Cheers nvidia2008,

Again another great post that speaks from experience rather the FoxNews spoon fed tripe. There is some debate in Islamic circles regarding alcohol and other things such as coffee or tea or smoking and if they should all be banned or should they be taken in the context of their present day situations. Either way it is refreshing to see someone that has actual knowledge about a subject than someone who lifts their sheet long enough to see the keyboard and spew the standard KKK racist BS. Thanks to you and Tania for posting insightful info.

Unless I'm mistaken, coffee comes from Arabia Felix... Actually, it's even why there is a port called Moka (or probably, the other way round...) So it would be strange for Islam to ban coffee, and make it so that the only place where you can't drink coffee is where it comes from, wouldn't it?

Now again, it is still a debate in Occidental Societies whether to ban alcohol, ban it from advertisement, etc... I've heard that in Texas you need to be over 21 to drink alcohol.

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post #61 of 76
Tania, what can you comment on "khalwat" ( http://www.wao.org.my/news/20030104k...ts_khalwat.htm) situations in Indonesia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

In Indonesia, there is or should I say was a clear separation of church and state. Indonesia has no law requiring women to wear hijab. In fact until the 1997, there was a law which banned hijabs.

However now, Shari'a creeping into into our daily lives is credited to a few but extremely loud fundamentalist. Also, in Asia, there's almost no sense of individualism, it's a communal society. It's highly likely women wore hijab to avoid their neighbors gossiping than an act of sincere spiritual devotion.

Fact is though, a hijab is as a foreign as a comet from space in Indonesian culture. So there are also a large number of Indonesian females who refuse to wear the hijab. It's an issue of cultural clash than theological one. We have all sorts of traditional customs that mullahs in Egypt would consider it very unislamic.

BTW, We also have our own version of Indonesian's ulamas who churn out fatwas, but about 99% of the population do not listen them. In reality, they are considered as a joke. Once there were fatwas banning Indonesians from the use of facebook and yoga. Indonesians did nothing but laughed. I thnk there was one about not permitting women to send text messages with their mobile as it may illicit unnatural behavior. The latest ones that achieved national attention mainly for its idiocy were the fatwas against Oreo cookies (yes, you read that correctly) and cigarettes as they claimed it contained pork.

The ulamas had become a source of entertainment for many of us here - whenever they speak we enjoy a good laugh.
post #62 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Unless I'm mistaken, coffee comes from Arabia Felix... Actually, it's even why there is a port called Moka (or probably, the other way round...) So it would be strange for Islam to ban coffee, and make it so that the only place where you can't drink coffee is where it comes from, wouldn't it?

Now again, it is still a debate in Occidental Societies whether to ban alcohol, ban it from advertisement, etc... I've heard that in Texas you need to be over 21 to drink alcohol.

I believe coffee originated in Ethiopia, but that is irrelevant to any such argument as coffee is grown and harvested around the world. However, even if it was only grown in a country that passed a law on local consumption it still wouldn't be strange. The Native Virginians didn't care for the English consuming tobacco for recreational purposes when their culture dictated it was for ceremonial purposes. We now hve plebrynof laws and taxes in the US on tobacco products. And how do Indians feels (I am referring to India now) about their tamarind being the distinct ingredient in Lee & Perrins delicious worcestershire sauce which is used primary on beef.
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post #63 of 76
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Originally Posted by oxygenhose View Post

And which religion is responsible for stoning women who aren't wearing one?

None. But I do remember a religion that used to burn women who are being accused of witchcraft.

Christianity, Islam, and many other religions are a victim of power and politics. In Europe, the church was used to gain and maintain power at all cost. Right now the same thing is happening to Islam. In the Middle East, Islam is being twisted by the monarchist governments to control the people in order to maintain power. If those governments wanted to live by Islamic law then the first thing they need to do is give up their power and begin elections so people choose who to govern because this is an Islamic law.

For example, FaceTime is not allowed in the UAE because, they claim without any evidence, it is against something in the Islamic teachings. However, the government of UAE don't have problems alcohol, prostitution, and nightclubs in Dubai even if those are clearly and strongly prohibited in Islam.

Another example, in Qatar a citizen cannot buy alcohol but foreigner can!

There are thousands and thousands of men AND women world wide who convert to Islam every year because they read and understand the real Islam from the original sources (Quran and Hadith).
post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

None. But I do remember a religion that used to burn women who are being accused of witchcraft.

Awesome!

Quote:
For example, FaceTime is not allowed in the UAE because, they claim without any evidence, it is against something in the Islamic teachings. However, the government of UAE don't have problems alcohol, prostitution, and nightclubs in Dubai even if those are clearly and strongly prohibited in Islam.

Ah, so the excuse iis religion-based.

Question: Between FaceTime, alcohol, prostitution and nightclubs, which is the UAE least likely to profit from?
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post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Awesome!


Ah, so the excuse iis religion-based.

Question: Between FaceTime, alcohol, prostitution and nightclubs, which is the UAE least likely to profit from?

LOL

There is always an excuse. In Egypt, GPS devices are illegal and multifunction laser printers are only sold with a written authorization from the Ministry of Interior for security reasons. If a phone comes with a GPS feature (like the iPhone) then the GPS feature must be disabled.

I think the FaceTime ban in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt is stupid because there are already apps (like fring) than can do video calls. I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".
post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".

Wait a minute!¡ You're saying that people are using religion to justify an unjust political and/or financial gain?¡ I'm surprised no one has ever thought of this before¡ I just hope they don't figure out that fear works, too¡
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post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Wait a minute!¡ You're saying that people are using religion to justify an unjust political and/or financial gain?¡ I'm surprised no one has ever thought of this before¡ I just hope they don't figure out that fear works, too¡

You know what's funny.. When they stone women for adultery they always stone the man too.. But you never hear about the poor guy LOL
post #68 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I think it is more about money and the religious excuse is just on the surface like always. The telcos want to charge for it but they can't and because the royal family own every business in UAE they can put and lift any laws they want, including "let's ban FaceTime until we can figure a way to charge for it".

Yes, it is about money --- but it doesn't necessarily have to do with royal family owing everything.

France's SFR and Vodafone Germany have blocked VoIP traffic in the past.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/int...-voip-backlash

Governments allows them to do it because it's about local economy and jobs. If you allow skype and GV, then you are basically taking out money from your economy and moving them into the pockets of silicon valley companies --- which doesn't provide any jobs in your country.

The funny thing about this is American consumer groups are dragging out poor immigrants as an example of the necessity of net neutrality --- because VoIP is the only affordable way for them to call their home country. The problem is that there is no such thing as net neutrality anywhere else either. Poor immigrants can't phone home --- not because Verizon/Google destroying net neutrality in the US --- but because their home country block voip traffic.
post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickmyface View Post

I wonder if this is similar to the blackberry issue where certain services (facetime servers) take place overseas and thus they won't allow it.

That's far fetched, isnt it?
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post #70 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by radster360 View Post

Anyhow - When are they going to fix the FaceTime between Wi-Fi and Cell users? I would love to do FaceTime with my kids with their latest iPod Touches while I am on road with my iPhone 4 over my cell Data plan.

Jailbreak your phone and you can do that right now.

Otherwise, wait til at least mid 2011 if not later.
post #71 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Tania, what can you comment on "khalwat" ( http://www.wao.org.my/news/20030104k...ts_khalwat.htm) situations in Indonesia?

You know, what people do with each other is really their own business. as long it does not endanger anyone then it is not the business for the imams, nor the mullahs, and not even the neighbors to mind about.

Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.
post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.

Belief in supernatural agents is a stone age notion, not at all applicable to the modern world.

C.
post #73 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

...Shariah is a stone age law not at all applicable to the modern world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Belief in supernatural agents is a stone age notion, not at all applicable to the modern world.

Well, yeah, Something In A Book != Absolute Truth != Man's Interpretation != Law Forever != Your Spiritual Journey

( != means not equal to, for the non-code-inclined )
post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Originally Posted by nvidia2008
That's probably the main reason, to "officially appear to" discourage such things. Never mind webcams and the Intarwebs.

I am concerned about Muslim conservatism. It's a dicey subject.

Here in Malaysia during the Ramadan (fasting) month certain food outlets (except those in fancy shopping malls) may deny serving you food or drink, during fasting times (sunrise to sunset), if you look ethnic Malay (and therefore are Muslim by default - another dicey subject).

I look ethnic Malay even though I'm half-Chinese half-Indian by ethnicity and consider myself agnostic/"freethinker", so every year I run into this discomfort. Theoretically if you show your nationally-issued identity card you can prove you're not Malay/Muslim and be served. Ironically some Malays/Muslims that don't fast because of medical reasons or choice, just get the food or drink takeaway and eat it privately, away from the public.

There are generally three levels of covered Muslim women. The burqa is the most "hardcore", niqab is the common Middle Eastern one. In Malaysia, Indonesia, and western countries generally the hijab (tight headscarf not showing hair nor ears, but showing the face) is more common. Hijab would most likely be seen quite a bit outside of the Middle East in Asia and western countries. The weird thing is, you can see women (and increasingly teenagers - which I am concerned about them having to cover themselves so young, mainly as an attempt at encouraging chastity) -- you can see women with hijab wearing jeans and tighter fitting tops.

Honestly, then, I'm not looking at their face but their T&A, which detracts from the point of covering the head in the first place.

Well anyways, Malaysia and Indonesia, the only few non-Middle East Muslim-majority countries, will have FaceTime allowed on iPhone 4.

As for the Middle East, I just think sometimes, it's a big cosmic joke of some sort that 3 of the few major world religions all ended up coming from the same place and arose in a short period of time. It was like "God", if you will, had to repeat the message a few times, and I think some of us still don't get "it".

I'm not really sure Nvidia if you understand what is Niqab, borqa or even Hijab for that matter. In Islam "not in Muslim country but generally in Islam", women are required to cover their hair with hijab or veil and of course cover their body, which means long sleeves, long dress and so on. This is what is required from Muslim women to wear where ever she is. Now, borqa or Niqb is not required by Islam at all, and if you see a women wearing hijab and another one wearing borqa or niqab, you can't say: Ooh, that one with the niqab is more religious then the other one with Hijab!! NO!! and why you can't say that?? because as i explained to you, these stuff like borqa or niqab are not a Muslim women wear. It's the culture of Arabian Gulf Region, Like UAE, Qatar, Oman, Iran etc...
Thats why Muslim Women in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria and many other Muslim countries 99.5% will wear only hijab and not borqa or niqab. When the religion of Islam came to light 1400 years ago, the only women who wore the Niqab were the wives of the Prophet Mohamed PBUH, and they were only the women who were required to wear such a dress and if you knew, you would've found it in Quran.
Thats why in Indonesia where you hail from and in the western world, USA and Canada, you will find convert women 99.5% wearing hijab and not niqab or borqa because they looked really in to Islam and decided to become a Muslim, hence, they are wearing the right dress. But if you happen to see a convert in the western world wearing niqab or borqa, then be 100% sure, that people who taught her or helped her understand Islam and therefor became a Muslim, are or have an eastern back ground because as many of you think that Islam is an Eastern Religion, but it's not. It's a religion for every body, if your whit, black, brown, yellow, red!
Back to iPhone
I'm pretty sure that religion has absolutely nothing to do with not launching FaceTime feature, because for example here in the UAE, we are having mobile video calls on regular cell phones beside, they can't stop a feature on the iPhone just because it doesn't fit their point of religious view. We can chat and have video calls using all kind of messengers or have a video call as i said. FaceTime is just a fancy way of saying a video call
I'm sure it will work on in few months.
post #75 of 76
In a Taxi... The translation is "Please be polite, refrain from indecent behaviour in a taxi". I think that includes just kissing and hugging, depending on one's point of view...

post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by clouds View Post

I'm not really sure Nvidia if you understand what is Niqab, borqa or even Hijab for that matter. In Islam "not in Muslim country but generally in Islam", women are required to cover their hair with hijab or veil and of course cover their body, which means long sleeves, long dress and so on. This is what is required from Muslim women to wear where ever she is. Now, borqa or Niqb is not required by Islam at all, and if you see a women wearing hijab and another one wearing borqa or niqab, you can't say: Ooh, that one with the niqab is more religious then the other one with Hijab!! NO!! and why you can't say that?? because as i explained to you, these stuff like borqa or niqab are not a Muslim women wear. It's the culture of Arabian Gulf Region, Like UAE, Qatar, Oman, Iran etc...
Thats why Muslim Women in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Algeria and many other Muslim countries 99.5% will wear only hijab and not borqa or niqab. When the religion of Islam came to light 1400 years ago, the only women who wore the Niqab were the wives of the Prophet Mohamed PBUH, and they were only the women who were required to wear such a dress and if you knew, you would've found it in Quran.
Thats why in Indonesia where you hail from and in the western world, USA and Canada, you will find convert women 99.5% wearing hijab and not niqab or borqa because they looked really in to Islam and decided to become a Muslim, hence, they are wearing the right dress. But if you happen to see a convert in the western world wearing niqab or borqa, then be 100% sure, that people who taught her or helped her understand Islam and therefor became a Muslim, are or have an eastern back ground because as many of you think that Islam is an Eastern Religion, but it's not. It's a religion for every body, if your whit, black, brown, yellow, red!
Back to iPhone
I'm pretty sure that religion has absolutely nothing to do with not launching FaceTime feature, because for example here in the UAE, we are having mobile video calls on regular cell phones beside, they can't stop a feature on the iPhone just because it doesn't fit their point of religious view. We can chat and have video calls using all kind of messengers or have a video call as i said. FaceTime is just a fancy way of saying a video call
I'm sure it will work on in few months.

I think I understand better now.

Currently though in Malaysia, if you are ethnic Malay (which is the majority of the population) you are Muslim by default, with no say in the matter. This is one of the challenges of Islam in Malaysia, the matter of choice. If I marry a Malay woman, for most purposes I have to become a Muslim myself and then become subject to Syariah law. If I don't marry the Malay woman then living together is considered Khalwat in Syariah law, and then I don't know what exactly happens here when that happpens. It is possible to marry a Malay and not have to convert to Islam but that's a very touchy subject, like most things here related to race and religion, everyone is very afraid to confront the issues and have a real civilised debate.

As you mention, hijab is the usual dressing, but I am curious as to what some women here wear, which is not fully a niqab, but instead of just the head covering there is an extra "layer" over their chest and arms... Eg. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/wo...pore.html?_r=1 ...Is this found in non-Gulf majority-Muslim countries? Curious...
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