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Government is not the solution to our problem, it IS the problem - Page 9

post #321 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Not in the Classical sense. But we've been through this.

Indubitably.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #322 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Even if a person is stupid, he doesn't deserve to die. That's not very Christian, Noah.

You and Tonton need to check yourselves a bit. I am not saying the same thing. The guy does not deserve to die. But it is not the governments job to save him either.

Remember the last line:

Ron goes on to state that the person would be taken care of by his community, not by the government.

I agree with Ron. This is not the federal governments responsibility.

Gee, but you sure go out of your way to make a person be seen in the poorest light possible don't you?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #323 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Indubitably.

You see what you want to see.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #324 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

You and Tonton need to check yourselves a bit. I am not saying the same thing. The guy does not deserve to die. But it is not the governments job to save him either.

Remember the last line:

Ron goes on to state that the person would be taken care of by his community, not by the government.

I agree with Ron. This is not the federal governments responsibility.

Gee, but you sure go out of your way to make a person be seen in the poorest light possible don't you?

The government is part of the community. In fact, it is the representation of said community. When private charity and Ron Paul's limited view of community fails, what then? Let him die? That's the question you 'conservatives' fail to answer again and again.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #325 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It's easy to make shit up when you don't follow the discussion. Start with the graph above. jazzguru was bemoaning the conglomeration of banks which I pointed out was a product of deregulation. Are you denying that as well?

Yea let's pretend the government didn't force mergers with the recent financial crisis which was aided in fact by GSEs mucking the market.
post #326 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yea let's pretend the government didn't force mergers with the recent financial crisis which was aided in fact by GSEs mucking the market.

Yeah, the government "forced" mergers. Fecking genius.

In order to sound coherent in your denial that the problem was deregulation, you have to make stupid shit up. But it just makes you sound like you're making stupid shit up. And we wonder why there's a financial crisis. Oh, my.
post #327 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Why? Any reason? This is an extremely broad, and unsupported assertion. And I've already shown how buying out competitors is not the only way to kill them.

Well if the monopoly you're complaining about isn't actually abusing its monopoly position, there isn't a problem to correct. However, in my experience (Quark, Microsoft, Postal Service, Government-run schools, Credit Card oligopolies, Big Cable etc.) human nature and greed sets in once there is no external competition and prices tend to explode while service tanks.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #328 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, the government "forced" mergers. Fecking genius.

In order to sound coherent in your denial that the problem was deregulation, you have to make stupid shit up. But it just makes you sound like you're making stupid shit up. And we wonder why there's a financial crisis. Oh, my.

Wow you really are that ignorant aren't you. Do just a little reading before you type.
post #329 of 573
What Job 'Training' Teaches? Bad Work Habits

A 1969 government study warned that teens in federal jobs programs 'regressed in their conception of what should reasonably be required in return for wages paid.'
post #330 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, the government "forced" mergers. Fecking genius.

In order to sound coherent in your denial that the problem was deregulation, you have to make stupid shit up. But it just makes you sound like you're making stupid shit up. And we wonder why there's a financial crisis. Oh, my.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/busin...ing_01-23.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042302461.html
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #331 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Wow you really are that ignorant aren't you. Do just a little reading before you type.

Dude, at least post a link if you are going to be so rude about it.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #332 of 573

Quote:
JOHN THAIN, CEO, Merrill Lynch: The fact that we can put this transaction together basically in 48 hours I think is a great statement on the strengths of both of our teams, but also the great strategic fit which, from the instant we talked, was very, very clear that this transaction made a lot of sense.

KENNETH LEWIS, CEO, Bank of America: The combined company is a much stronger entity and will survive most anything as a result of the combination.

Yeah, that sounds like the merger was "forced".

Where in that story is there any indication that there were "forced" mergers anywhere, except in the highly editorialized title? I suggest you do a little reading.

The government offered assistance to facilitate the merger. They said if the merger didn't happen, the assistance wouldn't be offered. That's not the same thing as "forcing" the merger. The facts of the case have been twisted by people who didn't understand it.
post #333 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, that sounds like the merger was "forced".

Where in that story is there any indication that there were "forced" mergers anywhere, except in the highly editorialized title? I suggest you do a little reading.

The government offered assistance to facilitate the merger. They said if the merger didn't happen, the assistance wouldn't be offered. That's not the same thing as "forcing" the merger. The facts of the case have been twisted by people who didn't understand it.

Keep reading...

Quote:
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and former Treasury secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. threatened to remove the management and board of Bank of America if it backed out of its deal to acquire ailing investment house Merrill Lynch late last year, according to documents released yesterday by New York Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #334 of 573
Yeah, that actually does sounds like a 'forced' merger.

By the way Tonton, when did you start taking the public word of banking CEOs at face value?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #335 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Keep reading...

I have.

Quote:
"The Board Minutes further state that the "Board clarify[ied] that is [sic] was not persuaded or influenced by the statement by the federal regulators that the Board and management would be removed by the federal regulators if the Corporation were to exercise the MAC clause and failed to complete the acquisition of Merrill Lynch."

I do think that the pressure to merge was administered poorly, but I still do not see this as a "forced" merger.

I also think that the merger should not have gone through, and that Merrill should have been left to languish in their muck.

And if B of A is now showing signs of failure, I think they should be left to languish in theirs.

I do not believe in corporate bailouts.

But, with that in mind, and looking at the graph above, how many of the mergers represented there were influenced by government policy rather than economic environment? Can you show another example besides Merrill?

I still strongly believe that the main reason for the conglomeration, and the main reason for deterioration of our financial systems as a whole, has been deregulation. You haven't shown otherwise.

And the only reason Merrill and others were facing such problems in the first place was because of their actions made possible only by deregulation, and sometimes by fraud, aided by deregulation, and regulators "looking the other way". We saw it with Enron. We saw it with Lehman. We saw it with AIG. We saw it with Merrill Lynch.

Again, getting back to the topic of the thread, it's not government that's the problem, it's the death of business ethics in America.
post #336 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Dude, at least post a link if you are going to be so rude about it.

http://tinyurl.com/3m83dz8
post #337 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

By the way Tonton, when did you start taking the public word of banking CEOs at face value?

Fair point,
post #338 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

http://tinyurl.com/3m83dz8

Thanks so much for the link. It proved my point. There was a little about the Merrill deal, nothing about any other questionable deal in the US, but I found this particularly interesting.

Quote:
Deregulation has significantly changed how and where banks do business. The relaxation of restrictions on banks' securities activities was a move toward expanded powers, blurring the traditional distinction with investment banking. And the elimination of branching restrictions created vast geographic expansion possibilities.

Removal of branching restrictions alone would be expected to spur consolidation in the U.S. banking industry. Given California's long-standing permission of branching within its borders, examination of the banking industry in California provides a way to project the effect of eliminating branching restrictions on the U.S. banking industry as a whole. If the structure of the U.S. banking industry were to mimic California's, continued consolidation would eventually result in about 3,000 banking organizations (Chart 1), with a handful of gargantuan superbanks competing simultaneously with many smaller community banks. In fact, the result might be analogous to retailing, in which we have giant outlet stores and department stores on the one hand and specialized, single-location boutiques on the other, all surviving in the marketplace.
post #339 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I have.

I do think that the pressure to merge was administered poorly, but I still do not see this as a "forced" merger.

I also think that the merger should not have gone through, and that Merrill should have been left to languish in their muck.

And if B of A is now showing signs of failure, I think they should be left to languish in theirs.

I do not believe in corporate bailouts.

But, with that in mind, and looking at the graph above, how many of the mergers represented there were influenced by government policy rather than economic environment? Can you show another example besides Merrill?

I still strongly believe that the main reason for the conglomeration, and the main reason for deterioration of our financial systems as a whole, has been deregulation. You haven't shown otherwise.

And the only reason Merrill and others were facing such problems in the first place was because of their actions made possible only by deregulation, and sometimes by fraud, aided by deregulation, and regulators "looking the other way". We saw it with Enron. We saw it with Lehman. We saw it with AIG. We saw it with Merrill Lynch.

Again, getting back to the topic of the thread, it's not government that's the problem, it's the death of business ethics in America.

You said there were no forced mergers and even went so far as to derisively respond to FJ about it. There is at the very least undue pressure to ensure a merger went through and at the most outright arm twisting. Merge or you will be removed and replaced with someone who will sounds like a forced merger to me.

I am not arguing the point of deregulation, you have this tendency with any discussion you have with me to put other motives on what I am posting. I am not sure why this is the case, but it is not warranted here, just as it has not been warranted in most if not all other cases.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #340 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Thanks so much for the link. It proved my point. There was a little about the Merrill deal, nothing about any other questionable deal in the US, but I found this particularly interesting.

How does it prove your point that there were no forced mergers? It may have provided evidence that could back up your claim about deregulation issues, but it does not prove your point with regards to forced mergers.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #341 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

How does it prove your point that there were no forced mergers? It may have provided evidence that could back up your claim about deregulation issues, but it does not prove your point with regards to forced mergers.

Was it my point that there were no forced mergers? That was a side track from the issue being discussed. You didn't miss my main point, did you? The one I'm referring to when I said it proved my point?

There was arguably one forced merger if the Merill deal is considered to be a forced merger. I've asked for another example to show that the plural was used in proper context.

But that's still not my point.

My point is, and always has been, that the cause of the conglomeration of the banking industry was deregulation.
post #342 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

How does it prove your point that there were no forced mergers? It may have provided evidence that could back up your claim about deregulation issues, but it does not prove your point with regards to forced mergers.

He's blind to any information that doesn't support his conclusion.
post #343 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

He's blind to any information that doesn't support his conclusion.

Yeah, that's exactly what this discussion has shown.

Get a clue.
post #344 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Was it my point that there were no forced mergers? That was a side track from the issue being discussed. You didn't miss my main point, did you? The one I'm referring to when I said it proved my point?

There was arguably one forced merger if the Merill deal is considered to be a forced merger. I've asked for another example to show that the plural was used in proper context.

But that's still not my point.

My point is, and always has been, that the cause of the conglomeration of the banking industry was deregulation.

Got it, so you are dropping back to the previous point after being found wrong when you asserted that there were no forced mergers and were completely rude and condescending about it. Also you are now going to nitpick about the use of plural when there might have been only one. I understand completely. \
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #345 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Got it, so you are dropping back to the previous point after being found wrong when you asserted that there were no forced mergers and were completely rude and condescending about it. Also you are now going to nitpick about the use of plural when there might have been only one. I understand completely. \

You're trying to derail the discussion.

Perhaps you can answer this. Does the Merrill Lynch deal show that deregulation is not the cause of conglomeration in the banking industry?

Keep in mind that without the deregulation in the first place, the Merrill deal would not have been legally possible.
post #346 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You're trying to derail the discussion.

Perhaps you can answer this. Does the Merrill Lynch deal show that deregulation is not the cause of conglomeration in the banking industry?

Keep in mind that without the deregulation in the first place, the Merrill deal would not have been legally possible.

I'm trying to derail.... Ok, I guess that was me who posted:

Quote:
Yeah, the government "forced" mergers. Fecking genius.

In order to sound coherent in your denial that the problem was deregulation, you have to make stupid shit up. But it just makes you sound like you're making stupid shit up. And we wonder why there's a financial crisis. Oh, my.

I cringed at his equally condescending answer and then actually posted some facts. And I am the one who is derailing the thread.

Have fun with that assertion.

As for the rest of your assertion, I don't have any beef with you asking the question, nor do I have enough information to give you an answer on it. Hence the reason why I have not spoken on it. I just have a problem with knee jerk, asinine answers lately.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #347 of 573
Obama using $500 million in "stimulus" money to pay off a donor. Company goes out of business and money is missing.

Solar panel firm Solyndra to cease operations
post #348 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Obama using $500 million in "stimulus" money to pay off a donor. Company goes out of business and money is missing.

Solar panel firm Solyndra to cease operations

Why do you assert that the money is missing? It seems they never received the actual loan, at least not yet. Are they allowed to take the loan now to pay off creditors?

And how does this directly involve Obama?

I'm not saying it doesn't, and I'm not saying they are not getting the loan, but I just don't see that in the article you posted. Do you have more information to share?
post #349 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Why do you assert that the money is missing? It seems they never received the actual loan, at least not yet. Are they allowed to take the loan now to pay off creditors?

And how does this directly involve Obama?

I'm not saying it doesn't, and I'm not saying they are not getting the loan, but I just don't see that in the article you posted. Do you have more information to share?

Oh jeez. Just read a little bit. Have some basis of current events. Educated yourself just a tiny bit. Don't be such an intentionally blind partisan.
post #350 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Oh jeez. Just read a little bit. Have some basis of current events. Educated yourself just a tiny bit. Don't be such an intentionally blind partisan.

FFS, don't be an ass. Just provide the link that tells the whole story. Kthnks, bye.

This isn't a gameshow called 'the weakest link'.
post #351 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

FFS, don't be an ass. Just provide the link that tells the whole story. Kthnks, bye.

This isn't a gameshow called 'the weakest link'.

It's also funny how Floorjack just called you blindly partisan. Floorjack. FLOORJACK.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #352 of 573
FloorJack, if the application and all of the research for the loan guarantee for Solyndra was administered by the Bush Administration, then how is this linked to Obama? You're making it sound like Obama was doing Solyndra a political favor, when in actuality, 99% of the deal was done under Bush.
post #353 of 573
Thread Starter 
“Henry Ford used to pay his workers five dollars a day [highest in the world at that time], that was an ounce and a quarter of gold, which at today’s exchange rate, is $2,500 a week. So Ford’s workers were making $2,500 a week, they were paying no federal income taxes and no payroll taxes, there was no minimum wage and there were no unions. We paid the highest wages in the world, yet we produced the highest quality, least expensive products. How is that possible? It’s possible because we had the smallest government.” — Peter Schiff, during testimony before congressional jobs committee

Part 1

Part 2

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #354 of 573
Thread Starter 
Billions in Unemployment Benefits Paid in Error

Quote:
Nearly $19 billion in state unemployment benefits were paid in error during the three years that ended in June, new Labor Department data show.



The amount represents more than 10% of the $180 billion in jobless benefits paid nationwide during the period. The tally covers state programs, which offer benefits for up to 26 weeks, from July 2008 to June 2011. Layers of federal programs that help provide benefits for up to 99 weeks weren’t included.

The figures were released Wednesday as the Obama administration promotes its bid to reduce waste at federal agencies. The federal government foots the bill for administering the programs, and states are supposed to pay for the benefits. Many states exhausted their unemployment insurance trust funds during the long recession and slow recovery, prompting them to borrow from the federal government to replenish their funds.

Improper payments most often occur when recipients claim benefits even though they have returned to work; employers or their administrators don’t submit timely or accurate information about worker separations; or recipients don’t correctly register with a state’s employment-service organization.

The Labor Department launched a plan to crack down on the improper payments, targeting Virginia, Indiana, Colorado, Washington, Louisiana and Arizona in particular for their high error rates. Those states will undergo additional monitoring and technical assistance until their error rates dip below 10% and remain there for at least six months, according to the Labor Department.

“The Unemployment Insurance system is a unique partnership between the federal government and the states. States bear the responsibility of operating an efficient and effective benefits program, but as partners the federal government must be able to hold them accountable for doing so,” Labor Secretary Hilda Solis said in a release.

Indiana had the highest error rate, with improper payments accounting for more than 43% of the total amount paid. But Mark Everson, commissioner of the Indiana Department of Workforce Development, said the differences in error rates stem from variations in state programs.

“To characterize it as waste, fraud and abuse is just manipulative,” Mr. Everson said. “There’s no way in the world you could cut the 43% of people off.”

Mr. Everson pointed out that in Indiana, benefit recipients are required to list three work searches. If a recipient fills out only two of the three searches correctly, there are cases when the recipient can still receive benefits. But that counts as an error.

The Labor Department noted, “it may be misleading to compare one state’s payment accuracy rates with another state’s rates… States with stringent or complex provisions tend to have higher improper payment rates than those with simpler, more straightforward provisions.”

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #355 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The government is part of the community.

No, it's not. It shouldn't be.

Quote:
In fact, it is the representation of said community.

That's true, though irrelevant.

Quote:
When private charity and Ron Paul's limited view of community fails, what then? Let him die? That's the question you 'conservatives' fail to answer again and again.

Ha. The private charity and community aren't given a chance to fail. In fact, they are often prevented from doing anything to interfere with Mr. Big Government's "job." Secondly, when does charity fail? It doesn't. The American people are some of the most generous in the world. We donated 2 billion dollars after 9/11. There would be more than enough charity money and help from others without the government taxing the s*** out of everyone so they have nothing left to give.

Again, I'm not even a Paul supporter. But he's right here.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #356 of 573
Really? Not given a chance to fail? Plenty of people have not had health insurance for years and I don't see private charity stepping up and closing the gap.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #357 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Really? Not given a chance to fail? Plenty of people have not had health insurance for years and I don't see private charity stepping up and closing the gap.

Even if people are not turned away for accidents or serious illness, there are plenty of people in the US who commit suicide because of medical related bankruptcy or untreated non-emergency medical conditions. There are plenty of people on life support whose life support is cut because no one is paying the bills. This doesn't happen in civilized countries.
post #358 of 573
Loan Was Solyndra's Undoing

Quote:
The new factory built with Department of Energy funds foisted fixed costs on a company already struggling through an industry shake-out, they say. What's more, the debt paradoxically made raising more money difficult. Once the government demanded priority in the event of failure, private investors were less likely to prop up the company.

One Solyndra investor said that, in retrospect, "the worst thing that happened to Solyndra was the loan."
post #359 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Loan Was Solyndra's Undoing

So the government shouldn't have offered the loan without Solyndra asking for it. Oh, wait. And FJ, there's a Solyndra thread now.
post #360 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So the government shouldn't have offered the loan without Solyndra asking for it. Oh, wait. And FJ, there's a Solyndra thread now.

I think that the message was, the government loan was not good for the company and likely contributed overall to their demise through multiple unintended consequences.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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