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Government is not the solution to our problem, it IS the problem - Page 3

post #81 of 573
Jesus said some pretty awesome stuff, allegedly. It's the whole divinity and rest of the awful Bible that I take issue with. I don't think John Galt did the Christian thing at all. A free energy machine? Solve all the world's energy problems? That's just too much to hoard. The Jesus thing to do would be to share it with the world and bring about a new age of peace. The John Galt thing was to cry like a baby and convince others to go into hiding while the rest of the world dies horrible deaths. Galt's worldview and actions are abhorrent. It's disgusting.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #82 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Jesus said some pretty awesome stuff, allegedly.

Well, if it is only allegedly, don't you think you ought to confirm it before appealing to it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I don't think John Galt did the Christian thing at all. A free energy machine? Solve all the world's energy problems? That's just too much to hoard. The Jesus thing to do would be to share it with the world and bring about a new age of peace.

Perhaps. Perhaps it would have brought about a new era of peace or perhaps people would have found other things to fight about, other reasons to steal and coerce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Galt's worldview and actions are abhorrent. It's disgusting.

Possibly, yes. But do you find anything at all abhorrent or disgusting about using theft and coercion to achieve one's goals?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #83 of 573
First, I disagree wholeheartedly that there was any theft or coercion going on. However...even if we assume what you say is correct...

GENOCIDE >> THEFT & COERCION

This isn't a case of two wrongs making a right, in your view. This is a second, monumental, INSANELY disproportionate wrong somehow making a right.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #84 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

First, I disagree wholeheartedly that there was any theft or coercion going on.

Really?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

However...even if we assume what you say is correct...

GENOCIDE >> THEFT & COERCION

Agreed. However, in my view, you have watered down the definition of "genocide" to fit your argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This isn't a case of two wrongs making a right, in your view. This is a second, monumental, INSANELY disproportionate wrong somehow making a right.

Agreed. But I don't agree with your claim that what that character did was the same thing as genocide. You have watered down the definition of "genocide" (or dramatized the magnitude of his actions) to fit your argument.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #85 of 573
The death of 90% of society? Better? MASS MURDER ON A SCALE THIS WORLD HAS NEVER BEFORE WITNESSED? BETTER?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #86 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The death of 90% of society? Better? MASS MURDER ON A SCALE THIS WORLD HAS NEVER BEFORE WITNESSED? BETTER?

See my comments above about your overly dramatic characterization of these events.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #87 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Ah, the ignorant, evasive answer. I'll ask again. In Atlas Shrugged, what do you think brought about the collapse of society?

You brought this ridicule on yourself BR. You made an outrageous accusation, and invited a flippant answer. The best any troll like you can expect from such a fantastic display of ignorance is to be ignored.

I suggest you look up the word I thoughtfully linked above. You will find your picture next to the definition. I also suggest you research "genocide" while you're at it.

Quote:
... in my view, you have watered down the definition of "genocide" to fit your argument.

No. Not "watered down". It's a repugnant misappropriation of an irrefutably specific act. By equating this character's iron-willed refusal to accede to the demands of a corrupt society - having withstood theft, coercion, and finally torture - to genocide is an affront to the millions upon millions of real human beings brutally slaughtered by socialist dictators throughout the history of mankind.

Ghandi, Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King... "genocidal maniacs" all, according to your reasoning. If one can call it that.

It's not funny. It's sick.
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post #88 of 573
Thread Starter 
Hacker infiltration ends D.C. online voting trial

Quote:
Last week, the D.C. Board of Elections and Ethics opened a new Internet-based voting system for a weeklong test period, inviting computer experts from all corners to prod its vulnerabilities in the spirit of "give it your best shot." Well, the hackers gave it their best shot -- and midday Friday, the trial period was suspended, with the board citing "usability issues brought to our attention."

Here's one of those issues: After casting a vote, according to test observers, the Web site played "Hail to the Victors" -- the University of Michigan fight song.

I can't wait to see how they manage our healthcare.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #89 of 573
Thread Starter 
Panel: Gov't thwarted worst-case scenario on spill

Quote:
WASHINGTON – The White House blocked efforts by federal scientists to tell the public just how bad the Gulf oil spill could have been.

That finding comes from a panel appointed by President Barack Obama to investigate the worst offshore oil spill in history.

In documents released Wednesday, the national oil spill commission reveals that in late April or early May the White House budget office denied a request from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to make public the worst-case discharge from the blown-out well.

BP estimated the worse scenario to be a leak of 2.5 million gallons per day. The government, meanwhile, was telling the public the well was releasing 210,000 gallons per day - a figure that later grew closer to BP's figure.

There is nothing more threatening to big government than an informed public.

Spill Panel Faults Obama Response Effort

Quote:
"Despite the acknowledged inaccuracies of the [government] scientist's estimate and despite the existence of other and potentially better methodologies for visually assessing flow rate…5,000 bbls/day was to remain the government's official flow-rate estimate for a full month until May 27, 2010," the staff paper says.

The paper adds that it is "possible that inaccurate flow-rate figures may have hindered the subsea efforts to stop and to contain the flow of oil at the wellhead."

A White House spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #90 of 573
Quote:

Perhaps the Philippine government ought to send representatives to the US to ensure our elections are conducted legally.
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post #91 of 573
Thread Starter 
89,000 stimulus checks of $250 (that's $22,250,000 for those of you counting at home) were sent to dead or incarcerated people. Less than half of it was returned.

I guess the Dems were just trying to reward their voting base.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #92 of 573
Thread Starter 
By way of anecdote, I just had a conversation with a coworker who I had chatted with a few months back about health insurance.

Back then I had told her about my experience at my previous employer - where it was considerably cheaper to put me and my wife on the employer's health plan and take out a separate, individual policy for my 3 year old son.

She said she would relay that information along to her daughter, who was looking at getting insurance for her child.

Fast forward to today. My coworker informed me that her daughter is not able to get an individual policy for her child. Insurance providers no longer offer them. Rather than comply with regulations set forth in Obamacare, Insurers have chosen to discontinue the product altogether.

Now my coworker's daughter has to put her child on the employer's plan, which is much more expensive.

That's one less option for the American people when it comes to their healthcare. One more increase in out of pocket costs for working Americans. And it will be used by the statists as one more reason to give the government more control over the system in order to "fix the problem". A problem created by government in the first place.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #93 of 573
So you blame the government. I would blame the GREEDY ASS INSURANCE COMPANIES.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #94 of 573
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So you blame the government. I would blame the GREEDY ASS INSURANCE COMPANIES.

Of course you would.

My coworker, however, understands that had Obamacare not passed, her daughter would still be able to get an inexpensive individual policy for her child.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #95 of 573
That's the myopic view. Her real rage should be directed toward the insurance companies who once again are revealed to NOT GIVE TWO FLYING FUCKS about anything other than their bottom lines. Are you telling me that the insurance companies had NO CHOICE but to dodge the new law by shutting down certain plans? That the insurance companies were CORRECT in being the ass bastards they are?

You make the link as follows...

Healthcare reform passes--->Insurance companies do shitty things---->HEALTHCARE REFORM'S FAULT DERP DERP!

Put the blame on the SHITTY ACTS.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #96 of 573
Thread Starter 
The insurance companies cared about providing a needed service before the government intervened.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #97 of 573
Your misplaced blame here is very telling. You hate the government so much that you'll excuse the AWFUL acts of these insurance companies because, in doing so, it fits your narrative of the world.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #98 of 573
Thread Starter 
Your misplaced blame here is very telling. You hate the free market so much that you'll excuse the AWFUL acts of government because, in doing so, it fits your narrative of the world.

We seem to be at an impasse.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #99 of 573
Thread Starter 
Board of Elections gaffe may nullify New York soldiers' overseas absentee ballots

Quote:
Sen. Charles Schumer blasted Board of Elections officials Monday for blowing a deadline for sending ballots to troops overseas - putting their chance to vote at risk.

"Our troops sacrifice their lives to protect our freedoms. They should never, ever be denied the right to vote," Schumer said.

There are approximately 50,000 New York City residents serving overseas - and 320,000 statewide.

Elections officials were originally supposed to ship the ballots to troops by Sept. 17. Because New York primaries were held Sept. 14, the federal government granted local officials an extension until Oct. 1.

But the state Board of Elections last week informed the Department of Defense that officials in New York City, Westchester, Putnam, Erie and Niagara Counties had failed to send the ballots by the Oct. 1 deadline.

The federal MOVE Act, a bill Schumer sponsored that passed in 2009, requires states to mail ballots to troops 45 days before the general election, scheduled this year for Nov. 2.

Absentee votes are counted until 13 days after election day.

Schumer said that sending ballots via regular mail can take up to 13 days, so he urged election officials to send them using overnight delivery to ensure that military votes are counted.

"Put these ballots on the next plane to Afghanistan," Schumer said. "There is absolutely no excuse for failing to get this done."

The state board of elections did not immediately return a call. A spokeswoman for the city Board of Elections had no immediate comment.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #100 of 573
Thread Starter 
Gallup: 46 Percent Say U.S. Government 'Poses Immediate Threat to the Rights and Freedoms' of U.S. Citizens

Quote:
The percentage of Americans who think the federal government poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens has increased significantly over the last seven years, rising from 30 percent to 46 percent, according to a Gallup poll conducted Sept. 13-16 and released today.

Only 51 percent of Americans now say they do not think the federal government poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens.

Similarly, the percentage of Americans who think the federal government has too much power has also significantly increased, from 39 percent in 2002 to 59 percent today.

In its Sept. 13-16 polling, Gallup asked the 46 percent of respondents who said that they think the federal government poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of Americans in what ways they think the government is posing this threat. The top four answers were that the government has too many laws and is too big in general, that it is too involved in peoples private lives, that it is threatening freedom of speech, and that the health-care law signed by President Barack Obama is a threat.

Since 2003, Gallup has periodically asked adult Americans this question: Do you think the federal government poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens, or not?

When Gallup first asked the question in September 2003, 30 percent said, yes, they did think the federal government posed an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens and 68 percent said, no, it did not. In September 2004, 35 percent said, yes, and 63 percent said, no. In September 2005, 37 percent said, yes, and 62 percent said, no. And in September 2006, 44 percent said, yes, and 54 percent said, no.

This September, 46 percent said, yes, they think the federal government poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens. Only 51 percent said, no.

Gallup asked the 46 percent who said yes, this follow-up question: In what ways do you see the government posing an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of its citizens? The answers broke down as follows:

Answer | Percentage
Too many laws/Govt too big in general | 18%
Too much involvement in people's private lives | 17%
Taking away freedom of speech/violating First Amendment | 15%
Healthcare law | 11%
Socialist government | 8%
Overtaxing/Taxes too high | 7%
Taking away freedom of religion | 6%
Gun control/violating Second Amendment | 6%
Failing to secure borders/Illegal immigration | 3%
Over-regulation/Too much involvement in business | 3%
Too much spending | 2%
Marriage issue | 2%
Other | 3%
None/Nothing | 2%
No opinion | 9%

Republicans and Independents were more likely than Democrats to say they think the federal government poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens. Sixty-six percent of Republicans said this was the case, 49 percent of Independents, and 21 percent of Democrats.

Since 2002, Gallup has also periodically asked this question: Do you think the federal government today has too much power, has about the right amount of power, or has too little power? When Gallup most recently asked this question in its poll conducted Sept. 13-16, 59 percent said the federal government has too much power, 33 percent said it has the right amount of power, and 8 percent said it has too little power.

In a poll conducted, Sept. 5-8, 2002, only 39 percent said they thought the federal government had too much power, while 52 percent said it had the right amount of power, and 7percent said it had too little power.

Gallup has asked this question about the federal government's power ten times over the last eight years. The last time fewer than 50 percent of Americans said they thought the federal government had too much power was in a poll conducted Sept. 13-15, 2004. At that time 42 percent said the federal government had too much power, 49 percent said it had the right amount of power, and 7 percent said it had too little power.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #101 of 573
Thread Starter 
Say goodbye to traditional free checking

Quote:
NEW YORK – Free checking as we know it is ending.

The days when you could walk into a bank branch and open an account with no charges and no strings attached appear to be over. Now you have to jump through some hoops — keep a high balance, use direct deposit or swipe your debit card several times a month.

One new account at Bank of America charges $8.95 per month if you want to bank with a teller or get a paper statement.

Almost all of the largest U.S. banks are either already making free checking much more difficult to get or expected to do so soon, with fees on even basic banking services.

It's happening because a raft of new laws enacted in the past year, including the financial overhaul package, have led to an acute shrinking of revenue for the banks. So they are scraping together money however they can.

Bank of America, which does business with half the households in America, announced a dramatic shift Tuesday in how it does business with customers. One key change: Free checking, a mainstay of American banking in recent years, will be nearly unheard of.

"I've seen more regulation in last 30 months than in last 30 years," said Robert Hammer, CEO of RK Hammer, a bank advisory firm. "The bottom line for banks is shifting enormously, swiftly and deeply, and they're not going to sit by twiddling their thumbs. They're going to change."

In the last year, lawmakers in Washington have passed a range of new laws aimed at protecting bank customers from harsh fees, like the $35 charged to some Bank of America customers who overdrafted their account by buying something small like a Starbucks latte.

These and other fees were extremely lucrative. According to financial services firm Sandler O'Neill, they made up 12 percent of Bank of America's revenue. On Tuesday, the bank took a $10.4 billion charge to its third-quarter earnings because the new regulations limit fees the bank can collect when retailers accept debit cards.

Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan acknowledged in a conference call that overdraft fees were generating a lot of income. But the bank was also losing customers who were often taken aback by the high hidden fees.

Checking accounts were being closed at an annual rate of 18 percent, he said, and complaints were at an all-time high.

So Moynihan ended overdraft charges on small debit card transactions. He says the rate of account closings have since dropped 27 percent.

To make up for lost fees, he also started thinking of new products. In August, the bank introduced a new "eBanking" account, where customers were offered a free checking account if they banked online. The catch: If they opt for paper statements, or want access to tellers for basic transactions, they would be charged a monthly fee of $8.95.

"Customers never had free checking accounts," Bank of America spokeswoman Anne Pace said. "They always paid for it in other ways, sometimes with penalty fees."

This summer, Bank of America also started offering "emergency cash" for a $35 fee to customers who went to the ATM for withdrawals that would exceed their bank balance. Moynihan said 50 percent of these customers opted to go ahead with the fee.

"We are now in an era where consumers will be buying products from banks, even if it's a checking account," said Brian Riley, senior research director for bank card practice at consultant TowerGroup. He noted that several banks have started charging $7.50 for paper statements.

"Paper and print costs around $2.25, add postage to that, and if banks are losing income from other avenues, someone has to pay for it," said Riley.

Economic research firm Moebs Services says free checking usage has been steadily rising in recent years before falling this year. Last year 81.5 percent of U.S. banking customers had free checking, but that fell to 72.5 percent this year.

Large banks are also under additional pressure because of curbs from new laws on high-risk trades with complex derivatives. Their trading desks have been large revenue and profit generators for banks in recent years.

Michael Moebs, the founder of Moebs Services, said it is now up to the smaller Main Street banks to see an opening and grab customers from the big banks.

"Free checking could become a mainstay of community banks and credit unions in the future," Moebs said.

Thank you, government, for meddling more in the free market.

Thank you, government, for causing private companies in the financial and health industries to either raise prices on their products and services, or discontinue certain products or services altogether.

Thank you, government, for completely disregarding the Constitution.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #102 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Say goodbye to traditional free checking


Thank you, government, for meddling more in the free market.

Thank you, government, for causing private companies in the financial and health industries to either raise prices on their products and services, or discontinue certain products or services altogether.

Thank you, government, for completely disregarding the Constitution.

You put this in bold.

Quote:
It's happening because a raft of new laws enacted in the past year, including the financial overhaul package, have led to an acute shrinking of revenue for the banks. So they are scraping together money however they can.

What, this is your government's fault?

That the banks are greedy bastards? It's the government's fault that when the banks can't unfairly screw their customers one way, they just find another?

You're defending the banks for their greed. They're screwing you, and you're blaming the institution who tried to get them to stop. Those banks... boy. They really have people like you just where they want you.
post #103 of 573
Thread Starter 
The banks that the government bailed out with our tax money? Those banks?

Government is the problem.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #104 of 573
Setting aside for the moment the fact that the banking industry is not a "free market" in any real sense of the word, although there are some aspects which do appear to have some level of free market competition, I agree with Mumbo Jumbo. It's their greed! I think the regulations (obviously now) didn't go far enough. It's time to step it up. Clearly all banking fees and charges for all accounts need to be regulated in order to counter the bank greed.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #105 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The banks that the government bailed out with our tax money? Those banks?

Government is the problem.

Wait.

You are complaining that the banks are screwing you.

The banks are screwing you because they are greedy.

The government tried to get them to stop screwing you.

So they found another way to screw you.

And you are blaming the government?
post #106 of 573
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Wait.

You are complaining that the banks are screwing you.

The banks are screwing you because they are greedy.

The government tried to get them to stop screwing you.

So they found another way to screw you.

And you are blaming the government?

I am complaining that the government meddling in private industry has unintended negative consequences which affect consumers like me.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #107 of 573
Put it another way, do you honestly believe that if there were no regulation on the banks at all, these unscrupulous people, whose job it is to make themselves and their shareholders as much money as they possibly can, would suddenly decide that they were being a bit, you know, mean, to their customers?

That's kind of absurd. Government regulation isn't responsible for greed. That's capitalism! That's the whole point. Giving professional capitalists total free reign is not going to make your life better.
post #108 of 573
Thread Starter 
It makes perfect sense.

The only way the statists running the government can advance their collectivist utopian agenda is to steal from the free market they disparage.

If they were to truly limit the amount of profit the banks could generate, they would be cutting off a big source of funding for their pet government programs, not to mention funding and support for their political campaigns.

This is why the government bailed out the banks in the first place, and why it wants to give the impression that it is "protecting the American people" through so-called "financial reform", while continuing to allow the banks to generate so-called "obscene profits".

Meanwhile, We The People are the ones left holding the bag. An empty one.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #109 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Wait.

You are complaining that the banks are screwing you.

The banks are screwing you because they are greedy.

The government tried to get them to stop screwing you.

So they found another way to screw you.

And you are blaming the government?

You are absolutely correct but it's utterly pointless trying to tell Jazzy that. He doesn't believe in the scientific method and that's what's wrong here, too. He begins with a conclusion (all gov't is bad) and then twists any evidence to try to support it. It's really worthless talking to him or any of his ridiculous cohorts these days.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #110 of 573
Thread Starter 
There's a difference between talking TO someone and talking AT someone.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #111 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It makes perfect sense.

The only way the statists running the government can advance their collectivist utopian agenda is to steal from the free market they disparage.

If they were to truly limit the amount of profit the banks could generate, they would be cutting off a big source of funding for their pet government programs, not to mention funding and support for their political campaigns.

This is why the government bailed out the banks in the first place, and why it wants to give the impression that it is "protecting the American people" through so-called "financial reform", while continuing to allow the banks to generate so-called "obscene profits".

Meanwhile, We The People are the ones left holding the bag. An empty one.

When you speak of statists pursuing a collectivist utopian agenda, you mean the people who bailed out the banks, George Bush and his Republican economic advisers, in October before the election?

It is urgent that you come back to reality. Your nation needs you.

And you need to to stop defending banks when they screw you, because they don't give a fuck about you.
post #112 of 573
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

When you speak of statists pursuing a collectivist utopian agenda, you mean the people who bailed out the banks, George Bush and his Republican economic advisers, in October before the election?

Absolutely. And Obama has expanded upon his policies.

Quote:
It is urgent that you come back to reality. Your nation needs you.

The reality today is that both major political parties have grown our government beyond its Constitutional bounds, and big government is at the heart of most of the problems we face as a nation.

Quote:
And you need to to stop defending banks when they screw you, because they don't give a ____ about you.

And the government does? I'm not the one who needs to wake up, here.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #113 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Absolutely. And Obama has expanded upon his policies.

Let me get this straight.

You believe that George Bush was "a statist pursuing a utopian collectivist agenda"?
post #114 of 573
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Let me get this straight.

You believe that George Bush was "a statist pursuing a utopian collectivist agenda"?

Yes, I do.

Illegally invading sovereign nations under the guise of "fighting terrorism" and "spreading democracy"? Bush. Obama continues the "wars".

Patriot Act and illegal wire tapping? Bush. Obama continues those policies.

Wide-open borders and no meaningful immigration enforcement or reform? Bush. Obama continues those policies.

Need I go on?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #115 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yes, I do.

Illegally invading sovereign nations under the guise of "fighting terrorism" and "spreading democracy"? Bush. Obama continues the "wars".

Patriot Act and illegal wire tapping? Bush. Obama continues those policies.

Wide-open borders and no meaningful immigration enforcement or reform? Bush. Obama continues those policies.

Need I go on?

Edit: um...never mind...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #116 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yes, I do.

Illegally invading sovereign nations under the guise of "fighting terrorism" and "spreading democracy"? Bush. Obama continues the "wars".

Patriot Act and illegal wire tapping? Bush. Obama continues those policies.

Wide-open borders and no meaningful immigration enforcement or reform? Bush. Obama continues those policies.

Need I go on?

None of these things have anything to do with the pursuit of a collectivist utopian agenda.

Under George Bush the gap between rich and poor became wider than at any point in in the history of the United States.

The very idea that George Bush might have been pursuing " collectivist utopian agenda" is so absolutely absurd, so contrary to the facts, that I have no way of knowing how to continue this discussion. I dont know what to write.

How can we discuss anything when someone insists that facts don't matter?

Youve gone from the ambit of understanding through facts. Your country needs solutions all right, but man. I can disagree with people but this is gone.
post #117 of 573
Thread Starter 
I just stated 3 facts, and I think they matter quite a bit.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #118 of 573
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #119 of 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I just stated 3 facts, and I think they matter quite a bit.

Maybe they do.

If you think that they mean that George Bush was pursuing a "collectivist utopian agenda" you've spent far too long on the internet to know what a fact's actually for.
post #120 of 573
Thread Starter 
It's all part of the plan. You see, aliens are really the ones in control. Yes, aliens. There are plenty of facts to back this up.

I read them on the internets.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
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