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RIM unveils 7-inch 'PlayBook' tablet set to launch in early 2011 - Page 7

post #241 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Huh? Whatever they happen to be advertising, they are both advertisements.

The Apple ad was an invitation to the October launch of the actual product. It was a finished product by then. The 'ad' as you call it for the RIM device seem to be somewhat less than that to me. Is the actual final product there, even as a silhouette as it is in the apple invitation ad? The Apple ad, remember was done as a 'tease' so Apple could actually show the real thing live.

It's one thing to tease with a product and another to simply create an illusion of one. However, reading back through all the posts in this thread you seem to have an axe to grind but I can't figure what it is, so I doubt you will agree with anything I say.
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post #242 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

it seems to me a few people making some wild assumptions, based on nothing.

I don't have a crystal ball that tells me the success of this, but I'm amazed at how quickly people are shouting vapourware. It's RIM, not microsoft we're talking about

True lol, RIM isn't MS (They had a successful product in the last decade)... but RIM might be up against the wall after their last launched product fizzled. Their share holders needed something to hope for and perhaps this is what the movie was made for. As Solipism said RIM do not have the all the areas, design, HW, SW, power management, eco system, ancillary products and CPU (not to mention a boat load of cash) mastered as do Apple. Now add in LiquidMetal ... It's going to be a tough field to plough. I don't wish RIM any harm and I hope they do well. Just saying ...
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post #243 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'd like to refer back to this. Several people are saying that it's highly unlikely or beyond the pale to think that RIM would wildly misrepresent their new OS-- that they'd have to be stupid or crazy to expose themselves to that kind of grief, and that there's no evidence that they're that stupid.

But Nokia did precisely this, and Nokia isn't generally thought of as "stupid", in that sense (they don't seem to be very good at hanging onto market share, but I never thought of them as duplicitous or erratic, particularly). But they went ahead and made that video. I can imagine the exact argument being made here being made upon viewing the N97 piece. The same admiration for the fluidity and style of the UI, the same dismissal of the idea that Nokia would be so insane as to just make shit up, the same request that someone provide evidence of Nokia's capacity for that level of folly.

I think the thread has confusingly conflated several meanings of "vaporware." I don't doubt that RIM will be shipping something, even if it's somewhat delayed. I also think it's entirely possible that that something won't actually behave much like the video, which plays more like a broad conceptual piece than a demonstration of any product. If that proves to be the case I'm sure RIM could point out that the application of screens to various real world objects made it clear that the video was just dreaming about the future, or something. But I really don't think it's out of the question that this kind of rendered publicity can get pretty far afield from actual shipping product.

Maybe calling it vaporware isnt the most accurate. Im using it in a broad sense to mean a product that hasnt yet materialized, but I can see how others may interpret to mean that I dont think it will ship at all.

Wikipedia has a comprehensive description of vaporware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware It also suggested glossyware, which seems to be a related but different from these promo videos. Maybe there needs to be a new term for this highly polished, animated marketing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossyware
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post #244 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Maybe there needs to be a new term for this highly polished, animated marketing.

Virtual Prototype.
post #245 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Y'know one company that is paranoid about releasing specs? Bose. And when you think about it, the complaints about Bose are similar to the ones about Apple. Basically that they advertise to overcome an inferior technical product. Of course, the complaints are from people who worry about crossover frequencies....

Still, it's kind of a striking similarity I never thought about before.

Terrible terrible comparison. Bose consumer speakers sound like shit for what you pay for them. I have demoed $200 speakers against a $1200 Bose system and it was not even close in any way. Bose had poor bass quality, a significant gap of missing mid bass frequencies, muddy mids and less detail in the highs. Pure crap. They know it too, the licensed retailers are not allowed to put them in demo rooms where customers can do a side by side and the demo material they play on them has been specifically selected not to show the warts.

Apple does not advertise to overcome an inferior technical product. Apple focuses on the aspects of the products that matter to normal non-geek humans and sometimes that means technical specs are not important or are even a hinderence. Take the mega pixels of the camera as a perfect example. Apple chose a camera for the iPhone 4 that will give people a pleasent looking snapshot with little need to tweek settings. It has excellent low light capability for a phone camera, especially in video mode. To do this they needed larger pixels and therefore less of them. Sure the Evo has an 8 mp camera compared to the iPhones 5 mp, but the pictures look worse, and the videos look simply horrid. HTC got the technical specs, Apple got the part that matters to people, quality images and simple editing software.

Personally I think Apple is missing the boat on iPad 1. If they add USB ports and HDMI to the next version they will significantly increase the potential utility of the device, and widen the audience. Right now it can be a netbook/notebook replacement for many people, hence the success, but it also CAN'T be a replacement for many other people. USB ports are real cheap and would go a long way. Same for HDMI video out. A more portable 7" version would be pretty cool but I would not want them to drop the 10". As for processor speed and RAM and other specs, it needs to be fast enough and have enough RAM, but I don't care what those numbers are. Just make it work. You have to give them credit for launching a very successful first product but I hope version 2 incorporates the ideas from the soon to arrive competition, as well as the existing netbook competition, and then exceeds them. That is why this Playbook is good news. Apple can't just add some more RAM and speed up the processor for the 2011 iPad. They need to compete.
post #246 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Virtual Prototype.

This is why I love community input! How about just shortening it and calling it a ProtoHype.
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post #247 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

... Apple does not advertise to overcome an inferior technical product. Apple focuses on the aspects of the products that matter to normal non-geek humans and sometimes that means technical specs are not important or are even a hinderence. ...

Personally I think Apple is missing the boat on iPad 1. If they add USB ports and HDMI to the next version they will significantly increase the potential utility of the device, and widen the audience. ...

I think you contradict yourself. No one but geek humans cares whether it has these things or not.
post #248 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is why I love community input! How about just shortening it and calling it a ProtoHype.

Well, that's basically what it amounts to.
post #249 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

... If Apple is ever going to use this LiquidMetal, as casing material, rather than used for special parts, it is likely that Jon Ivy, would hide the novelty of such a material with a coat of color. ...

Well, I'm not really familiar with what LiquidMetal looks, or can look, like, but, hiding it would seem to contradict Mr. Ivy's design ethos.
post #250 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

Terrible terrible comparison. Bose consumer speakers sound like shit for what you pay for them. I have demoed $200 speakers against a $1200 Bose system and it was not even close in any way. Bose had poor bass quality, a significant gap of missing mid bass frequencies, muddy mids and less detail in the highs. Pure crap. They know it too, the licensed retailers are not allowed to put them in demo rooms where customers can do a side by side and the demo material they play on them has been specifically selected not to show the warts.

Apple does not advertise to overcome an inferior technical product. Apple focuses on the aspects of the products that matter to normal non-geek humans and sometimes that means technical specs are not important or are even a hinderence. Take the mega pixels of the camera as a perfect example. Apple chose a camera for the iPhone 4 that will give people a pleasent looking snapshot with little need to tweek settings. It has excellent low light capability for a phone camera, especially in video mode. To do this they needed larger pixels and therefore less of them. Sure the Evo has an 8 mp camera compared to the iPhones 5 mp, but the pictures look worse, and the videos look simply horrid. HTC got the technical specs, Apple got the part that matters to people, quality images and simple editing software.

Personally I think Apple is missing the boat on iPad 1. If they add USB ports and HDMI to the next version they will significantly increase the potential utility of the device, and widen the audience. Right now it can be a netbook/notebook replacement for many people, hence the success, but it also CAN'T be a replacement for many other people. USB ports are real cheap and would go a long way. Same for HDMI video out. A more portable 7" version would be pretty cool but I would not want them to drop the 10". As for processor speed and RAM and other specs, it needs to be fast enough and have enough RAM, but I don't care what those numbers are. Just make it work. You have to give them credit for launching a very successful first product but I hope version 2 incorporates the ideas from the soon to arrive competition, as well as the existing netbook competition, and then exceeds them. That is why this Playbook is good news. Apple can't just add some more RAM and speed up the processor for the 2011 iPad. They need to compete.

Good comments. My thought on HDMI is Apple are all about NOT having a direct wire connection (other than the dock when needed). So I see the ATV and wi-fi as their preferred connectivity solution. Fastening an iPad to a TV via a physical cable seems retro to me. It could be streaming a movie and I'd still be able to wander around and read an e-mail (I assume). Come to think of it I wouldn't need the iPad at all unless it was my own movie or slides ...
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post #251 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is why I love community input! How about just shortening it and calling it a ProtoHype.

Or 'StockHype'.
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post #252 of 392
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Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Interesting you should use Phelps in your comment seeing he is no longer the #1 swimmer in the world. Just goes to show that when you are #1 there is only one place to go.

Is there a rule somewhere that says for some, it can't go on for a really really, long time though?
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post #253 of 392
.

Somewhere earlier in this thread. we discussed that it was too bad Apple and Adobe didn't get along, because Apple's iOS power management expertise could possibly help resolve the Flash battery drain issue...

If you do a search on:

QNX power management .

You will find that QNX has some bona fides in this area.

Then search for:

multicore arm cortex a9

and you will find that Samsung (manufacturer of Apple's A4 CPU) has one of the premier offerings


And if you follow a prior link you will see some of the steps Adobe is taking to address Flash Mobile performance:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...ackberrytabos/


Put this all together:

-- an overkill RAM and CPU for a small tablet
-- an OS that appears to be a QNX/Flash hybrid
-- QNX power management chops
-- Flash app development tools
-- Availability of hardware components in production quantities

If they can make the stars align, we may have a platform that makes Mobile Flash an acceptable performer.

You can decide for yourselves whether that's a good thing or a bad thing

When, how well and how much "questions", still need to be answered -- but this could get interesting.

.
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post #254 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This is why I love community input! How about just shortening it and calling it a ProtoHype.

I think we'll be seeing your name (picture) in the dictionary for coining that word...

My late, beloved wife, Lucy, coined the word "hornery"... but that's a story for another time...

.
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post #255 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by manodrum View Post

So the Playbook is supposed to be able to display full 1080p?

Playbook resolution: 1024 x 600

1080p resolution: 1920 x 1080

Am I missing something?

The iPhone 4 can play 720p files. How does it fit on the screen???

Playback and display are two very different things. At least the PlayBook can output 1080p video through hdmi to be displayed on a TV. There is no possible way for the iPhone to output 720p video to a TV because it is limited to component cables. Hopefully AirPlay fixes this, but I'm still waiting on an HDMI dock for the iPhone/iPad. Anyone care to speculate on this? Is the dock connector incapable of transmitting HDMI video?
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post #256 of 392
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

You are missing that one by a mile. It is those ads that made the iPod white earbuds and cord iconic. The ads played off the high contrast making the most important element, the iPod stand out the most. It never needed to be big, actually being small but still the most visible element reinforces the ease of using it. The rest of the ad told the story of how deeply affected the person in the ad was by what was coming out of that iPod.

The iPod was always about the content, not the specs, not the device. That's why the product and marketing were so brilliant and no other player ever got close to making a reasonable competitor. They all thought it was the device, not the story about the content and what you can do with your content and those white earbuds.

Oh good grief. That's just the point. Iconic is not even remotely the same as talking about or demonstrating the product's features. You (and others) have apparently missed that none of Apple's product ads are about specs. Those iPod ads in particular, tell you nothing whatsoever about how the product works. They are all about communicating music and fun. As much as anything else, they market lifestyle. It's a mystery to me how anyone can object even slightly when RIM tries to do the same thing. FWIW, I doubt they'll be able do it nearly as well as Apple, but I can't get angry at them for trying.
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post #257 of 392
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

... If they can make the stars align, we may have a platform that makes Mobile Flash an acceptable performer.

You can decide for yourselves whether that's a good thing or a bad thing

When, how well and how much "questions", still need to be answered -- but this could get interesting.

A very big if. Frankly, I don't think this particular tablet is going to be a big success. I think, at most, it will achieve niche status with some hardcore Blackberry shops, who want everything RIM. (The kind of mentality that until recently, when it became impossible, wanted to buy everything from IBM.) Unfortunately, I think RIM is kind of in the same boat as Nokia, adrift, without navigational aids.
post #258 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Oh I'm just like that with Quadra because he is like a roach when you turn the lights on. He pops in says something stupid and then runs away back to Macrumors where he posts the same BS.

Members like him and Mouse like to cut and paste the one comment they don't like and take it out of context so it looks bad when most of this thread I have talked about how great the iPad is and how I use it daily, not to mention I have said in this thread several times I don't seem RIM touching the iPad.

I was just trying to be funny there, not deep ... and meant no disrespect on you any other poster. Actually, being serious for a moment, I just need Apple to be #1 till I sell my stock and retire then my bias may wain (Nooo not really).
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post #259 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

The iPhone 4 has 16Gb or 32Gb of RAM NOT 512MB.

The PlayBook only has 1GB or on board storage.

RAM and Flash storage are not the same thing, don't mix them up. All my computers in my home don't have 16GB of RAM combined.

The iPad has 256 MB of RAM.
The iPhone 4 has 512 MB of RAM.
The iPod Touch has 256 MB of RAM.
The RIM PlayBook will have 1 GB of RAM and if I was a betting man I'd wager that the iPad 2 will feature 1 GB of RAM as well and launch in a similar timeframe.
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post #260 of 392
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Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Dude, you're stretching here These are ads which, IIRC, ran after the iPod itself was introduced and demoed. It wasn't a product introduction.

When they ran is totally irrelevant to anything I am saying. This RIM video so many seems to think is completely objectionable is nothing more than an ad. Ads are created to get people interested in products. The appeal is not intellectual. Everybody does it.

That's it. Very simple. Full stop, end of story.
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post #261 of 392
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Originally Posted by samwight View Post

It is far from exactly what Apple does:

1) Apple demoed the product, and gave hands-on access on the same day. RIM didn't even show a live movie of the thing in actual use.

2) Apple gave a price.

3) Apple gave battery life.

4) Apple specified shipping in < 3 months; RIM 3 to 8 months, and considering the absence of a demo, the longer time is more likely.

5) When Apple announced the ipad, there were no other similar tablets in the wild. RIM is announcing a me-too product.

Other than that, exactly the same.

(Apple announced the iphone 6 months before it shipped, but they had to apply for operating permits ahead of time, and that would have let the cat out, and again, it had essentially no competition when it was released, and again, a live demo, price, battery life, and shipping month were given on the day of the announcement.)

Fine, but totally irrelevant to any point I've actually made. Maybe you intended to respond to someone else, I don't know.
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post #262 of 392
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Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

How are the specs impressive?

They are the standard specs from, what, early this year maybe.

Those may become the standard specs early next year, when this launches but they aren't now, and definitely weren't early this year. Standard specs right now include a single core A8, not a dual core A9.
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post #263 of 392
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Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Nice reply, too bad it had nothing to do with the post you were replying to. If you follow the "trail" you will see he wanted you to elaborate on your statement that Apple,with regards to using fake videos, "do it all the time". Better luck next time.

No, you missed it. I clearly said was I not accusing anyone of "fake" videos. Not RIM, not Apple, not anybody. Better luck to you next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

And we challenge you to back up your claim that Apple use fake videos all the time. .... still waiting. I'll check in tomorrow and see what you come up with.

I don't have to back up a claim I never made. Read back, this will be clear since it was stated in plain language.
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post #264 of 392
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Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

We were talking about this last night and I started to read about this further on another site. Which like you found alot of this started to make more sense. Also information about it using QNX and the BlackBerry OS 6 currently found on the new Torch.

What I was also reading which led me to believe this is going to be driven more for corporate use or IT use is its suppose to link to your Blackberry so you can display anything from your BB onto our Playbook without saving the data for security reasons.

So it looks like the only real way to take full advantage of what this Playbook has to offer is to also own a BB. Which is kind of interesting on some level BB going that way because that is what Apple does, tries to get you to buy into their entire ecosystem.

If they can solve the battery issue, if they can bring it to market quickly (say, Feb 2011), if they can convince their enterprise partners to wait, if they can roll out a good enough SDK, if they can build reasonable quantities, if they can price it right (say, $700)...

A lot of ifs... but it could happen.

I don't believe there'd be any profit for a while... but that's not the immediate objective.


They will have stopped the bleeding -- the erosion of their platform in their base market segment.

The will have mitigated performance issues by overpowering them with hardware.


As we used to say in the mainframe biz at IBM -- "There's no substitute for cubic inches".

.
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post #265 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Oh good grief. That's just the point. Iconic is not even remotely the same as talking about or demonstrating the product's features. You (and others) have apparently missed that none of Apple's product ads are about specs. Those iPod ads in particular, tell you nothing whatsoever about how the product works. They are all about communicating music and fun. As much as anything else, they market lifestyle. It's a mystery to me how anyone can object even slightly when RIM tries to do the same thing. FWIW, I doubt they'll be able do it nearly as well as Apple, but I can't get angry at them for trying.

I think I see why you are not on the same page as most here ... you are seeing the PlayBook 'ad' as just another ad. We are seeing it as an attempt at a product introduction in other words a big deal. As I explained earlier your analogy with the iPod as doesn't wash for me since that was a tease about a real product - Apple just wanted to keep the real thing for a live unveiling. The PlayBook ad was obviously more than that. Look at the length and lack of a product. It was an attempt at winning over mind share and to keep shareholder's hopes alive in RIM. You may end up being correct and it is just a genuine ad for a product and next week RIM may show the actual product or at least a silhouette held by a dancer
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post #266 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

The Apple ad was an invitation to the October launch of the actual product. It was a finished product by then. The 'ad' as you call it for the RIM device seem to be somewhat less than that to me. Is the actual final product there, even as a silhouette as it is in the apple invitation ad? The Apple ad, remember was done as a 'tease' so Apple could actually show the real thing live.

It's one thing to tease with a product and another to simply create an illusion of one. However, reading back through all the posts in this thread you seem to have an axe to grind but I can't figure what it is, so I doubt you will agree with anything I say.

A what??? Yeah, I guess if you take that attitude, you've stopped listening.
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post #267 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Well based on the specs it seems like a fairly decent device. Dual core is certainly nice as is 1080P playback. Not sure what battery life is going to be which will be a factor.

Says ultra thin in the specs, but from the video it looked to be thicker even than some netbooks. I'm also curious about the OS, is it really Blackberry's OS or is it Windows OS? It's just that it's way better then the OS I've ever seen on any existing Blackberry device, so curious if it might actually be running WinMobile or something.

Competition is good, very good. If it delivers as promised it will help drive forward innovation & drive down prices. Consumer win! A market where Apple or google just dominate the competition is not a good one, we need more innovative companies to come onto the scene & offer game changers.
post #268 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

A what??? Yeah, I guess if you take that attitude, you've stopped listening.

Not at all, I was trying to colorfully point out going around in circles eventually becomes pointless. There will be many new threads to discuss
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post #269 of 392
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Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

A very big if. Frankly, I don't think this particular tablet is going to be a big success. I think, at most, it will achieve niche status with some hardcore Blackberry shops, who want everything RIM. (The kind of mentality that until recently, when it became impossible, wanted to buy everything from IBM.) Unfortunately, I think RIM is kind of in the same boat as Nokia, adrift, without navigational aids.

You, likely, are right about sales numbers -- except if RIM can stem the erosion of its core business, then it has to be a resounding success!
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post #270 of 392
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Dual core A9 and 1 GB RAM caught my eye -- though it seems overkill for a smaller screen.

.

I want that in my next iPhone...
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post #271 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I think I see why you are not on the same page as most here ... you are seeing the PlayBook 'ad' as just another ad. We are seeing it as an attempt at a product introduction in other words a big deal. As I explained earlier your analogy with the iPod as doesn't wash for me since that was a tease about a real product - Apple just wanted to keep the real thing for a live unveiling. The PlayBook ad was obviously more than that. Look at the length and lack of a product. It was an attempt at winning over mind share and to keep shareholder's hopes alive in RIM. You may end up being correct and it is just a genuine ad for a product and next week RIM may show the actual product or at least a silhouette held by a dancer

Yup, if you understand it as just an ad, doing the things ads always try to do, you will be able to stay in your shoes. Others have made the same observation as I have, but haven't stuck around to defend them. FWIW, I have a feeling that RIM will follow up this tease with a more substantial introduction. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? Personally, I don't think RIM is going to completely squander their reputation by failing to introduce the product, something very like the one they've teased about. That's the implication I've heard expressed several times in this thread. I've challenged this implication several times, and had zero response to my question about how someone could apparently believe that RIM is a very stupid company. I've seen no evidence of this, so I'm genuinely curious.
Please don't be insane.
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post #272 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

The iPhone 4 has 16Gb or 32Gb of RAM NOT 512MB.

The PlayBook only has 1GB or on board storage.


<headslap> The playbook has 1GB or RAM and either 16 0r 32BG of Flash. The iPad has 256MB or RAM and 16, 32 or 64GB of flash, the iPhone has 512MB of RAM and 16 or 32GB of Flash.

With the Playbook running a dual core processor and multitasking, it NEEDS 1GB RAM to not starve. That uis the same ration as the single core iPhone. The iPad which does not yet multi-task can get by just fine on the 256MB, but it will need a RAM freshening before too long after iOS 4.2 ships.

As for raw speed, the limiting factor is single core speed. No differences between desktops and mobile devices here, simple laws of physics. And desktop OS software still has a long way to go to make adequate use of multi core machines, high end software does OK up through 4 cores. But outside the high end stuff you don't get much extra raw speed kick, what you do get is more smoothness shifting from one process to another, and OS responsiveness. AND you get A LOT more power draw which means lower battery life.

(I'm assuming BB is using a Cortex A9 dual core processor, the same basics apply to other processor lines too) Not all Cortex cores are alike, Apple has sunk a lot of power management talent and hours into improving their implementation of the core. If Blackberry just buys the Cortex IP and has it fabbed directly they won't see anything like Apples power curve, making the battery life even worse. Also, will BB have the core fabbed with the RAM in the same package as Apple does? That's not a standard delivery option, but does wonderful things for RAM access speed (actually more important for raw speed than Ghz when the specs are relatively close) and eliminating power draw for an external memory controller. Its a fine line to walk when you play in Blackberrys end of the design space.
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post #273 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Yup, if you understand it as just an ad, doing the things ads always try to do, you will be able to stay in your shoes. Others have made the same observation as I have, but haven't stuck around to defend them. FWIW, I have a feeling that RIM will follow up this tease with a more substantial introduction. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? Personally, I don't think RIM is going to completely squander their reputation by failing to introduce the product, something very like the one they've teased about. That's the implication I've heard expressed several times in this thread. I've challenged this implication several times, and had zero response to my question about how someone could apparently believe that RIM is a very stupid company. I've seen no evidence of this, so I'm genuinely curious.

You don't have to be a stupid company to do stupid things...


... like hold a special event to introduce an iPod-HiFi and a leather iPod case (less than a year before the iPhone announcement).

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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #274 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You, likely, are right about sales numbers -- except if RIM can stem the erosion of its core business, then it has to be a resounding success!

I think it will have only a minor effect in that regard.
post #275 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

What I thought of when I saw playbook wasn't some book to play with, but rather a useful tool much like that of a playbook a football coach would use. Playbook can be equated to what the plan for the business day would be, or what the plan to achieve certain goals is. Know what I mean?

Except they didn't name it Playbook, they named it PlayBook.
post #276 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't have to back up a claim I never made. Read back, this will be clear since it was stated in plain language.

Since you seem to be a fan of "plain language" .... this should help even you.

Post #39: ... Originally Posted by addicted44

There is a difference between demoing a product in front of a live audience and saying you need 3 months to release it (specifying the exact month it will be released) and creating a fake video in photoshop and saying you will release it "early 2011", a timespan which can range anywhere from Jan-Apr/May.

your reply: ... What's "fake" about the video? In fact it looks a lot like something Apple might do. A public demo also doesn't tell you much except that they've got working prototypes. I don't have any idea whether this product will be any good, or whether it will ship in three or six months, or never. But I think it's silly to criticize RIM for pre-announcing the product with a gee-wiz video, when that's exactly the kind of thing Apple does, and does so well.


Post #74 ... Originally Posted by ctwise

The reason why they don't show an actual device in the video is because they don't have a device ready to show. That's what people mean by "fake".

Your reply: ... Oh come on. Enough with the double standards. Apple does this kind of thing all the time.

You can twist the words all you want but it is clear what other posters were talking about and what you replied to.
It's time to "man up" and admit your mistake instead of trying to put the blame on everyone's "failure" to understand what you are saying. ... although I don't ever expect to see you do that ... it's not part of your DNA.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #277 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You don't have to be a stupid company to do stupid things...


... like hold a special event to introduce an iPod-HiFi and a leather iPod case (less than a year before the iPhone announcement).

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Granted, but you have to admit that some are suggesting that RIM is about to commit a colossal blunder of a magnitude far greater than your example. Has been argued here: the video is a fake, the product absolutely won't ship for at least six months, RIM isn't going to say anything more substantial about the product before then, it won't work anything like the teaser video implies, and finally, that it might after all be complete vaporware.

Hell, if I'm going to have to defend my deeply radical proposition that the purpose of advertising is to advertise, then don't you think someone who makes the above claims should be required to back them up with at least a tiny shred of evidence?
Please don't be insane.
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post #278 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Since you seem to be a fan of "plain language" .... this should help even you.

I think it's time for you to "man up" and admit that you neither know or care to know what I am talking about, and that your mission is to make others misunderstand it too.
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post #279 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Yup, if you understand it as just an ad, doing the things ads always try to do, you will be able to stay in your shoes. Others have made the same observation as I have, but haven't stuck around to defend them. FWIW, I have a feeling that RIM will follow up this tease with a more substantial introduction. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? Personally, I don't think RIM is going to completely squander their reputation by failing to introduce the product, something very like the one they've teased about. That's the implication I've heard expressed several times in this thread. I've challenged this implication several times, and had zero response to my question about how someone could apparently believe that RIM is a very stupid company. I've seen no evidence of this, so I'm genuinely curious.

I agree with you. This being an apple-centic site, of course very few would want to see any company, or even can accept that any company, would successfully launch a highly successful tablet computer as the ipad. I can't say for sure what'll happen, but boy are there suddenly an awful lot of crystal balls showing up now isn't there? That should be good to call me shill, troll at least 20 times.

If the mobile pad, tablet, whatever, is truly the 'next big thing', then there's no way with all these huge players with gobs of cash, that there won't be at least 2 other very big players besides the ipad. One can't take any sane view of another company's release of such a device as a complete attack! on apple's ipad and a damning view of the ipad.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #280 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Yup, if you understand it as just an ad, doing the things ads always try to do, you will be able to stay in your shoes. Others have made the same observation as I have, but haven't stuck around to defend them. FWIW, I have a feeling that RIM will follow up this tease with a more substantial introduction. Do you think otherwise? If so, why? Personally, I don't think RIM is going to completely squander their reputation by failing to introduce the product, something very like the one they've teased about. That's the implication I've heard expressed several times in this thread. I've challenged this implication several times, and had zero response to my question about how someone could apparently believe that RIM is a very stupid company. I've seen no evidence of this, so I'm genuinely curious.

I don't think anyone is saying that RIM isn't going to introduce a tablet. Of course they are, they are in desperation mode, and without a tablet they are toast. They have to have a tablet. They may be toast with a tablet, too, but without one, definitely. But, here's what you said that started this part of the discussion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

You mean, like Apple announcing the iPad in January and not shipping until April? I read "early 2011" as possibly being little more than three months away.

It's entirely mistaken to equate these in any way. There's a huge difference between walking on stage and demoing an actual product prototype, a finished prototype, and showing a concept video. There's a huge difference between showing working screen shots and, again, a concept video. And there's a huge difference between "early 2011" and "60 days". The PlayBook will not be here in 3 months (early January), and it most likely won't be here in 6 months (early April), maybe in 9 months (end of June, technically still "early" (vs. late) 2011), or maybe it will slip into Q3... or Q4.

So, this is why everyone is disagreeing with you.

EDIT: The reason why I, and apparently others, don't believe this will be shipping in 3 months, and probably not in 6 months, is that you can tell from the video that it's an unfinished design. (Thus why I called it a "concept video" and others have referred to it as "fake") RIM has a ton of work to even finish this on the drawing board, let alone get it into production and bring it to market. It's just not reasonable to expect that they'll be able to do this in a shorter time frame.
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