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RIM unveils 7-inch 'PlayBook' tablet set to launch in early 2011 - Page 9

post #321 of 392
wow people are clearly upset over this.

Anyway, some news on a dev platform for blackberry, beyond what has always been.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application...atform-527268/
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post #322 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

But This is today, This is RIM, This is a new Device category. RIM has no experience or track record with a tablet... with all the [supposed] time and talent, they couldn't even show a mackup of the device or UI.

When Apple announced the iPad they showed and demonstrated the product!

How can anyone extrapolate a finished product from what RIM showed in the PlayBook video?


.

But QNX has experience. You can probably find rugged industrial tablets that runs on QNX right now --- as part of turnkey solution that the manufacturers never advertise the name of the embedded OS that they used.
post #323 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

But QNX has experience. You can probably find rugged industrial tablets that runs on QNX right now --- as part of turnkey solution that the manufacturers never advertise the name of the embedded OS that they used.

Find some, show us what they do and how they are used, then, we may grant your hypothetical "rugged industrial tablets" some weight in the discussion, if they are anything like a touchscreen tablet. Otherwise, your comment is sort of like RIM's presentation.
post #324 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

But QNX has experience. You can probably find rugged industrial tablets that runs on QNX right now --- as part of turnkey solution that the manufacturers never advertise the name of the embedded OS that they used.

They didn't show QNX running on anything AFAICT.

RIM bought QNX on April 9, 2010 -- What have they been working on for the last 5 1/2 months?

Can't they at least show something?

If not... why?

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post #325 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Find some, show us what they do and how they are used, then, we may grant your hypothetical "rugged industrial tablets" some weight in the discussion, if they are anything like a touchscreen tablet. Otherwise, your comment is sort of like RIM's presentation.

http://www.ruggedpcreview.com/2_panels.html
post #326 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

They didn't show QNX running on anything AFAICT.

RIM bought QNX on April 9, 2010 -- What have they been working on for the last 5 1/2 months?

Can't they at least show something?

If not... why?

.

RIM also didn't show anything when they launched BB OS 6, it didn't prevent them from launching actual handsets on time --- and they launched the handset in the first month of their stated launched quarter, not in the last month of the stated launched quarter.
post #327 of 392
5 1/2 months from buying an OS to announcing a product and this is to be mocked? Seriously?

Feathers are indeed ruffled...
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post #328 of 392
Quote:

Doesn't look anything like the tablet RIM is building, I guess those don't bolster your argument.
post #329 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

RIM also didn't show anything when they launched BB OS 6, it didn't prevent them from launching actual handsets on time --- and they launched the handset in the first month of their stated launched quarter, not in the last month of the stated launched quarter.

OK, now you're just circling back around to arguments already addressed.
post #330 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

RIM also didn't show anything when they launched BB OS 6, it didn't prevent them from launching actual handsets on time --- and they launched the handset in the first month of their stated launched quarter, not in the last month of the stated launched quarter.

Hey, I fooled around a little with QNX in the '80s, I had a customer at Stanford Medical Center who loved it -- I opted not to go down the x86 road.

Also, I have attended and presented quite a few announcements like the PlayBook preso...

I understand the pressures, the prep, the attitude, the motivation-- but the one thing I learned above all else is:

"Never try to shit a shitter!"

She can be a gorgeous redhead, batting her baby blues at you -- but you gotta' realize when she's handing you a ration...

... I'm a shitter!

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post #331 of 392
.

Quote:
“This set of hardware specs beat anything available to date on the tablet market,” Steven Li at Raymond James said in a research note issued today. “We believe the PlayBook tablet shows RIM is starting to compete effectively on hardware specs.”

Man... I just can't wait to get me some of them hardware specs...



Quote:
RBC analyst Mike Abramsky offered a similar opinion, describing PlayBook’s specs as “leading-edge” and arguing that the device is well positioned for enterprise. “PlayBook may be cheaper, more productive than iPad for enterprises to deploy,” he observed, noting that the device requires no additional licenses or carrier costs and leverages existing corporate apps and infrastructure. Abramsky’s preliminarily estimate has RIM selling as many as six million PlayBooks in its first year at market.

These guys estimated Apple would sell 1/2 million iPads in 2010 after seeing and touching a real product.

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/2...-garbage-time/

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post #332 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Man... I just can't wait to get me some of them hardware specs…

That’s akin to a sugary breakfast cereal with a cute anthropomorphized animal on the box advertising that it has a day’s worth of essential minerals and vitamins in a single bowl.

Quote:
These guys estimated Apple would sell 1/2 million iPads in 2010 after seeing and touching a real product.

And they are selling about 25 million this first year? That is 50x more than their estimate! We do this very simple calculations that would mean RiM will sell 300 million PlayBooks its first year. I’m selling AAPL and buying RIMM first this tomorrow morning.
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post #333 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And they are selling about 25 million this first year? That is 50x more than their estimate! We do this very simple calculations that would mean RiM will sell 300 million PlayBooks its first year. I’m selling AAPL and buying RIMM first this tomorrow morning.

No... Me first! I uncovered the story -- you just did the math!

Edit: Let's see 300 mil x $1,000 per-- why that's bigger than the GDP of Disneyland..

I think I just warmed myself -- Nokia style!

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post #334 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Well, as I've mentioned Nokia did precisely this-- wildly oversold the capabilities of what was being touted as a make-or-break device-- so apparently giant mobile companies are capable of behaving insanely-- perhaps particularly if they feel pressured by a market that is changing out from under them.

Now, I have no idea if Nokia has a track record for this kind of thing, or if there something unique to Nokia that makes it susceptible to this kind of marketing. Maybe RIM is famously circumspect when it comes to product announcements, and exaggeration at this point would be vastly out of character. Certainly I can't claim that whatever Nokia might do has any real bearing on whatever RIM might do.

But the Nokia example does seem to at least suggest that the idea that a very large corporation would stoop to "protohype" (to borrow Solipsism's neologism) can't be discarded out of hand as crazy talk.

I will certainly allow that it's possible, but I'd argue against the idea that RIM is almost certainly over-promising, based on nothing more (that I can see) than the evidence of one gee-whiz video. My sense is that some people are having a delayed reaction to the ersatz Courier video all the while forgetting that Microsoft never even announced the product. Get burned often? Not that Microsoft (the masters of vaporware) wouldn't announce a product without any ability or even any intention to deliver.
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post #335 of 392
.

These here PlayBook Tablets got no data charges, no contracts, no ETFs-- no cell radios, actually.

Who is going to sell them?

Why?

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post #336 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

But the Nokia example does seem to at least suggest that the idea that a very large corporation would stoop to "protohype" (to borrow Solipsism's neologism) can't be discarded out of hand as crazy talk.

I am not the first.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=Protohype
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post #337 of 392
still amazing how everyone is so sure this is er, a prototype.
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post #338 of 392
Kidding.

Unless somebody comes out with a truly compelling tablet alternative, the iPad will retain its lead. Dell Streak, anyone? Another awkward chimera quietly dies on the vine.
post #339 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

still amazing how everyone is so sure this is er, a prototype.

Yeah, the thought that came to mind while I was watching it was "Vaporware."
post #340 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

But QNX has experience. You can probably find rugged industrial tablets that runs on QNX right now --- as part of turnkey solution that the manufacturers never advertise the name of the embedded OS that they used.

Yep, but you could certainly say the same thing about previous WinMo tablets, and while those might be a good fit for certain vertically integrated industries, they've proven to be a non-starter for the general consumer market.

Which is to say I still don't see anything that suggests that a slick OS to rival the iPad is in any way assured just because QNX has been making these kind of systems. And, again, it doesn't mean it won't be fine or great, just that there doesn't seem to be a relevant track record to go on.
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post #341 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't have to back up a claim I never made. Read back, this will be clear since it was stated in plain language.

Post #74: ..... Originally Posted by ctwise

The reason why they don't show an actual device in the video is because they don't have a device ready to show. That's what people mean by "fake".


You replied TO THIS POST with the following quote:
Oh come on. Enough with the double standards. Apple does this kind of thing all the time.

You also said in post #39:
What's "fake" about the video? In fact it looks a lot like something Apple might do.


Anyone who has any kind of command of the English language at all clearly understands what "ctwise" is saying. You are implying that Apple uses fake videos all the time. To keep denying that borders on a level of nonsense that is not to be believed, but it is obvious to anyone who has been following this dialogue, that you will continue on .... being oblivious to any fact that undermines your silly statement, and continue to post with every intention of shifting the blame to everyone else. Your inability to take responsibility for your own words is a personality trait shared by pathological liars and people with other mental issues. I hope that neither is the case with you .... but if it walks like a duck .....

On a more positive note, you must be a very happy fellow, because, as we all know ..... ignorance is bliss.
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post #342 of 392
this thread is hilarious.
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post #343 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

this thread is hilarious.

OK!

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post #344 of 392
On a CNET Video Podcast today they showed a working PlayBook under glass at some kind of exhibition. It was running on autopilot so no finger touches to be observed. Could still be a "fake" but at least it is a fake with a case.
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post #345 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

On a CNET Video Podcast today they showed a working PlayBook under glass at some kind of exhibition. It was running on autopilot so no finger touches to be observed. Could still be a "fake" but at least it is a fake with a case.

That's something! Got a link?

.
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post #346 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

On a more positive note, you must be a very happy fellow, because, as we all know ..... ignorance is bliss.

Good frigging grief.
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post #347 of 392
Here's another cool video of a cool slate that runs the "full internet" and makes a point of its Flash worthiness.

The HP Widows 7 Slate Now With Even More Flash, as it was being pitched back in March, after being touted by Ballmer in January. Which is theoretically still in development, or "customer evaluation", or something. Also around that time Adobe was talking up the 50 or so tablets running full Flash that would be in production by now.

I can't imagine how anyone would have the slightest misgiving when a big tech company pre-announces Yet Another Tablet, because that always leads to a totally cool product.
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post #348 of 392
.


Doya' 'member the iPhone announce when SJ showed us what a smart phone could be... we all sat back and said: "shit yes!" gimme' some...

Doya' 'member the iPad announce when SJ showed us what a Magical Tablet could be... we all sat back and said: "shit yes!" gimme' some...

Doya' 'member the AppleTV announce when SJ showed us what a entertainment system could be... we all sat back and said: "shit yes!" gimme' some...

...just sayin'

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post #349 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

RIM gave THREE different shipping dates: next month for enterprise/developers, early 2010 for generall US release, and Q2 for international. They won't be that specific if they weren't close to final release.

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

It does wireless, that means it needs an FCC approval, those take several months, where is that? Once that hits the streets add 4.5 months before ship.

Where are the manufacturing rumors? Lots of overseas vendors have been passing rumors on tablet hardware, but none for BlackBerry. Once the design is even in a relatively stable prototype the manufacturing lines need to be specced, contracted and configured. That can be a 3-9 month proposition depending on the project.

These are all realities that tend to lower the probability that BlackBerry is ready to do much of anything real market-wise in less than 6 months. Either that or they became far better at contractor and FCC secrecy than Apple ever has been. I see the chance of that being between slim and none.
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post #350 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

On a CNET Video Podcast today they showed a working PlayBook under glass at some kind of exhibition. It was running on autopilot so no finger touches to be observed. Could still be a "fake" but at least it is a fake with a case.

Probably prototype hardware simply playing a video loop, at least that's what the story said. That's awfully simple to do compared to generating an entire working OS. And because it only did something the old iPod Classic Video could do it gives us no evidence at all on where the actual OS or UI is in development.
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post #351 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Here's another cool video of a cool slate that runs the "full internet" and makes a point of its Flash worthiness.

There are now quite a few OSes built around open web standards. Why hasnt Adobe made an OS built around Flash if its so darn efficient?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

I used the AppleTV example earlier in this thread.

September 12, 2006 - Jobs showed and demonstrated the, then codenamed, iTVs HW, OS and UI.
January 9, 2007 - Demoed AppleTV (again) prior to the iPhone demo and stated a February shipping date.
February 26, 2007 - Apple reports that it will be delayed until March
March 21, 2007 - AppleTV finally arrives

This OS was basically a stripped down Mac using an evolution of the Front Row UI that they tested on Mac OS X Tiger, from a company with a lot of experience with all the components involved. RiM has short-term experience with this OS and a weak history with its previous attempts at a touch-based device.

We dont know how far along RiM is with PlayBook but if Jobs can demo an actual unit in real time to the press and still be a month late after a 6 month lead time I dont have much confidence in RiM. But again, they may have it all worked out already and this teaser video was only done to gauge public interest so they know how to market this device.
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post #352 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

It does wireless, that means it needs an FCC approval, those take several months, where is that? Once that hits the streets add 4.5 months before ship.

Where are the manufacturing rumors? Lots of overseas vendors have been passing rumors on tablet hardware, but none for BlackBerry. Once the design is even in a relatively stable prototype the manufacturing lines need to be specced, contracted and configured. That can be a 3-9 month proposition depending on the project.

These are all realities that tend to lower the probability that BlackBerry is ready to do much of anything real market-wise in less than 6 months. Either that or they became far better at contractor and FCC secrecy than Apple ever has been. I see the chance of that being between slim and none.

You are brutal-- but acurate.

The chance that PlayBook delivers by Jun 2010 are 1:10

The chance that anyone cares are 0:10


From an IT or enterprise perspective-- Why would you wait 8 months for the promise of PlayBook, when today, you can implement the reality of iPad?

We (enterprise, IT) really are too busy to collect the bodies of the also-rans...

Hate to come across as an asshole, but that's what I do best!

.
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post #353 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox;

Here's another cool video of a cool slate that runs the "full internet" and makes a point of its Flash worthiness.

The HP Widows 7 Slate Now With Even More Flash, as it was being pitched back in March, after being touted by Ballmer in January. Which is theoretically still in development, or "customer evaluation", or something. Also around that time Adobe was talking up the 50 or so tablets running full Flash that would be in production by now.

I can't imagine how anyone would have the slightest misgiving when a big tech company pre-announces Yet Another Tablet, because that always leads to a totally cool product.

I thought everything should be running Flash by now, what am I missing? How's the Streak's Flash performance? How is Froyo doing? This is more important information for us beyond numbers and launches.
post #354 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro;

Probably prototype hardware simply playing a video loop, at least that's what the story said. That's awfully simple to do compared to generating an entire working OS. And because it only did something the old iPod Classic Video could do it gives us no evidence at all on where the actual OS or UI is in development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro;

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

It does wireless, that means it needs an FCC approval, those take several months, where is that? Once that hits the streets add 4.5 months before ship.

Where are the manufacturing rumors? Lots of overseas vendors have been passing rumors on tablet hardware, but none for BlackBerry. Once the design is even in a relatively stable prototype the manufacturing lines need to be specced, contracted and configured. That can be a 3-9 month proposition depending on the project.

These are all realities that tend to lower the probability that BlackBerry is ready to do much of anything real market-wise in less than 6 months. Either that or they became far better at contractor and FCC secrecy than Apple ever has been. I see the chance of that being between slim and none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum;

You are brutal-- but acurate.

The chance that PlayBook delivers by Jun 2010 are 1:10

The chance that anyone cares are 0:10


From an IT or enterprise perspective-- Why would you wait 8 months for the promise of PlayBook, when today, you can implement the reality of iPad?

We (enterprise, IT) really are too busy to collect the bodies of the also-rans...

Hate to come across as an asshole, but that's what I do best!

.

PlayBook is minimum 6 months away. Any unforeseen delay and that's 9 months away. I wouldn't call it vapour but it's ambitious, and risky, and clearly hyped up. We'll just have to see. In the meantime iPad 2 will be out first, that should be great. For the record I want other brand's tablets to succeed. But Playbook sounds like it is depending on Flash apps for apps to use. This is a quick implementation but risky for developers. Managing local storage can be tricky, Flash and AS3 are not the most secure and stable thing in the world, and HTML 5 apps again, as another option, have issues with local storage. Maybe I'm wrong and there will be QNX native apps???
post #355 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

These here PlayBook Tablets got no data charges, no contracts, no ETFs-- no cell radios, actually.

Who is going to sell them?

Why?

.

Not having 3G is a risky move. They expect you to tether to a BB phone. Will other phones tether easily? Mmm smells like lock-in. Wait I thought everyone besides Apple was all open, beautiful and free and loving...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well, MacBook was already taken...

At least they didn't call it PlayMate.
post #356 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That's something! Got a link?

.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...t;carouselMain
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post #357 of 392
Yeah, I don't get the Book part at all. Book means something that opens and closes . . . like a book. Notebook computer, laptop, netbook, etc. Why call something coming from a completely different paradigm--slate, tablet, pad--a book?
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post #358 of 392
Quote:


OK! At least some hardware exists. Plus 1 for RIM!

Though something bothers me about that video -- the display seems too large or the aspect ratio is wrong... I can't quite define it...

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post #359 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I've never seen anyone try so hard to dislike something. Really, your comment is pure bullshit.

This thing is cool! It'll be a nice competitor to the ipad, and maybe even the ipad2. What does that mean? OH RIGHT, it means Apple will step their game up even more-so and customers like you benefit.

BTW, what about this (other than being a tablet) makes it an "Pad left it in the dryer too long"? If anything, this is definitely more of a ripoff of WebOS.

Damm_its_Hot does make the points and counteractions, he is just having some fun.

I dont think apple needs any competition to make great products, the product strategy is already defined for iPad-2, 3 & 4, which we will get in stages, we will buy at least twice if not more.

Just a point on Apples market and competition, Apple is at the stage where it does not care about the competition too much, how many people want to move to other platforms mainly due to lack of usability and aesthetics. Most of London radio stations, magazines, competitions offer apple products, not once I have seen BB mentioned. People would not know what to do with a non-Apple device if they won it well the last bit is partially true 
post #360 of 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK! At least some hardware exists. Plus 1 for RIM!

Though something bothers me about that video -- the display seems too large or the aspect ratio is wrong... I can't quite define it...

.

Good point, just opened a mag and they are showing Samsung TV, line underneath reads "Simulated picture". A lot of companies do this, when you check they are normally cr@p. they may as well write "Simulated design" as well
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