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RIM unveils 7-inch 'PlayBook' tablet set to launch in early 2011 - Page 10

post #361 of 412
9/28/10 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't have to back up a claim I never made. Read back, this will be clear since it was stated in plain language.

Post #74: ..... Originally Posted by ctwise

The reason why they don't show an actual device in the video is because they don't have a device ready to show. That's what people mean by "fake".


You replied TO THIS POST with the following quote:
Oh come on. Enough with the double standards. Apple does this kind of thing all the time.

You also said in post #39:
What's "fake" about the video? In fact it looks a lot like something Apple might do.


Anyone who has any kind of command of the English language at all clearly understands what "ctwise" is saying. You are implying that Apple uses fake videos all the time. To keep denying that borders on a level of nonsense that is not to be believed, but it is obvious to anyone who has been following this dialogue, that you will continue on .... being oblivious to any fact that undermines your silly statement, and continue to post with every intention of shifting the blame to everyone else. Your inability to take responsibility for your own words is a personality trait shared by pathological liars and people with other mental issues. I hope that neither is the case with you .... but if it walks like a duck .....

On a more positive note, you must be a very happy fellow, because, as we all know ..... ignorance is bliss.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #362 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:03pm
this thread is hilarious.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #363 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

this thread is hilarious.

OK!

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #364 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:14pm
On a CNET Video Podcast today they showed a working PlayBook under glass at some kind of exhibition. It was running on autopilot so no finger touches to be observed. Could still be a "fake" but at least it is a fake with a case.
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post #365 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

On a CNET Video Podcast today they showed a working PlayBook under glass at some kind of exhibition. It was running on autopilot so no finger touches to be observed. Could still be a "fake" but at least it is a fake with a case.

That's something! Got a link?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #366 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

On a more positive note, you must be a very happy fellow, because, as we all know ..... ignorance is bliss.

Good frigging grief.
Please don't be insane.
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post #367 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:30pm
Here's another cool video of a cool slate that runs the "full internet" and makes a point of its Flash worthiness.

The HP Widows 7 Slate Now With Even More Flash, as it was being pitched back in March, after being touted by Ballmer in January. Which is theoretically still in development, or "customer evaluation", or something. Also around that time Adobe was talking up the 50 or so tablets running full Flash that would be in production by now.

I can't imagine how anyone would have the slightest misgiving when a big tech company pre-announces Yet Another Tablet, because that always leads to a totally cool product.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #368 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:44pm
.


Doya' 'member the iPhone announce when SJ showed us what a smart phone could be... we all sat back and said: "shit yes!" gimme' some...

Doya' 'member the iPad announce when SJ showed us what a Magical Tablet could be... we all sat back and said: "shit yes!" gimme' some...

Doya' 'member the AppleTV announce when SJ showed us what a entertainment system could be... we all sat back and said: "shit yes!" gimme' some...

...just sayin'

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #369 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

RIM gave THREE different shipping dates: next month for enterprise/developers, early 2010 for generall US release, and Q2 for international. They won't be that specific if they weren't close to final release.

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

It does wireless, that means it needs an FCC approval, those take several months, where is that? Once that hits the streets add 4.5 months before ship.

Where are the manufacturing rumors? Lots of overseas vendors have been passing rumors on tablet hardware, but none for BlackBerry. Once the design is even in a relatively stable prototype the manufacturing lines need to be specced, contracted and configured. That can be a 3-9 month proposition depending on the project.

These are all realities that tend to lower the probability that BlackBerry is ready to do much of anything real market-wise in less than 6 months. Either that or they became far better at contractor and FCC secrecy than Apple ever has been. I see the chance of that being between slim and none.
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post #370 of 412
9/28/10 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

On a CNET Video Podcast today they showed a working PlayBook under glass at some kind of exhibition. It was running on autopilot so no finger touches to be observed. Could still be a "fake" but at least it is a fake with a case.

Probably prototype hardware simply playing a video loop, at least that's what the story said. That's awfully simple to do compared to generating an entire working OS. And because it only did something the old iPod Classic Video could do it gives us no evidence at all on where the actual OS or UI is in development.
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post #371 of 412
9/28/10 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Here's another cool video of a cool slate that runs the "full internet" and makes a point of its Flash worthiness.

There are now quite a few OSes built around open web standards. Why hasnt Adobe made an OS built around Flash if its so darn efficient?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

I used the AppleTV example earlier in this thread.

September 12, 2006 - Jobs showed and demonstrated the, then codenamed, iTVs HW, OS and UI.
January 9, 2007 - Demoed AppleTV (again) prior to the iPhone demo and stated a February shipping date.
February 26, 2007 - Apple reports that it will be delayed until March
March 21, 2007 - AppleTV finally arrives

This OS was basically a stripped down Mac using an evolution of the Front Row UI that they tested on Mac OS X Tiger, from a company with a lot of experience with all the components involved. RiM has short-term experience with this OS and a weak history with its previous attempts at a touch-based device.

We dont know how far along RiM is with PlayBook but if Jobs can demo an actual unit in real time to the press and still be a month late after a 6 month lead time I dont have much confidence in RiM. But again, they may have it all worked out already and this teaser video was only done to gauge public interest so they know how to market this device.
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post #372 of 412
9/28/10 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

It does wireless, that means it needs an FCC approval, those take several months, where is that? Once that hits the streets add 4.5 months before ship.

Where are the manufacturing rumors? Lots of overseas vendors have been passing rumors on tablet hardware, but none for BlackBerry. Once the design is even in a relatively stable prototype the manufacturing lines need to be specced, contracted and configured. That can be a 3-9 month proposition depending on the project.

These are all realities that tend to lower the probability that BlackBerry is ready to do much of anything real market-wise in less than 6 months. Either that or they became far better at contractor and FCC secrecy than Apple ever has been. I see the chance of that being between slim and none.

You are brutal-- but acurate.

The chance that PlayBook delivers by Jun 2010 are 1:10

The chance that anyone cares are 0:10


From an IT or enterprise perspective-- Why would you wait 8 months for the promise of PlayBook, when today, you can implement the reality of iPad?

We (enterprise, IT) really are too busy to collect the bodies of the also-rans...

Hate to come across as an asshole, but that's what I do best!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #373 of 412
9/28/10 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox;

Here's another cool video of a cool slate that runs the "full internet" and makes a point of its Flash worthiness.

The HP Widows 7 Slate Now With Even More Flash, as it was being pitched back in March, after being touted by Ballmer in January. Which is theoretically still in development, or "customer evaluation", or something. Also around that time Adobe was talking up the 50 or so tablets running full Flash that would be in production by now.

I can't imagine how anyone would have the slightest misgiving when a big tech company pre-announces Yet Another Tablet, because that always leads to a totally cool product.

I thought everything should be running Flash by now, what am I missing? How's the Streak's Flash performance? How is Froyo doing? This is more important information for us beyond numbers and launches.
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post #374 of 412
9/28/10 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro;

Probably prototype hardware simply playing a video loop, at least that's what the story said. That's awfully simple to do compared to generating an entire working OS. And because it only did something the old iPod Classic Video could do it gives us no evidence at all on where the actual OS or UI is in development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro;

If they were that close and had actual hardware they could ship to developers in October they would have shown it. That would have been worth enormous street cred. But they didn't show it. In Oct they will only provide beta device simulators and SDK's, bet on it.

It does wireless, that means it needs an FCC approval, those take several months, where is that? Once that hits the streets add 4.5 months before ship.

Where are the manufacturing rumors? Lots of overseas vendors have been passing rumors on tablet hardware, but none for BlackBerry. Once the design is even in a relatively stable prototype the manufacturing lines need to be specced, contracted and configured. That can be a 3-9 month proposition depending on the project.

These are all realities that tend to lower the probability that BlackBerry is ready to do much of anything real market-wise in less than 6 months. Either that or they became far better at contractor and FCC secrecy than Apple ever has been. I see the chance of that being between slim and none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum;

You are brutal-- but acurate.

The chance that PlayBook delivers by Jun 2010 are 1:10

The chance that anyone cares are 0:10


From an IT or enterprise perspective-- Why would you wait 8 months for the promise of PlayBook, when today, you can implement the reality of iPad?

We (enterprise, IT) really are too busy to collect the bodies of the also-rans...

Hate to come across as an asshole, but that's what I do best!

.

PlayBook is minimum 6 months away. Any unforeseen delay and that's 9 months away. I wouldn't call it vapour but it's ambitious, and risky, and clearly hyped up. We'll just have to see. In the meantime iPad 2 will be out first, that should be great. For the record I want other brand's tablets to succeed. But Playbook sounds like it is depending on Flash apps for apps to use. This is a quick implementation but risky for developers. Managing local storage can be tricky, Flash and AS3 are not the most secure and stable thing in the world, and HTML 5 apps again, as another option, have issues with local storage. Maybe I'm wrong and there will be QNX native apps???
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post #375 of 412
9/28/10 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

These here PlayBook Tablets got no data charges, no contracts, no ETFs-- no cell radios, actually.

Who is going to sell them?

Why?

.

Not having 3G is a risky move. They expect you to tether to a BB phone. Will other phones tether easily? Mmm smells like lock-in. Wait I thought everyone besides Apple was all open, beautiful and free and loving...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well, MacBook was already taken...

At least they didn't call it PlayMate.
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post #376 of 412
9/28/10 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That's something! Got a link?

.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...t;carouselMain
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post #377 of 412
9/28/10 at 10:13pm
Yeah, I don't get the Book part at all. Book means something that opens and closes . . . like a book. Notebook computer, laptop, netbook, etc. Why call something coming from a completely different paradigm--slate, tablet, pad--a book?
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post #378 of 412
9/29/10 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...t;carouselMain


OK! At least some hardware exists. Plus 1 for RIM!

Though something bothers me about that video -- the display seems too large or the aspect ratio is wrong... I can't quite define it...

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #379 of 412
9/29/10 at 4:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I've never seen anyone try so hard to dislike something. Really, your comment is pure bullshit.

This thing is cool! It'll be a nice competitor to the ipad, and maybe even the ipad2. What does that mean? OH RIGHT, it means Apple will step their game up even more-so and customers like you benefit.

BTW, what about this (other than being a tablet) makes it an "Pad left it in the dryer too long"? If anything, this is definitely more of a ripoff of WebOS.

Damm_its_Hot does make the points and counteractions, he is just having some fun.

I dont think apple needs any competition to make great products, the product strategy is already defined for iPad-2, 3 & 4, which we will get in stages, we will buy at least twice if not more.

Just a point on Apples market and competition, Apple is at the stage where it does not care about the competition too much, how many people want to move to other platforms mainly due to lack of usability and aesthetics. Most of London radio stations, magazines, competitions offer apple products, not once I have seen BB mentioned. People would not know what to do with a non-Apple device if they won it well the last bit is partially true 
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post #380 of 412
9/29/10 at 4:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK! At least some hardware exists. Plus 1 for RIM!

Though something bothers me about that video -- the display seems too large or the aspect ratio is wrong... I can't quite define it...

.

Good point, just opened a mag and they are showing Samsung TV, line underneath reads "Simulated picture". A lot of companies do this, when you check they are normally cr@p. they may as well write "Simulated design" as well
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post #381 of 412
9/29/10 at 5:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

... But Playbook sounds like it is depending on Flash apps for apps to use. This is a quick implementation but risky for developers. Managing local storage can be tricky, Flash and AS3 are not the most secure and stable thing in the world, and HTML 5 apps again, as another option, have issues with local storage. Maybe I'm wrong and there will be QNX native apps???

As of now, my understanding is that it will only be Web apps + Flash. Whether they will later add native apps hasn't been addressed, I don't think. Obviously, they went this direction because, with a new OS, they have no time to put a native SDK together.
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post #382 of 412
9/29/10 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Yeah, I don't get the Book part at all. Book means something that opens and closes . . . like a book. Notebook computer, laptop, netbook, etc. Why call something coming from a completely different paradigm--slate, tablet, pad--a book?

The content for these devices are still called books and when you read a book and this may come in a nice leather case that folds over giving it a book-like appearance. In any event, I think the usage of book will change to match this change in our culture as these "e-readers" become more popular.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK! At least some hardware exists. Plus 1 for RIM!

Though something bothers me about that video -- the display seems too large or the aspect ratio is wrong... I can't quite define it...

As I and others (probably you, too) have stated in this thread, even though we are calling it vaporware, we fully expect RiM to have a final product shipping next year. The HW is the easy part, what remains to be seen is how the SW works. I'll be surprised if it's as slick as the protohyping ad suggests.

PS: I think it's cool how this has a built-in pico projector that can work on pretty much any surface, as seen in the video. That part was real, right?¡
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post #383 of 412
9/29/10 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK! At least some hardware exists. Plus 1 for RIM!

Though something bothers me about that video -- the display seems too large or the aspect ratio is wrong... I can't quite define it...

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arorat View Post

Good point, just opened a mag and they are showing Samsung TV, line underneath reads "Simulated picture". A lot of companies do this, when you check they are normally cr@p. they may as well write "Simulated design" as well

Mmm.... maybe onto something. It looked more like watching a TV than watching a video on a computer screen -- don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. One of the Dual CEOs clutches a PlayBook with what looks a color printout pasted on the surface (it never changes). He walks around for a few minutes with this "ClutchBook" and never once raises it to look at or show the screen... Odd.

But he made a big deal that you could play a video to an attached TV while showing something else on the device's screen -- According to him, it was because of the Dual cores and the "1 GigaHertz of RAM".

Actually, that's a nice feature I'd like to see in the iPad for AirPlay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As I and others (probably you, too) have stated in this thread, even though we are calling it vaporware, we fully expect RiM to have a final product shipping next year. The HW is the easy part, what remains to be seen is how the SW works. I'll be surprised if it's as slick as the protohyping ad suggests.

I think you've hit on what bothers me most -- At this stage, the should be able to show some hardware doing something other than displaying a fixed image or a video. After all, they are only 3-4 months from their initial rollout.... and the (analysts) expected sales of 6-300 million units in 2011.

Quote:
PS: I think it's cool how this has a built-in pico projector that can work on pretty much any surface, as seen in the video. That part was real, right?¡



Ha! That is one fancy-shmancy pico projector, all right -- rear projection on any moving 3D surface that intelligently mirrors the content and masks the display area to the surface.

Mmm... the phrase "rear-projection" creates an unusual mental image-- kinda' like: "a titter ran through the crowd".

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #384 of 412
9/29/10 at 6:58am
What if Apple never invented the iPhone or iPad, where would all these companies be today?
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post #385 of 412
9/29/10 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

What if Apple never invented the iPhone or iPad, where would all these companies be today?

Good question.

I think the natural evolution of technology would take care of part of it -- eventually.

But it takes someone with Steve Jobs' prescience, audacity (and the stones) to make it happen -- it's kinda' magical!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #386 of 412
9/29/10 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Good question.

I think the natural evolution of technology would take care of part of it -- eventually.

But it takes someone with Steve Jobs' prescience, audacity (and the stones) to make it happen -- it's kinda' magical!

.

What if he was never put up for adoption, would his drive had been the same?
What if he had never met Woz, would he not had seen the potential of consumer focused computing so early on or at all?

These cant be answered but I do wonder how much of greatness and tragedy is dumb luck. In Jobs case, there are too many successes for him to have Forrest Gumped his path in computer history, and lets assume that the first opportunity was luck, he still would have had to have seen the opportunity and decided to focus on it. Jobs wasnt the only one who knew Woz and know what he was capable of.

I know Ive seen an opportunity and then quickly dismissed it with that would be too much work or this is so obvious that if it hasnt been by now I must be missing something. Really the opposite end of the megalomaniac entrepreneur personality though I like to play one on internet forums.

PS: I blame my lack of drive and focus on my good upbringing. Damn you mom and dad!¡
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post #387 of 412
9/29/10 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think you've hit on what bothers me most -- At this stage, the should be able to show some hardware doing something other than displaying a fixed image or a video. After all, they are only 3-4 months from their initial rollout.... and the (analysts) expected sales of 6-300 million units in 2011.

I put a timeline of the AppleTV announcement to release earlier in the thread as an example of how long this could take to come to market. In that example I noted that Apple had a shoe in with every part of that product being something they were very familiar with, and it still took 6 months despite the working demo and was still delayed.

And how is development of Flash 10.1 for this OS?
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post #388 of 412
9/29/10 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I put a timeline of the AppleTV announcement to release earlier in the thread as an example of how long this could take to come to market. In that example I noted that Apple had a shoe in with every part of that product being something they were very familiar with, and it still took 6 months despite the working demo and was still delayed.

And how is development of Flash 10.1 for this OS?

That's the big question, isn't it?! As I understand the announcement material, It appears that Flash is the UI and Presentation Services (Cocoa Touch for iOS fans) for the Tablet, with QNX as the underpinning (analogous to the common lower levels of iOS and OS X).

It is quite possible that the reason RIM had nothing to show is the Flash-QNX hybridization was not up to snuff.

Given that QNX has some history and Flash 10.1 mobile does not -- I suspect that the Flash components were incomplete (or performed poorly.

And, if you can't show the UI and Presentation components -- ya' got nothin' to show!


EDIT: To be fair here, combining Flash with an OS is different than adding a browser plug in or developing a Flash app... likely, it is much more complex and requires different skills.

I have had past (web) dealings with a couple of the Adobe people working on this: Mike Chambers and Christian Cantrell -- both are top-notch and probably are the "experts" in the Flash side of things. If anyone can make it happen, it's these guys.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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– Alan Kay –
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post #389 of 412
9/29/10 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by knwbuddy View Post

He clearly said that none of the videos were fake.

Thank you.
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post #390 of 412
9/29/10 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

As of now, my understanding is that it will only be Web apps + Flash. Whether they will later add native apps hasn't been addressed, I don't think. Obviously, they went this direction because, with a new OS, they have no time to put a native SDK together.

Ah... Then my fears are confirmed. Does anyone else besides me see a potential problem with this?

One which comes to mind are how will developers make money? Also, how will they control security/ malware/ etc.

And of course... On PlayBook, (almost) all your apps are belong to Flash. Mmm hope them Flash on QNX runs real smooth and low power draw/heat...
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post #391 of 412
9/29/10 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Ah... Then my fears are confirmed. Does anyone else besides me see a potential problem with this?

One which comes to mind are how will developers make money? Also, how will they control security/ malware/ etc.

And of course... On PlayBook, (almost) all your apps are belong to Flash. Mmm hope them Flash on QNX runs real smooth and low power draw/heat...

Well, I said Web apps, because of the technologies used, and because I'm too lazy to write out HTML/JavaScript/CSS, but I think it's actually pretty much the same as webOS apps, which aren't really web apps, even though they use web technology. I'm not 100% certain about that, though.

But, yeah, the Flash part will be a fun time, I'm sure.
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post #392 of 412
9/29/10 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Ah... Then my fears are confirmed. Does anyone else besides me see a potential problem with this?

One which comes to mind are how will developers make money? Also, how will they control security/ malware/ etc.

And of course... On PlayBook, (almost) all your apps are belong to Flash. Mmm hope them Flash on QNX runs real smooth and low power draw/heat...

I think the reason (necessity?) for the 1GHz Dual Core CPU and 1 GB RAM is to mitigate Flash performance issues.

What remains to be seen is if they can resolve the battery issue.

It's been a while, but AIR, Flash runs like a continuous movie clip with the ability to detect and handle mouse (touch) events and some other events. Even when idle, the "clip" is running.

If they just skin QNX with Flash (or vice versa) then both will be competing for resources to perform similar, overlapping functions. Because of the hardware, that's probably OK (at least as an interim solution).

But, to resolve the battery issue, they will need to shut down some of the hardware (display, CPU Core, a block of RAM, etc). Who (QNX or Flash) detects when and what should be done, and who actually does it-- requires some interoperability between Flash and QNX at a much lower level than that in which Flash usually runs (an app using OS services or a plugin app using browser services).

If they are successful, there are some interesting potentials:

1) An OS with Flash built-in to provide the UI and presentation components

2) Flash with an integral OS

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #393 of 412
9/29/10 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's been a while, but AIR, Flash runs like a continuous movie clip with the ability to detect and handle mouse (touch) events and some other events. Even when idle, the "clip" is running.

No. Listener events, do not run, like a "movie" whatsoever.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #394 of 412
9/29/10 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

No. Listener events, do not run, like a "movie" whatsoever.

Isn't there a timeline and a stage?

What provides the animation when a Flash app is idling, listening for events?

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #395 of 412
9/29/10 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Isn't there a timeline and a stage?

What provides the animation when a Flash app is idling, listening for events?

.

dude. timelines are really passe. you don't need, a timeline for any of that. But you need to understand the way things are done now, it's changed radically in the last few editions. Some projects I have been involved with, I don't go near the timeline.
You don't need a 'movieclip', or timeline for the new event model.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #396 of 412
9/29/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

dude. timelines are really passe. you don't need, a timeline for any of that. But you need to understand the way things are done now, it's changed radically in the last few editions. Some projects I have been involved with, I don't go near the timeline.
You don't need a 'movieclip', or timeline for the new event model.

Duda!

OK, then what is responsible for the high CPU usage when a Flash app/window/whatever is open and idling--- not getting any events?


Are you saying that things like this aren't necessary?

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/air/arti...ng_on_air.html

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #397 of 412
9/29/10 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by knwbuddy View Post

He clearly said that none of the videos were fake.


That was after he was "questioned" on his earlier post (74) where he clearly implied Apple was just as guilty of using fake videos. .... just another attempt to deflect the blame, imo. Don't take my word for it .... check post #74.

He made an outrageous claim and has spent the rest of the thread ignoring that he even made that claim. IMO, that's an irresponsible thing to do. that's all.

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #398 of 412
9/29/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Duda!

OK, then what is responsible for the high CPU usage when a Flash app/window/whatever is open and idling--- not getting any events?


Are you saying that things like this aren't necessary?

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/air/arti...ng_on_air.html

.

Dick,
as you should well know, any application dev platform requires knowledge of optimization, keeping memory use low, etc. etc.. They -all- have it. It's my view a good number of bad flash sites out there is because of very, poor coding practices.

I don't get the high cpu usage on windows, and I used to with pre 10.1 pre 10.1 was not good, this is why they've begun with a completely rewritten player. It was about freaking time, thx to SJ for lighting the fire finally.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
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post #399 of 412
9/29/10 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Dick,
as you should well know, any application dev platform requires knowledge of optimization, keeping memory use low, etc. etc.. They -all- have it. It's my view a good number of bad flash sites out there is because of very, poor coding practices.

I don't get the high cpu usage on windows, and I used to with pre 10.1 pre 10.1 was not good, this is why they've begun with a completely rewritten player. It was about freaking time, thx to SJ for lighting the fire finally.

OK!

I just checked -- I use click2Flash, but have 2 YouTube Flash windows open -- one paused, one finished with the "Just Watched" Flash Display. I use latest OS X, Latest Safari with the latest GPU assisted Flash Plugin. Here's the stats:






Contrast this with one from a year ago on the same hardware. 1 Flash window had been open, but that window had been closed:






That's a significant improvement -- the difference between unusable and acceptable.

The CPU and memory figures are great-- I wonder about the threads, though.


So, say I am willing to accept your assertions (or at least consider them)..

How does Adobe or the end user avoid the bad Flash sites or apps?

Should Adobe, after appropriate public notice, enforce a backward compatibility limit (or some such) in the player that assures acceptable performance/quality of the apps?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #400 of 412
9/29/10 at 1:25pm
Well, its amazing. The miracle has been done. Hats off. Well done, as we know that hard work always pays off, after a long struggle with sincere effort its done.
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robet
stretching exercises
=====
robet
stretching exercises
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robet
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