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RIM unveils 7-inch 'PlayBook' tablet set to launch in early 2011 - Page 3

post #81 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markm49uk View Post

all I can think is 'Microsoft Courier' whenever I see these marketing based promotional videos - too early to say whether this is pure hot air or actually has some substance.

That's exactly what I was thinking. There are so many people still devastated that the Courier wasn't released - I never considered it "real" - but they talk about it like it was just short of getting shrink-wrapped.

RIM has had a few months to digest the iPad and wants to have something to market less than a year after actually getting their hands on one. Can their product compete with one that spent years in development by a company with deep OS experience?

Doesn't sound promising to me.
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post #82 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:05pm
Considering that Apple is the only company that is really doing anything particularly innovative, do you blame him?

I love that there's new competition out there for Apple. Consumers will benefit. My only gripe is, all of these "new" devices are just Apple product "knock-offs". Who really is doing something completely different. Apple rocked the mobile phone industry with the iPhone and now, the market is saturated with devices that are similar but not innovative. While everyone else was pushing netbooks, Apple came out with the iPad and now everyone and their dogs are trying to enter the tablet market. Look at the new laptops out there and you'll find so many that on first glance, "look" like the Macbook Pro.

As I said, I love the competition. However, I want to see some of these other companies introduce devices (not concepts) that actually change the way we do thing for the better. Lately, the only company that does is Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Most other companies aren't paranoid like Apple when it comes to releasing specs. Not saying that is good or bad just that Steve Jobs tends to be the only one that worries about stuff like that.
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post #83 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

And Apple was able to sell that many iphones because carriers had to massively subsidize the iphone --- to the point that AT&T had to issue a profit margin warning.

AT&T never did buy an iPhone and get another for free nor did they give away iPhones for free.
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post #84 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't know if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not, but I'm not the one accusing anyone of fakery.

You dont, however, seem to get the difference between showing an actually running product ( albeit on a prototype machine), annoucing pricing, and release dates ( to the day) and releasing an SDK for it that very day, or soon after and just showing a video.

Thats the thing here. Just a video.

You seem confused by the fact that Apple also do videos. However they do this after they have demonstrated the product.
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post #85 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Most other companies aren't paranoid like Apple when it comes to releasing specs. Not saying that is good or bad just that Steve Jobs tends to be the only one that worries about stuff like that.

They were paranoid enough not to mention the processor or expected price point, which at these specs will cost more than the high end iPad.
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post #86 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Y'know one company that is paranoid about releasing specs? Bose. And when you think about it, the complaints about Bose are similar to the ones about Apple. Basically that they advertise to overcome an inferior technical product. Of course, the complaints are from people who worry about crossover frequencies....

Still, it's kind of a striking similarity I never thought about before.

You are right on that when it comes to Bose. Their product can be out for 10 years and you still have no clue on the specs.
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post #87 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

... Is it good enough enough and soon enough to change any iPad buying decisions.

Will anyone accept a "good for one PlayBook" gift card in his Xmas stocking?

Will IT or enteprise delay their "tablet" deployment projects for this?

I think the answer is no to all of the above -- it's pretty hard to go wrong with a $500 bird in the hand.

Sent from my real, live bird!

.

This won't be taking sales from the iPad 2 (which will be out around the same time), but provided the product is as good as it appears, I suspect many BB owners will go for it. The tablet market looks ready to expand like the smartphone market has, and we'll all benefit.
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post #88 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

AT&T never did buy an iPhone and get another for free nor did they give away iPhones for free.

But Verizon never needed to announce a profit margin warning on all those buy-one-get-one-free blackberries either.

Therefore --- the only logical explanation that pass SEC filing standard is that handset subsidies for the blackberries ain't that bad.
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post #89 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't see that as being a big difference. Apple wanted to get the word on the street before other products launched and potentially stole their spotlight. They also wanted to get the SDK out to developers prior to launch. I don't see RIM's announcement as being that much different.

I don't see anything about the RIM SDK in this story. If there was, then you would have a stronger point about RIM's early announce being very similar to Apple's. But I think the guy who said that the fact that Steve had a working shipping version in his hands vs. a faked up concept is an important point.
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post #90 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:13pm
Maybe it sounds better to the North American audience, but from my Australian perspective the name PlayBook would not sit well in a business environment at all. You can just picture it... the junior staff member walks into the exec meeting... the CEO asks "hey what is that?"... the junior sheepishly answers "Playbook". Your fired... no games in my meetings!

Ok over dramatised.. but seriously, playbook, for business?
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post #91 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

Considering that Apple is the only company that is really doing anything particularly innovative, do you blame him?

I love that there's new competition out there for Apple. Consumers will benefit. My only gripe is, all of these "new" devices are just Apple product "knock-offs". Who really is doing something completely different. Apple rocked the mobile phone industry with the iPhone and now, the market is saturated with devices that are similar but not innovative. While everyone else was pushing netbooks, Apple came out with the iPad and now everyone and their dogs are trying to enter the tablet market. Look at the new laptops out there and you'll find so many that on first glance, "look" like the Macbook Pro.

As I said, I love the competition. However, I want to see some of these other companies introduce devices (not concepts) that actually change the way we do thing for the better. Lately, the only company that does is Apple.

I would have to say Apple was always like this it isn't something recent. Its hard to come up with anything that isn't going to look like the iPad because a Slate is a Slate and there is only so much you can do with the looks.

Its whats inside that really counts. I like the fact this is going to have a dual core processor and some of the other specs. Not saying its going to actually compete with the iPad because RIM is really in the dumps right now.

Most smartphones on the outside are going to look the same to some degree as ae most Tablets.

I do find it interesting that others are going with a 7" model that may be them come to grips with the fact that is the only way they can compete is if someone wants something smaller then the iPad.

Like I said in my other post the only OS that can compete with Appe right now is Android. So combine hardware from HTC and Android 3.0 and maybe you have something that can compete with the iPad. Until then I simply don't see it happening.
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post #92 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

And Apple was able to sell that many iphones because carriers had to massively subsidize the iphone --- to the point that AT&T had to issue a profit margin warning.

I figure AT&T and the other carriers are doing just fine. Look at the disparity in the data plans for the iPad: One plan lets you consume data for a little over a penny per MB. The low consumption plan charges 6 cents per MB. If they're struggling why the disparity? The disparity shows they're doing well. And selling tons of bandwidth that never gets consumed. Why do they keep coming back for more iPhone? Not to mention their cash cow texting plans.

The iPhone may be a dent up front with all the subsidies on plans they haven't collected from yet. But once they start billing I'm sure they do just fine.
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post #93 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

But Verizon never needed to announce a profit margin warning on all those buy-one-get-one-free blackberries either.

Therefore --- the only logical explanation that pass SEC filing standard is that handset subsidies for the blackberries ain't that bad.

The estimated subsidy for the iPhone in 2008 was $325 as a point of reference.
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post #94 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

They were paranoid enough not to mention the processor or expected price point, which at these specs will cost more than the high end iPad.

Which was the same probem HP had with the Slate. That was suppose to enter the market at 800.00 and HP decided to pull it.
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post #95 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't see that as being a big difference. Apple wanted to get the word on the street before other products launched and potentially stole their spotlight. They also wanted to get the SDK out to developers prior to launch. I don't see RIM's announcement as being that much different.

Actually, it is a bit surprising that you don't see the basic difference. One was a game-changing product for which there was no precedent. The other a derivative.

You can figure out which is which.

Developers were not on the map much even when Apple introduced the actual product. Apple was most likely using the lead time to figure out market demand.
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post #96 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:16pm
another crappy ipad clone....yawn
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post #97 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Their message is "this is going to be a cool product."

The operative words are going to be!

I suspect that, if he wanted to, Steve could demo a device tomorrow with equal or better specs, for say, $399.

Give it a Feb 2011 availability, with the known ecosystem of iOS, SDK (available today), app store...

What would that do to all these iPad wannabes?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #98 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

But Verizon never needed to announce a profit margin warning on all those buy-one-get-one-free blackberries either.

Therefore --- the only logical explanation that pass SEC filing standard is that handset subsidies for the blackberries ain't that bad.

The only logical explanation from a vast majority of your posts is that your work for Verizon (or have a short on ATT).
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post #99 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

Maybe it sounds better to the North American audience, but from my Australian perspective the name PlayBook would not sit well in a business environment at all. You can just picture it... the junior staff member walks into the exec meeting... the CEO asks "hey what is that?"... the junior sheepishly answers "Playbook". Your fired... no games in my meetings!

Ok over dramatised.. but seriously, playbook, for business?

We don't work here in the US. We play.

At least I do. I work in the bicycle industry. Definitely getting a Playbook for business use!
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post #100 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

another crappy ipad clone....yawn

You nailed it.
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post #101 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:22pm
How can RIM put up the text "first multitasking tablet" (or whatever) in that video when it clearly is not?

Apple obviously have multitasking running on the iPad - SJ demoed it recently - though it won't be available to use until November.

RIM have shown a video, no tangible hardware that I'm aware of and even if they did it won't be available until 2011 - at least two months after Apple make a multitasking iPad available to market.

Isn't this just a blatant contravention of some kind of advertising standard or something, or can a company just make up anything they like now?
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post #102 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Actually, it is a bit surprising that you don't see the basic difference. One was a game-changing product for which there was no precedent. The other a derivative.

You can figure out which is which.

Developers were not on the map much even when Apple introduced the actual product. Apple was most likely using the lead time to figure out market demand.

What is surprising to me is this was suppose to be the "year of the tablet" and Apple has pretty much eaten everyones lunch. I am shocked that we will go until next year without any other Tablet being released.

I am one that will switch products if I think something better has come out or suits my needs but I have now had my iPad for so long I can't see using anything else at this point. Well except for the next gen iPad.
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post #103 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

IF ONLY THEY'D RELEASE IT THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF NEXT YEAR IT WOULD'VE MADE A KILLING. TOO BAD.. By the time they release it next year, iPad 2 and others will be out.

I think RIM is stupid for introducing a product this far out. It won't be out for another 6 months or so. Now the competitors know what features and specs to outdo. Gadgets have short lifespan and becomes outdated very quickly. The playbook specs are impressive for today. In six months I don't know about that.

Remember when Ballmer was parading around the HP Slate last January? The HP is still nowhere to be found. It's forgotten and nobody cares about it anymore.

The good that might come out of this is it'll give Apple the motivation to step it up big time for iPad 2.

I have to agree. I was very impress with the hardware, as it leaves the current iPad in the dust, but I'm sure the second iteration of the iPad will match many, if not all, the specs.
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post #104 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

What's "fake" about the video? In fact it looks a lot like something Apple might do. A public demo also doesn't tell you much except that they've got working prototypes. I don't have any idea whether this product will be any good, or whether it will ship in three or six months, or never. But I think it's silly to criticize RIM for pre-announcing the product with a gee-wiz video, when that's exactly the kind of thing Apple does, and does so well.

The comparison to Apple's style makes no sense. When was the first time Apple showed us anything about a product without demo'ing and actual working unit on stage first?

And are you seriously asking me what is fake about a demo where we don't see the device, but all we see are projections of a touchscreen device on bus stops, guitar amps, and photo frames?

For all you know, they could have captured the output of an iPad app they created, and placed it on all those surfaces...

And a public demo of the type Apple does tells you a LOT. But more importantly, Apple's track record of demoing completely new devices, and releasing them withing at worst a couple of weeks of the promised date says a lot more. Blackberry has no such record (or at least as deep a record as Apple) of doing anything outside of a phone.

As a way to demonstrate how worthless this video is,consider an impartial observer viewing this video, and the video of MSFT courier that was floating around Youtube. Most assuredly they would expect the Courier to be released first. Alternatively, consider the demos the "Duke Nukem Forever" team kept releasing (most of which were more polished than this) and ask where that game has been for the last decade...
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post #105 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichyS View Post

Why are all these tablets coming out with only a 7" display? Has the success of the iPad limited the supply of 10"(ish) screens for everyone else?

I know several people that want something a little smaller than the iPad. Apple's iPad is a nice size to leave at home or to slap in a cover and tote if you are used to carrying a small day planner around... but for people who want to stash it in their suit pocket or purse the iPad is too big. Three inches would make a world of difference to people who want a tablet but aren't interested in the whole world seeing them lugging it around. (heh, I said "lugging")

just sayin'
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post #106 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

I'm curious as to what size will win out: 7" or 9.7".

I'll sit back and wait for the:" that's what she said" jokes.

I am finding situations where I'd prefer a larger (and maybe, finer) touch surface.

The Pogo people have demonstrated iPad software that is pressure sensitive and ignores the hand resting on the screen.

Something like that and a larger touch surface would have lots of possibilities and still be more mobile than many laptops.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #107 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

Maybe it sounds better to the North American audience, but from my Australian perspective the name PlayBook would not sit well in a business environment at all. You can just picture it... the junior staff member walks into the exec meeting... the CEO asks "hey what is that?"... the junior sheepishly answers "Playbook". Your fired... no games in my meetings!

Ok over dramatised.. but seriously, playbook, for business?

Except that the CEO from your example probably got an MBA from a US business school --- they all speak the same lingo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The only logical explanation from a vast majority of your posts is that your work for Verizon (or have a short on ATT).

Neither.
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post #108 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Well, you're right, I'm calling the device we see in the video cool.

Here's my question. WHAT DEVICE? All I saw was a bunch of mocked up videos on random weird flat surfaces (like a bus stop, photo frame, guitar amp, etc...).

This is no better than the iPhone mockup videos folks were releasing on Youtube in 2006. Well, actually, it might be worse, because those people at least had some conception of what the HW would look like. This video only shows a mockup of the SW.
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post #109 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:31pm
The ad only had brief split second snippets of the actual device running the OS/software. Everything else was images projected/CGI'd onto backgrounds. Nice effect, but notoriously short on real. Compared to the Apple ads which show the device at work (and are admittedly time-compressed in spots) this isn't a definitive demonstration of what it CAN do, only what they want you to think it can do. It's marketing, and not bad stuff at that. The actual device remains to be seen in the wild until next year sometime (assuming at best EARLY in 2011 - with no parts issues or short-run problems). After all they need to stay in the market and be seen as relevant. It's their market segment under attack here.
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post #110 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Or, I could just stream content from my iPad to a TV using something like, oh I don't know... oh yeah: AirPlay.

If Rim things they're going to shed their corporate roots and become a media hub, they're delusional.
1080p is just a feature-list check-off.

I disagree. The difference is that you wont see Apple TV in classrooms, and conference rooms where you might want to show a presentation. This is an extremely useful feature, that serves a different purpose from AirPlay.

That being said, its not like the iPad cannot do it already...

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...eo_output.html
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post #111 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

How do you know it's going to be cool? From a mocked up video? I seem to recall a lot of people that were pretty sure the Courier was going to kick ass and take names, based on a video, and we know how that turned out....

Maybe it'll be nice. Maybe it'll be deeply flawed. I'm very curious about battery life, since the specs sound pretty power hungry.

At any rate, about the best we can say at this point is that RIM is going to bring a 5"x7" touch tablet to market running an OS they recently purchased and that given the specs it should be reasonably speedy. Beyond that (and by every metric that really counts-- ease of use, interaction with eco-system, if any, battery life, quality of apps) we don't really know anything.

Hard to give a figure on the battery life, when you have a virtual product.
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post #112 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I haven't been paying much attention to RIM so I don't know what their sales are like, but the people I know who have both iOS and BlackBerry experience think the Torch is not only the best phone RIM has come out with, they prefer the Torch to the iPhone.

Are you a professional comedian
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post #113 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

And Apple was able to sell that many iphones because carriers had to massively subsidize the iphone --- to the point that AT&T had to issue a profit margin warning.

ATT is making money hands over fist with the iPhone.

The "profit warning" (not sure what you are talking about, tbh, since these can be for many reasons, but I am assuming you are talking about when they advised shareholders in the first quarter after the $200 iPhone released that the next quarter profits would be depressed) was issued because the iPhone has a large upfront cost for ATT (they pay Apple the ~600 bucks the moment an iPhone is sold) which depressed the first couple of quarters' earnings for ATT, but the nearly 2400 they make off a customer comes over a period of 2 years. As a decently large iPhone subscriber base was built up, this effect completely disappeared.
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post #114 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

But Verizon never needed to announce a profit margin warning on all those buy-one-get-one-free blackberries either.

Therefore --- the only logical explanation that pass SEC filing standard is that handset subsidies for the blackberries ain't that bad.

This has nothing do to with verizon. I don't know why you love to stick verizon in every iPhone and blackberry discussion. Verizon is not the only carrier in the world to offer free blackberry phones. The fact is blackberry phones cost almost no initial payment to purchase.
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post #115 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

IF ONLY THEY'D RELEASE IT THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF NEXT YEAR IT WOULD'VE MADE A KILLING. TOO BAD.. By the time they release it next year, iPad 2 and others will be out.

I think RIM is stupid for introducing a product this far out. It won't be out for another 6 months or so. Now the competitors know what features and specs to outdo. Gadgets have short lifespan and becomes outdated very quickly. The playbook specs are impressive for today. In six months I don't know about that.

Remember when Ballmer was parading around the HP Slate last January? The HP is still nowhere to be found. It's forgotten and nobody cares about it anymore.

The good that might come out of this is it'll give Apple the motivation to step it up big time for iPad 2.

Well, according to CNBC, this thing ships next month to corporations and developers

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39386888

So the idea that this is pure vaporware just took a hit.

The article also states that pricing will be in the lower range of current tablet prices.
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post #116 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:41pm
I like what I saw even if it is basically a "look what we want to deliver" ad. And I like RIM soooo.... good luck to RIM in getting that thing done and dusted for us to run for ourselves in the next 6 months.

I think the next year is going to be a lot of fun watching this market evolve. I eagerly await the next touch interface device that makes me go "wow." (No android winner yet)

Until then I've got my iPad that works.... NOW.
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post #117 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc View Post

How is his comment bullshit? I think battery life, processor overload with Flash and having a good app store are all valid concerns.

Concerns? Yes. Dismissing the product entirely for those concerns? That's bullshit.
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post #118 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Most other companies aren't paranoid like Apple when it comes to releasing specs. Not saying that is good or bad just that Steve Jobs tends to be the only one that worries about stuff like that.

Apple's 'paranoia' has as much to do with showmanship and presentation as anything else. I have no idea why people get upset about the secrecy. Do you (you, as in all the people that routinely complain about this), get all petulant when your parents refuse to tell you what they bought for your birthday present? The secrecy is part of the event. The showmanship is SJ's thing. He loves the 'one more thing' as much as the next guy and he is the one who gets to deliver the line. But the true reason behind Apple's secrecy is that it has always been, and continues to be the primary reason the company receives millions and millions worth of free publicity every year. (see previous article)
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post #119 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Here's my question. WHAT DEVICE? All I saw was a bunch of mocked up videos on random weird flat surfaces (like a bus stop, photo frame, guitar amp, etc...).

This is no better than the iPhone mockup videos folks were releasing on Youtube in 2006. Well, actually, it might be worse, because those people at least had some conception of what the HW would look like. This video only shows a mockup of the SW.

Well we have photos of the device, we have a decent hardware specification list, and we have a video of the OS. I think that's enough to pinpoint what device I speak of

As to the videos from 2006 you're talking about, the difference here is this is the company telling us what to expect, while those other videos were people guessing.
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post #120 of 412
9/27/10 at 4:49pm
How is it professional when it's called PlayBook. that's so awful!
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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