or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Goldman Sachs says Apple planning thinner iPad with camera, mini usb
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Goldman Sachs says Apple planning thinner iPad with camera, mini usb - Page 2

post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauerg View Post

Apple will put a mini-USB for CHARGING purposes because the EU rules that in future devices (at least in future phones) you HAVE to have the mini-USB for charging, so you can use ONE charger for all your devices, instead of having to carry a half dozen when travelling. This might even allow them to ship the charger as an option. (Extra but faster charging....)
Of course they will still keep the dock connector.

EU legislation talks about chargers, not cables. 30 pin conector is just fine, all they need to do is change their charger connector.
post #42 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

This isn't really a law-- it's a memorandum of agreement signed to by the major cell phone makers doing business in Europe. Not sure what the consequences of not following through would be.

Also, the memorandum of agreement is specifically regarding cell phones, so it's not clear to me that something like the iPad would even be covered. It's not like the EU is demanding that all consumer electronics that run on batteries must have the same charger.

Finally, my understanding is that Apple can still get around all that just by shipping a docking/charging station with a micro-USB power connector-- which saves them from having to reengineer their entire lineup just to satisfy the EU market.

As far as I understand, Apple already fits the upcoming EU- rules perfectly. You can charge all iOS devices and iPods with standard USB Chargers. The ones from apple just look nicer (my opinion).
OK, I am not sure wether it has to be the USB mini, but even if so, all they have to do is change the standard USB connecter with a USB mini connecter. I guess Apple should be capable to to this.
post #43 of 77
Concerning the theories that a mini-USB port would be due to EU regulations:

1. There is no EU regulation. There is just a voluntary agreement by most cell phone manufacturers to use a common charging plug. (Although this voluntary agreement came to pass after the EU threatened to pass a regulation if the industry does not agree by themselves)

2. Since this is for cell phones, it probably does not apply for the iPad (but for the iPhone).

3. Supplying an adapter might be enough to fulfill what the industry has promised.

4. The common interface is micro-USB, not mini-USB.
post #44 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

There are lots of things that you can - legitimately - criticize Goldman Sachs for, but their needing bailout money is not one of them.

I'm sorry, but what have you been smoking?? There is nothing else you can do but to criticize them!! They are the scum of the earth with all their stock-market manipulation, high-frequency trading, corrupting governments, etc. Not only have they corrupt Washington, they are one of the major players responsible for the financial mess we're in at the moment!! These oligopoly scums deserve no respect from me, and i say no more bailouts, let them go down like any other mom&pop store, that is the natural way and that is the survival of the fittest!

Get off mainstream media, don't read or watch that junk what WSJ, NYT, CNN, FOX, CNBC talkingheads are fudding, the internet and youtube is your friend! Search for Gerald Celente, Ron Paul, Max Keiser, Peter Schiff, Bob Chapman, Mike Maloney, Jim Rickards, Chris Waltzek, Jim Sinclair, Michael Pento, Alex Jones.....just to start off. I did it and it changed my life forever, i'm now preparing for the biggest crash this world has ever experienced, your choice what you do.

You think Barrack Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) is the most powerful man on earth? Think again....
Want to save America?

Vote Ron Paul for President in 2012
Reply
Want to save America?

Vote Ron Paul for President in 2012
Reply
post #45 of 77
Wireless charging via induction technology is the future. See www.powermat.com

Add wireless sync/transfer and you can ditch the dock and cables altogether.
post #46 of 77
Make new iPad 9", not 9.7. Keep resolution the same.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #47 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yes, I know. But the problem is, much as it might have been distasteful, what they did was not illegal. (They settled, but only to avoid the negative (and continuing) publicity about the charges.)

Similarly, if we think Goldman's double-dealing is a problem, then we should make it illegal.

The tail that wags the dog? Oh great. Not everything that is legal is ok and there are plenty of examples of law catching up to practice.

On topic, the ipad IMO isn't going to 7" its the perfect size already. If they are going to uber lightweight they'd probably go bigger anyway. This product segment is trying to get away from the real-estate problems of the iphone and iphone aps. if we see a 7" anything it would most likely be branded as an ipod jumbo.

Adding another port besides the dock connecter just makes things harder for Apple's engineers. The 30 pin connector is just fine and using the usb adapter is fine. It supports usb camera connections obviously, but it can unofficially support a keyboard and my USB condenser microphone as well. It does both very well. With a little tweaking why couldn't this adapter work with HD's, flash drives, printers etc.? I don't see a reason to change a thing other than more horse power, better battery, a front facing camera and maybe a improved monitor. Apple might trim the body down a little too but so far I love my ipad. It and the iphone are were great first generation products.
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
Reply
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
Reply
post #48 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

The tail that wags the dog? Oh great. Not everything that is legal is ok and there are plenty of examples of law catching up to practice.

On topic, the ipad IMO isn't going to 7" its the perfect size already. If they are going to uber lightweight they'd probably go bigger anyway. This product segment is trying to get away from the real-estate problems of the iphone and iphone aps. if we see a 7" anything it would most likely be branded as an ipod jumbo.

Adding another port besides the dock connecter just makes things harder for Apple's engineers. The 30 pin connector is just fine and using the usb adapter is fine. It supports usb camera connections obviously, but it can unofficially support a keyboard and my USB condenser microphone as well. It does both very well. With a little tweaking why couldn't this adapter work with HD's, flash drives, printers etc.? I don't see a reason to change a thing other than more horse power, better battery, a front facing camera and maybe a improved monitor. Apple might trim the body down a little too but so far I love my ipad. It and the iphone are were great first generation products.

Seven inches?

If Steve Jobs had stood up in 2007 and showed off an iPhone that was 3 times the size of any mobile phone or iPod in existence he would have been laughed off the stage. If this year he had shown an iPad that was "one-quarter" of the way between an iPhone and a MacBook, rather than "half way", he would have been laughed off the stage.

Mini USB? Maybe, if EU mandated, but it will be charging-only, and probably via a dongle.

The one thing we know for sure, and I do not need to get paid the huge amounts that analysts like those at Goldman Sachs get paid to blow hot air to tell you this, is that the next iPad will be BETTER than the present iPad. Anyone disagree?
post #49 of 77
I finally checked out an iPad in the flesh the other day and have changed my mind regarding the need for a 7" version. The iPad is just right in terms of size. But it is also a little on the heavy side for a hand-held device.

Take that size of device and reduce its weight and you've got the ideal form factor. Seems to me that's the direction Apple should go in for the next version of the iPad. Let other manufacturers bring 7" devices to market. If their 7" tablets do not weight significantly less than the iPad and/or cost significantly less, Apple will dominate this market.

It seems to me that by not altering the form factor of the just-released Touch, Apple is signalling that it's happy with the offerings it is going to provide, at least in the next while. I say this because there really isn't room for the Touch and a less expensive 7" version of the iPad. Here in Canada the Touch models are priced from $249 to $429. The iPad starts at $549. I'm not seeing a whole lot of room for something else in the mix.

Besides, isn't the main reason that a lot of people would like to see a 7" model because such a device would be more convenient for hand-held use? It's certainly not because the extra screen real estate causes any problems. Another factor is price. But Apple has already aced price considering how remarkably affordable the iPad has turned out to be.

An affordable and lighter 9.7" tablet gets it done for quite a few people. On the truly portable side, the Touch is a decent product, certainly better than anything the competition seems capable of in the near term.

I really think there is a perception out there that the iPad is a large device but it's not. It certainly isn't pocketable and isn't intended to be. But on the other hand, make the screen smaller and you diminish the overall experience.

I'm surprised that Apple didn't up the size of the Touch slightly to improve its usefulness as a browser but now that the Touch seems locked into its current dimensions, I don't think a 7" iPad is likely. Such a unit would serve up the worst of both worlds and to an extent cannibalize sales, rendering it pointless from Apple's point of view.
post #50 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tardis View Post

Seven inches?

If Steve Jobs had stood up in 2007 and showed off an iPhone that was 3 times the size of any mobile phone or iPod in existence he would have been laughed off the stage. If this year he had shown an iPad that was "one-quarter" of the way between an iPhone and a MacBook, rather than "half way", he would have been laughed off the stage.

Mini USB? Maybe, if EU mandated, but it will be charging-only, and probably via a dongle.

The one thing we know for sure, and I do not need to get paid the huge amounts that analysts like those at Goldman Sachs get paid to blow hot air to tell you this, is that the next iPad will be BETTER than the present iPad. Anyone disagree?

We all know the processor will be faster and the device will be thinner and of course lighter. Certainly the battery life will be improved. Functionality will be improved and cameras (at least one) will be added. The only question I have is, will Apple increase screen resolution?
post #51 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

I'm sorry, but what have you been smoking?? There is nothing else you can do but to criticize them!! They are the scum of the earth with all their stock-market manipulation, high-frequency trading, corrupting governments, etc. Not only have they corrupt Washington, they are one of the major players responsible for the financial mess we're in at the moment!! These oligopoly scums deserve no respect from me, and i say no more bailouts, let them go down like any other mom&pop store, that is the natural way and that is the survival of the fittest!

Get off mainstream media, don't read or watch that junk what WSJ, NYT, CNN, FOX, CNBC talkingheads are fudding, the internet and youtube is your friend! Search for Gerald Celente, Ron Paul, Max Keiser, Peter Schiff, Bob Chapman, Mike Maloney, Jim Rickards, Chris Waltzek, Jim Sinclair, Michael Pento, Alex Jones.....just to start off. I did it and it changed my life forever, i'm now preparing for the biggest crash this world has ever experienced, your choice what you do.

You think Barrack Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) is the most powerful man on earth? Think again....

My, my.....
post #52 of 77
How may i pads does apple want to make? The 7 inch is to small to view. Maybe the bigger one will suffice who knows? Time will tell. The good aspect is it has a camera installed.Important to have.
post #53 of 77
There is room for a smaller iPad, 5-7 inches, based from existing and potential client market for the iPad. This may not be for our own use, but I can see many lucrative uses for that size range.

Even if it was introduced earlier, if you believe the iPhone, as a smaller evolution of the iPad design (based on Steve Jobs revelation), more recently, then I would not be surprised if Apple has not experiemented with other sizes, slightly bigger or smaller than the iPad, but would unlikely too close to the iPhone/iPod Touch size.

I would be surprised if Apple will go back to USB, for its truly mobile computing devices, even the iPad.

Many features of the iPad, requires a WiFi, at least, I doubt very much that an iPad in the future, would have mega-storage, like the ignored model of the iPodi, especially when it gets its act together with its North Carolina facility.

The future printer is being configured to be wireless, if memory does not fail me, it is now possible to transfer photo files, wirelessly, just like many household devices, are being transitioned to allow such controls.

I use US, and Firewire connections with my notebooks, at present. Not only are all those conections ugly, they restrict the spontaneous mobility of the notebook.

What will USB retrogression do to a more mobile computing devices, like the iPad?

But then again, Apple included a "wireless" keyboard to the iPad, after the clamors from many users, myself wishing the same.

CGC
post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I know people keep saying it is, but liquid metal is not actually lighter than other metals. It's still metal, it's just cooled differently.

It has a higher strength to weight ratio, so products can be made thinner and still be as strong, but it isn't actually lighter than other metals by any appreciable amount.

I think people some what equate, as strong while less weight as "lighter."

I mean if you are going to get technical EVERY material is equally light depending on how much material you have. So "lighter" is somewhat meaningless, as what people probably actually mean when comparing material is their "density". However, the ultimate figure of merit everyone is interested in (whether they say it or not) is:

FOM = strength/density
post #55 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQ78 View Post

I think people some what equate, as strong while less weight as "lighter."

I mean if you are going to get technical EVERY material is equally light depending on how much material you have. So "lighter" is somewhat meaningless, as what people probably actually mean when comparing material is their "density". However, the ultimate figure of merit everyone is interested in (whether they say it or not) is:

FOM = strength/density

Isn't the bottom line the same?

I mean if you can make a product thinner, well less of a metal invariably will result in less weight, right? That's the bottom line. The iPad needs to be lighter and I'm sure Jobs, who seems unusually fascinated with the notion of making stuff thinner and lighter, is driving his staff to take the device in that direction.
post #56 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

I'm sorry, but what have you been smoking?? There is nothing else you can do but to criticize them!! They are the scum of the earth with all their stock-market manipulation, high-frequency trading, corrupting governments, etc. Not only have they corrupt Washington, they are one of the major players responsible for the financial mess we're in at the moment!!

ad nauseam

Aside from throwing up a whole lot of political BS in this thread, when wasn't Washington corrupt? G/S, and most major corporate entities essentially are corrupting influences in DC, period. Your irate tirade is misplaced and too late. The whole system is corrupt to the core and is not going to change - because power corrupts, period. Get it? Got it? Good. No one is immune to it's effects. All legislation to curb corruption only rechannels the flow elsewhere. So just stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

The tail that wags the dog? Oh great. Not everything that is legal is ok and there are plenty of examples of law catching up to practice.

On topic, the ipad IMO isn't going to 7" its the perfect size already. If they are going to uber lightweight they'd probably go bigger anyway. This product segment is trying to get away from the real-estate problems of the iphone and iphone aps. if we see a 7" anything it would most likely be branded as an ipod jumbo.

edited for length

The whole reason for the other device makers to attack in the 7 inch format is because it doesn't force them to have to submit to a point by point comparison to the iPad. It is the whole netbook approach revisited for the new tablet segment. The question will be if Apple decides that they think the 7 inch format is a viable form-factor, not because its a viable market sub-segment, kind of like they did with the iPods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

How may i pads does apple want to make? The 7 inch is to small to view. Maybe the bigger one will suffice who knows? Time will tell. The good aspect is it has a camera installed.Important to have.

The other aspect to this is to watch to see how things go once the iOS platform is re-converged. If that goes well from an infrastructure perspective for Apple, look for them to start down the road of converging iOS and MacOS.

The iPad is the size it is because it is a logical cross-over point from a form-factor AND marketing perspective. The screen was smaller than a laptop screen, but much larger than an iPod touch screen. Why? Because it was the midpoint between a full-service computer and the ultraportable handheld system. As users demonstrated that they were willing to do so much on the iPod Touch and iPhone, it set the stage for Apple to leverage that to build the iPad and expand that usefulness into a form-factor acceptable to a much wider market. Witness the unexpected uptake of the iPad. More than ever before Apple's customers "got it" right out of the gate. There was not the characteristic "ramp-up" that a new Apple device enoyed in the past. Demand spiked the instant it was available.

The rest is already history - the other device makers are filling in the down-size gaps, either with mini-tablets, or macro-smartphones. They will fill in the bits of the market that don't take direct competition from Apple's products, to make sure they can get a piece of the action. As long as there is not (for the average consumer) a point-to-point comparison to be made (even though they may try to use some size or feature detraction in marketing them), they are safely squirreling away their little part of the market. And that's OK - because Apple has no intention of being everything to everyone.
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post

ad nauseam

Aside from throwing up a whole lot of political BS in this thread, when wasn't Washington corrupt? G/S, and most major corporate entities essentially are corrupting influences in DC, period. Your irate tirade is misplaced and too late. The whole system is corrupt to the core and is not going to change - because power corrupts, period. Get it? Got it? Good. No one is immune to it's effects. All legislation to curb corruption only rechannels the flow elsewhere. So just stop.

edited for length

The whole reason for the other device makers to attack in the 7 inch format is because it doesn't force them to have to submit to a point by point comparison to the iPad. It is the whole netbook approach revisited for the new tablet segment. The question will be if Apple decides that they think the 7 inch format is a viable form-factor, not because its a viable market sub-segment, kind of like they did with the iPods.



The other aspect to this is to watch to see how things go once the iOS platform is re-converged. If that goes well from an infrastructure perspective for Apple, look for them to start down the road of converging iOS and MacOS.

The iPad is the size it is because it is a logical cross-over point from a form-factor AND marketing perspective. The screen was smaller than a laptop screen, but much larger than an iPod touch screen. Why? Because it was the midpoint between a full-service computer and the ultraportable handheld system. As users demonstrated that they were willing to do so much on the iPod Touch and iPhone, it set the stage for Apple to leverage that to build the iPad and expand that usefulness into a form-factor acceptable to a much wider market. Witness the unexpected uptake of the iPad. More than ever before Apple's customers "got it" right out of the gate. There was not the characteristic "ramp-up" that a new Apple device enoyed in the past. Demand spiked the instant it was available.

The rest is already history - the other device makers are filling in the down-size gaps, either with mini-tablets, or macro-smartphones. They will fill in the bits of the market that don't take direct competition from Apple's products, to make sure they can get a piece of the action. As long as there is not (for the average consumer) a point-to-point comparison to be made (even though they may try to use some size or feature detraction in marketing them), they are safely squirreling away their little part of the market. And that's OK - because Apple has no intention of being everything to everyone.


The reason that the competition is going with 7" devices is that Apple's most impressive accomplishment with the iPad is the price. Before they released the iPad, there were rumours about price but when it was announced the device would start at around $500, that was the most startling aspect of the new device. It was expected the price would be much higher and it's clear that the competition doesn't know how to build a device sized like the iPad and remain competitive re price.

It's a brilliant move on Apple's part because undercutting Apple on price has long been an advantage that competitors have relied on. Where Apple has an edge, though, is that while competitors will lower price as production ramps up, allowing for economies of scale, Apple will keep their current pricing and instead make their device progressively more capable. For this to work, Apple's offering has to be a cut above but that's viable because Apple starts off a step or two ahead. As competitors scramble to take on what Apple is selling now, Apple is busy preparing the next model which will raise the bar yet again.

Already, though, by pricing the iPad aggressively, Apple is forcing competitors to cut corners to stay at least ballpark in price. So the iPad is easily ahead of what's coming in the first wave of iPad challengers, being the only one of the bunch with a 9.7-inch screen. By the time the competition can bring down price enough to compete, the iPad will be firmly established as a class-leading device.
post #58 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Project2501 View Post

EU legislation talks about chargers, not cables. 30 pin conector is just fine, all they need to do is change their charger connector.

It's about ports on the phone. A micro (not mini) usb cable is supposed to be able to plug into the phone. I'm not sure if Apple can skirt the rules by providing a dock connector adaptor that accepts micro USB.

Either way, I suspect changes are in order for the dock connector. Apple doesn't have an HDMI dock available and I don't believe it can transmit digital video through the dock connector at all (I'm sure somone will correct me if I'm wrong). This in itself is a problem that needs to be addressed. Intel should also be finishing up the LightPeak spec, I'm sure Apple will want to take advantage of that to improve sync times. At the same time, Apple is heavily invested in the current dock connector and plenty of third party devices rely on it. Can Apple update the dock connector without breaking compatibility? If not, maybe we will see more ports. Mini USB seems unlikely considering the fact that the dock connector can handle USB just fine.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #59 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Isn't the bottom line the same?

I mean if you can make a product thinner, well less of a metal invariably will result in less weight, right? That's the bottom line. The iPad needs to be lighter and I'm sure Jobs, who seems unusually fascinated with the notion of making stuff thinner and lighter, is driving his staff to take the device in that direction.

That is my point. I think we may be saying the same thing.

But thinner only means lighter if the density remains the same and you want to maintain the same strength.

So, it really does come down to the merit function = strength^n / density^m

where n & m may vary depending on if the benefit of strength is linear (n=1) with the benefit of "light". Though they are likely n=m=1, or close to it.
post #60 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Adding a card reader would make much more sense for customers..

Apple probably views it like they do a required stylus -- one more thing to have to carry around, one more thing to lose and have things grind to a halt

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #61 of 77
Personally, the current price of the iPad is a bit high for me, given what it can do. The iPod Touch, when it's all said and done, does the same things. It's lighter, thinner, runs the same Apps, all for a much smaller price tag. Yes I understand that the added battery and screen size play a huge role in price, but really? $300 extra for a larger battery and bigger screen? That being said, Apple loves to stay at their established price point for a very long time. With the exception of the first generations of the iPod and the first gen price deduction of the iPhone, their mobile devices have pretty much stayed at the price points from when they were first established...so the point here about price is probably mute.

I'm also not really crazy about the non-physical-keyboard-attachment while sitting on the coach aspect. The accessory keyboard is nice, if you place it on a desk, but not while sitting. And I couldn't imaging typing on a forum with the iPad while watching TV, or live blogging on it at a convention sitting in those crappy fold-up chairs.

So if they were going to do anything. Give me a keyboard attachment for the sofa, a lighter design, facetime and a slightly better resolution display and I'd be getting the next one. After seeing the screen in person, and comparing to my iPhone 3G, i found the screen to be a bit too pixelated for my tastes.

Granted, the competition is pretty much non-existent, we haven't see anything come from the Google camp since last year October and still nothing. Samsung and RiM have their things but they don't really compare, plus i'd rather have something in the Apple ecosystem anyway. My problem is that i'd really like something like a small lap-top mobile device, since i need a physical keyboard, but I don't want a crap Netbook and the MBA is about 4x more than i'm willing to spend. And I don't need a full-OS device. Just the current iOS, which a physical keyboard. Here's for wishful thinking of a future iOS MBA!!!
post #62 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

This doesn't seem like much of a prediction to me.

Betting that the next years model will be thinner and lighter is like betting the sun will come up in the morning. Every Apple product gets thinner and lighter with each iteration since they are obsessed with thinness and lightness. Predicting that it will have a camera is like being an echo chamber for everything everyone has said about the iPad so far and the mini-USB prediction is almost certainly just wrong. Also, if it comes out in late spring or early second quarter, isn't that the exact same time as the original came out?

I think these guys just like to hear themselves speak.

Agreed. But what surprises me is no mention of increased RAM (isn't it just 256 right now) or increased internal storage. I would think they would drop those in there.

frankly I will keep the current weight if it means more ram, a faster processor and either more storage or a price drop. especially a drop on teh diff between the wifi only and the +3g. I get that there's licensing fees as well as component cost but $130 is still a huge ouch.

What I would love to see myself is the retina display level of pixels with a screen that has a light anti glare finish. Also between oil resistance with that oleophobic talk. And given the whole 'there's no wrong way to hold it' feature they were tossing around, how about a forward facing camera that is under the glass and rotates with the ipad. that way I can facetime without worrying about turning it 'the right way' and I'm looking at the screen and not at a corner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by applol View Post

You guys are retarded.

and joining just to say that is point 1 on 'how to tell if someone is just a wanker troll'. Expect to be berated, ignored and if you keep up the 'tude banned from posting. Cause two things we really really don't like are wankers and trolls. No matter how smart they are (or think they are)

Quote:
The mini USB is real. It's part of an EU requirement for standardization of charging portable devices. This will show up on everything you own.

This is true, however depending on how they define a 'portable device' the ipad could be off the list. At least for a while.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Personally, the current price of the iPad is a bit high for me, given what it can do. The iPod Touch, when it's all said and done, does the same things. It's lighter, thinner, runs the same Apps, all for a much smaller price tag. Yes I understand that the added battery and screen size play a huge role in price, but really? $300 extra for a larger battery and bigger screen? That being said, Apple loves to stay at their established price point for a very long time. With the exception of the first generations of the iPod and the first gen price deduction of the iPhone, their mobile devices have pretty much stayed at the price points from when they were first established...so the point here about price is probably mute.

I'm also not really crazy about the non-physical-keyboard-attachment while sitting on the coach aspect. The accessory keyboard is nice, if you place it on a desk, but not while sitting. And I couldn't imaging typing on a forum with the iPad while watching TV, or live blogging on it at a convention sitting in those crappy fold-up chairs.

So if they were going to do anything. Give me a keyboard attachment for the sofa, a lighter design, facetime and a slightly better resolution display and I'd be getting the next one. After seeing the screen in person, and comparing to my iPhone 3G, i found the screen to be a bit too pixelated for my tastes.

Granted, the competition is pretty much non-existent, we haven't see anything come from the Google camp since last year October and still nothing. Samsung and RiM have their things but they don't really compare, plus i'd rather have something in the Apple ecosystem anyway. My problem is that i'd really like something like a small lap-top mobile device, since i need a physical keyboard, but I don't want a crap Netbook and the MBA is about 4x more than i'm willing to spend. And I don't need a full-OS device. Just the current iOS, which a physical keyboard. Here's for wishful thinking of a future iOS MBA!!!

In regards to the iPad price, it is obviously not that high considering nobody else seems able to deliver at this time a $500 tablet with a 9.7-inch screen. In comparing it to the Touch, two very different products. The larger screen transforms the user experience. The Touch has merit. It can be taken absolutely anywhere. But let's face it, when you're back at home and you want to browse, read, etc. the Touch really isn't an adequate substitute for the iPad. It can do browsing and you can read on it, sure, but it's a whole other experience.
post #64 of 77
with regards to price and comparison, they are the same save for screen size and battery. I'm not talking about user experience, they are different, but just from the standpoint of looking at the specs on paper they are pretty much the same except for what i've mentioned. Paying and extra $300 for a different user experience is steep if you ask me. I've tried one for a day (borrowed a friend's iPad) and I can safely state that experience is not that large of a gap. Reading is better on the iPad, but for quick emailing and browsing on apps and facebook, I'd say the user experience between my iPhone and iPad is slim enough that the added cost is not worth it. That's all i'm say'n.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

In regards to the iPad price, it is obviously not that high considering nobody else seems able to deliver at this time a $500 tablet with a 9.7-inch screen. In comparing it to the Touch, two very different products. The larger screen transforms the user experience. The Touch has merit. It can be taken absolutely anywhere. But let's face it, when you're back at home and you want to browse, read, etc. the Touch really isn't an adequate substitute for the iPad. It can do browsing and you can read on it, sure, but it's a whole other experience.
post #65 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

with regards to price and comparison, they are the same save for screen size and battery. I'm not talking about user experience, they are different, but just from the standpoint of looking at the specs on paper they are pretty much the same except for what i've mentioned. Paying and extra $300 for a different user experience is steep if you ask me. I've tried one for a day (borrowed a friend's iPad) and I can safely state that experience is not that large of a gap. Reading is better on the iPad, but for quick emailing and browsing on apps and facebook, I'd say the user experience between my iPhone and iPad is slim enough that the added cost is not worth it. That's all i'm say'n.

You found browsing roughly equivalent on a 3.5-inch screen to doing so on a 9.7-inch screen? Not sure what to say to that.

It's not, by the way, a simple matter of making the screen bigger. The iPad screen is an IPS panel whereas the iPod Touch screen in the previous Touch was not, nor is the new Touch screen though it is a Retina Display. Larger screens, especially IPS screens, do not come cheap and neither does a more robust battery. Also, the case is larger and hence more expensive to produce. In addition, Apple needs to recoup development costs, or are you suggesting that Apple staff should do all that research out of the goodness of their hearts. And what about promotional costs? Are they to be absorbed by Apple to make your day? Additional effort must also go into software development to accommodate the iPad. In short, you can't just look at a couple of simple specs and declare that's all there is. I doubt that Apple staff go home for the night to find that through the night an army of elves have taken care of the many hours of hard work required to bring any new product to market. You're not just paying for hardware. You're paying for all the time and effort that goes into bringing a new product to market. If you're not willing to pay that, kiss new products good bye.
post #66 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

Everybody is always going on about needing a USB connector on the Ipad.

Yes! The goal is the ability to plug in as many USB devices as possible when needed. That could be a memory stick, a web cam, RS232 converter or even an ethernet converter. This idea is simple, a standard USB port is the quickest way to leveraging existing hardware.
Quote:
Now a 30 pin connector has an output of 3.3 volts and a USB 2 connector has an output of 5 volts. So I have always wondered if the lack of USB has more to do with the power output specification against battery life then anything else. I mean, what does that screen and cpu pull? anyone know?

Voltage isn't power! Second these days manufactures would use regulator chips to give them the required voltage levels. However you are right in one sense if the port isn't there you will use less power.

I suspect that the lack of a defned USB port has more to do with drivers. By selling a USB port as a "Camera Connection Kit" they remove the expectation of general purpose usage of the port. Thus they only need to support a limited set of drivers. That is my guess though.

USB for my interests is tied very closely to the desire to gave an SD slot on the device. The thing here is that the built in Flash storage will never be enough so SD cards can help out. What I'm thinking about here is the storage of video on SD cards to relieve pressure on internal flash memory. Of course interfacing to cards from your camera us a big deal too. Two 16GB SD cards would hold a lot of iTunes movies and save you 32GB of internal storage. For people that travel this would be huge.

Obviously this could be done by an off the shelf USB dongle, it is just that a built in SD slot is always there and doesn't get lost. Lost is another reason to favor an SD slot over the Camera Connection Kit. I'm not sure why Apple hasn't built in the port already as it is well supported on the Mac laptops. It should be simpler to support SD in this role than USB and its more general nature.

In any event people have to remember that this is a rev one device. The concept has been worked on since before iPhone. The current hardware is likely to be two years old by now. In that time Apple has likely learned a bit about the concept and its first realization in iPad. Some of that likely includes customer feedback. Hopefully they will address some of our concerns.


Dave
post #67 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsy2001 View Post

I hope memory cards aren't the future. I hate them and I am glad I don't have to deal with them for my iPhone (2G version). I rarely use the whole 16GB on my iPhone so I don't feel like it would add anything to have card capacity.

I never change the one in my camera (even though I have 2). I wish it just had a couple GB internal.

I realize that I may be in the minority on this one.

There is nothing wrong with that of course. In my case I couldn't imagine going anywhere with my camera without a few memory cards. I mean really what do you do if you are in the middle of whatever and run out of space?

For a cell phone I'd have to agree that SD cards would be useless or a waste. On an iPad a SD port would be huge and allow for the type of field usage the thing is designed for. Right now iPad is the only tablet good enough for field use in photography. It might not pass as a color corrected editing station but it is a great platform for reviewing pics.

Of course pictures are just one reason to support SD on the iPad. What I wonder though is why you are so dead set against memory cards? It just seems very strange, after all what are the negatives.
post #68 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post

You are not alone. Instead of adding memory card slots to devices, we should just add wifi/bluetooth to cameras. several already have this feature, plus there are memory cards with wifi built in.

wireless transfer, that's the future... (and present)

Wireless will always be slow. More importantly what do you do when there is no device to transfer to? Outside of ones cellar there are plenty of reasons to keep a memory card or two on hand. If nothing else it is like having an extra battery, assuring you that you can keep going while traveling light.

In a nut shell I don't think most camera users support your position. Especially anybody with experience.
post #69 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

with regards to price and comparison, they are the same save for screen size and battery. I'm not talking about user experience, they are different, but just from the standpoint of looking at the specs on paper they are pretty much the same except for what i've mentioned.

From the standpoint of specs, you and a bag of chemicals are pretty much the same, especially if we exclude the user experience. So, are you just a big bag of chemicals?
post #70 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by applol View Post

You guys are retarded.

The mini USB is real. It's part of an EU requirement for standardization of charging portable devices. This will show up on everything you own.

I'm ambivalent. On the one hand, it's nice to have some standardization here. Really, industry should have done it a long effing time ago. I say this as a product design engineer.

On the other hand, the dock connector works really well, and of course, you have legacy ecosystem inertia. However, legacy is never a good reason by itself to continue doing something.

Could mini USB be used for anything useful besides charging? I don't know how it works electrically but I've only seen mini USB on cables where the 'receiver' device is located while the standard USB plug is what goes into the computer (master). So, for instance, could the iPad be the 'master' with the mini USB plug and a receiver USB plug on the other end of the cable plugged into a hard drive, printer, etc? (USB does not set up a network like ethernet, there is a definite 'uphill' and 'downhill'. The computer is at the top and the peripherals are all 'downhill'.)

A quick search on Amazon doesn't show any USB cables that have male mini USB plugs on both ends. The implications of this would be that a mini USB port would not provide the USB connectivity that the refuseniks are clamoring to have.
post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

There are lots of things that you can - legitimately - criticize Goldman Sachs for, but their needing bailout money is not one of them.

They were doing quite well, actually, even as the rest of the industry was falling like nine-pins.

Suffice it to say that they were given an offer they couldn't refuse. They were not given the option to say 'no.' (They were also the first to pay it all back, and with interest).


Don't forget that they spent the money they 'didn't need' first, then payed it off with funds from 2-3 other corrupt schemes with cover fire provided by the current admin. Fraud has become synonymous with GS, and they've been far too chumy with ø.
post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yes, I know. But the problem is, much as it might have been distasteful, what they did was not illegal. (They settled, but only to avoid the negative (and continuing) publicity about the charges.)

It's like smoking: If we really feel it's such a problem, then we should have the policy courage to make it illegal. (For the record, I don't smoke; but I respect the right that people have to do things that are legal).

Similarly, if we think Goldman's double-dealing is a problem, then we should make it illegal.

It wasn't stated, but I think it should be illegal. I think that an investment house should have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients.

Just because "we" feel it is a problem doesn't make it a law. Congress gets heavily influenced by lobbyists to ensure that these types of activities don't become illegal.
post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Wireless will always be slow. More importantly what do you do when there is no device to transfer to? Outside of ones cellar there are plenty of reasons to keep a memory card or two on hand. If nothing else it is like having an extra battery, assuring you that you can keep going while traveling light.

In a nut shell I don't think most camera users support your position. Especially anybody with experience.

lasers are bitchin' fast!!! lasers in cameras and lasers in iPads and iPhones!! FTW!!! Screaming fast data transfers and a way to nail zombies when the Zombie Apocalypse comes!!!

Sorry everyone a long day just got to me.
post #74 of 77
The lack of knowledge about USB in this forum is staggering.

Let's put aside for a minute that memory cards and USB connectivity is pretty much a thing of the past for mobile devices.

Let's purely analyze USB.
1> There are two types of units : hosts and devices. The 30 pin connector + USB A cable makes the iDevice just that, a device. Since the cable + 30 pin serves more functions (I mean a LOT MORE) than just USB connectivity, it makes total sense NOT to put a mini, micro or regular device-side USB connectors on there. Many other devices do this, it is nothing new and given that the same 30 pin connector is leveraged across 3 product lines, I'd say that's a lot of friggin hard work on the design side for all 3. So there, 30 pin it is, like it or not. (I like it, due to the increased functionality)

2> What people seem to require here is a host port (like the kinds on your laptop) that you want to plug USB devices into. Like I hinted at before, memory cards and generic USB ports are not the greatest ideas right now, probably ever (read what follows later to see why). With the network and on board storage, Apple has a nice seamless, integrated solution (as always) that gets the job done with minimum hassle to the user.

The biggest problem with USB is power. Someone only got half the story alluding to power earlier. USB hosts need to provide 5V and a minimum of 100mA of power (up to 500mA). Ignoring the MASSIVE size and pure ugliness of including a USB host on board (go look at the teardown of an iPad to see internal board size), this sort of power is just not available on a truly mobile device without giving up something else. It doesn't make any sense.


Some of the more astute readers may point out that the 30-pin acts as both a device AND as a host (media connection kit). This is true, but by limiting the use case, they control what drivers need to be installed/HW needs to be supported and they also reduce the opportunity for prolonged power suckage, while still offering consumers what they would really need such a port for.

I'll say it again, with the ample on board storage, and the rising ubiquity of networks, memory cards are relegated to a corner case users. The kind that still walk around with 5lb laptops. Sure, they'll beat their chests sore saying they're the power users, but they are corner case still, not the focus.


PS : USB 3.0 uses even more power for 10x the speed, very few devices and hosts out in the field and this will be even less widely adopted than USB 2.0 on mobile devices. Just in case someone piped up.
Number of people in ignore list : 1
Reply
Number of people in ignore list : 1
Reply
post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

The reason that the competition is going with 7" devices is that Apple's most impressive accomplishment with the iPad is the price. Before they released the iPad, there were rumours about price but when it was announced the device would start at around $500, that was the most startling aspect of the new device. It was expected the price would be much higher and it's clear that the competition doesn't know how to build a device sized like the iPad and remain competitive re price.

It's a brilliant move on Apple's part because undercutting Apple on price has long been an advantage that competitors have relied on. Where Apple has an edge, though, is that while competitors will lower price as production ramps up, allowing for economies of scale, Apple will keep their current pricing and instead make their device progressively more capable. For this to work, Apple's offering has to be a cut above but that's viable because Apple starts off a step or two ahead. As competitors scramble to take on what Apple is selling now, Apple is busy preparing the next model which will raise the bar yet again.

Already, though, by pricing the iPad aggressively, Apple is forcing competitors to cut corners to stay at least ballpark in price. So the iPad is easily ahead of what's coming in the first wave of iPad challengers, being the only one of the bunch with a 9.7-inch screen. By the time the competition can bring down price enough to compete, the iPad will be firmly established as a class-leading device.

I think also that since Apple has already been planning out the way this platform will develop - they have also been buying up the screens and the other components that make up the platform - items that have been remarked upon previously as impacting the market in some cases. This produces shortages in components, driving up component cost and delaying manufacture of competing devices. So it makes no sense for competitors to try and go toe-to-toe with the form factor - they can't enough parts to do it (setting aside all other arguments for the moment).

So they go after the next most logical form factor - already established by the Kindle and Nook technologies - the 7 inch. They are visited by all the other set-aside issues as well - no ecosystem, a half-baked ChromeOS, worse - an Android 3 variant already with a cautionary note from Google on it, Win7, QNIX/BB6, or Maemo. None of these are ready for prime time - at least in comparison to the iOS platform. All of which have some less robust touch system, and all the other issues around hardware build, etc. These are out there because iPad reportedly directly impacted netbook sales. We need to see the "real" numbers to know if that was the case, but early numbers support the idea.

What will be the result? Many people have been around an iPad already, so they will bring that experience to the testing of these new devices. If they are anything like the early iterations of Android (for example), the UI will be questionable, and performance nothing like the iPad, either in apps, battery life or useability. And let's remember also that Apple is a moving target what has been delivered to the masses is already old news to Apple. They are always moving forward with their development plans. The current iPad was merely a stake in the ground for the form-factor. All these other companies are doing is chasing Apple's wake.
post #76 of 77
Thinner? Anymore it'll be able to break like paper.

HP Omni 100-5100z, 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM; ASUS Transformer, 16GB, Android 4.0 ICS
Although I no longer own Apple products like I did before, I'll continue to post my opinions.

Reply

HP Omni 100-5100z, 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM; ASUS Transformer, 16GB, Android 4.0 ICS
Although I no longer own Apple products like I did before, I'll continue to post my opinions.

Reply
post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobility View Post

The lack of knowledge about USB in this forum is staggering.

Let's put aside for a minute that memory cards and USB connectivity is pretty much a thing of the past for mobile devices.

Let's purely analyze USB.
1> There are two types of units : hosts and devices. The 30 pin connector + USB A cable makes the iDevice just that, a device. Since the cable + 30 pin serves more functions (I mean a LOT MORE) than just USB connectivity, it makes total sense NOT to put a mini, micro or regular device-side USB connectors on there. Many other devices do this, it is nothing new and given that the same 30 pin connector is leveraged across 3 product lines, I'd say that's a lot of friggin hard work on the design side for all 3. So there, 30 pin it is, like it or not. (I like it, due to the increased functionality)

The whole point of wanting a standard USB connector is that you gain functionality over the 30 pin connector. There is simply a whole house full of devices that use the standard connector.
Quote:

2> What people seem to require here is a host port (like the kinds on your laptop) that you want to plug USB devices into. Like I hinted at before, memory cards and generic USB ports are not the greatest ideas right now, probably ever (read what follows later to see why). With the network and on board storage, Apple has a nice seamless, integrated solution (as always) that gets the job done with minimum hassle to the user.

You seem to want to limit the potential focus of the conversation to memory devices. Surely you realize that USB supports a far wider array of devices? Devices that all use a standard connector.

Even so USB memory devices are very handy to have.
Quote:

The biggest problem with USB is power. Someone only got half the story alluding to power earlier. USB hosts need to provide 5V and a minimum of 100mA of power (up to 500mA). Ignoring the MASSIVE size and pure ugliness of including a USB host on board (go look at the teardown of an iPad to see internal board size), this sort of power is just not available on a truly mobile device without giving up something else. It doesn't make any sense.

You start off talking about knowing USB but you don't know your electronics. USB has to supply at a minimum 100ma but the devices connected do not have to use that much current. In fact they can draw far less.

However what is the difference here between a USB external camera and an internal one? Your argument makes no sense what so ever because USB device by their very nature are not always connected. Thus a USB device only draws power when it is plugged in.
Quote:

Some of the more astute readers may point out that the 30-pin acts as both a device AND as a host (media connection kit). This is true, but by limiting the use case, they control what drivers need to be installed/HW needs to be supported and they also reduce the opportunity for prolonged power suckage, while still offering consumers what they would really need such a port for.

That is all well and good but it also limits the device drastically with respect to POTENTIAL usage outside of what Apple approves.
Quote:

I'll say it again, with the ample on board storage, and the rising ubiquity of networks, memory cards are relegated to a corner case users. The kind that still walk around with 5lb laptops. Sure, they'll beat their chests sore saying they're the power users, but they are corner case still, not the focus.

You are way to focused on on board usage, which isn't enough anyways.
Quote:

PS : USB 3.0 uses even more power for 10x the speed, very few devices and hosts out in the field and this will be even less widely adopted than USB 2.0 on mobile devices. Just in case someone piped up.

So? We aren't even talking about future devices here, though I think Apple will go USB3 soon. The desire is to simply use a wider range of USB devices of the type currently available.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPad
  • Goldman Sachs says Apple planning thinner iPad with camera, mini usb
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › Goldman Sachs says Apple planning thinner iPad with camera, mini usb