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GWB Announces New Homeland Security Plan

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Just starting now...watching it on NBC...I caught something bout consolidating the major agencies into one...sounds good so far.
post #2 of 51
Thread Starter 
Okay, they aren't getting consolidated. But we are getting the ~40 billion Homeland Security Agency...and a massive reform of the others. I've got no complaints...
post #3 of 51
Thread Starter 
Bah...I wish I wasn't trying to catch all this and organize it in my head.

Basically, It's going to be the Department of Homeland Security, and former governer Ridge has a permanent and more powerful posistion as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Defense (bah, Dan Rather is saying both Security and Defense, even they can't get their facts straight.) It's primary purpose is obviously to protect the homeland, protect the borders, fight against terrorism, prepare communities in the event of a terrorist attack, and to gather and share information. It will consolidate FEMA, the Coast Guard, the Border Patrol, the Secret Service, and several other related agences.

I hope I got most of it right this time...
post #4 of 51
Now we're safe!

post #5 of 51
Heil Bush and Herr Ridge!
post #6 of 51
Why would you have any problem with this? Please dissect and show me the problems as you see them.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #7 of 51
Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.
post #8 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by Rick1138:
<strong>Look I am just making fun of the title,it does sound reminiscent of the Nazi Germany,I mean the Fatherland,I am just making a joke,while such jokes still can be made.The truth is drunk drivers killed more than 10 times the number of people in the US than terrorists.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok, so it was a joke. However, it was not really a joke to you as evidenced by this past you make. Don't worry, some day I am sure your fears will be realized. The question is, will it be because of GWB or someone else. I will guarantee that it will be someone else.

And Drunk Drivers are dangerous as well. They should enforce laws that are designed to keep those people off the road.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #9 of 51
It's sort of a joke,but I see a consolidation of government powers that I think is scary.Thankfully it is a full cabinet postion,meaning that there will be congressional oversight.I wouldn't assume that the Bush government will respect our democratic system,originally Bush wanted the post not to be a cabinet position,so there would be no oversight.But of course all of this has been going on for a long time,it cuts across party lines-the ending Elian Gonzalez affair was a sad day for all Americans,when a legal dispute was settled at the barrel of a gun- I would like to point out that all of the appeals had not yet been exhausted at that point.Also,the COG project was originally formulated during the Carter administration.
post #10 of 51
The decision of Bush seems logical, the problem is that when you have many different services working independantly it does not work good.

Some who will argue that different independant services is good for democratia, others will argue that differences services will lead to competition between them and therefore a lack of cooperation.

The goal of a centralized minister is to improve the cooperation between the difference services. The problem is that it bring a new level of hierarchy , the more you add step in hierarchy the better you have a chance that a crucial information will not be communicated at the highest level : the level who decide.

.
In France for security : there is two corpses :
the policeman and the Gendarmes (which are military). The new reform took both corporations under the same minister in order to reinforce cooperation and diminish the rivaltry. In that case there isn' t a new level of hierarchy, the only difference with the precedent model is that there is only one minister in charge rather than 2.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>
post #11 of 51
As I understand it the problem was that discoveries made deep down in the agencies didn´t arrive at the top of them so actions could be taken. Much like something sub-concious doesn´t arrive to our concious level.

The cure is to make another "agency" to gather information from CIA and FBI? Isn´t that to cure the flaws of a bureaucracy by building another one on top of it instead of dealing with the initial problem?

I might have misunderstood something...
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #12 of 51
Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.

NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.

If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #13 of 51
I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).
post #14 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>I'd rather see a total reform of the FBI/CIA with massive reorgs. New equiptment and technology. The should consolidtae those two organizations and call it the Federal Inteligence Agency (FIA).</strong><hr></blockquote>


How about call them D&D...Dumb and Dumber?
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #15 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>Bush is not a Conservative at all. His response to everything is More Government...larger Government.

NoahJ it is never good to consolidate Authority. This is the foundation of a totalitarian Gov. One group accountable...one group to control...and into darkness....errr back on subject.

If I move **** from one corner to the other...does it cease to be **** ? No. Mueller and the rest of his pathetic cohorts will do no better under this new "Umbrella of Evil". It's a damn shame that all this is happening and not one person has been fired. I don't care how you shuffle them the problem is not the system but the people running it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I am a Bush supporter (please put the flame thrower away for now?) but I almost have to agree. I think he may be spending to much. Though, I think he is going to veto the terror package that just passed the senate...and with good reason. Too much pork! Too bad that we STILL do not have a line item veto.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #16 of 51
.

.
I heard they were going to call it the Knowledge Guard Bureau with a sub group, on the field, enforcement agency called the National Knowledge and Values Department

It wasn't until very late in drawing up the plans with the central bureau that someone noticed the ABBREVIATIONS <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> and decided that it might give the wrong impressions.
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.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #17 of 51
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

THAT has to be a joke.

But sometimes abbr. is very telling. Like MAD
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #18 of 51
What's the joke?

imean what could be wrong with-
KGB
or NKVD?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #19 of 51
You people are not smart.
post #20 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:
<strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry. I bow to your Phd.ness. I am not worthy to question your superiour post that cuts through with intelligent reasoning and make the rest of us look like stupid sheep.

Noone else can make a five word reply and put everybody else in amazement.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #21 of 51
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:
<strong>You people are not smart.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Overwhelm us with your superiour intelligence O great one!

Or, better than that, STFU, go off some place, and kill yourself. After that we will build a monument to your supreme intelligence and then procede to blow it apart with C4 after putting graffiti all over it.
post #22 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>

Sorry. I bow to your Phd.ness. I am not worthy to question your superiour post that are cuts through with intelligent reasoning and make the rest of us look like stupid sheep.

Noone else can make a five word reply and put everybody else in amazement.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #23 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>

Overwhelm us with your superiour intelligence O great one!

Or, better than that, STFU, go off some place, and kill yourself. After that we will build a monument to your supreme intelligence and then procede to blow it apart with C4 after putting graffiti all over it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

QED

How about this. Everyone go and fact check everything they've posted here and report back. Otherwise STFU.
post #24 of 51
Or, better than that, STFU, go off some place, and kill yourself. After that we will build a monument to your supreme intelligence and then procede to blow it apart with C4 after putting graffiti all over it.

OBL? WTF! OMG!
BTW, FOAD.

PS, HAND.
post #25 of 51
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>OBL? WTF! OMG!
BTW, FOAD.

PS, HAND.</strong><hr></blockquote>

HAND? That's a new one...
post #26 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:
<strong>

QED

How about this. Everyone go and fact check everything they've posted here and report back. Otherwise STFU.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #27 of 51
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:
<strong>

QED

How about this. Everyone go and fact check everything they've posted here and report back. Otherwise STFU.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Errm....I was trying to type out what I heard, post it here, and listen to the TV at the same time. Then I criticized you for acting like the stuck-up jackass that you are. Can't you just admit that you aren't the smartest God damned person in the world, Dr. Scott? Calling us all stupid isn't going to get your popularity up much past oh, say, bin Laden.
post #28 of 51
"I used to drink whiskey, but I forget."

-Billy Joe Shaver
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #29 of 51
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>

HAND? That's a new one...</strong><hr></blockquote>

NM...I figured it out. What blatant sarcasm you have.
post #30 of 51
HAND is have a nice day!
post #31 of 51
They could also call it the Federal Security Bureau.
post #32 of 51
[quote] from scott and his phd(?!?!):
"fact check " <hr></blockquote>

You mean it wasn't going to be the Knowledge Guard Bureau :confused:

hmmm?!? maybe it was the Force for American Security Counter-Intelligence & Safety vz Terrorist Squad . .
. with the in-field- being the Gaurdians Of Order, National Squad ...ehem?!?!

i seem to remember that these were also unpopular names as well . . . but apparently some in the administration really felt that, reading between the lines, these names revealed the true 'essence' of the new idea of der Hiemat . . .ehem.. I mean, the Homeland security administtration ....
.
.
.

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #33 of 51
double post

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #34 of 51
I'm not talking about the name.
post #35 of 51
. . .I don't know... what do you think of thse names though Scott . . . do you think they would be fitting? or could be?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #36 of 51
I don't think it matters just so long as the job is done right. But we all "know" Ashcroft is a hood wearin' bigot and Bu$h is the puppet of Big Oil (TM) and this is all just the start of the American SS. So what does it matter what it's called while I hyperventilate in an effort to brand every Bush idea as some secret move to remove our rights?

[ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: scott_h_phd ]</p>
post #37 of 51
[quote]Originally posted by scott_h_phd:
<strong>I don't think it matters just so long as the job is done right. But we all "know" Ashcroft is a hook wearin' bigot and BuSh is the puppet of Big Oil (TM) and this is all just the start of the American SS. So what does it matter what it's called while I hyperventilate in an effort to brand every Bush idea as some secret move to remove our rights?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am beginning to like you more and more. Hook wearin bigot......LOL. Yeah, and Adolf Bush........
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #38 of 51
GWB is doing a fine job! More guts than his old man. I could still take him though.
Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!
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Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!
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post #39 of 51
Nurse? What is the president doing out of his bed?
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
Reply
post #40 of 51
I'm up and about, laddie. I've just been resting up. Now, its time to open up a can o' whoop ass on Osama. Prepare my ship.
Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!
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Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!
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