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Rep. Grayson calls opponent "Taliban."

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...an-dan-ad.html


Fortunately, the ad was condemned by members of both parties. Grayson is the guy who, during the healthcare "debate," said that he apologized to the "dead and the dying" for not getting healthcare rammed through already, and that the Republicans wanted sick people to "die quickly."

This ad backfired in stunning fashion. Dan Webster raised $70,000 since the ad's premiere last week. He has filed (or is considering filing) a slander suit.

What's wrong with the ad? Not just comparing Webster to a religious zealots bent on destroying the county, believe it or not. In the ad, Grayson takes a speech Webster gave where he talks about men picking bible verses to write down and live by. He specifically says "[don't pick ones dealing with wives submitting to husbands.]" But Grayson's ad flips that context completely, accusing Webster of wanting to stop women from divorcing abusive husbands, looping the "submit to me" Webster quote over and over. Just watch the ad.

The best part: After being nearly universally condemned for the ad, Grayson is sticking by the ad, claiming that Webster is associated with a group that opposes "women's rights!"

I can honestly say that 1) Grayson just guaranteed his defeat and 2) This is honestly the most disgusting and dishonest ad I've ever seen. I am not exaggerating. I cannot think of one that even comes close to essentially calling traitor who hates women and wants to impost radical fundamentalism on the United States.

Your thoughts?
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post #2 of 28
Some immediate thoughts:

It does seem that this Webster has issues with women. And it seems he DOES have links with a chilling extremist group.

The group run by evangelist Bill Gothard is representative of the extremist Christian Reconstructionism movement.

This movement seems to believe in many motifs that ARE indistinguishable - or perhaps worse - than those of the Taleban. from the above link:

Quote:
Epitomizing the Reconstructionist idea of Biblical "warfare" is the centrality of capital punishment under Biblical Law. Doctrinal leaders (notably Rushdoony, North, and Bahnsen) call for the death penalty for a wide range of crimes in addition to such contemporary capital crimes as rape, kidnapping, and murder. Death is also the punishment for apostasy (abandonment of the faith), heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, "sodomy or homosexuality," incest, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and, in the case of women, "unchastity before marriage."

The Biblically approved methods of execution include burning (at the stake for example), stoning, hanging, and "the sword." Gary North, the self-described economist of Reconstructionism, prefers stoning because, among other things, stones are cheap, plentiful, and convenient. Punishments for non-capital crimes generally involve whipping, restitution in the form of indentured servitude, or slavery. Prisons would likely be only temporary holding tanks, prior to imposition of the actual sentence.

My bold...these are pure Taleban beliefs and here shown to be held by the Dominionist leaders Rushdoony, North and Bahnsen.

Webster himself is more aligned to Bill Gothard who admittedly fell out with Rushdoony the founder - btw, Rushdoony is a holocaust denier - but both men are in agreement on bring Biblical law to the US - in fact, Rushdoony is far MORE liberal than Webster's mentor!!!

Quote:

“[T]he divide between Gothard and Rushdoony on divorce was a deep and abiding one. Gothard proposed using Rushdoony’s Institutes of Biblical Law as a resource for his massive ministry; the sheer volume of the resulting sales would have made Rushdoony both rich and famous. Gothard’s condition for moving forward on this was letter-simple: Rushdoony merely needed to remove the section on divorce from his book, and the highly profitable deal would be sealed.

Rushdoony refused the offer.”

So, while Gothard was categorically opposed to divorce, Rushdoony, a virulently racist Holocaust denier who espoused Geocentrism, was a little more liberal on divorce. In other words, the two men were otherwise in substantial agreement – except for the sticking point of divorce, they both agreed that Rushdoony’s vision for Biblical law should be imposed upon America.

That vision included instituting stoning as a form of capital punishment for rape, kidnapping, murder, heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, “sodomy or homosexuality,” incest, striking a parent, extreme juvenile delinquency, and “unchastity before marriage.”


Daniel Webster’s association with Bill Gothard’s Institute For Basic Life Training has continued into the present, and a speech Webster made at a Nashville IBLP conference in 2009 has now become a source of controversy due to a new Alan Grayson campaign ad. Grayson is currently taking a media drubbing because of an ad campaign ad that calls Grayson’s political opponent, Republican Daniel Webster, “Taliban Dan.”


Link
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #3 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...an-dan-ad.html


Fortunately, the ad was condemned by members of both parties. Grayson is the guy who, during the healthcare "debate," said that he apologized to the "dead and the dying" for not getting healthcare rammed through already, and that the Republicans wanted sick people to "die quickly."

This ad backfired in stunning fashion. Dan Webster raised $70,000 since the ad's premiere last week. He has filed (or is considering filing) a slander suit.

What's wrong with the ad? Not just comparing Webster to a religious zealots bent on destroying the county, believe it or not. In the ad, Grayson takes a speech Webster gave where he talks about men picking bible verses to write down and live by. He specifically says "[don't pick ones dealing with wives submitting to husbands.]" But Grayson's ad flips that context completely, accusing Webster of wanting to stop women from divorcing abusive husbands, looping the "submit to me" Webster quote over and over. Just watch the ad.

The best part: After being nearly universally condemned for the ad, Grayson is sticking by the ad, claiming that Webster is associated with a group that opposes "women's rights!"

I can honestly say that 1) Grayson just guaranteed his defeat and 2) This is honestly the most disgusting and dishonest ad I've ever seen. I am not exaggerating. I cannot think of one that even comes close to essentially calling traitor who hates women and wants to impost radical fundamentalism on the United States.

Your thoughts?

First off: The ad starts on a bogus premise, that "radical religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan want to take away our (America's) freedoms". This is the influence of unadulterated neocon hogwash and weasel words: Afghan fundamentalists are enmeshed in local issues and always will be. The war in Afghanistan was started for reasons which had NOTHING to do with religious fundamentalism.

My guess is that the ad has frayed some nerves because it exposes some of the gnarlier aspects of conservative fundamentalism which have infested US Christianity in recent decades with messages that reek of control, manipulation, fear, intolerance, bigotry, and even downright hatred. The founder of the Christian faith spent most of his last 3 years railing against the "values" that characterize so much of US right-wing "Christianity".

Yes, the truth can hurt.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #4 of 28
I think, in all seriousness, if you're going to argue that your moderate centre-left President is a "socialist" or "a Marxist", you don't get to fucking whine when someone calls one of your candidates running on a Tea Party conservative ticket a violent religious fundamentalist.

post #5 of 28
Grayson is one of the only congressmen trying to protect the taxpayers from Goldman Sachs and the rest of the criminal looters. So he was doomed anyway.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #6 of 28
Quote:
That vision included instituting stoning as a form of capital punishment for rape, kidnapping, murder, heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, “sodomy or homosexuality,” incest, striking a parent, extreme juvenile delinquency, and “unchastity before marriage.”

Ahhh, finally someone who cares about our planet. Do we have enough stones in the US to stone everyone to death who committed "unchastity before marriage.”?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I think, in all seriousness, if you're going to argue that your moderate centre-left President is a "socialist" or "a Marxist", you don't get to fucking whine when someone calls one of your candidates running on a Tea Party conservative ticket a violent religious fundamentalist.


I think, in all seriousness, if you're going to argue that someone is a violent religious fundamentalist, you might want to have, you know, actual evidence of their violence.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #8 of 28
You'll find that Jon Stewart ripped Grayson a new one last night. Grayson should not be borrowing plays from the Republican campaign playbook. He intentionally quoted his opponent compleltely out of context, and that's really REALLY fucked up. Just because Republicans have done this again and again for years and years doesn't mean Democrats should stoop to that level. If I were in his district, I'd be writing some very angry letters right about now.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #9 of 28
It's been happening on both ends of the political spectrum for years and years. And no, that certainly doesn't make it right or acceptable.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #10 of 28
Count the times it has been used in recent memory by each party and I guarantee that you will find that the party of fear, distortion, and bullshit is overwhelmingly the Republican party.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Count the times it has been used in recent memory by each party and I guarantee that you will find that the party of fear, distortion, and bullshit is overwhelmingly the Republican party.

Doubtful. I'm getting pretty regular mailings (daily) from Democratic candidates and the local Democratic party absolutely demonizing one particular republican or conservative candidate, often quoting things out of context and grossly mis-representing his positions and using general fear and demagoguery.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #12 of 28
It would be nice if candidates actually campaigned on their own merits rather than on this despicable slander and attacks on their opponents.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #13 of 28
So, where was this thread when Obama was being demonized by the right for words blatantly taken out of context?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #14 of 28
Can you provide specific examples, BR?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #15 of 28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3hMODMyed8

Hannity is telling people to go vote Republican. That counts.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Doubtful. I'm getting pretty regular mailings (daily) from Democratic candidates and the local Democratic party absolutely demonizing one particular republican or conservative candidate, often quoting things out of context and grossly mis-representing his positions and using general fear and demagoguery.

That is fantastic!!

Why do I not get these...??
I give thousands of $$.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Can you provide specific examples, BR?

LMAO. That's your funnest one-liner yet!
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Some immediate thoughts:

It does seem that this Webster has issues with women. And it seems he DOES have links with a chilling extremist group.

The group run by evangelist Bill Gothard is representative of the extremist Christian Reconstructionism movement.

This movement seems to believe in many motifs that ARE indistinguishable - or perhaps worse - than those of the Taleban. from the above link:



My bold...these are pure Taleban beliefs and here shown to be held by the Dominionist leaders Rushdoony, North and Bahnsen.

Webster himself is more aligned to Bill Gothard who admittedly fell out with Rushdoony the founder - btw, Rushdoony is a holocaust denier - but both men are in agreement on bring Biblical law to the US - in fact, Rushdoony is far MORE liberal than Webster's mentor!!!




Link

Who do you think are scarier, Christians or Muslims? Great post by the way!
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Who do you think are scarier, Christians or Muslims? Great post by the way!

Neither, I don't accept that the above are Christians or that terrorists who might want to kill me are Muslims.

Religion is about spirituality (or should be) and people developing themselves spiritually are no threat to anyone. Conversely, people who are threats are not spiritual.

But I suppose it depends on context. If I was in an Islamist attack - or at risk of one - then that would be scarier because my life would be at risk.

Having people empowered to enact oppressive legislation without being questioned because it is the 'western tradition' is also pretty scary in the long run and in a different way.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Neither, I don't accept that the above are Christians or that terrorists who might want to kill me are Muslims.

Religion is about spirituality (or should be) and people developing themselves spiritually are no threat to anyone. Conversely, people who are threats are not spiritual.

But I suppose it depends on context. If I was in an Islamist attack - or at risk of one - then that would be scarier because my life would be at risk.

Having people empowered to enact oppressive legislation without being questioned because it is the 'western tradition' is also pretty scary in the long run and in a different way.

Do you think there are more extremist Christians than extremist Muslims?
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Do you think there are more extremist Christians than extremist Muslims?

Don't know. Depends on how you define 'extremist' doesn't it?

I think there are probably more Islamic fundamentalists and literalists than Christian ones (I don't mean terrorists necessarily) - probably this is because Chrisianity is assimilated into Western democracies. Perhaps education has something to do with it too as Islamic States are often in third world environments. Also Christianity has a 500 year head start being older - Islam is where Christianity was 500 years ago and in 500 years time will be where Christianity is now.

Difficult to say these things though without giving ammo to the less-tolerant amongst us but there it is.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Don't know. Depends on how you define 'extremist' doesn't it?

I think there are probably more Islamic fundamentalists and literalists than Christian ones (I don't mean terrorists necessarily) - probably this is because Chrisianity is assimilated into Western democracies. Perhaps education has something to do with it too as Islamic States are often in third world environments. Also Christianity has a 500 year head start being older - Islam is where Christianity was 500 years ago and in 500 years time will be where Christianity is now.

Difficult to say these things though without giving ammo to the less-tolerant amongst us but there it is.

Thanks seg.

It seems there's a watering down of religion as time passes. Or maybe that's why we have religion, to water things down...so we act according to a rulebook rather than our own rules. Sorry if I've gone off topic a little, but it angers me that people follow religion in that way.

And by watering down in part I just mean "removed".
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Thanks seg.

It seems there's a watering down of religion as time passes. Or maybe that's why we have religion, to water things down...so we act according to a rulebook rather than our own rules. Sorry if I've gone off topic a little, but it angers me that people follow religion in that way.

And by watering down in part I just mran "removed".

Yes...it seems like that. But who knows? Hopefully humanity will evolve to a more enlightened state and maybe religion will evolve too...if it can't well...it shouldn't be kept going I guess.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes...it seems like that. But who knows? Hopefully humanity will evolve to a more enlightened state and maybe religion will evolve too...if it can't well...it shouldn't be kept going I guess.

I think the downfall of religions will simply be making people understand why they believe what they believe.
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #25 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Some immediate thoughts:

It does seem that this Webster has issues with women.

Since Grayson has -20 favorability rating with women, it would seem that HE has the issues.

Quote:
And it seems he DOES have links with a chilling extremist group.

The group run by evangelist Bill Gothard is representative of the extremist Christian Reconstructionism movement.

This movement seems to believe in many motifs that ARE indistinguishable - or perhaps worse - than those of the Taleban. from the above link:



My bold...these are pure Taleban beliefs and here shown to be held by the Dominionist leaders Rushdoony, North and Bahnsen.

Webster himself is more aligned to Bill Gothard who admittedly fell out with Rushdoony the founder - btw, Rushdoony is a holocaust denier - but both men are in agreement on bring Biblical law to the US - in fact, Rushdoony is far MORE liberal than Webster's mentor!!!




Link

Dude...then run an ad that calls him out on his "ties" to that group. I'm not defending the guy...I'm attacking the ad and calling Grayson a douche for a whole host of reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

First off: The ad starts on a bogus premise, that "radical religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan want to take away our (America's) freedoms". This is the influence of unadulterated neocon hogwash and weasel words: Afghan fundamentalists are enmeshed in local issues and always will be. The war in Afghanistan was started for reasons which had NOTHING to do with religious fundamentalism.

My guess is that the ad has frayed some nerves because it exposes some of the gnarlier aspects of conservative fundamentalism which have infested US Christianity in recent decades with messages that reek of control, manipulation, fear, intolerance, bigotry, and even downright hatred. The founder of the Christian faith spent most of his last 3 years railing against the "values" that characterize so much of US right-wing "Christianity".

Yes, the truth can hurt.

Pardon the pun, but Jesus Christ! Can we please stay on topic and not get into your conspiracy bullshit again?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

I think, in all seriousness, if you're going to argue that your moderate centre-left President is a "socialist" or "a Marxist", you don't get to fucking whine when someone calls one of your candidates running on a Tea Party conservative ticket a violent religious fundamentalist.


Hmmm. I suppose we should ignore all of the statements of said "moderate" that were and are made in support of socialism?



Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Grayson is one of the only congressmen trying to protect the taxpayers from Goldman Sachs and the rest of the criminal looters. So he was doomed anyway.

Yes..criminals. "One man, betrayed by his country....."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You'll find that Jon Stewart ripped Grayson a new one last night. Grayson should not be borrowing plays from the Republican campaign playbook. He intentionally quoted his opponent compleltely out of context, and that's really REALLY fucked up. Just because Republicans have done this again and again for years and years doesn't mean Democrats should stoop to that level. If I were in his district, I'd be writing some very angry letters right about now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's been happening on both ends of the political spectrum for years and years. And no, that certainly doesn't make it right or acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Count the times it has been used in recent memory by each party and I guarantee that you will find that the party of fear, distortion, and bullshit is overwhelmingly the Republican party.


If you can find an example of something that egregious, please post it. I've never seen anything like it. Perhaps the Dem ad about black churches burning if [I forget which Republican] gets elected?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #26 of 28
Alan Grayson generally is a good politician. A lot of times he gets carried away with his big mouth.he has balls and sheer guts which truthfully Obama needs to win the voters in 2012.This time Grayson screwed up with this ad. It is not good on his part at all.
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Alan Grayson generally is a good politician.

Why are you making such a fundamentally flawed assessment? Grayson's political antics are well known, his grandstanding in the House, his nasty campaign tactics, and no less a progressive media personality than CNN's Anderson Cooper condemned Grayson's smear:

Anderson Cooper Condemns Grayson's Political Smear
http://thoroughlyandersoncooper.blog...sons-lies.html

Grayson represents the very worst kind of politician, bad for his district, bad for voters, and bad for the nation. There is nothing "good" about Grayson and with any luck he will lose his re-election when all the Democrats are thrown out of office this fall..

Update: Grayson is behind his opponent Republican Daniel Webster in polling ... GOOD!
post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

Alan Grayson generally is a good politician. A lot of times he gets carried away with his big mouth.he has balls and sheer guts which truthfully Obama needs to win the voters in 2012.This time Grayson screwed up with this ad. It is not good on his part at all.

I think the ad does not go far enough. We need to start calling out the fascists on the right. We need to undermine the corporate powers of Bush, Cheney, Koch, Murdoch, Boehner and co. They ARE in bed with the Saudi Wahabis. Saddam didn't buy into it so he had to go he was on track to undermine oil prices. What's a few 100,000 people dead if you can make a few more billion and all ammunition is paid for by US middle class tax payers?

Executing a handful of billionaires is much cheaper than stoning people with chastity problems. It will help bring the budget under control.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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