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Atheists and Agnostics know most about religion..

post #1 of 76
Thread Starter 
What does this study tell us?

Quote:
A new survey of Americans' knowledge of religion found that atheists, agnostics, Jews and Mormons outperformed Protestants and Roman Catholics in answering questions about major religions, while many respondents could not correctly give the most basic tenets of their own faiths.

Apparently more than half of Protestants could not identify Martin Luther as the person who inspired the Protestant Reformation...ok....but about four in 10 Jews did not know that Maimonides, one of the greatest rabbis and intellectuals in history, was Jewish.

But there's more:

Quote:
Respondents to the survey were asked 32 questions with a range of difficulty, including whether they could name the Islamic holy book and the first book of the Bible, or say what century the Mormon religion was founded. On average, participants in the survey answered correctly overall for half of the survey questions.

Atheists and agnostics scored highest, with an average of 21 correct answers, while Jews and Mormons followed with about 20 accurate responses. Protestants overall averaged 16 correct answers, while Catholics followed with a score of about 15.

Forty-five percent of Roman Catholics who participated in the study didn't know that, according to church teaching, the bread and wine used in Holy Communion is not just a symbol, but becomes the body and blood of Christ.

Link
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #2 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

What does this study tell us?
Link

I found these points interesting:

Quote:
Not surprisingly, those who said they attended worship at least once a week and considered religion important in their lives often performed better on the overall survey. However, level of education was the best predictor of religious knowledge. The top-performing groups on the survey still came out ahead even when controlling for how much schooling they had completed.

Quote:
Jews, along with atheists and agnostics, knew the most about other faiths, such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism.

Along with the above, are these groups more tolerant of people of other religions?

Quote:
The study also found that many Americans don't understand constitutional restrictions on religion in public schools. While a majority know that public school teachers cannot lead classes in prayer, less than a quarter know that the U.S. Supreme Court has clearly stated that teachers can read from the Bible as an example of literature.

"Many Americans think the constitutional restrictions on religion in public schools are tighter than they really are," Pew researchers wrote.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #3 of 76
Shocking.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #4 of 76
This reminds me of the TeaBagger results showing how many of them think Obama is a Muslim, the devil etc. In that poll too there was a big difference made by the level of their education. Are Athiest's and Agnostics more formally educated that the other groups? If not then WTF?!!
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #5 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Shocking.

That Mormons know as much about religion as you do?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #6 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

What does this study tell us?

That the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life enjoys castigating the faithful... little else...
post #7 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

That the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life enjoys castigating the faithful... little else...

Faithful is the problem. Having faith means accepting without questioning.
I was thought the Lutheran faith but at age 13 I started think that this must be a crock if shit. I was expelled from religious study after my confirmation.
I went to every church and temple I could find for a while. That's how I became convinced atheism saves.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #8 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Shocking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

That Mormons know as much about religion as you do?

First I don't know whether BR is an agnostic, atheist or a Jew, but the report stated:

Quote:
A new survey of Americans' knowledge of religion found that atheists, agnostics, Jews and Mormons outperformed Protestants and Roman Catholics in answering questions about major religions, while many respondents could not correctly give the most basic tenets of their own faiths.

However Atheists and agnostics scored highest, with an average of 21 correct answers, while Jews and Mormons followed with about 20 accurate responses.

So if BR is an agnostic or an atheist, he knows a little more about religion than a Mormon, if BR is Jewish then that ties with the Mormons.

While Mormons do better on questions about Christianity they, according to the report seem to know less than agnostics, atheists and Jews so your statement isn't correct:

Quote:
On questions about Christianity, Mormons scored the highest, with an average of about eight correct answers out of 12, followed by white evangelicals, with an average of just over seven correct answers. Jews, along with atheists and agnostics, knew the most about other faiths, such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #9 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I was expelled from religious study after my confirmation.
..

So because your faith was weak you blame others? Wow that's pretty pathetic... Don't believe in God? Fine... that's your choice... Don't demean others that do....
post #10 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

First I don't know whether BR is an agnostic, atheist or a Jew, but the report stated:



So if BR is an agnostic or an atheist, he knows a little more about religion than a Mormon, if BR is Jewish then that ties with the Mormons.

While Mormons do better on questions about Christianity they, according to the report seem to know less than agnostics, atheists and Jews so your statement isn't correct:

I was raised Jewish but never bought in. From the time I could think critically, I was an atheist.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #11 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I was raised Jewish but never bought in. From the time I could think critically, I was an atheist.

I think most of us who allowed ourselves to think critically became atheists.
post #12 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I think most of us who allowed ourselves to think critically became atheists.

I think rather that most of us who allowed ourselves to think critically rejected organized religion and saw the myths and folklore for what they are.

Getting from there to atheism requires something else which is not quite critical thinking.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #13 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Getting from there to atheism requires something else which is not quite critical thinking.

No different than deciding not to believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, one might presume.
post #14 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No different than deciding not to believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, one might presume.

Not at all. You see this is a classical example of the drop-off point I was talking about.

Thinking critically I can research the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and God and I see key differences between the three.

I can for example research the origin of Santa Claus and I find he was originally based on the historical figure of Basil of Caesarea. I can further discover that he did not exist before the Christian era and assimilated elements of German folklore.

I then realize that no trace of him has ever been found at the North Pole and that no-one has claimed to have encountered him.

Form that I draw my own conclusions: that he is a human construct based on a historical figure.

Similarly with the Tooth Fairy I can critically assume that although fairies may exist or have existed (something I do in fact believe in a certain form) in this case I see it is a Celtic legend that seems unique to western cultures and which again, is perpetuated by parents as a tradition in relation to their children.

Again, there is no evidence of someone actually BELIEVING it occurs other than the children who are the 'victims' of their parents 'knowing 'hoax'.

God is a very different matter though religion may not be. For sure many priests are 'the parents' hoaxing the 'children' who haplessly believe a myth...for sure.

But my point is that this does not in itself lead to a conclusion that God does not exist in the same way.

It may put organized religion in the same basket as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy but it can't put God there. Not if one wants to think critically.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #15 of 76
Anyway, I contend that it is not, as you state:

Blind Belief>Blindly Religious
Critical Thinking>"Enlightened Spiritual"
Something Beyond Critical Thinking>Atheist

But:

A: Blind Belief>Blindly Religious
B: Critical Thinking>Atheist
C: Something Beyond Critical Thinking>"Enlightened Spiritual"

If you went from A to C without B, then you never gave up part of that blind belief.

In any case, if you believe you are C, then you're still assuming there's a God, even without any measurable or observable evidence that there is. Even if you personally have experienced evidence of God, there are clearly alternative physical, psychological and physiological explanations for your experience. Until you can put ten learned people (scientists) in a room and say "I can prove God exists to you" and then give them your proof, which they will corroborate, your personal experience is merely hearsay. In other words, it does not stand up to the test of "critical thinking".
post #16 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Anyway, I contend that it is not, as you state:

Blind Belief>Blindly Religious
Critical Thinking>"Enlightened Spiritual"
Something Beyond Critical Thinking>Atheist

But:

A: Blind Belief>Blindly Religious
B: Critical Thinking>Atheist
C: Something Beyond Critical Thinking>"Enlightened Spiritual"

If you went from A to C without B, then you never gave up part of that blind belief.

But I would say that personally - and I can only speak for myself - I regard myself as being at C without going through B in your second example which I accept.

I fully accept that you are there too and have arrived by a different means.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #17 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Anyway, I contend that it is not, as you state:

Blind Belief>Blindly Religious
Critical Thinking>"Enlightened Spiritual"
Something Beyond Critical Thinking>Atheist

But:

A: Blind Belief>Blindly Religious
B: Critical Thinking>Atheist
C: Something Beyond Critical Thinking>"Enlightened Spiritual"

If you went from A to C without B, then you never gave up part of that blind belief.

In any case, if you believe you are C, then you're still assuming there's a God, even without any measurable or observable evidence that there is. Even if you personally have experienced evidence of God, there are clearly alternative physical, psychological and physiological explanations for your experience. Until you can put ten learned people (scientists) in a room and say "I can prove God exists to you" and then give them your proof, which they will corroborate, your personal experience is merely hearsay. I.e. it does not stand up to the test of "critical thinking".

To me God is just a word for the numinous.

I fully accept that far more atheists experience it than religious people...in fact, when I talk to atheist friends about such experiences they all seem to have had them but would not call them God. Fair enough...the interesting thing is that when I mention it to religious people they very rarely know what I'm talking about.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #18 of 76
Numinous just has too many syllables...and it sounds like "new" and we know how much religious people hate new things. Please, please call the numinous just that. Don't invoke that horrible three letter word with baggage spanning to prehistory. Carl Sagan had numinous experiences which he wrote about. I have had mine as well. It has nothing to do with that vulgar three letter word. And there is nothing mutually exclusive about atheism and the numinous. Nothing at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie in Contact by Carl Sagan

So, I think the bureaucratic religions try to institutionalize your perception of the numinous instead of providing the means so you can perceive the numinous directly--like looking through a six-inch telescope. If sensing the numinous is at the heart of religion, who's more religious would you say--the people who follow the bureaucratic religions or the people who teach themselves science?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #19 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Numinous just has too many syllables...and it sounds like "new" and we know how much religious people hate new things. Please, please call the numinous just that. Don't invoke that horrible three letter word with baggage spanning to prehistory. Carl Sagan had numinous experiences which he wrote about. I have had mine as well. It has nothing to do with that vulgar three letter word. And there is nothing mutually exclusive about atheism and the numinous. Nothing at all.

How about 'mystical' ?

Edit: by the way what you said and quoted agrees 100% with what I said and posted yet it sounds like you are countering it....but logically you can't be.

Maybe you just find it hard when we're in agreement
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #20 of 76
Why not numinous? Why bring any of that superstitious bullshit baggage into the picture? There are things that fill us with awe. No god necessary. No magic necessary. No superstition necessary.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #21 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Why not numinous? Why bring any of that superstitious bullshit baggage into the picture? There are things that fill us with awe. No god necessary. No magic necessary. No superstition necessary.

I do use numinous most of the time. Just not so much here because probably only you and me and Tonton would understand it (hahah).

But I don't see God in the way you do or the way Fundies do so there is no difference for me. I can use inter-changeably.

Also it is linked because I am convinced that the original founders of religions (such as Jesus, Buddha, Moses or Muhammad) had an experience and that was an experience of the numinous.

That is to say I disagree with the idea that they 'made it all up'. That would make Jesus (say) a liar whereas it is obvious from his sayings he was a great thinker and an enlightened person.

So I am deferring to them - the Church and organized religions are the liars - when they say 'God' they do not have an experience of God, the Numinous or anything else 9 times out of 10.

But why does that mean the founder - Jesus - did not? And he used the word 'God' so that is good enough for me.

Why discard something because a moron misunderstands and corrupts it? That's their problem...otherwise you might as well get all your info on Islam from Camp David. It's the same thing.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #22 of 76
Those thinkers used the word "god" because they didn't have the level of science and understanding of the universe that we have now. It is merely a product of the cultures and time periods in which they each lived. A lot of scientists in the 1500s through the 1700s, when the cosmos was rapidly being demystified, invoked the word of god as well. Again, they had incomplete information--the gaps, though diminishing, were still quite large. The use of the word "god" doesn't lessen all of their accomplishments, the thinkers nor the scientists. At the same time, their good ideas don't rely upon the use of the word or concept of god to have merit, either.

Discard it not because idiots have hijacked it. Discard it because it was never substantiated in the first place and has no bearing on the goodness of what your favorite thinkers said.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #23 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Those thinkers used the word "god" because they didn't have the level of science and understanding of the universe that we have now. It is merely a product of the cultures and time periods in which they each lived. A lot of scientists in the 1500s through the 1700s, when the cosmos was rapidly being demystified, invoked the word of god as well. Again, they had incomplete information--the gaps, though diminishing, were still quite large. The use of the word "god" doesn't lessen all of their accomplishments, the thinkers nor the scientists. At the same time, their good ideas don't rely upon the use of the word or concept of god to have merit, either.

Discard it not because idiots have hijacked it. Discard it because it was never substantiated in the first place and has no bearing on the goodness of what your favorite thinkers said.

True -but it depends on how you want to drag the 'God Squad' kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

THEY are still living in the time you describe. They don't know anything about science or the modern world in the main...let alone being able to assimilate the concept of the Numinous.

If you want to connect with them you have to say 'God' to show them their 'God' is the Numinous. If you don't they'll think you are talking about Satan or something.

Of course there is no reason to try to bring them up to speed if you don't want - may not even be possible....but personally I think the way forward is to engage them and 'convert' them by reason rather than opposition. Remember, a lot of these people deal in fear and hate and so if they feel 'opposed' it could easily turn to violence. Often does.

Edit: I want to say something else too - I do think the Numinous has some of the characteristics often ascribed to 'God' in as much as it makes one a better person.

If you were new to these boards and read all of our posts but without knowing the religious or atheist positions of everyone - if you had to make a list of 'Christians' and 'Anti-Christians' based purely on how people are behaving here and their expressed views you would - without a shadow of doubt - have mainly atheists under the 'Christian' heading and some of the notorious 'Christian' posters under the 'anti-Christian' one....purely based on their behaviour, degree of tolerance, compassion or lack of, hate-speech etc.

This tells me that Atheists have often achieved the level of humanism (for want of a better word) that Jesus and others were trying to promote.

So religion is something else. It has nothing to do with God. It has nothing to do with spirituality. It has nothing to do with Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad. And it has nothing to do with the Numinous.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #24 of 76
You can take the mini survey yourself.

http://features.pewforum.org/quiz/us...ous-knowledge/


I got 13 out of 15
post #25 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

You can take the mini survey yourself.

http://features.pewforum.org/quiz/us...ous-knowledge/


I got 13 out of 15

I did too, luckily. I thought the Jewish Sabbath started on Saturday not Friday and Pakistan was mostly Hindu when it's mostly muslim. I guessed another, new one option was wrong, so really scored 12. If I can get 12 right then that's pretty worrying if the average scores are lower!
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #26 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I did too, luckily. I thought the Jewish Sabbath started on Saturday not Friday and Pakistan was mostly Hindu when it's mostly muslim. I guessed another, new one option was wrong, so really scored 12. If I can get 12 right then that's pretty worrying if the average scores are lower!

Did you know the Jonathan Edwards one on the last question?????
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #27 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Did you know the Jonathan Edwards one on the last question?????

No that's the one I guessed, I figured Billy Graham wouldn't be right. Edit- I also guessed, correctly, the Jobs one. So I really got 11 out of 15.

I just took this test for a friend who's an athiest English woman here in Scotland. She got all of them right except the last one which she went with Billy Graham.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #28 of 76
The only one I straight up guess I got wrong. Must have been the last one. Also who knew Catholics teach that the sacrament is the body of christ?
post #29 of 76
Question for religious people here: have you read the entire book of your faith? And how about those books NOT included in your text (e.g. the King James bible)? I'm reading the King James Bible. Halfway through. It's surprising that I recognize sometimes huge concepts that drive the religious right are based off of a paragraph or two. And then there are wide swaths of text that don't seem to be paid attention to. Also, there are so many inconsistencies and downright goofiness. Even if it's God's word it was WRITTEN DOWN on paper (papyrus?) by Man, and of course translated numerous times. Guess what, Man is stupid. Why would people think the Bible is infallible? That's like assuming a book won't have any typos. Anyhow this is a fun experiment. Yes, I'm seriously considering every concept, trying to see meaning in the world. Perhaps I'll go to church a few times. But my main interest is in learning how religious people see the world, and how they connect it to their faith. If the Bible is even somewhat historical, I consider myself a big fan of Jesus. But I'm not into the hokey church crap particularly of the modern kind.

What would Jesus do today? I think he'd be a liberal environmentalist. He'd be tipping the tables again, this time on Wallstreet and in big corporate megachurches that fund the Republicans and Wallstreet. He was intensely liberal, all about spreading the wealth. It is just bizarre that most religious people don't know anything about their religion and live directly in contrast to most of the teaching of the religion. Christians have guns, are ready to shoot to kill, vote for war, horde money to the themselves, and destroy the environment. And many prominent religious leaders and Republicans are gay pedophiles or are stealing money while cheating on their wives. How Christ-like?
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #30 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

What does this study tell us?

It tells us that when a poll is funded by dirty oil money, but you like the results, you won't question them, but if the dirty oil money funded polls or research with which you disagree, then they are greedy despoilers who are killing the planet and shouldn't be trusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

This reminds me of the TeaBagger results showing how many of them think Obama is a Muslim, the devil etc. In that poll too there was a big difference made by the level of their education. Are Athiest's and Agnostics more formally educated that the other groups? If not then WTF?!!

That was a Research2000 poll. The entire polling firm was fired by DailyKos for making shit up.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


So religion is something else. It has nothing to do with God. It has nothing to do with spirituality. It has nothing to do with Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad. And it has nothing to do with the Numinous.

Right. If Jesus came back tomorrow, he'd probably be like wow, Christianity has gone way off track. Time to start over! I like the Colbert interview where he asked a "devoutly Christian" Republican to name the 10 commandments. He got like..3 or something. That was classic. Maybe if he spent more time living and seeking to understand his faith and less time stealing money from the poor and middle class he might have gotten 10 for 10. Colbert is actually very religious. So it IS possible to have competency in your faith. Most Republicans though seem like dilettantes. They don't put any actual time into it, or live by it. They just pay lip service to it and talk the talk to get elected, and then get fat and rich by cheating, lying, and stealing.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #32 of 76
Tumpt have you read the entire Bible? Through my life experience I think it's quite clear the vast majority of Christians have come nowhere near reading the whole thing, let alone re-reading it frequently, understanding it, and then living by it even remotely. And the few that do read it a lot, seem to severely misinterpret it, or even if they personally adhere to it in their lives, still vote for murdering, thieving Republicans. How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, including women and children, have we killed for Bush and Cheney's oil fortunes? Makes my stomach churn. Not very Christ-like.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #33 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

So because your faith was weak you blame others? Wow that's pretty pathetic... Don't believe in God? Fine... that's your choice... Don't demean others that do....

The bible is a script for an ancient soap, Jesus was a dimwit, god is a word for "I am too stupid but there must be somebody who knows something".

The faithful are the biggest threat civilization knows. However I do like to utilize them to make $.

I was expelled because "Your son asks too many questions which disturbs the other students...." in other words: "Intelligent kids are not wanted in religious study!"
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #34 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post


The faithful are the biggest threat civilization knows.

I think this is mostly because they multiply rapidly. Earth has limited resources, unless Jesus comes back and brings Captain Planet with him to magically fix everything. Religious people and uneducated people have more kids. We are screwed. Welcome to the future, Idiocracy, c. 2100. It's kind of like a Markov model I guess. Eventually everyone will be stupid.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #35 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It tells us that when a poll is funded by dirty oil money, but you like the results, you won't question them, but if the dirty oil money funded polls or research with which you disagree, then they are greedy despoilers who are killing the planet and shouldn't be trusted.

I am sincerely confused, what do you mean by this trumpt?
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #36 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I am sincerely confused, what do you mean by this trumpt?

sound of tumbleweed whistling down the desolate ruined film-set streets.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #37 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Tumpt have you read the entire Bible? Through my life experience I think it's quite clear the vast majority of Christians have come nowhere near reading the whole thing, let alone re-reading it frequently, understanding it, and then living by it even remotely. And the few that do read it a lot, seem to severely misinterpret it, or even if they personally adhere to it in their lives, still vote for murdering, thieving Republicans. How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, including women and children, have we killed for Bush and Cheney's oil fortunes? Makes my stomach churn. Not very Christ-like.

I have read it but most people operate cars without having read the manuals. This is true of computers, causes, taxes, you name it. Most people are simply ignorant no matter their causes or beliefs. Most people don't hang out at computer forums or link to multipage articles to read just for fun. By simply typing here we probably aren't most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I am sincerely confused, what do you mean by this trumpt?

You don't know the history of the Pew Trusts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

sound of tumbleweed whistling down the desolate ruined film-set streets.....

Quote:
The Trusts, a single entity, is the successor to, and sole beneficiary of, seven charitable funds established between 1948 and 1979 by J. Howard Pew, Mary Ethel Pew, Joseph N. Pew, Jr., and Mabel Pew Myrinthe adult sons and daughters of Sunoco founder Joseph N. Pew and his wife, Mary Anderson Pew. The Trusts is based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, with an office in Washington, D.C.

Joseph Pew and his heirs were politically conservative. The mission of the J. Howard Pew Freedom Trust was to "acquaint the American people with the evils of bureaucracy and the values of a free market and to inform our people of the struggle, persecution, hardship, sacrifice and death by which freedom of the individual was won." Joseph N. Pew, Jr., called Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, "a gigantic scheme to raze U.S. businesses to a dead level and debase the citizenry into a mass of ballot-casting serfs."[2]

Most of the early beneficiaries were such conservative organizations as the John Birch Society, the American Liberty League, and the American Enterprise Institute,[3][4] although other beneficiaries included a cancer research institute, a museum, higher education, the American Red Cross, and historically black colleges. For many years, the Trusts tended to fund charities and conservative causes in Philadelphia.

Quote:
Sunoco Inc. (NYSE: SUN) is an American petroleum and petrochemical manufacturer headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States, formerly known as Sun Company Inc. (18861920 and 19761998) and Sun Oil Co. (19201976).

Sunoco is one of the largest gasoline distribution companies in the United States, with Sunoco brand gasoline being sold in over 4,700 outlets;[2] just over a third of these outlets are Sunoco gas stations and convenience stores,[3] located in 26 states.[2]

The point is pretty simple. If I cited a poll created by a trust founded with oil money that had given to the John Birch Society, how much credence would you give it?

The answer in this instance is, A LOT, because it fits the preconceptions you both have. If it didn't though, they they would simply be filthy lying polluters funding and spewing propaganda for their causes. I find the lack of questioning here sort of ironically funny.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #38 of 76
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I have read it....

All of it? I find that difficult to believe....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #39 of 76
I am currently working my way through the Bible. And I'm only 12.
post #40 of 76
An otherwise interesting thread descended into bashing people of faith.
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