Book listing claims Apple's iLife '11 will be 64-bit, iOS compatible - Page 2

iDVD will still be available for those that want it though, just like the old version of iMovie has been available all this time even though the new version is in it's third iteration now. It just won't be a part of the iLife suite because not that many people use it.

Okay, for the third time today, I am not confused as to the function of iDVD. I understand that it is an authoring tool to create DVD's and I have some experience doing so.

I take exception to Apple "killing off" the DVD format, or rather their arrogance in doing so. Hence my statement that Steve Jobs expects me to throw out my optical media collection.

I don't play DVD's (blu ray or otherwise) on my computer. I play them on my set top box and watch them in the living room on a flat screen TV. I don't subscribe to the notion that people want to watch Hi Def movies on, at best, a 27 inch computer monitor or the even more ridiculous notion of watching them on an iPad because of it's intimacy.

Blu-Ray on Macs is not important to the movie industry from a professional standpoint. Movies are not authored or mastered with consumer grade software. Since Apple essentially has no Blu-Ray abilities (other than the limited ones in FCP) Macs are of little consequence to the movie industry re Blu-Ray. The available Mac Blu-Ray apps are not pro apps (Premiere or Toast). My understanding is that Blu-Rays have not gained market share as expected. Certainly at my post facility we get a request for a Blu-Ray disc maybe twice a year. We send them elsewhere - we are not willing to spend the money on software and staffing for that miniscule amount of business. If we start getting calls once a week - that would be different.

NO, your assumption was that by removing iDVD, DVD burning from the iLife suite would be dropped.

Lots of people don't burn DVDs - do some quick web research, DVD recorders completely failed to take off, people use TiVO/Sky +. Consumers don't like physical media, they like convenience. It takes a LONG time to burn a DVD in iDVD, most people simply upload to youtube or share digitally. I'm more excited by the new features of iLife than I am be the ongoing evolution of how we store and share media - DVDs will always have a place in the market, as will people who still use VCRs and even those who love vinyl. Niche markets are not an important component in a consumer pleasing suite of easy to use software.

Where are we going? We're moving to digital streaming media, the wireless networked home streaming content from all your digital devices to one an other, we're moving to 4096 displays and stunning HD, and we're moving away from £20 to buy a movie on blu-ray. Optical media, physical purchases will die as soon as the telecoms infrastructure can deal with it. At the least, we'll see media on ultra hight capacity SD cards as standard within the next two years.

Why are Apple killing the DVD format? Care to explain?

How are those floppies working for ya?

And exactly how are they supposed to do this when they still employ optical drives in nearly every product they sell and still distribute most of their software not included with the OS on optical media?

I'm not updating because there's a trend with each new release of dropping functionality from the previous release. All the apps I listed are examples of that practice.

You are assuming the new iMovie won't let you burn your movie to a DVD.

It's about time Apple update iWeb. At Least, iWeb needs theme creation and blog control using web based interface (maybe the iOS version will have this). I would also like to see iWeb being able to create iOS optimized web pages.

Annnnnnnd another thread ruin by Blackintosh. Hes surely made this weeks quota on this one thread alone. Hopefully that means hell be taking the rest of the week off so we can intelligent adult discussions around here. Thanks guys¡


Moving on This is pretty common for Amazon. For many years theyve put up placeholders for Apple products that did not exist. The only difference here being that its a book, not the SW pack.

BTW, how many of you will buy iLife 11 from a DVD instead of simply buying the serial code online after installing the download? DVD media isnt nearly as common as it used to be for computers. Most videos we consume are streamed, most apps we install are downloaded. Its only a matter of time before the optical drive is removed from notebooks the way floppy drives and serial ports were.

Ah, OK. So what did iTunes use to do that it doesn't do now? Same goes for them all I suppose. Genuinely interested.

That would be great.

So the 64-bit thing... does that mean 64-bit only, or that the whole suite will run in both? I have an original Dore Duo machine, which is 32-bit.

There is no way for you to know how many people burn DVD's. Unless you are going to do a door to door survey. Apple once assumed that FireWire camcorders should be destroyed and took the firewire port off of the MacBook. They put it back on when Apple realized they don't steer the camcorder market.

As far as digital streaming media, how much of the world (trying to be fair to you non Americans here) has broadband internet? How much of the world has wireless "n" networking in their homes? People are never ever ever going to toss out optical media for streaming that skips and stutters all through the movie. We'll get there one day, but not today.

Really Solipsism, such a unprovoked attack. Try responding to the points I make. If you have the intelligence.

As far as taking the rest of the week off, forget about it.

Look, I hate to be so negative, but when Apple does something STUPID I'm going to call them out on it. Someday DVD media will be obsolete, but not today. It's too soon. That's the point. It's really a simple one. Too simple for Mr. Solipsism I guess.

Yes, I am assuming this, I am presuming this, I am predicting this. So is the article. If they want to move iDVD into iMovie, fine. My objection is to Killing it. Nobody likes to be killed you know.

Agree. The new QuickTime doesn't as much as the old pro version. Why not?

The new Apple TV does less then the old one.

As far as iTunes, I refuse to give up my colored icons. The world is a better place with different colors.

64 bit apps tend to be universal - they would have to be for iLife since most of the macs boot into 32-bit.


I am pretty sure that is already possible anyway - I thought that iPhoto has some DVD creation built in. I would have to check to make sure. If it wasn't already they would just add it in.

iDVD does have it's usefulness. Believe it or not, there are people <gasp!> who don't have broadband or an AppleTV to download your home videos and watch them. If you are archiving old home movies and want to share them with grandma and grandpa, creating a DVD they can just put in their DVD player at home may be the best option. Or whould you like to email a 500 MB video file to them?

That said, it's perfectly understandable that Apple doesn't want to invest the resources to upgrade it to 64-bit. So leaving it out of iLife allows them to declare "iLife is 64-bit!" iDVD is perfectly usable as it is. I've used it many times. Hopefully Apple will put it online for people to download if they don't get it with their Mac purchase and it's removed from iLife.

What, you where the person who bought a Kin? Good going...

If Apple decides to stop including iDVD in iLife, then they have decided to discontinue upgrades. The version you own will continue to work. What are you so upset about?

I argue that Quicktime X is a totally different app given:

1) it has not been ported over to windows
2) They still distribute the older version and they actually updated it slightly.

Quicktime 7 is not and, I argue, far from dead.

Unfair comparison. How many people have a floppy drive? I do on my old PC. But most don't. And it was an unreliable format. And they didn't get rid of floppys until after CD's existed.

How many people have a DVD player today? More than a few I'll bet.

I keep asking, but I'll ask again. You make a one hour HD movie. How are you going to distribute it? And before you say it, what about people who don't have a computer? Or don't have broadband? Or don't have wireless N networking?

There are different types of people on the earth, not everybody is a tech head. Only we are in the Apple Insider family of friends.

You would use any of the third party DVD applications like Toast that do a better job than iDVD - assuming that Disc Burning is not migrated into iMovie or iPhoto.

Heck, we son;t know if this rumor has any basis here. Amazon placeholders are not reliable sources whatsoever - and this is a verbatim placeholder from several months ago from a french website.

Remember that new version of Aperture called Aperture X that was on Amazon that was not called that?

I am soooo TIRED of peeps having NO CLUE. I want to SLAP people SILLY!!!

Honestly... Apple DOES support Blu-Ray (reference the compressor app). The only issue here is that you cannot PLAY blu-ray movies... which is silly in and of itself since you can author blu-ray.

Follow this link to Apple's "What's New" page and search for blu-ray. I will let you discover other official references on your own.

Yep. At the time I'm writing this, there are 64 posts, 40 of which are Blackintosh or people responding to his angry posts (62% of the thread). What a waste.

One should probably know one is a troll when 12 posts in a row are yourself arguing with the rest of the forum. I'm pretty shameless but even I would hesitate at that point.

[QUOTE=rivertrip;1726252 What are you so upset about?[/QUOTE]

The arrogance of the company to decide to kill something before it's time. I mentioned firewire earlier. Yes, it's a rumor, but if you listen to Steve Jobs in various interviews, clearly he hates DVD's. The keynote when he introduced the first aluminum iMac is a great example.

This company has a trend of making their customers conform to certain things that I find extremely bizarre.

You want to use the most popular mobile phone on the planet? Become an ATT customer. Want an iPad with 3G? You must use ATT. Want to surf the web? You must use safari. And NO Flash for you sir! Want to advertise on the iPhone? You must use iAd. (they backed off on this one a bit.)

Apple is still a player in a whole world of players. They used to get along when they were down and out. Now they want to steer the world. I have cited various examples in my previous posts that I highly recommend reading. I find this attitude bizarre and I can only assume it's some kinda aftermath of Steve Jobs' two near death health encounters.

I think the guy needs to have a nice steak dinner, check his meds and leave the world alone with their optical media. Cripes, Steve, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every day ya know!

One of the things that won me over to the Mac was the seamless integration of the software. My first Mac encounter was at the SOHO Apple Store. I was in the theatre in the back watching a presentation on Tiger and iLife. I loved it and thought it was great. There was nothing like it on the Windows side. One application communicated with the other. Browser windows to import content like music and photos right in to iMovie. Brilliant. And when your done, send the whole thing over to iDVD.

Yeah, you can use third party stuff, but it was so easy and elegant the old way. And who's going to use third party stuff? My Mom? My wife? Grandma? The high order bit of the Mac was that it was easy peezy to use. Hate to see that go away.

Instead of attacking me, or teaming up with solosim (whatever) to attack me, why don't you respond to my points? Discuss it with me. Try to persuade me to your way of thinking. Keep it civil.

Just because I don't agree with you're point of view doesn't make me a troll. Everyone is entitled to an opinion here. Even you sir.

While I agree with your principle, especially given who you're arguing with, these things didn't happen in the timeframe you're suggesting, and didn't evolve in the way you suggest either.

CD really evolved from Vinyl, not from cassette, and the CD came out in 1983-ish and was popular by the end of the 1980's. It killed off vinyl and cassettes within 10 years, because the record companies pushed it so hard and also because cassette quality was woeful. MP3s/AACs as a 'major' distribution format, didn't really take off until 2005 or so (when iTunes became the number 5 seller in the US) but had been around for almost 10 years, and CDs are still a lot more prevalent now than vinyls were in 1995. It's taking longer to 'replace' formats than previously, even though they're coming out more frequently.

DVDs are similar - they took around 5 or 6 years to virtually kill VHS, but Blu-Ray will probably never completely kill DVD. Why? Because while even someone with chronic eye problems can appreciate the difference between a VHS quality movie and even an average DVD on a 14 inch TV; getting the full effect of Blu-Ray requires a lot more investment - a 40 inch screen for a start. An upscaled DVD on high-quality equipment will probably look virtually as good as a Blu-Ray movie on a $99 Walmart player and a $300 720p TV from Best Buy.

As for HD to 3D Super HD, that has barely started. You're comparing complete transitions (Vinyl to CD) with partial ones (SD to HD and HD to 3D) or DVD to Blu-Ray.

I'm making this point, because this is exactly the issue with these types of arguments. While a tiny fraction of people still use LPs, many people still buy CDs, even those of us with iPods. HD has barely taken hold, and it's in many standards (720p, 1080i, 1080p) and a lot of 'HD' isn't High Definition at all - we're going to be faced with a decade or so of having no standards. When Hulu calls 1.5MB streaming 'HD', it's hardly surprising no one can appreciate that 45MB/sec Blu-Ray movies are in a completely different league, if they're also called 'HD'.

Your points seem to change too often for me to bother although I agree your later posts are much more reasoned.

I just personally find it offensive the way you jump out at the beginning of many threads with some nasty comment that gets everyone mad that are also simply wrong and based on nothing. Then everyone gets mad and attacks you, and you change the grounds of the debate, claim you didn't say/mean what you said etc.

Sure you're making *some* reasonable points in the later posts (I still disagree), but you *did* (IMO of course) "ruin the thread" as you have many others. It discourages others from even posting when they see 10 or twelve posts in a row from you.

If it were a real life situation instead of a forum, it's sort of the equivalent of starting an argument with someone by walking up to them and saying "f*ck you," then getting upset that no one is listening to you later on when your trying to make some kind of sense. The "f*ck you" sets the tone for everything that happens later on.

Well, you'll have a job distributing that HD movie on DVD; what with it's max resolution being 576 (on PAL, less on NTSC). Unless this is your argument for including iBD (or whatever a Blu-Ray version of iDVD would be called).

I do think you're getting your knickers in a twist, though. As per QuickTime and iMovie, Apple will almost certainly make the old version of iDVD available as a free download. They simply have no interest in wasting developer and support resource on it. DVDs don't play well with the rest of the Apple ecosystem, so doesn't form part of their strategic thinking. Same goes for any sort of upgrade to Blu-Ray. Let's face it, the intersection of households with HD televisions and BD players with those households with no broadband Internet is probably pretty small.

And you assume that it will go away. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest that this is even remotely the case. Seriously, you are going way overboard on an amazon placeholder that is in no way indicative of anything authoritative.

Amen, Amen I say to you.

Also, some provision to add "alt tags" so that pages are compliant with access laws for the disabled. Big problem for teachers with class sites.

I am looking forward to see iLife running on my iPad. With iWork they did such a great job. As for the iDVD dropout I really don't care. It was the least interesting feature in iLife. There won't be many people missing it. That's probably the reason, why they will eventually discontinue this application.

To add to this, I would expect the next version of Mac OS X to be Intel 64-bit ONLY, thus excluding the short lived CoreDuo and CoreSolo machines. After that I would expect Apple to drop support for 32-bit systems.


And even if Apple doesnt offer any DVD creation software that doesnt mean one wont be able to use a 3rd-party app.

PS: There is an odd disconnect from the trolls Ive noticed over the years on tech forums. The ones that hate Apple the most always say they own everything from Apple and are the first ones to suggest that if Apple doesnt offer it then it must be obsolete instead of just being an area of business that Apple doesnt wish to pursue. Its quite odd. There will be a niche market for DVD authoring for many, many years to come so one can buy that software, Toast is quite nice, and when Apple finally removes the DVD drives from notebooks one can always get an external if they need it or buy a different brand of computer. There is no one twisting their arm that they have to buy Apple and throw away all their previous DVDs if Apple doesnt directly support something, yet that is how they view every situation. Surely this must be trolling" as they cant be that disconnected from reality. I use the word troll as its the nicer of the titles that come to mind.

That would be interesting. I wonder if it will be $10 per app like with iWork.

In the U.S. We don't have the infrastructure for streaming to Everyone. And it certainly is not robust enough for 1080p.

And remember Ap,le is having a devil of a time with getting the cooperation of tv tv networks.

If that were true you wouldn't have a problem here. The fact is that you consistently find (or trump up) something negative to say about Apple no matter how positive the article.

You don't "hate to be so negative," you thrive on it. Be honest, please. The record of your posts is clear. Overwhelmingly they slam Apple or defend you against people who object.