Book listing claims Apple's iLife '11 will be 64-bit, iOS compatible - Page 3

I hate to say it, but I totally agree that non tech people need the DVD. Not everyone can use streaming.

More on this rumor from TUAW:


I concur - how does an unknown author have such exclusive access to software no one else has (which would be coved under an NDA)?

I use to be really big about making sure I always had a hard copy on DVD even when I had a backup to and external drive. I would always buy on DVD instead of downloading but I have slowly moved away from both.

I would say optical drives are dying faster in the Apple world then they are elsewhere.

For the most part all gaming is still done off DVD, I think most Windows users still buy content rather then downloading it. Things like the PSP GO adn Wii online game buying never took off well.

So I would say content download is still not there yet other places but its moving forward faster with Apple because SJ has been wanting to move in that direction for several years. I remember him talking about that when he intro the first Alu iMac.

But I agree we are moving away from optical drives. It will be interesting to see when things like the Xbox and PS start to move to download only content.

However Blackintoch does have a good point with this comment and I do agree about eldery people not being ready for this.

"Go ahead and buy a HD camcorder, make a movie with iLife and now what are you supposed to do with it? Upload it to Mobile Me and share it with family that might not have broadband?

Hey Grandpa, download this movie this weekend while your out of town and it might be finished by Monday morning. This is assuming Grandpa HAS a computer in the first place.

DVD's are perfect for sharing with non tech people, the kind that don't visit this forum. Not everyone thinks like the community here, thank goodness."

Get real. You have no friends here Blackintroll.

10$ is quite affordable, although I believe they will settle just a 10-20% below that price. Since iWorks is comparatively a Pro application.

Yes I do. I have YOU!

Good point, and Id think they might sell more in general so it could be warrant the price drop.

Id think. So far there iWeb app is pretty anemic trying to be user friendly as desktop app, but if they can make iWeb an app you can code with drag and drop on a the iPad that would be something.

PS: Its funny how the App Store has changed our perception of what an expensive program is. (Writing this while drinking my $5 coffee).

You live in a different world than I do. In the U.S. We are a long long way from having excellent infrastructure for everyone. Digit steaming requires excellent infrastructure.

The picture you paint is a long way off for most.

Whatever it contains I wish they would hurry up and release it. Hopefully it will come this month with a new range of laptops.

Whenever I have to use Windows driven computers I indeed tend to use DVD's rather than download versions. Luckily this doesn't happen all to often. As for films I stopped buying them on DVD's by 99%. They take too much space, when kept in their packing, and without, they tend to loose their resell value. But anyway I don't understand the mentioning of DVD's being better for non tech folks???

I thought iDVD is ditched long back.

You must be joking!!! Is this some exclusive coffee club you spend your good dollars in? Back to topic. Absolutely, iWeb may very well mute to a highly interesting program once made touchable.

I may be slightly off topic here but since we are talking about DVD let me ask a question. I make a lot of training movies which I deliver in various ways one of which is on DVD. For organizations that receive federal funding, we are required to deliver the dvd with subtitles, which can be turned off if hearing disabled people are not in the audience. Likewise, we are often asked to make foreign language subtitles available for global organizations.

Subtitles are easily done on DVD since you have a menu. What exactly is the industry best practice for this kind of functionality when we no longer deliver videos by DVD (or Flash, which also handles subtitles quite well)? Do we end up making multiple full copies of the video with slightly different attributes?

If you look at any computer stores DVD section its been dwindling year after year. The internet is just too pervasive, portable HDDs, flash drives, and even email/filesharing (for smaller files) is fast and efficient.

Take the optical drive in the 13 MB/MBP. Its one of the smallest among fullsized notebooks yet it takes up ¼ of the internal chassis space. On top of that its slower to read/write than even a slow HDD and hella* slower than any NAND-based tech, it has moving parts which make it more prone to breaking, and its using up 5 of that port-side real estate.

I dont think optical disc drives (ODDs) will be going away as swiftly as Apple did away with the floppy drive, but there is less and less reason to keep providing them in notebooks where space is so important. Apple cant reduce the size of their machines until they can get rid of the ODD. The question isnt if, but when.

Blackintoshs points (as copied and pasted from dozens of other posters) clearly shows a fatalist, Chicken Little delusion and odd hatred of Apple while thinking what Apple does has to affect his usage patterns. Him and those like him ignore 3rd-party apps, 3rd-party drives, etc.; all the things normal people easily figure out and work around.

Also note that Apple will not support Blu-ray playback so its odd that people keep expecting Blu-ray drives to show up in Macs or that iDVD and DVD Pro to be updated when theyve languished for so long and not even promoted with iLife 09. iDVD got a small mention that its included, but thats it! Apples own notebooks havent received a speed boost in their notebook ODDs for years now. Apple is done with forwarding the slow, power hungry, large and frequently unused ODDs. There is nothing to argue about, the writing is on the wall.

Again, this doesnt mean DVDs cant be used simply because Blackintosh says its all or nothing based on what Apple does as a company. Once Apple flips their internal switch others will follow but it will take time and there will always be options. Sony only stopped making floppy drives/discs this year and you can still find VHS tapes for sale. Actually, what you said about Grandpas and DVDs could have been said about Grandpas and VHS when DVD was gaining traction. If they can learn VHS, then learn DVD, then I think people can learn to stream from a media extender.

And most of these grandpas have kids and grandkids. I use Dropbox for my family. I drop in a video I formatted using Handbrake or QuickTime, which is then added to iTunes automatically with then shows up on their HDTV via AppleTV. To my family its magic, to me its less than 60 seconds of actual effort on my part.

* South Park starts back up this week.

you do love your hyperbole.

iDVD has nada to do with playing DVDs. ANd it was basically ditched in '09 where there were no updates from the '08 version. With good reason. Very few users at the ilife probably make DVDs. They are the ones that are more flickr, facebook, youtube. It's the Pro Suite folks that are making the DVDs on a regular basis.

And this little rant of yours is based on a rumor. For all we know, the facts are that yes iDVD will no longer be in the box, but it will be available as a download. Or maybe they are removing it as a separate app and incorporating it into iMovie/iphoto. Or perhaps iDVD isn't there because this mystery app is called something else but surprise all the iDVD functions are in it (along with other stuff)

Nope, firewire (which they created and introduced to home computers as a standard) was removed from lower end machines. Apple listened to their customers and put it back a year later - and still you criticise them? Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Sales of physical media are being decimated - or don't you (as a share holder with an interest in the IT market) follow the news and consumer trends? Digital media is the future - I know, you know and media companies know it.

Over 70% of internet users worldwide have broadband. Speaking locally, 80% of the UK is covered with BT and Virgin now rolling out fibre optic across the country. Also, the average broadband speed here is higher than in the US.

The world moves forward, some have to play catch up, or they become part of a minority who are left behind. It's not a reason to halt progress. With that attitude, we'd still be living in caves. My dad's movie collection is all in VHS - should computers have VHS drives attached to them? DVD is dying - take a walk around a branch of HMV, see the bargain basement of movies being sold off for less than £5 each in order to clear shelves.

Blu-Ray titles are still in the minority, the media is too expensive. With google tv, apple tv, hulu, netflix etc. etc. people are transitioning to digital viewing and purchase/rental. It's easy and stress free and people are lazy. Apple aren't leading this evolution, but they are a part of it.

You'd best not to be disappointed in 18 months - 2 years when optical drives begin their exodus from the computer eco-system.

Also, with buffering in place on systems such as the apple TV - what is going to splutter during playback? Some people don't have broadband and therefore we shouldn't let those who do enjoy a modern experience? What part of that statement drives market forces?

Yes and no. It hasnt been updated and it hasnt been promoted as part of iLife, but its been included in the SW package. I would assume that the next iLife update wont even have it at all though it will still be available from Apple for a couple more years.

http://www.apple.com/ilife/ Note the top row shows iDVD as the fifth and last app, but below they only showcase the 4 other iLIfe apps.

Nope, just export video files playable on computers which ship on SD cards.

Apple removed FireWire 400 from all machines. The MacBook never had FireWire 800 and it never got it. It only looks like Apple recanted on a fictional inclusion of FireWire because they split the 13 Mac notebook into a basic a Pro model, with the Pro model getting FireWire 800 (like all Pro Macs) and the MacBook still without FireWire.

NOpe, digital streaming requires a downstream speed of around 1.5 megs, the bare minimum broadband a majority of web users experience. Also, I didn't suggest that "everyone" has broadband. Some people don't have the internet into their homes either. Is that a reason that development of new technologies and practices should be stalled?

Also - it's not "DVD or Streaming" - I'd much rather buy a movie on an SD card than a DVD - this is another alternative. This is a little like the "Flash or HTML5" discussion - one doesn't replace the other, they exist along side, each having their place. It's evolution, not revolution. But there is no reason to hold up progress. iDVD has no place in iLife, and I'd imagine that much simpler DVD burning features will be be built into iMovie.

So... Will the 64-bit version of iWeb be going with a woodgrain background?

iWeb needs some serious help. Glad to hear they are completely re-coding it. They had the right idea, but poor implementation. I would like to see the flexibility of Pages incorporated in the new version... Frustrating how you can't modify templates currently.

As far as iDVD, tried it out 5 years ago, didn't care for it, moved on. Was ok for a beginner app thou.
The point of iLife is to make it easy for the illiterate to do fun things on their mac's. Let them start creating content easily, slide shows, dvd's, websites etc...
Not sure I like the idea of dropping iDVD. While most of us don't live in the 'template' world, a lot do.
I very strongly urge all people who are buying their first computer to go with a Mac for this reason... the easiest OS to learn and iLife/iWork. You would be surprised how many people are considering their first computer.

Anyways, I hope this isn't a trend where Apple is more concerned about how we consume media, then create our own.

Aside from the assumption that this article has any actual facts in it.

This has been a frequent theme in your posts. Even when the article says "rumor" in big bold letters.

And then, after assuming the article is factual, you bash the heck out of it and anyone that has an opposing viewpoint.

No big shock most folks think you are a troll.

Great good to know but, what format? I guess you need to ship it as a HTML5 web page if you want to do any menu jump or looping. We also do a lot of trade show video where we might loop a 5 minute video segment. We usually use video monitors with built in DVD players since no one wants to leave their laptop at the booth and without some programming you can't loop a regular video file. At least not to my knowledge.

Yup, but this was never an issue as a FW 400 - 800 cable is pence and fully compatible. You mentioned FW800 not me, the macbook and ibook before it both had FW400 and it was this which was removed.

With this sort of logic, light peak and USB3 will never happen - don't remove the old ports - five year old equipment won't work. Would you like to see the ADB port replaced too so you can use your old keyboard and mouse?

No need to use HTML5 - there are lots of methods of delivering interactive video content that have been around for years- take a look at flash when used properly, or maybe Director (been a while, don't know if it still exists, but Macromedia Director was a fantastic tool for things like this). You can export as a self playing file which doesn't required and software or plug-ins.

Edit - found this for you.

http://www.adobe.com/products/director/

Looking at every thing theyve done I cant imagine how that could be assumed, even for a second. Did they remove editing and publishing features from iPhoto? Did they remove iMovie? Did they remove Garageband? Did they remove iWeb? Did they not make it easy to upload your media to Flickr, YouTube, MobileMe, etc.?

They havent even removed iDVD from iLife 09 even though it hasnt been updated since version 7.x which was introduced in 2007 with iLife 08. You get to a point and say its foolish to keep in SW that we arent actively promoting or updating, especially when you have other rumoured apps to include.

I think this is the exact opposite. iLife is entirely about how consumers create rather than consume media. Consumers are over DVD - consumers like youtube, streaming, memory sticks and simple processes. The very simple inclusion of DVD burning features to the back end of iMovie and iDVD becomes irrelevant. Dedicating a whole app to a dying media format is sort of silly as we move to 2011.

iDVD isn't about creation, it's about distribution. And DVD is not the future or media distribution, any more than blu-ray.

PS. iWeb is great, it's a fun little app for amateurs to have a cheap easy to edit web presence. It's not intended as a coda replacement, it's a toy, and it's very good at filling it's niche - i look forward to an update and see what people like my dad will make of it.

Believe me we have been doing this sort of thing for literally decades. But in light of openness and platform agnostic methods we don't like to ship Windows and Mac executables as there is always some confusion by the end user trying to figure out how to play it. That is the beauty of DVD and of course web pages, everyone can figure it out.

I have no idea what your defense is and of course I brought up FW800, I was clarifying what Apple did because it wasnt some whimsical removal of FireWire, but a calculated removal of FW400 from all Macs. You can say that its backwards compatible to FW800 and it is in signaling, but unlike USB3.0, the port interface isnt backwards compatible, which is a very distinct and very real reason why FW400 had to finally go.

The only fault is not being forward thinking enough to make FW400 and FW800 uses the same backwards compatible port interface the way USB did.

The rest of my statement explained how Apple still will give you what you want. Do you enjoy being angry? Your last paragraph appears to apply to you more than anyone else. Calm down.

In many key markets they have become so. Though they are still big in entertainment since they've got the both the content and hardware.

As i stated earlier a cable with FW400 on one end and FW800 on the other is pence.

As I also stated, you talked about a removal of FW from macbooks, you didn't mention 400 or 800 - as (you then later clarified) 800 wasn't touched. So make your mind. Do you want progress or not?

Port designs change, cables change, peripherals need updating. No one is forced to upgrade to a new machine, but if you buy a new machine, you accept new technology. It's a fact of life. Things move forwards. Otherwise, i'd be typing this on a keyboard attached with an ADB cable to a computer, only to save it on a floppy drive.

Remember the outcry when apple removed the built-on telephone modem?

Move forward, or get left behind - your choice, not a fault on Apple's part. They want you to buy new equipment with compelling new features, it's how they're still in business. Not some great shocker now, is it?



Was your initial statement. YOU stated that all firewire ports were removed from all macbooks. That was untrue. FW400 was left off and the FW800 left for higher end machines. It had nothing to do with "steering the camcorder market". You make large statements which are untrue a LOT Blackintosh and then criticise based on your fiction - have you considered a career in politics?

Nope, and not everyone has blu-ray players, so should blu-ray not be distributed as part of a solution? Without consumer pressure, the telecom companies will never have an reason to upgrade infrastructure. Demand drives profits for these companies, so holding back on technologies will just mean a stand still.

Really?

Again, Apple removed the obsolescing FW400 port interface standard. That’s it!

Sorry. I thought this was a rumor site. I didn't realize this was true tech journalism here and that the posters in this forum were normal rational people.

When they removed those things they also provided another way for you do continue doing what you did before. When they removed the ADB they gave you USB, and when they removed the floppy they gave you a writable optical disc and in some cases a zip drive. When they remove the optical disc they will probably give us an SD card slot on every computer they sell. What I don't understand is why they remove the software before they remove the hardware. Are they just saving pennies by not upgrading iDVD to 64 bit with the rest of the suite?

DVD reading and writing software was not originally native to computers. It was developed as a means of being compatible with another very pervasive technology, the television platform. Downloading of TV content is still in its infancy so why the rush to rid the world of ubiquitous television compatibility?

Can't say I agree with you there at all. iDVD is about creation. It's a content creation tool. Some people don't just shoot video and say "done". Some like nice menu's and inserting photos and music and creating... a dvd. A work of art in itself. Similar to the 'album vs single's' debate in music. Some like the album experience. Are you going to say that 'Albums' are not the way of the future?

As far as DVD's being the future, this point is moot. It's like debating what is art.
It doesn't always matter what the 'future' of some tech is going to be, as long as there is a 'present'.
Presently, DVD's are still the most widely adopted format for video distribution. Shrinking, yah.

I think the debate is wether it's the right time for Apple to drop support for iDVD.

My answer is sure... throw some tools into iMovie and be done with it.

However, I know some people who will be intimidated with a bloated iMovie.
I know some people who are new to comput'n world who want to simply play a music file, open up iTunes and you can see their brain cramp.

This whole thread has made me aware of how hard it must be to innovate crazy and complex software, yet make it look stupid easy to use so people don't freak out. Kinda like the time I opened up Lightwave 3D thinking i'd make a quick animation...

And how exactly do we know when something is obsolescing? When Steve Jobs tells us so? Do you really think Jobs has the only key to the walled garden and everyone outside is banging on the door looking to get in?

Experiencing the bare minimum for streamed content at 1.5Mbps is a far cry from being THE method of delivery for HD content in the living room. Yes, it will happen someday, but as the comment you quoted said, the picture you paint is a far way off for most. Just the other night, we were trying to watch a streamed episode of Family Guy from Netflix. Not only did it keep stuttering, but one of my guests commented how poor the picture quality was. And as a side note, I subscribe to a 30Mbps service (way above the norm her in the states) and was using a PS-3 to stream the content and display it on my 46" LCD TV. By the way, I don't recall Blackintosh or anyone else suggesting that new technologies and practices be stalled.