Microsoft may use Windows Phone 7 event to show off tablets - Page 2

I presume this is the simplified version ... missing out the various other windows that pop in front of those dialogs you mention with comments like "You are not connected to the internet" (when you are) and "new hardware found" (even though you haven't added any) and "New updates are ready to install" and "Your database is out of date" (because you haven't used it in three minutes. Plus of course, several saying you must restart.

Its discussing both. We know MS has Win Phone 7 in the works and will demo it next week. We know Balmer was on stage in January for CES with an HP tablet running Windows 7. The prototype video that was floating around last week is ambiguous as to MS and HP still pursuing that device or if its just an old prototype that was ditched last year that someone got ahold of. After the iPad coming out and showing everyone how its done and HP buying WebOS I have to think that its the latter. Didnt HP say they scraped the Windows 7 tablet idea or am I just assuming that?


Im not sure how much compatibility breaking there is when there numbers are dropping. They may have a path for backwards compatibility, but sometime you have to start over if you want to survive. It might be in their best interest to have an entirely new ecosystem that is WP7 focused, completely shunning WM6 and earlier. Its not like WM6 is even designed for the HW that will come on WP7 devices, namely a multi-touchscreen I/O so I assume they will all but drop WM6 except for legacy support and basic security patches.

That tablet had some pretty neat concepts.

I'm not sure I understand everything I saw.

It was rough in spots but far more believable than what RIM showed in their PlayBook announcement.

But, at a manufacturing target of 100,000 per month I don't see how they can make their nut-- likely, Apple rejects more than that per month.

I don't see that as a large enough scale to be able purchase parts or schedule production runs that would be necessary to compete with the iPad.

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could be nicer than holding down power and home keys until you get the power off slider

An interesting little tidbit, but it seems as if John Gruber actually likes WP7, and sees it as a credible competitor.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...-7-2010-10.DTL

just food for thought for those saying that WP7 stinks.

They can try to FUD their way into stalling the market all they want, but I doubt even a shipping product would put much of a dent in the coming iPad frenzy this Christmas.

That gave me an image of Steve Ballmer staggering around blindfolded in a room full of hassocks, swinging a 50 pound sledgehammer and trying to smash a piñata 20 feet above his head.

So Thurrott and now Gruber are positive on WP7. Intriguing.
(Not being sarcastic here, I know it almost sounds like I am)

It is interesting, but I have said for awhile that MS has a compelling product here for Windows users, and that a blind dismissal of WP7 because it is a MS product might be a mistake. MS has taken a page from Apple and put together a consistent ecosystem and new UI (which on first glance looks interesting), which might attract a fair number of users, largely at the expense of Android I would think.

MS seems to be turning around a bit. Windows 7 is solid, Bing is now the 2nd largest search engine, Office 2010 is doing well, and I have been running the Mac Beta version of Office and it is really good.

Interesting times.

It is interesting that Microsoft have gone for the mid-ground in the smartphone stakes:-

Specification of hardware minimum requirements - [unlike Android]
A unified OS (no modification) - [Like Apple]
Synchronised updates - [unlike Android]
Multiple hardware/handset/manufacturer choice - [Unlike Apple]

Time will tell whether this will pay off, but I agree with you that Microsoft are currently on a roll.

BTW, hate that HP W7 slate thing (if it is genuine), in my opinion, porting over WP7 (their new phone OS) is a better move.

I think that one of the things that makes WP7 viable is it is a fresh start with no legacy compatibility issue to bloat and bog the system down.

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I agree 100%, but the fact that they did start from scratch is indicative of the fact that his may be a "new" MS that is starting to do the right things.

If so, people should be a bit concerned, as MS has a lot of smart people who have been mismanaged in the past.

I'm glad to read on this site that other longtime posters who are pejoratively deemed "Apple fanboys" by the Untouchables see the potential value in Win Phone 7 and notice MS is taking a new approach, for a change.

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If MSFT comes out with a tablet using WP7 (or WM7, or whatever it's called), before they come out with a Tablet with Windows 7

and

HP comes out with a tablet (as I believe they are contracted to do) running Windows 7, before they come out with a tablet with WebOS.


On the GoogleTV thread, someone made the point that when OS X and iOS get true resolution independence, the new AppleTV will offer a better web experience than GoogleTV as text, etc. will scale much better for a large HDTV screen.


I think that web sites and browsers will continue to be refined to support phone and tablet formats.


In Apple's and Microsoft's case they will, likely evolve the desktop OS, and desktop apps to be more aware of, and compatible with mobile formats-- so it is easier to manipulate a desktop and desktop apps with VNC or BackToMyMac from a mobile device.


Maybe, that's the next big challenge!

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This just gets more and more interesting. Noah Kravitz from Phonedog says that WP7 UI makes the iPhone UI look like a dinosaur.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2010/10...ke-a-dinosaur/

this could be an interesting next few months.

It pains me to say it but the tiles UI is more appealing than iOS.

And it would be even sweeter on a tablet. Why in God's name they persist in sticking Window 7 on tablets when they have this just dumbfounds me. It serves as a good reason for MS to look for a new CEO.

That isn't exactly an unfair assessment either, depending on what areas of the UI you are referring to. Apple still has a major leg up in some areas despite the UI still being mostly the same since the 2007 intro, but I'm loving this new MS.

One of my biggest concerns for WP7, and something MS has never had a great grasp of or focus on is power efficiency. They might best Android, which inherently had a tougher time of this do to the OS distribution model, and should best WinMo for doing the same tasks, but beating Apple hear is a pretty tall order. Since they are bing particular with the HW options they'll license for this will be much easier than they had with WinMo.

We shall see how it goes. My wife wants one (ditching a BB 9700), so we will probably get her one when they are released in the states.

As to power. I have a iPhone 3G running iOS 4. The update improved the speed issue, so it is no longer a turtle on benzos, but the battery life stinks.

I do not think MS is sticking it on the tablets, but the HW vendors are. Ballmer has always said that the OS for Tablets is W7 embedded, which I am not familiar with. He also said it is being tweaked.

I think that HP and all the rest just want a tablet out for Christmas. OTOH, an OS that could run a the full Office Suite would be nice - that is why I have not picked up an iPad yet - at the current time the software will not do what I need it to do (e.g., Endnote support).

Looking an the demo of the WP7 phone there were several nice things, and some that, well, I question.

--I like the lock screen with all the current and timely info in one place.

-- the titles that don't quite fit on the screen... not so much. I understand it's cool from an artsy-fartsy standpoint, but it grabs too much precious screen real estate.

-- I like the big tiles... I think. The color was Fugly (but probably user setting).

-- I wonder what the battery cost is, of continuously updating several tiles backgrounds

-- I am not sure where the dividing line is between tiled apps (key system-provided apps) and all other apps... it appeared that all other apps were in a single scrollable list below all the tiles

-- the iPhone UI isn't as eye-catching because I am used to it... that doesn't necessarily make it passé, rather just comfortable.

-- I don't particularly like how iOS handles folders, but it's better than nothing

-- We have hundreds of apps on our iPhones and iPads and neither the multiple screen or folder implementation does the job

-- I don't know how WP7, or Android addresses this problem

-- what about printing and exchanging files with your computer or other mobile devices.

-- It seemed odd that, this being a MS demo, at a MS booth, the device didn't have any music, video, games or apps available

-- What I saw looked solid and responsive with good attention to detail... That is impressive

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Re: EndNote. Is this something you would really run on a Tablet with limited HDD storage. Rather, wouldn't you run EndNote in the Cloud or on your home or business computer -- then access the results from your tablet to add to a document?

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I agree with that


I think this is one big selling point, and what some of the commercials are highlighting. The catch phrase that is being use is "glance and go" (compared to "stop and star") with iOS and Android.


I can see what you are saying, but this is one of the personal preference things. Some will like it, some won't


Supposedly the color is user selectable.


Yes, this will be a critical issue.


I am not sure you quite get the idea of the tiles. Each tile is a "hub" where information is centralized. So, for the People tile, you have all your contact information, but also each person's Facebook, Twitter, etc information all integrated into one place. As such, you get updated information from all sources in the tile. The list view of apps are the apps themselves, which have segregated information (e.g., contacts = contacts, facebook = facebook). So the tile = contacts + facebook + twitter + etc


True enough, but many people, including those in the press. are looking for new and novel. A different way of looking at it is, just look at all the posts on the board complaining that Android "copied" iOS. At least that is not the case here.


True enough.


Let me ask, how many of the apps do you really use? I have 60-70, but to be honest, I only ever use about 6 on a regular basis. This is one reason I think the whole app store issue is overblown (fyi, I do not consider games as apps, I put them in a separate category).


I think the tiles handles this.


WP7 is cloud based. You have a MS live account, and it ALL syncs through that. It seems to work reasonably well. I use their cloud service for files via Windows live Mesh, and it works like a charm for my Mac.


The clip says that no one had a Zune account. I flipped through the Zune marketplace, and it is pretty comparable to iTunes in terms of breadth and maybe depth of content.


It should be interesting.

I am not sure. The Endnote website does not recommend using Pages on an iPad at this time. It says that the code gets converted to text, and does not get back converted. So, I cannot take a manuscript and work on it when I travel. So, at the current time I either take a netbook (short trip) or my 15" MBP, which I do not like lugging around.

Exactly! You grab your phone, see what's happening with little or no effort -- then delve deeper, or, likely 95% of the time, move on.


Ahh... Big fat folders -- thanks for 'splaining that. I like it!


On the iPhone, very few.

The iPad is a totally different story -- I probably use 15-20 in a typical week (excluding games).

We have 2 iPads and they are used by 2 adults and 3 children -- so there is a wide variety of interest, medical, art, music, education...

These come and go, the way games wax and wane in their usage. Here's a recent example: we discovered that the youngest boy could not tell time on an analog clock -- he was sick and missed the class when it was taught (a couple of years ago). He was too embarassed to tell anyone. We told him to never be embarassed by what you don't know.

There are several apps for that. We bought one and he has been using it every day... Getting good at telling time.


Agree!

I do not like MS, the company (personal experience) and do not much care for their software (Excel and SQL Server, excepted).

But as my grandma would have said: "You dasen't underestimate them!"

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The greatest problem of Microsoft now is execution. If what you guys are reporting here is true, Microsoft does have a winner in it's hands in the mobile arena.

Unfortunately for Microsoft though, the mobile industry is a hundred times unforgiving than the computer industry and Microsoft's reputation in the mobile world is not what we can call exemplary. They have to execute perfectly to gain market share from Goggle because they share the same telecom manufacturers and soon, the same carriers with the added burden of playing nice with those cell phone manufacturers and telecom companies.

As for the UI, Microsoft have at least three years to make their own mobile UI that is better than Apple's current iOS UI and I have no doubt that it's more user friendly in theory than Apple's current iOS or Google's Android. My question is this, how fast can Microsoft react to changes in the mobile industry especially when Apple or Goggle decides to rock the mobile boat again.

Yes!

Now that I understand that the tiles act as hubs for related apps, I think that that UI could be superior to anything I have yet seen in iOS, WebOS or Android.

It will be interesting to see how MS incorporates multitasking into their UI -- I don't particularly care for the iOS implementation (which I use) or the Android implementation (which I have seen demoed).

I think that the iOS UI has evolved slowly -- to allow incorporation of multitasking as well as the different form factor of a tablet (and AppleTV).

I suspect that, soon, Apple will look around and incorporate ideas from Android, WebOS and WP7-- as well as their browser, their apps and their desktop OS.

Done properly, there can be a synergy between web, apps, mobile and desktop UIs.

MSFT and Apple are the only companies with an offering in all 4 spaces (5, if you count TV).

... A distinct opportunity for success (or failure).

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The tiles go beyond just being "super folders" for apps, but rather integrate the information from apps into a new entity. There was a youtube video where this guy created a hub dedicated to his wife. The hub updated as his wife did various online activities, like posting on her Facebook page, changing their calendar and sending him a text. So all that information updated in real time for her tile.


True, but IMO, multitasking is not all that important. Cut and paste is not really an issue for 75% of WP7 because of the way they implement things. So, if you go to a restaurant's webpage, and then Bing, it inserts the address automatically, and then if you text a friend it inserts the webpage and directions




Exactly, which is why I think WP7 has a chance

I dont think HP or windows tablet will outsell ipad... simply because MICROSOFT dont know the true meaning of why we need a tablet . Tablet is for touch for doing something mouse and keyboard cant do and giving users a new interactive ways to do something unexpected.
IPADS supports 11 points of muti-touches and apps are taking advantage of ipad's muti-touch . HP slate or windows tablets , what do they take advantage?? They dont have muti-touch more than 4!!! and they run the same crappy windows OS!! WHo wants to use the tablet in an experience that is the same as a NETBOOK!!
unless tablets support over 11 muti-touches and specially written apps designed for the tablet, i wonder how other ipad competitors can beat apple!!

And if u can see , when u touch hp slate , u see a mouse pointer!! Come on, this little thing shows how microsoft didnt THINK!! what is the use of having a cursor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! microsoft always put stupid useless things on their crappy products!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The number of concurrent multi-touches recognized is very important to some applications.

Are you sure that other tablets are limited to 4 multi-touches?

I can see that it could be a limit of the OS, especially a desktop OS like Windows.

Does anyone know what the limit is for Android? For WP7?

I suspect that OS X support for multi-touch could be the same as iOS.

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Frankly , i dont think this hp slate will support muti-touch more than 2 .. HP touchsmart desktop only supports 4 points without very beautiful apps to take advantage of it as windows os sucks!!!!

This tablet is so STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scolling up and down = hightlight the text!! (as u see in the video) come on!! why brings the same mouse experience on touching a device!! When I scoll down on ipads, mistakely hightlighting text WILL never happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WINDOWS tablet is not as responsive as an ipad and always do stupid things hightlighing mistakenly - all of this trouble will make WINDOWS tablets BIG failure.

WHEN Will microsoft wake up!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, But Apple unlike Microsoft controls the whole widget and is more than willing to take risks than Microsoft as a company and whose CEO is more than willing to say no to feature creep . In the end I think, Apple will do very well in both profits and marketshare and Microsoft will do just fine as well.

It's not all just updates though, as I understand the 'Peoples Hub' - the equivalent of the Contacts/Address Book allows you to actually post comments and updates from this space. I am actually impressed with this, as it removes the requirement to open up a separate Facebook or Messenger app. It can all be done from one spot.

The same with the Photograph Hub, it actually aggregates all you photos whether on your phone or the cloud, or on Facebook or Flickr into one spot. You are also able to comment on photos direct from the hub and it's added automatically to the 3rd party service in question.

Certainly, I can see a lot of possibilities with the Hub - User interface concept. The thing is, this is a completely new OS, built ground-up from this concept - I begin to wonder how iOS will evolve. Can it retrofit some of these concepts?

People have been tagging iOS (and Android) as 'App centric' whereas WP7 is 'User centric' - which I suppose is more or less accurate, iOS approach is tried and tested, but I do wonder about it's evolution, with WP7, IF it's successful, I foresee many interesting possibilities with the way the OS has been created:- If I want to view a contact or friend, I go to the Peoples Hub, from there I can phone or text them, so far so good, but I can also view their social network updates and reply to them directly. I can also email them, located their address and get directions. I don't need to open separate social network apps, the email app and map/direction app.

The only question I have is the hardware - I look forward to seeing what they have on offer.

The windows phone 7 ui looks like lotus notes.

I wonder if Ray Ozzie gave them the idea.

Time will tell.