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Motorola sues Apple for alleged patent infringement

post #1 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:27pm
Thread Starter 
Motorola announced on Wednesday that its subsidiary, Motorola Mobility Inc., filed a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission, accusing the iPhone, iPod touch and certain Macs infringe on patents.

Motorola Mobility has alleged the violation of 18 patents it owns, related to a range of technologies including 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless and antenna design. Accused Apple products include MobileMe and the App Store.

Motorola claims that it attempted to license technology to Apple, and engaged in "lengthy negotiations" with the iPhone maker, but a deal could not be reached. The company alleged that Apple "refused" to pay for a license.

The complaint was filed against Apple in two U.S. districts: the Northern District of Illinois and the Southern District of Florida. It covers technologies such as wireless e-mail, proximity sensing, software application management, location-based services and multi-device synchronization.

"Motorola has innovated and patented throughout every cycle of the telecommunications industry evolution, from Motorola's invention of the cell phone to its development of premier smartphone products," said Kirk Dailey, corporate vice president of intellectual property with Motorola Mobility. "We have extensively licensed our industry-leading intellectual property portfolio, consisting of tens of thousands of patents in the U.S. and worldwide."

"Apple's late entry into the telecommunications market, we engaged in lengthy negotiations, but Apple has refused to take a license. We had no choice but to file these complaints to halt Apple's continued infringement. Motorola will continue to take all necessary steps to protect its R&D and intellectual property, which are critical to the company's business."

As is standard in an ITC suit, Motorola asked the commission to ban the importation of products involved in the suit, including the iPhone ad iPad. Motorola has also asked the ITC to halt the marketing, promotion and sale of products it believes are infringing. Motorola also seeks compensation from Apple.

Motorola's lawsuit is just the latest in a long list of complaints involving Apple before the ITC. Apple has also sued Nokia, and is also being sued by the Finnish handset maker. The ITC has agreed to look into both companies' complaints of patent infringement.

Apple has also sued handset maker HTC. And it's being sued by Elan Microelectronics over multi-touch.

The ITC has also begun investigating claims made by Kodak against Apple. The camera company has alleged that Apple is in violation of patents that relate to the previewing of images, and processing them at different resolutions.
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post #2 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:32pm
I have been watching all of these lawsuit graphics floating around, guess this will require an update.

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post #3 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:32pm
when you can't innovate, litigate!
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post #4 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:41pm
With every company suing every other company that they see..I'm going to change my major.
Law School here I come!
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post #5 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:41pm
If anyone is getting rich from this, it's BAYER. We're all just getting headaches from reading about patent litigation.

But then again, has anyone sued Bayer for "implementing a pain reduction in the cerebral cortex"???? Patent trolls, please wake up!!!!
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post #6 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:42pm
Let's count the days it takes for Apple to counter-sue for the Droid copies of the iPhone.
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post #7 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:46pm
Give me a freakin' break. This whole mess is retarded ... much like my post here. I have said as little as possible, so as to not be sued for typing my comments in a way that may be plagiarizing other work. I are scared!
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post #8 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:55pm
It's worth noting that there is no such thing as "wireless email" (in the same way as there is no such thing as a "roadless car").
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post #9 of 46
10/6/10 at 12:56pm
Note that aspirin is not patented here in France. That's a direct consequence of 1918 victory (it is written in the armistice act).

I think it is high time Apple moves to Europe: there is no software patent over here, we are civilized.
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post #10 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

... we are civilized.

That case is... hmmm... still pending...
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post #11 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:09pm
Love the diagram, before I saw it and based on the headline I was about to say this was becoming a circus ... the diagram proves it and it even looks like a big top from a birds eye view! Lawyers must be laughing all the way to their respective banks.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #12 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

Note that aspirin is not patented here in France. That's a direct consequence of 1918 victory (it is written in the armistice act).

I think it is high time Apple moves to Europe: there is no software patent over here, we are civilized.

Nokia?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #13 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:33pm
As a lawyer I can tell you don't bother. Unless you get into a school like Harvard or the University of Michigan you likely will not be making those big bucks. Do an internet search, big law firms are letting people go because the companies are cutting back on legal expenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323 View Post

With every company suing every other company that they see..I'm going to change my major.
Law School here I come!
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post #14 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It's worth noting that there is no such thing as "wireless email" (in the same way as there is no such thing as a "roadless car").

How does one patent wireless e-mail? Someone else owns the patent to wireless, e-mail can't be patented, yet somehow I can patent a combo of the 2?

By the way, doesn't prior art count for something in a patent? If so I think someone beat Motorola to it.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/17/g...mail-profiled/
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post #15 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

I have been watching all of these lawsuit graphics floating around, guess this will require an update.


This here's what you call a big circle jerk.
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post #16 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

How does one patent wireless e-mail? Someone else owns the patent to wireless, e-mail can't be patented, yet somehow I can patent a combo of the 2?

By the way, doesn't prior art count for something in a patent? If so I think someone beat Motorola to it.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/17/g...mail-profiled/

Someone is already suing Apple for Wireless email, 3G, GPRS, 802.11 wireless.. etc . It is getting really ridiculous.

It is interesting that Nokia is suing almost everyone else (HW makers).
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post #17 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:48pm
Apple is already preparing to countersue as we speak.
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post #18 of 46
10/6/10 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

As a lawyer I can tell you don't bother. Unless you get into a school like Harvard or the University of Michigan you likely will not be making those big bucks. Do an internet search, big law firms are letting people go because the companies are cutting back on legal expenses.


I was being sarcastic but it's good to know what you said. Majoring in law was one of first decisions that I wanted to do, but it wasn't for me.
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post #19 of 46
10/6/10 at 2:00pm
This shows all the signs of becoming a technological Gordian's Knot (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot ).

Maybe we need a modern Alexander the Great to settle this....
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post #20 of 46
10/6/10 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

I think it is high time Apple moves to Europe: there is no software patent over here, we are civilized.

We have software patents in England & Wales.
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post #21 of 46
10/6/10 at 2:46pm
I have a chop-busting question - why didn't they sue three years ago when iPhone first came out?
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post #22 of 46
10/6/10 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

Note that aspirin is not patented here in France. That's a direct consequence of 1918 victory (it is written in the armistice act).

Any patent on aspirin would be long expired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EauVive View Post

I think it is high time Apple moves to Europe: there is no software patent over here, we are civilized.

The software patent situation in Europe is essentially the same as in the US: you can patent a technical innovation that is implemented in software. Most big companies file their software patents in at least the US, Europe and Japan.
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post #23 of 46
10/6/10 at 3:57pm
Apple refuses to innovate on key technologies, so it steals them from other companies and refuses to compensate them appropriately.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #24 of 46
10/6/10 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Nokia?

Finland
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post #25 of 46
10/6/10 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

Finland

Haha that was a fast edit there.
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post #26 of 46
10/6/10 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Apple refuses to innovate on key technologies, so it steals them from other companies and refuses to compensate them appropriately.

Examples?
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #27 of 46
10/6/10 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Examples?

Of which of course I myself in the past have been guilty. But you just opened up a can of troll worms for sure...
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post #28 of 46
10/6/10 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Apple refuses to innovate on key technologies, so it steals them from other companies and refuses to compensate them appropriately.

Have a break and come back. see your reply and tell me how you feel like.
Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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Same Apple. Same Mac. Different Take. Different Place. http://Applemacness.com
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post #29 of 46
10/6/10 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post



This here's what you call a big circle jerk.

More like a circular firing squad.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #30 of 46
10/6/10 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Apple refuses to innovate on key technologies, so it steals them from other companies and refuses to compensate them appropriately.

Kinda like the $1.7 million they gave that couple for their property in NC? They told them to name their price, they did, and Apple paid it. Doesn't do much to support your corporate characterization, does it. But then I don't suppose you'll be back to answer for your asinine comment, being the drive-by graffiti that it is.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #31 of 46
10/6/10 at 6:11pm
You'll notice on that who's suing who diagram that if you remove all the people Nokia and Kodak are suing it gets a lot less complicated. Basically leaving Apple, Rim and MS suing a a couple of people each, and a few one-offs for Oracle, Quallcomm, Elan and now Motorola.

Kodak is done, I guess they figure there's life after death in litigation, and Nokia appears desperate.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #32 of 46
10/6/10 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Kodak is done, I guess they figure there's life after death in litigation, and Nokia appears desperate.

So if you developed some technology that you patented, and you felt that someone was using these patents without permission, or compensation, you wouldn't seek compensation, or sue them?
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post #33 of 46
10/6/10 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

So if you developed some technology that you patented, and you felt that someone was using these patents without permission, or compensation, you wouldn't seek compensation, or sue them?

Actually I probably would, but I just think it's telling that the bulk of litigation on that chart is coming from one moribund company and one company that is experiencing unprecedented loss of market share and profits.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #34 of 46
10/6/10 at 7:19pm
I'm having a hard time with 'we engaged in lengthy negotiations'.

Motorola is part of the wireless consortium. Its members are pledged to license their patents at fair and reasonable terms - and EVERYONE has to get the same terms. So what is there to negotiate? Give Apple the same terms as everyone else.

Sounds like another Nokia case. Nokia wanted Apple to pay more than everyone else and got miffed when Apple refused.
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post #35 of 46
10/6/10 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Actually I probably would, but I just think it's telling that the bulk of litigation on that chart is coming from one moribund company and one company that is experiencing unprecedented loss of market share and profits.

So it is only desperate when you say it is? If you have an issue with the suits shown in the "diagram", maybe the person who posted the image, or yourself should list what the actual suits are for.
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post #36 of 46
10/6/10 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Sounds like another Nokia case. Nokia wanted Apple to pay more than everyone else and got miffed when Apple refused.

Again, that was all hearsay, you have no proof of this.
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post #37 of 46
10/6/10 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

I have been watching all of these lawsuit graphics floating around, guess this will require an update.


Nice graphic...

We can make a very interesting observation - all the companies getting sued are doing well, wheras the companies doing the suing look like the have beens in the industry -

Extrapolating this, it looks like shares of Sharp (in Japan), Samsung, LG Group (Korea) and shares of Motorola would be good to own.... and we can short RIM,. Microsoft, Nokia and Kodak against them.

And as a corollary, is Apple share price already at its peak, considering Apple is doing a lot of suing?

Of course, there is a lot more to investing than this sort of finger in the air rule - but nevertheless, this could signal the start of something.
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post #38 of 46
10/6/10 at 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Again, that was all hearsay, you have no proof of this.

Forget proof, it is quite obvious what is going on here...

The entire Wireless Forum is based on the way the industry was in the past - they licensed out their technologies at "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory" rates to everyone - this everyone includes the $15 handset that does just the basic stuff, as well as higher end phones.

Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson and others are caught in a bind here - they get barely $2 for each handset, because that is the maximum that the low priced handsets can bear. Getting $2 from Apple for a $600 iPhone seems pointless, but they have no other option.

This is not so much about money - All these companies are trying to play hardball with Apple, trying to get a cross-licensing deal, where they get access to Apple's multi-touch patents. It is very dicey for Motorola and Nokia to implement Multi-touch because it opens themselves up to a massive risk of a suit from Apple. They thought they can play hardball with Apple, but Apple has shown itself to be a very strong player. Apple knows that if this case goes to court, they will have to pay out - but it will be of the order of $2 per handset - not a big deal. And they will obviously have tons of correspondence to prove that they were always ready to pay $2 per handset, and the only reason why this did not happen so far was because Nokia and Motorola were going against the rules of the Wireless Forum - and trying to get more from Apple. There is no way Apple can get slammed on a wilful violation of patents on this one.

The trouble for Motorola now, is that Apple is definitely going to counter-sue them over the multi-touch implementations in the Droid phones - and that will be a very difficult battle for Motorola to fight.
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post #39 of 46
10/7/10 at 1:40am
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Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Forget proof, it is quite obvious what is going on here...

That sounds like the AI way, forget proof.
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post #40 of 46
10/7/10 at 2:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Forget proof, it is quite obvious what is going on here...

....

Apple knows that if this case goes to court, they will have to pay out - but it will be of the order of $2 per handset - not a big deal. And they will obviously have tons of correspondence to prove that they were always ready to pay $2 per handset, and the only reason why this did not happen so far was because Nokia and Motorola were going against the rules of the Wireless Forum - and trying to get more from Apple.

Quite a lot of assumptions there. Where did you get the 2USD/handset figure? I'd be interested in a source.

It could also be, that Motorola and Nokia are both in the right. Their stories seem very much identical in their lawsuits, negotiations etc. How many manufacturers do you need to come out with near identical stories to be swayed the other way (i.e. Apple doesn't want to pay FRAND)? Would you change your mind if in the next 6 months for example SonyEricsson (owner of many similar GSM and WIFI patents) comes with a similar lawsuit and similar story of failed negotiations? Maybe Qualcomm?

I'm not claiming either case, but you seem to be doing that with very little real evidence. That's why I wanted to point out the other just as propable possibility.

regs, Jarkko
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