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What Can Be Done To End Bullying In Schools and Colleges?

post #1 of 109
Thread Starter 
Rutgers Student Remembered As Shy, Gifted Violinist
by JOEL ROSE

Quote:
The Rutgers University freshman who committed suicide after his sex life was exposed on the Internet is being remembered in his hometown this week as a private young man and a talented musician.

Tyler Clementi, 18, was apparently distraught after his sexual encounter with a man in his dorm room found its way onto the Internet allegedly via Clementi's roommate. He jumped to his death from the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 22; his body was found floating in the Hudson River on Wednesday.

The roommate, Dharun Ravi, and fellow Rutgers freshman Molly Wei, both 18, have been charged with invasion of privacy. Middlesex County prosecutors say the pair used a webcam to surreptitiously transmit a live image of Clementi having sex on Sept. 19, and that Ravi tried to webcast a second encounter on Sept. 21, the day before Clementi's suicide.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=130258242


Whose Job Should It Be To Stop Bullies?
by TANYA BALLARD BROWN

Quote:
Last week nine Massachusetts students were charged in connection with the death of a young woman who committed suicide allegedly because of bullying. The victim, 15-year-old Phoebe Prince, hanged herself on Jan. 14. Officials say Prince was ostracized and subjected to almost three months of vicious bullying after briefly dating a popular guy at her high school.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/tellmemore/...e_to_stop.html


DA To Look Into Suicide Of Teen Said To Be Bullied
by THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Quote:
HOUSTON October 1, 2010, 11:08 pm ET
Prosecutors said Friday they will look into what led to the suicide of a 13-year-old Houston boy whose parents say was relentlessly bullied at his middle school for two years because of his religion and sexual orientation.

Asher Brown's parents, who claim school officials ignored their pleas for help, said they hope "justice will be served" by the investigation by the Harris County District Attorney's Office.

"Once they find out what's been hidden, we would want the people responsible to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law," said Asher's stepfather, David Truong.

Asher shot himself in the head with his stepfather's handgun on Sept. 23 at his family's home.
Truong said his son, a straight-A student who loved to read, had been ridiculed by students at school because he was small, a Buddhist and didn't wear designer clothes. This summer, Asher converted to Christianity in the hope students would no longer make fun of his religion, Truong said.

"What my child went through was not normal in any capacity," Truong said. "It was relentless. It was just day after day and nothing was done and now my son is dead."

Truong said students also made fun of Asher because they believed he was gay. Truong said while he and Asher's mother, Amy, suspected their son was gay, the teen didn't confirm this to him until the day of his suicide.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=130281016

How a cell phone picture led to girl's suicide
By Randi Kaye, AC360° Correspondent
October 7, 2010 3:51 p.m. EDT

Quote:
(CNN) -- At age 13, Hope Witsell struggled in middle school. Not because her class work at Shields Middle School in Ruskin, Florida, was challenging, but because Hope was being bullied.

Her friend, Kyla Stich, told CNN that fellow students would "walk up to her and call her 'slut,' 'whore,' and they would sometimes, they would call her 'skank' and just be really cruel to her."This all started in the spring of 2009 during the last week of school.

Friends and family say Hope had "sexted" a picture of her breasts to her boyfriend. Another girl from school, they say, got her hands on the photo and sent it to students at six different schools in the area.

Before Hope could do anything to stop it, that photo had gone viral.
The school alerted Hope's parents. Her mother, Donna Witsell, told CNN how she learned about the photo.

"The assistant principal had a meeting with my husband and I and pretty much told us that he did not see the image but that he had heard that it was Hope and when he confronted Hope, Hope did not deny it. She wasn't proud of it but she didn't lie," Hope's mother said.

Mrs. Witsell says she had warned her daughter about the dark side of technology, about "some of the pretty sexual images of young girls and guys."

She added, "Hope was very aware of that, of inappropriate dress and most definitely posing."
Still, because of that photo, Hope had become a target for 11-, 12-, and 13-year-old bullies.

Quote:
Editor's note: Bullying is in our schools, and it's online. Why do kids do it? What can be done to put an end to it?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/10/07...ex.html?hpt=C2
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #2 of 109
Again, Sarah Silverman put it very well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Silverman

Dear America, when you tell gay Americans that they can’t serve their country openly or marry the person that they love, you’re telling that to kids too. So don’t be fucking shocked and wonder where all these bullies are coming from that are torturing young kids and driving them to kill themselves because they’re different. They learned it from watching you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM6xb...layer_embedded

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #3 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Again, Sarah Silverman put it very well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM6xb...layer_embedded

The issue is not only with gay or lesbian issue. The issue involves other students as I mentioned in the post. There were cases that I didn't report that involved "Ginger" kids as in South Park. Some kids texted that there was to be a kick a "Ginger" day. The problem of bullying in schools and colleges is intolerable and pervasive.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #4 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Kids at A.E. Wright Middle School in Calabasas hopped on the bandwagon fueled by a Facebook group posting that declared last Friday "Kick a Ginger Day."
Inspired by TV's irreverent Comedy Central show South Park, of which a 2005 episode "focused on prejudice against 'gingers,' a label given to people with red hair, fair skin, and freckles," school-age kids participated in beatings of redheaded classmates, according to KTLA.

Last year a Facebook group sprung up, and on Friday, "at least five attacks on red-haired students" took place at A.E. Wright, including a 7th grader who was "kicked and beaten by 14 classmates in two separate incidents," and three other kids who have come forward. Authorities "are pursuing the investigation as a possible assault with a deadly weapon," though no one required hospitalization.

A search of Facebook reveals that the only groups referencing "Kick a Ginger" remaining on the site are those opposed to the action.

http://laist.com/2009/11/24/kick_a_g...d_at_least.php
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #5 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

The issue is not only with gay or lesbian issue. The issue involves other students as I mentioned in the post. There were cases that I didn't report that involved "Ginger" kids as in South Park. Some kids texted that there was to be a kick a "Ginger" day. The problem of bullying in schools and colleges is intolerable and pervasive.

However, with regard to specifically gay or lesbian bullying, what Sarah Silverman said is very poignant.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #6 of 109
I believe Zero Tolerance plays a role in this issue. The kids who never experience alcohol in a safe environment from as early as 13 or 14, from my experience, are the same kids who go binging once they are free of the strict parental influence in college.

We have a culture that looks to be offended--I'm looking at you Christian Family Groups pouring over tapes of television shows to report to the FCC. A little boob won't harm anyone. A little profanity won't harm anyone. A little ribbing won't harm anyone. But when the tiniest infraction is somehow lumped in with the most egregious of offenses, the message that there are degrees of wrongness gets lost. Kids DO need to learn how to laugh off a little bit of poking fun. But, there is a line somewhere when it no longer is "all in good fun."

We need a more tolerant, accepting society. We also need to collectively grow a thicker skin.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #7 of 109
As we can see from the replies above that "bullying" is a good launching point for everyone's non sequitur to their own issue they like to beat on.
post #8 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

As we can see from the replies above that "bullying" is a good launching point for everyone's non sequitur to their own issue they like to beat on.

Not really. I was bullied at school also because I did not speak English at first and I think it results from one thing: opposition to people who are 'different'. The replies above merely describe how the 'differences' came to be: religion, culture etc (except for the 'pervert' who is merely describing his own state which, unfortunately, is by no means unique).

Bullying does not always happen - you need a school environment, or society, where there is a strong drive to conformism and where difference is resultantly seen as an affront.

Or put another way: in societies or milieus that promote individualism and are inclusive this will not occur.

In ones that promote conformity and herd-mentality then you;d better not be gay, red-headed, foreign or stand out in any way. Even having an above average IQ or a talent (unless it's sports-related) will line you up for getting your head kicked in behind the bike sheds.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #9 of 109

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #10 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Maybe this?

Great idea....if we can just get the Christians to actually follow what they claim to believe we're home dry....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #11 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Not really. I was bullied at school also because I did not speak English at first and I think it results from one thing: opposition to people who are 'different'. The replies above merely describe how the 'differences' came to be: religion, culture etc (except for the 'pervert' who is merely describing his own state which, unfortunately, is by no means unique).

Bullying does not always happen - you need a school environment, or society, where there is a strong drive to conformism and where difference is resultantly seen as an affront.

Or put another way: in societies or milieus that promote individualism and are inclusive this will not occur.

In ones that promote conformity and herd-mentality then you;d better not be gay, red-headed, foreign or stand out in any way. Even having an above average IQ or a talent (unless it's sports-related) will line you up for getting your head kicked in behind the bike sheds.


Bullying happens because people can be cruel.

I mean really? DADT causes bullying? Church folk taking offense to TV shows causes bullying? Zero tolerance causes bullying?


Maybe because I have young kids I see it in them and know how complex/simple it is. They don't know a whip about DADT, church folk or ZT. My three year old will pay a game with four year old next door and gang up on my six year old. Plenty of the these little kids, preschool and Ks, will dive right into the "your not my friend, I don't like you, you can't play with us" over absolutely nothing.

So rather than as adults be so narcissistic to think it's all about us maybe the problem is that kids need help abandoning their juvenile tendency to be cruel and exclusive and transition them to them to being more compassionate and seeing actions from other people's perspective.
post #12 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Great idea....if we can just get the Christians to actually follow what they claim to believe we're home dry....

While I agree that there are some that bully who claim to be Christians...and even are, but have an imperfect and/or distorted execution of their Christian faith, Surely you're not implying that all bullies are Christians are you? Or that all Christians are bullies?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #13 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Bullying happens because people can be cruel.

I mean really? DADT causes bullying? Church folk taking offense to TV shows causes bullying? Zero tolerance causes bullying?

Err...you lost me....what's DADT?

Quote:
Maybe because I have young kids I see it in them and know how complex/simple it is. They don't know a whip about DADT, church folk or ZT.

Nor do I.

Quote:
My three year old will pay a game with four year old next door and gang up on my six year old.

Exactly. To a 4 year old a 6 year old is different..... I bet it's never a 6yrold + 4yr old vs 4 yr old dynamic.

Quote:
Plenty of the these little kids, preschool and Ks, will dive right into the "your not my friend, I don't like you, you can't play with us" over absolutely nothing.

Never over nothing. I know they do this - question is 'why?'. Not enough to say 'over nothing' ...not for me anyway.

Quote:
So rather than as adults be so narcissistic to think it's all about us maybe the problem is that kids need help abandoning their juvenile tendency to be cruel and exclusive and transition them to them to being more compassionate and seeing actions from other people's perspective.

Except it's not just kids is it?

Bullying takes place in the workplace, in the sports stadium, in parliament and on a global stage - just look at the US's foreign policy for a classic textbook example.

Israel takes it to 11 in a different way that kind of redefines the terms too if you're into more extreme examples.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #14 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

While I agree that there are some that bully who claim to be Christians...and even are, but have an imperfect and/or distorted execution of their Christian faith, Surely you're not implying that all bullies are Christians are you? Or that all Christians are bullies?

I am using the term 'Christian' in the broader sense - as in 'Christian values of America'. No-one would assume all Americans are Christians though it is often claimed that American values are.

For example, I myself - though (and this may surprise you) not really a Christian strictly speaking, often behave in a 'Christian' manner (I mean doing something Christ-like...not screaming at gays that they are going to hell, messing around with choirboys or burning Qur'ans or anything like that).

So if we all had a few more 'Christian' virtues whether Christian, Muslim, Satanist or atheist then this sort of thing would disappear.

Maybe.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #15 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Err...you lost me....what's DADT?

"Don't Ask Don't Tell" -- US Military policy regarding homosexuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Bullying takes place in the workplace, in the sports stadium, in parliament and on a global stage - just look at the US's foreign policy for a classic textbook example.

Indeed you're right (though in my own experience I cannot think of many, if any examples, in my workplace). But politics (both domestic and global) are filled with it. The US government has become one of the biggest bullies on the planet. Look at its stance toward Iran or China as simply the most recent examples. Of course the US government also bullies domestically.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #16 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I am using the term 'Christian' in the broader sense - as in 'Christian values of America'. No-one would assume all Americans are Christians though it is often claimed that American values are.

For example, I myself - though (and this may surprise you) not really a Christian strictly speaking, often behave in a 'Christian' manner (I mean doing something Christ-like...not screaming at gays that they are going to hell, messing around with choirboys or burning Qur'ans or anything like that).

So if we all had a few more 'Christian' virtues whether Christian, Muslim, Satanist or atheist then this sort of thing would disappear.

Maybe.

I get what you're saying here. But I feel you didn't really answer my (fairly straightforward questions). Is this deliberate? Do you feel my questions were imprecise, leading or otherwise problematic?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #17 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I get what you're saying here. But I feel you didn't really answer my (fairly straightforward questions). Is this deliberate? Do you feel my questions were imprecise, leading or otherwise problematic?

Oh ok....not imprecise, leading or otherwise problematic - will answer now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Surely you're not implying that all bullies are Christians are you?

No...can't claim that. I think there is overwhelming evidence that some bullies are clearly atheist.

Quote:
Or that all Christians are bullies?

More difficult. On the face of it one is tempted to say no but I think one needs to clarify terms. I think to be a member of certain Christian sects one must be a bully - anyone in Westboro Baptist Church is clearly one no?

Then again there are many Churches where there is not a bully in sight so I guess the answer to this one has to be no as well.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #18 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


Never over nothing. I know they do this - question is 'why?'. Not enough to say 'over nothing' ...not for me anyway.

You don't have children do you? I've been surrounded by children over the las six years. I see them at school, play dates, my front yard, parties are friends houses ...

They play the exclusion game over NOTHING! They may give an excuse but often with kids the reason they come up with has nothing to do with the cause. You're confusing your experience with older kids and adults with what preschoolers are up to.

But isn't it really that people that want to be cruel and exclusive will come up with any reason? You're gay, you're a jew, you're a slut .... I think the "ginger" example highlights my point exactly. The overt reason is meaningless. Kids that want to be cruel will find a reason. They may gravitate to ones that adults are willing to overlook but in the end it could be "you're gay" or "you don't have a star on your belly". It's treating the symptom and not the cause.
post #19 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

You don't have children do you?

Yes, three.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #20 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Yes, three.

Seems like you are not learning a whole lot from them.
post #21 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Seems like you are not learning a whole lot from them.

I think you mean I am not learning from them what you are learning from yours no?

That's obvious really but the interesting question is why you would think I would.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #22 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think you mean I am not learning from them what you are learning from yours no?

That's obvious really but the interesting question is why you would think I would.....

good one!
post #23 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Oh ok....not imprecise, leading or otherwise problematic - will answer now:



No...can't claim that. I think there is overwhelming evidence that some bullies are clearly atheist.

...

Then again there are many Churches where there is not a bully in sight so I guess the answer to this one has to be no as well.

Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think to be a member of certain Christian sects one must be a bully - anyone in Westboro Baptist Church is clearly one no?

To be honest I don't know what the hell Westboro Baptist Church is. I can tell you it is nothing at all like any Christian church I have ever been in or attended and that no one I know to be Christian in my own personal experience and acquaintance would ever agree with or endorse the things they are saying or doing. I'm glad to see that the wider public (and even the media) are wise to the fact that Westboro Baptist Church is not representative of Christianity in any serious way. They are quite disturbing to me.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #24 of 109
This has to stop immediately before it spreads like a cancer.Punish these 2 people who thought it was a big joke to do this to this poor innocent victim for nothing. A precious and for filled life shortened for nothing.
post #25 of 109
Walter E. Williams wrote the following piece, which I believe applies to this tragic situation.

Laws are a poor substitute for common decency, moral values

Quote:
A civilized society's first line of defense is not the law, police and courts but customs, traditions and moral values. Behavioral norms, mostly transmitted by example, word of mouth and religious teachings, represent a body of wisdom distilled over the ages through experience and trial and error. They include important thou-shalt-nots such as shalt not murder, shalt not steal, shalt not lie and cheat, but they also include all those courtesies one might call ladylike and gentlemanly conduct. The failure to fully transmit values and traditions to subsequent generations represents one of the failings of the so-called greatest generation.

Behavior accepted as the norm today would have been seen as despicable yesteryear. There are television debt relief advertisements that promise to help debtors to pay back only half of what they owe. Foul language is spoken by children in front of and sometimes to teachers and other adults. When I was a youngster, it was unthinkable to use foul language to an adult; it would have meant a smack across the face. Back then, parents and teachers didn't have child-raising "experts" to tell them that "time out" is a means of discipline. Baby showers are held for unwed mothers. Yesteryear, such an acceptance of illegitimacy would have been unthinkable.

To see men sitting while a woman or elderly person was standing on a crowded bus or trolley car used to be unthinkable. It was common decency for a man to give up his seat. Today, in some cities there are ordinances requiring public conveyances to set aside seats posted "Senior Citizen Seating." Laws have replaced common decency. Years ago, a young lady who allowed a guy to have his hand in her rear pocket as they strolled down the street would have been seen as a slut. Children addressing adults by first names was unacceptable.

You might be tempted to charge, "Williams, you're a prude!" I'd ask you whether high rates of illegitimacy make a positive contribution to a civilized society. If not, how would you propose that illegitimacy be controlled? In years past, it was controlled through social sanctions like disgrace and shunning. Is foul language to or in the presence of teachers conducive to an atmosphere of discipline and respect necessary for effective education? If not, how would you propose it be controlled? Years ago, simply sassing a teacher would have meant a trip to the vice principal's office for an attitude adjustment administered with a paddle. Years ago, the lowest of lowdown men would not say the kind of things often said to or in front of women today. Gentlemanly behavior protected women from coarse behavior. Today, we expect sexual harassment laws to restrain coarse behavior.

During the 1940s, my family lived in North Philadelphia's Richard Allen housing project. Many families didn't lock doors until late at night, if ever. No one ever thought of installing bars on their windows. Hot, humid summer nights found many people sleeping outside on balconies or lawn chairs. Starting in the '60s and '70s, doing the same in some neighborhoods would have been tantamount to committing suicide. Keep in mind that the 1940s and '50s were a time of gross racial discrimination, high black poverty and few opportunities compared to today. The fact that black neighborhoods were far more civilized at that time should give pause to the excuses of today that blames today's pathology on poverty and discrimination.

Policemen and laws can never replace customs, traditions and moral values as a means for regulating human behavior. At best, the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of defense for a civilized society. Our increased reliance on laws to regulate behavior is a measure of how uncivilized we've become.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #26 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerald apple View Post

This has to stop immediately before it spreads like a cancer.Punish these 2 people who thought it was a big joke to do this to this poor innocent victim for nothing. A precious and for filled life shortened for nothing.

The problem is that this was not an isolated incident. Happens a lot in schools, colleges, in the work place etc. How do we stop it?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #27 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

You don't have children do you? I've been surrounded by children over the las six years. I see them at school, play dates, my front yard, parties are friends houses ...

They play the exclusion game over NOTHING! They may give an excuse but often with kids the reason they come up with has nothing to do with the cause. You're confusing your experience with older kids and adults with what preschoolers are up to.

But isn't it really that people that want to be cruel and exclusive will come up with any reason? You're gay, you're a jew, you're a slut .... I think the "ginger" example highlights my point exactly. The overt reason is meaningless. Kids that want to be cruel will find a reason. They may gravitate to ones that adults are willing to overlook but in the end it could be "you're gay" or "you don't have a star on your belly". It's treating the symptom and not the cause.

Some time kids "grow up", why do some teens and adults continue to bully, why the hatred, bigotry and racism? Does this mean that we failed as parents, have we failed as a society?\
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
Reply
post #28 of 109
In terms of thinking about how to solve this problem we need to first recognize there are two sides of this: the bully and the bullied.

While we might have some disagreement about what exactly constitutes bullying in every situation, were almost certainly all in agreement that bullying is an unacceptable and immoral form of conduct. We are probably all horrified by the most severe consequences (e.g. suicides) that bullying causes.

Having said that there are likely two angles of approach on this problem.

One is on the bullied side. What can be done to arm and equip people of all kinds to, in a sense, "inoculate" themselves emotionally, mentally, spiritually from bullying actions? What are the things that parents can do to best equip their children to resist bullying and the emotional, mental, spiritual effects of it? Don't get me wrong. This isn't a call to just "toughen up." It's a serious question. To a large extent I think one needs to think about defensive measures that can be used to prevent a person from succumbing to these kind of actions. I suggest that this is an absolutely necessary component in the whole equation that cannot be ignored.

Second is the bully side. This is the part that everyone seems to be focusing on now: "How do we stop the bullies?" Again, what are the things that parents can do to better train and discipline (and I mean this in the broader sense than the typical "punishment" aspect this term is used) their children to respect, value and even act in a loving way toward other people regardless of their differences to prevent (or at least reduce) bullying?

What are the foundational world view and philosophical elements that can help on both sides of this equation?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #29 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Some time kids "grow up", why do some teens and adults continue to bully, why the hatred, bigotry and racism? Does this mean that we failed as parents, have we failed as a society?\

Yes. One reason why this is an issue for kids is that we force them together in schools. We do this partly for socialization, right? Outside of school you're not forced to interact with so many people. If I'm at work and someone acts like a raging asshole I'd like to think they'd get fired. It's hard to get fired from public school.


Another aspect of it is that you can never control the actions of others. Parents need to foster relationships with their kids that allow for the kids to come to the parents, and parents to listen, when the kids need help. If you don't have that relationship then it may be too late to help when you find out something is really wrong.
post #30 of 109
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yes. One reason why this is an issue for kids is that we force them together in schools. We do this partly for socialization, right? Outside of school you're not forced to interact with so many people. If I'm at work and someone acts like a raging asshole I'd like to think they'd get fired. It's hard to get fired from public school.

Unless you are home schooled, I think most of us went to public, private or parochial schools, and then college. There is one tendency that I noticed is that there is a trend towards "Mega Schools". See my thread at http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=112561

Overcrowding kids in super-sized schools is only part of the problem though--you think of Columbine. However, bullying happen in smaller schools too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Another aspect of it is that you can never control the actions of others. Parents need to foster relationships with their kids that allow for the kids to come to the parents, and parents to listen, when the kids need help. If you don't have that relationship then it may be too late to help when you find out something is really wrong.

This seems to be more on point, parents need to be involved. But it seems like kids have
become more detached---iPods, computers and TV, hanging out with friends and school. Time seems so compressed--never enough time to talk with the kids.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #31 of 109
Thread Starter 
The suicide of Rutgers student Tyler Clementi has brought more attention to cyberbullying. A new study examines the scale of cyberbullying among US teens.

By Stacy Teicher Khadaroo, Staff writer / October 8, 2010

Quote:
More than half of American teens worry about safety on the Internet and know someone their age who has been targeted by hurtful electronic communications. Nearly a third have been targets themselves.

Those recent survey results, released by the Chicago youth-market research firm TRU, hint at the scale of the problems being addressed more vigorously in the wake of the suicide of Rutgers student Tyler Clementi and other cases of cyberbullying.

When it comes to safety online, young peoples main knowledge gap relates to setting ground rules of whats acceptable behavior ... and how that technology may be used against them ... where they could be blackmailed or cyberbullied, says Richard Harrison, lead mentor for the Safe and Secure Online program, which enlists online security experts to volunteer in schools.

The presentations, given by members of the professional information-security group (ISC)² are aimed primarily at grades 7 to 9. Students discuss scenarios and how to use good everyday judgment to prevent them from reaching the extreme cases they may have heard about in the news.

Parents tend to have these conversations reactively, and often dont realize a gaming device even has Internet capability, Mr. Harrison says. [For a list of parent tips, see below.]

October is designated as both National Cyber Security Awareness Month and National Bullying Prevention Month.

MTV is enlisting young people to set good standards for themselves with a new iPhone and iPad app called Over the Line? Users share and read personal stories about how cell phones and social networking have affected them, then rate whether they think the behavior crossed the line of whats appropriate. A similar Facebook application has had more than 120,000 users. Examples of teens stories range from boyfriends making sex videos in secret and spreading them around school to people being taunted for being gay.

Both of those issues converged at Rutgers University in New Jersey last month, where two students were charged with secretly using a webcam to capture and transmit Mr. Clementis sexual encounter in his dorm room.

Prosecutors recently subpoenaed the university for a complaint Clementi made to a resident assistant about his roommate, Dharun Ravi, spying with a webcam. President Richard McCormick wouldnt comment on the details because of privacy laws, but told reporters Thursday that he believes the school responded appropriately.

It appears that Clementi also reached out to discuss the situation on an online forum for gay men in the days leading up to his suicide.

Quote:
(ISC)² Safe and Secure Online tips for parents

Talk first: Kids are fascinated by what they learn about the world through the Internet, so take the lead and talk with your child to make sure they understand the risks without trying to scare them. They want practical advice aimed at fixing problems, rather than to be warned off of risky activity. They want guidance but they are going to lead the way in our digital world.

Reward sensible behavior: Encourage your child to ask for guidance and discuss problems they may encounter online. This way you foster safe practices and build healthy communications on this important topic.

Computers dont belong in bedrooms: Most kids over 11 say they have computers and laptops in their bedrooms. In one school, 85 percent of over 750 kids said they had personal computers in their bedrooms, with 75 percent of them admitting to being online after 11 p.m. on a school night. Children should not have unsupervised Internet access. Keep computers in family areas.

Dont rely solely on parental controls: These only work for younger children. As soon as they are old enough for sleepovers, they are beyond your protection, so you will need to educate them to be safe.

Understand that any Internet-connected device can have risks: Cell phones, Wi-Fi-enabled handheld gaming devices and eReaders can be used maliciously as well, so treat them as you would a computer and discuss the risks with your children.

(ISC)² is the worlds largest organization of certified cyber security professionals with 70,000 members worldwide. Its Safe and Secure Online program is free to schools. Contact safeandsecure@isc2.org for more information.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #32 of 109

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #33 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Walter E. Williams wrote the following piece, which I believe applies to this tragic situation.

Laws are a poor substitute for common decency, moral values

I would contend that Mormons, in their religious infancy, were bullied because they were different. Now Mormons have grown up and are bullying gay people.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #34 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

In terms of thinking about how to solve this problem we need to first recognize there are two sides of this: the bully and the bullied.

While we might have some disagreement about what exactly constitutes bullying in every situation, were almost certainly all in agreement that bullying is an unacceptable and immoral form of conduct. We are probably all horrified by the most severe consequences (e.g. suicides) that bullying causes.

Having said that there are likely two angles of approach on this problem.

One is on the bullied side. What can be done to arm and equip people of all kinds to, in a sense, "inoculate" themselves emotionally, mentally, spiritually from bullying actions? What are the things that parents can do to best equip their children to resist bullying and the emotional, mental, spiritual effects of it? Don't get me wrong. This isn't a call to just "toughen up." It's a serious question. To a large extent I think one needs to think about defensive measures that can be used to prevent a person from succumbing to these kind of actions. I suggest that this is an absolutely necessary component in the whole equation that cannot be ignored.

Second is the bully side. This is the part that everyone seems to be focusing on now: "How do we stop the bullies?" Again, what are the things that parents can do to better train and discipline (and I mean this in the broader sense than the typical "punishment" aspect this term is used) their children to respect, value and even act in a loving way toward other people regardless of their differences to prevent (or at least reduce) bullying?

What are the foundational world view and philosophical elements that can help on both sides of this equation?

So what I said earlier. Society needs to become more inclusive as a whole while at the same time grow a thicker skin and not look to be offended everywhere one turns.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #35 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I would contend that Mormons, in their religious infancy, were bullied because they were different. Now Mormons have grown up and are bullying gay people.

I would contend that bringing Mormons into this discussion in direct reply to my post - knowing that I am a Mormon - is a bully tactic.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #36 of 109
This is where I contend that you should grow a thicker skin and either stand by your beliefs or stop bullying others.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #37 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This is where I contend that you should grow a thicker skin and either stand by your beliefs or stop bullying others.

Oh, I'm not going to jump off a bridge because of your comments, rest assured. Just pointing out your hypocrisy on the matter.

Apparently it's not okay to bully gay people, but it is okay to bully Mormons. I get it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #38 of 109
I'm not bullying Mormons. I'm pointing out that Mormons are acting like bullies. There's a difference. Mormons are not the victim here anymore. Mormons are the perpetrators now. Mormons victimize gays now.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #39 of 109
Thread Starter 


By MEGHAN BARR, Associated Press Writer

Quote:
MENTOR, Ohio Sladjana Vidovic's body lay in an open casket, dressed in the sparkly pink dress she had planned to wear to the prom. Days earlier, she had tied one end of a rope around her neck and the other around a bed post before jumping out her bedroom window.

The 16-year-old's last words, scribbled in English and her native Croatian, told of her daily torment at Mentor High School, where students mocked her accent, taunted her with insults like "Slutty Jana" and threw food at her.

It was the fourth time in little more than two years that a bullied high school student in this small Cleveland suburb on Lake Erie died by his or her own hand three suicides, one overdose of antidepressants. One was bullied for being gay, another for having a learning disability, another for being a boy who happened to like wearing pink.

StopCyberbulling.org founder Parry Aftab says this is the first time she's heard of two sets of parents suing a school at the same time for two independent cases of bullying or cyberbullying. No one has been accused of bullying more than one of the teens who died.

Barbara Coloroso, a national anti-bullying expert, says the school is allowing a "culture of mean" to thrive, and school officials should be held responsible for the suicides along with the bullies.

"Bullying doesn't start as criminal. They need to be held accountable the very first time they call somebody a gross term," Coloroso says. "That is the beginning of dehumanization."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101008/...lying_one_town
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #40 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm not bullying Mormons. I'm pointing out that Mormons are acting like bullies. There's a difference. Mormons are not the victim here anymore. Mormons are the perpetrators now. Mormons victimize gays now.

I disagree.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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