Apple developed 7-inch iPad alongside current model - rumor - Page 2

the next iPad will have more bells and whistles and will be lighter not smaller.

For the record the Newton 2100 had a 100 dpi screen resolution, not as good as the original iPhone's 163 dpi.

What I'm saying is that seven inches is an awkward size; it's too large to put in your pocket so will still need to be carried in a bag yet be less capable than a 9.7 inch device.

What makes a successful device? It's not the one criterion but the combination of criteria which make for a successful device.

Apple seems to have got the balance right judging from the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad sales figures.

Apple has actively created a new market with its iPad;
all these competitors are simply reacting to an Apple action.
They're playing copycat and catch up and are trying to figure out how they'll fit into this market.

I'm one of the ones who can see the benefits of a 7" iPad-style device
- more portable than the iPad - small enough for a large pocket or purse
- more usable than the iPod Touch/iPhone

- hopefully Apple will push one of these onto the market soon


Another reason for Apple to produce a 7"er is to plug this gap in the market
- otherwise the market will be flooded with Android-powered 7" Tablets, which will gain some share because they can differentiate themselves from the 10" iPad, and 3.5" phones
- a 7" iPad would fill this whole.
- providing a nice spectrum of iOS devices for customers to choose from

I also think Apple should upscale the iPhone to 4.5"-5"
- I'm sure a lot of smartphones will be larger than 3.5" in 2011

As for the 11.6" Mac Book Air
- it would be cool if this was also an iOS device
- a 11.6" iPad with a Keyboard - that would shake up the Netbook market even more....

I am thankful that the iPad has a 9.7" screen. 7" would be too small for reading newspapers and even a little bit small for books. Also, to review documents like PDFs, Word, EXCEL, etc. 7" would not cut it and I would have stuck with the 15" MacBook Pro. I am pretty sure that the BlackBerry tablet will face that issue with anyone who wants to use it for more than just looking up quotes and place trades.

I agree with you.
A 7" iPad would take some of the market away from the Kindle and Nook, and other iPad like devices, but where would the price-point be? The iPad Touch tops out at $399, and the cheapest iPad is at $499. would be taking away from iPod Touch market a bit.

The current iPhone screen should get larger, many more phones out there have larger screens and I think it would be a huge plus for Apple sales.

An 11.6" iOS MBA would be AWESOME! I would totally buy one over the iPad, unless it's over $1000, then you might as well get a MBP. The #1 reason i'm not buy an iPad is the lack of a physical keyboard.

Well, the 32GB iPod touch is $299, and the 32GB iPad is $599 (i.e. a 2:1 difference), so a 32GB 7" iPad could slot in somewhere from $399-499... maybe $449....

For the 11.6" iOS MBA, it shouldn't be priced more than $200 above the equiv iPad, I think
- so, $799 for the 32GB model might be do-able...

Why? You don't like Mac OS?

An iOS MacBook Air would simply be a crippled Mac, IMO. iOS is for touch devices with virtual keyboards, not for Macs.

That part of his comment makes no sense. If its running iOS instead of Mac OS then its not a Mac so it cant be a MacBook Air.

A idea I postulated the other day on the 11.6 MBA rumour after running the numbers and seeing that the 13.3 Mac notebook display resolution in the 11.6 build is in line with the ppi high-resolution displays (which makes it doable for a usable Mac OS X that is not yet RI) and also in line with 9.7 iPads ppi that Apple could do this convertible 11.6 multi-touchscreen MBA that could have jump into an iOS overlay app that worked with iPad apps. The 11.6 display would be bigger, but only by 0.4cm on each short side, the other sides would obviously have more wasted space as this is assumed to be a 16:10 display, not 4:3. iOS and Mac OS use the same foundations and the simulator app already renders the CocoaTouch elements well, allowing for one to use both a mouse or digits as needed).

Seems to me that while this first version is 9.7", there is no reason for it to be either 9.7" again or 7" when bringing out iPad Version 2. Why not 8.5" or 9.2" or 7.9" etc.

What I don't see is Apple feeling compelled to carry something that slots in between the Touch/iPhone and the iPad. It worked out that for its first version, Apple chose to go with the 9.7" form factor but this is a first attempt, and a remarkably polished one at that.

I would agree with the suggestion that Apple wanted the screen to be as large as possible to avoid comparisons with the Touch. Surely a 7" iPad would have been labelled little more than a very large Touch. It's is being dismissed by some, even at 9.7" as just that. But now that the iPad has been successfully launched, that's no longer a concern.

So for Apple it's all about determining what is the optimal size. To me that should be something slightly smaller than the current iPad. I would have argued even smaller would be great but then I checked one out on display and found myself thinking that the 9.7" iPad is not nearly as large as I imagined. The trick is to reduce weight and if it's possible to go with a smaller screen without compromising the usability of the device. Perhaps increasing ppi can compensate for a somewhat smaller screen which would offer gains in terms of weight and easing of handling.

In the end, Apple needs to consider the end result, i.e. make design decisions focused on producing the most usable, enjoyable product possible. You don't succeed in business by making a product that consumers will be tricked into thinking they'd like to have. You succeed by giving them a product that they will be glad they purchased because that leads to repeat business, i.e. brand loyalty. If that means sticking with 9.7", so be it. If it means designing a new unit based around a somewhat smaller screen, so be it.

What Apple will not likely do, however, considering it carries a Touch that tops out at $399 and an iPad starting at $499, is try to shoehorn a third product in there. Tweak the Touch and iPad, sure, to accommodate those who might have issues with the current products, but Apple has never been about having every imaginable market segment covered.

Not surprising- Apple builds many prototypes that it does not use.

I have been reading ebooks on my Palm PDA for 10 years. It is very readable and the picture is sharp. I always get comments that its too small, the screen is not clear blah blah blah. Yet font size is adjustable. Resolution is good also. I still don't understand why people feel the need to have 10 paragraphs on a 'page' in order to read a book. One can only read a paragraph at a time. The rest is just scrolling or page advancing. On a color screen like the iPhone or Touch with good color contrast, reading on a small screen is pleasurable.

A 7 in iPad clone would be a perfect size to compete with ereaders. Its screen is just about the same size. I think Apple went big with their iPad to differentiate it from the ereaders.

I agree. The iPad introduction was preceded by lots of talk of magazine and newspaper subscriptions, for which a large screen may be desirable, but that doesn't mean a smaller one wouldn't be useful.

The iPad is very successful at its current size and I see absolutely no reason there shouldn't be a smaller one too. If anyone has a really good reason, let's hear it. I haven't heard a good reason yet.

I think an iOS MacBook Air (which if one was anally retentive one would want to classify as a non-MacBook) would be more interesting that just a 11.6" version of the current MBA.
- because I don't think the current MBA offers a particularly strong proposition to the customer....
- it's thin, but way too costly (IMO)
- and a 11.6" version is likely to be the same...

An 11.6" iOS device, with a keyboard & touchscreen could be much more cost-effective.
- not able to run OSX apps, but able to run iOS apps, which is probably what's needed for most of the potential users of such a device.

Ok, that's a valid argument.

I don't really believe the price of the MBA is based on its cost but rather mostly the Apple tax. If netbooks can be sold for $300, surely Apple can sell a nice small lightweight Mac portable for three or four times that, but they won't. They must charge five times for the Air and it's not really that small!

But this is off-topic. If Apple introduces a new smaller iPad I might be tempted. I kinda liked my iPod touch but it was too small and the current iPad is too big (for what it is) IMO.

Great argument¡ The CPU alone in the MBA costs more than most netbooks at retail.

And your point is...

Let’s see... You’re trying to paint the MacBook as being some equivalent to netbooks when nothing about the product is speced, classed or marketed like a shitty little netbook. If you want to compare the MBA to others in its class and market there are several products to choose from, all of which have followed Apple into this new ultra-light notebook market and all of which cost more the the MBA the last time I checked. So much for that Apple tax.

No, not really. I was just saying Apple could, if it wanted to, make a nice small light notebook Mac for much, much less than $1500. And I suggested three to four times as much money as a netbook easily doable, IMO. Instead, Apple makes this high end luxury thing that few people want at its price.

But again, wrong thread.

Of course they could. I dont know of anyone who thinks Apple doesnt have the ability to make a $300 netbook or anything else in between. Their objection obviously is based on considerations other than difficulty. If you are suggesting that they "should because they could or they should because some customer wants them to and the customer is always right I dont feel those are viable philosophies for any company to practice.

Samurai1999 suggested that an iOS based Macbook Air could be cheaper than a Mac OS based MacBook Air. I merely tried to suggest that wasn't all there was to it.

I"ve generally always understood "the Apple tax" to refer to some perceived price premium tacked onto the same or equivalent hardware, as sold by other vendors-- not simply that Apple makes relatively expensive, relatively highly specced machines.

In other words, the price of the MBA vs. the average netbook has nothing to do with any "Apple tax", at least as I understand the term.

Then my bad, but not that your use of the term “Apple tax” indicated to me that the device is pointlessly overpriced, not pointless over engineered for it’s niche market. I’ve never heard the term used as you are apparently using it.


edit: Pipped by addabox.

Thank you for clarifying. I think I used the "term" incorrectly although I'm not convinced the MacBook Air is really worth $1500 either. I certainly wouldn't buy one. I have a 13" MBP instead but I sure wish it was smaller and lighter.

If indeed Apple made an iOS notebook with a real keyboard and trackpad that weighed around two pounds for $600-800, I'd be very interested. The problem is, it would be touch-based and I have no interest in touching the screen of my laptop computer.

So you'd be very interested, but you wouldn't buy one?

I don't know...maybe. Currently I use a MacBook Pro and a netbook for my portable needs. Neither one is ideal but neither is the iPad.

I couldn't help but notice the contradiction. It's one thing to believe that Apple should cater to your whims, but yet another to then say that you're not sure you'd buy the product even if they did. I hope that makes it clear why Apple can't release every product that anyone can imagine might be a nice idea.

Why do I feel like I'm being ganged up on here tonight?

This is a discussion forum where people post thoughts, talk of rumors, wish lists, etc. Just because I want a reasonably priced lightweight notebook from Apple doesn't mean I have to promise to buy one sight unseen, does it?

I've bought dozens and dozens of computers and products from Apple over the years. Yes, I want them to make products that they don't currently. So what?

Kind of like Windows 3.1?

Steve's not into the OLPC or $100 tablet business.

I know the feeling. Sorry about that.

Sure, it's fair to fantasize, especially in a place like this. I suppose I was reacting, perhaps unfairly, to something I hear so often on these boards, which is some variation on "if I can think of it, Apple has to sell it, or they've failed." Maybe that's not what you were saying. But you did admit that this fantasy product isn't one you'd necessarily buy yourself, so that does argue against it becoming a reality.

the ipad >>>I touch world could very well take over the iphone as the highest profit device n the apple line up
highest profit as in largest number's sold with smallest headaches

In fact with the advent of free personal WIFI or Cheap MI-FI LIKE solutions >> ie: Using the IPAD/ITOUCH for cheap/free face time phone calls w/ no contract may be the answer the android could never approach .

HAVING 3 Itouch sizes and 2 Pad sizes
could very well open up dozens of industry wide
adoption and give apple scores of orders that exceed 10,000. at a clip. The INDIA school system could but 2 million A year .


Andriod has 12 vendors 4 app stores and msft coming to splinter it even more
good luck with that.

9

All this 11.6" iOS 'MBA' talk is a bit off-topic, but I just dropped it in because I thought it was an interesting idea.
- and judging by the comments, some people think it's a good idea, and some think it's a non-starter, which is fine by me.

Apple is doing a lot of interesting stuff at the moment, and successfully re-defining multiple markets, and I see no harm in speculating what they might do in the future.

Yes, a 7 inch Pad would make a better FaceTime device. You could hold it further away from your face, so there would be less mug-shot effect. And the miniPad could be held more easily for the back camera -- it'd be a great view camera as well .

As an iPad user from day one, I can say that the number one joy of the portable all-screen device is 'holding the internet in your hands,' as more than one Apple exec said. That's what grows on you when you start carrying it around, and it's why I would never want to be without one. i never felt that way about the touch, because the screen is too small.

A 7 inch would be even handier, and large enough to see. I'd buy one and leave the 9.7 at home for my wife.

Those thoughts make the idea seem even more appealing. I had been wondering how easy or difficult it might be to shoot a picture using a 10" iPad but a 7" model would seem like a snap. I wonder if a 7" model would be easily palmable...in other words holding it with a thumb on one edge and a couple of finger tips on the other? Seems that would be a more secure way using it when you're standing.

cool
how is your WI FI connection ??


9

I understand what is meant by lighter but what do you mean by smaller? Smaller screen? Thinner? Keyboard free?

The questions are brought up to get a better idea of what you want because, a thinner & small MBP is very possible with technology that is to launch this quarter. I'm talking here of AMDs Fusion line up based on the Bobcat core.

As to AIR I have to agree the price is a joke and frankly has to be the worst computer deal on the market. It isn't an Apple tax in this case but rather Apple being full of themselves.

Many people out here in Apple land would be interested. I think that is a very possible price target with Apple delivering a quality machine at that price. The key here is high integration devices and getting rid of the optical drive. A SoC like the Bobcat based Fusion plus plenty of space for a battery would result in a reasonably powerful laptop with better than Netbook performance. The key here though is the low cost to manufacture and thus low selling point. It might even allow Apple to put an IPS LCD in the thing. Especially if the entire logic board can be had for less than $100.

It doesn't have to be iOS based, it just needs a chip product and configuration that lowers the selling point. It sort of sucks but Intel has had little competition in the mobile space for a couple of years now. That has resulted in incredibly expensive laptop parts for no other reason than that they could get away with it. Even if Apple doesn't adopt Bobcat/Fusion for a very small laptop the fact that it exists will put a lot of pressure on Intels pricing. It isn't just ATOM that will come under pressure as the CULV line up and even Arondale will feel the pressure.

That isn't to say that the Bobcat CPU will be the performance leader up against every Intel offering as it is obvious it won't be in every case. Rather it is what the chip delivers overall that makes these SoC so compelling in low end machines. The attraction will be hard to mis by both the consummers and the manufactures.

Maybe Apple doesn't want to play in this ultra small market. It is hard to say but the rumor mill is inviting with speculation of a smaller AIR. More importantly a lower cost AIR.

I do hope Apple has the wisdom to put in a 3G/4G modem! That would be a very very desirable travel machine.


Dave

A View Camera is a wocerful tool but a IApad with a cell phone camera chip would never pass as such a camera. As useful as a big ground glass is for composing the picture, it is the mechanical movements that make the view camera a powerful tool.

Given all of that if Apple wanted to throw their technical skills at redefning this photography sub group, I'd say go ahead. The problem is we would be talking about 40 MegaPixel and larger sensors and fine mechanics beyound what even Apple currently sells.

Interesting but that is the way I feel about my iPhone. That ability to get to the internet anywhere is extremely endearing.

Yep something in that range would be very handy indeed. Sure the larger screen on the current iPad is nice but I cant help to think that it is to close to laptop size for many uses. Of course for other uses the iPad is currently the best trade off on the market.

A sub 7" device is however far more portable. I just hope they don't screw up the aspect ratio. The smaller the device the less appealing the 4:3 ratio in my mind. I know this brings on heated arguements but guys would you look at a column of text in a book, magazine or newspaper first. Please! The desire here is for increased usability in the form factor, not just good movie play back. Speaking of which movie playback isn't nothing to sneeze at either. Put an AppleTV app in the thing would lead to much happiness too.


Dave

How about a full featured 7 inch iPad for the same price as the bigger one?

A deluxe little one with a retina display, for the same money? 3G, 128 Gigs, nice display, 16x9 for the same money?

Maybe some exclusive apps thrown in for free? Ones that are not now available on the big one or the iTouch? Free turn-by-turn directions and a "free" car dock?

How about a year of free streaming music from the new Apple Data Center? Maybe this one will be able to be used as a phone with an included BluTooth headset?

Or they could market it as optimized for reading books, and include some sort of iBooks tie-in, even market it loaded up with Stephen King's books, or some other popular schlock author, like they did the iPod with U2 a few years ago.

If I had the choice between the current iPod and a more full featured 7 inch 16x9 model for the same price, I'd snap up the 7 incher.

While I no longer use my PalmOS devices, I used to read novel after novel on them, and I still read books on m iPhone.

The format is unimportant. Once you are immersed in the world of a good novel, the reading part slips away. If you had to constantly fight to see the words, it would be different. But IMO, anything that allows me to scan the sentences easily is effective to transport me to Lothlorien or into a world where there can exist a comedy of manners or to communicate to me the intricacies of string theory.

Sure it is. It is a lightweight, limited capability machine. Small and easy to carry. Does pretty much almost everything a bigger heavier machine does, maybe a bit slower for some stuff.

It is exactly like a netbook, just much more expensive.

Of course, it is missing lots of stuff that many netbooks include, like an HDMI out for hooking up to the rest of the home's electronics, and ethernet for transferring gigs of data, and a decently large hard drive combined with eSata for accessing archived materials, but that's just typical Apple limitations, and Apple customers kind of expect that.