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The Pelosi and Obama thread. - Page 3

post #81 of 126
So the Republicans take the House and the Democrats remain in control of the Senate and the Executive Branch. Paul leads the Tea Party presence into Congress. Pelosi, Boxer and Reid all survive, which I'm not sure is really a good thing [long-term] for the Democrats. Rubio goes to the Senate, and possibly thereafter to the Presidential contest.

Am I missing anything? What else does this election bring that alters the political landscape?
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post #82 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

So the Republicans take the House and the Democrats remain in control of the Senate and the Executive Branch. Paul leads the Tea Party presence into Congress. Pelosi, Boxer and Reid all survive, which I'm not sure is really a good thing [long-term] for the Democrats. Rubio goes to the Senate, and possibly thereafter to the Presidential contest.

Am I missing anything? What else does this election bring that alters the political landscape?

It gives the Republicans the House which means Obama needs to actually appoint reasonable judicial nominees. Also it gives the Republicans some say so on budgeting matters. They have enough control to press and alter an agenda but not enough to be held responsible which I think is a pretty good spot to be in for 2012.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #83 of 126
That's my first thought as well. This isn't the Clinton situation where he could blame it all on the extremist Newt GIngrich and his Republican Congress. So Obama has to modify his agenda, with a severely chastened Reid and Pelosi in tow, and could still end up with the blame when things go wrong.

That's a bad position to be in. Comparisons with Clinton's comeback are off the mark.
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post #84 of 126
There are other reasons to be skeptical of a Clintonian comeback for Obama. Chief among this is attitude. Clinton was (and is a brilliant politician.) He seemed to truly understand the political gamesmanship. He was also enamored with being President and largely unprincipled, so jettisoning any "principles" or "values" he held in order to change and adjust for re-election was probably a no-brainer for him.

Obama seems like a different story. First there seems to be a profound arrogance and smugness about him. He seems to have something of a "I'm the king of the world" attitude. This is revealed in more than one statement he's made to the opposition party. His overall political "strategy" has been to blame others when things go wrong and take credit when things go right. Granted, most politicians act similarly, but he has been so much more obvious and transparent in this tactic. Finally, he's just convinced he's right (about almost everything) and that those who are opposed to what he thinks and does are simply irrational, fearful, etc. He seems much less likely to adjust for re-election.

Plus, the country is in a deep enough mess, I really don't know if it will be turned around by his re-election time.

The real question is whether he will stay to "fight the good fight" or simply walk away to avoid an embarrassing election ass-kicking that renders him not much more than a historical footnote (and cautionary tale.)

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post #85 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

There are other reasons to be skeptical of a Clintonian comeback for Obama. Chief among this is attitude. Clinton was (and is a brilliant politician.) He seemed to truly understand the political gamesmanship. He was also enamored with being President and largely unprincipled, so jettisoning any "principles" or "values" he held in order to change and adjust for re-election was probably a no-brainer for him.

Obama seems like a different story. First there seems to be a profound arrogance and smugness about him. He seems to have something of a "I'm the king of the world" attitude. This is revealed in more than one statement he's made to the opposition party. His overall political "strategy" has been to blame others when things go wrong and take credit when things go right. Granted, most politicians act similarly, but he has been so much more obvious and transparent in this tactic. Finally, he's just convinced he's right (about almost everything) and that those who are opposed to what he thinks and does are simply irrational, fearful, etc. He seems much less likely to adjust for re-election.

Plus, the country is in a deep enough mess, I really don't know if it will be turned around by his re-election time.

The real question is whether he will stay to "fight the good fight" or simply walk away to avoid an embarrassing election ass-kicking that renders him not much more than a historical footnote (and cautionary tale.)

Republican.
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post #86 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It gives the Republicans the House which means Obama needs to actually appoint reasonable judicial nominees. Also it gives the Republicans some say so on budgeting matters. They have enough control to press and alter an agenda but not enough to be held responsible which I think is a pretty good spot to be in for 2012.

They can seen as draging their heels so the not responsible part I think is wishful thinking.
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post #87 of 126
I see jimmac is back. I wonder what he has to say about the "wishful thinking" that some expressed (in the form of election predictions) about the Democrats getting their asses kicked?

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post #88 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

There are other reasons to be skeptical of a Clintonian comeback for Obama. Chief among this is attitude. Clinton was (and is a brilliant politician.) He seemed to truly understand the political gamesmanship. He was also enamored with being President and largely unprincipled, so jettisoning any "principles" or "values" he held in order to change and adjust for re-election was probably a no-brainer for him.

I have no love for Clinton, but he was a masterful politician (as well as a consummate liar). He could have been remembered as a great statesman though - if only he had kept his pants zipped. Other than being enamored with being President, there is no comparison to Obama. None. He may have been a leftist, but in the end, Clinton was pragmatic. He opposed the Republican dominated Congress after 1994, but eventually realized the futility of doing so. In the light of increasing public disapproval, he wisely concluded he had more to gain by working with them. Obama will not.

I don't see the Rs bending to Obama's will either. They have more to gain by remaining entrenched in the principles that got them elected, illustrating at every opportunity the reasons Republicans need the White House and Congress.

Quote:
Obama seems like a different story. First there seems to be a profound arrogance and smugness about him. He seems to have something of a "I'm the king of the world" attitude. This is revealed in more than one statement he's made to the opposition party. His overall political "strategy" has been to blame others when things go wrong and take credit when things go right.

I must have missed the part about things going right

Quote:
Finally, he's just convinced he's right (about almost everything) and that those who are opposed to what he thinks and does are simply irrational, fearful, etc. He seems much less likely to adjust for re-election.

If you don't agree with Obama, you're stupid, irrational, racist, uninformed, and clinging to your guns and religion: Julian Robertson: Obama Is Cocky And Always Thinks He's The Smartest Man In The Room. If all else fails just blame Bush.

Quote:
The real question is whether he will stay to "fight the good fight" or simply walk away to avoid an embarrassing election ass-kicking that renders him not much more than a historical footnote (and cautionary tale.)

Given O's supersized ego, what's more likely: retiring at the top of his game, so he can continue to lecture us, nose in the air and index finger pointed skyward at $500,000 per speech, or flight a bloody reelection campaign, with the Democrats wondering... what was so bad about Hillary?
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post #89 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I see jimmac is back. I wonder what he has to say about the "wishful thinking" that some expressed (in the form of election predictions) about the Democrats getting their asses kicked?


Show where I said they wouldn't lose the house? Everything went pretty much as expected.

If they'd won the Senate ( Which I said at one point " I doubt " ) then they would have gotten their " asses kicked ".

Republican.
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post #90 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Show where I said they wouldn't lose the house? Everything went pretty much as expected.

If they'd won the Senate ( Which I said at one point " I doubt " ) then they would have gotten their " asses kicked ".



GOP soars in House, state races; Democrats expected to keep Senate:

Quote:
Voters' anger over a stubborn jobless rate and anxiety over troubled economy helped propel Republicans to a sweeping takeover of the U.S. House of Representatives and a stronger presence in state offices, projections indicate.

With results still coming in, the full extent of the Republican takeover of the 435-member House was still to be determined. But CNN projected that Republicans would win at least 60 more House seats than they currently hold to wipe out the Democratic majority of the past four years.

Democrats cling onto their majority in the Senate, though in smaller numbers, according to projections based on CNN analysis of exit poll data from Tuesday's midterm elections. Democrats were guaranteed of holding at least 50 of the 100 Senate seats, with a handful of close races still outstanding, according to the projections.


Quote:
An energized conservative electorate, fueled by the anti-establishment Tea Party movement that emerged in 2009, helped Republicans to what could be the biggest house gain by any major party since 1948.


Quote:
Conservative candidates also made strong gains in state legislatures. The Republican State Leadership Committee estimated that at least 16 state legislative chambers had moved from Democratic to Republican control in Tuesday's voting.


I can't find the article I read last night that indicated a great degree of concern among high level Democrats close to or at the White House.

Most major (liberal) news outlets are also aware of the significance of what happened last night.

This was an ass-kicking. Could it have been a bigger ass-kicking? Sure. But this was an ass-kicking just about anyway you slice it. You have to also look at some key races that the Democrats lost like Russ Feingold in WI, Obama's old seat in IL, the Senate seat in PA. And there were a couple of others that were close calls (CA and NV.)

Oh yeah, and there are still several undecided races: 2 senate races (WA and CO) and 12 house races. This could end up getting a bit worse.

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post #91 of 126


Even if the Democrats are able to get a majority in the House in 2012, NP is gone and will not return as Speaker---even some of the Dems did not like her and probably blame her and the President for the loss.



House loss could propel Pelosi into retirement
By Carolyn Lochhead
San Francisco Chronicle

Quote:
Pelosi's allies, perhaps offering a clue to her thinking, cite the example of legendary Texas Democrat Sam Rayburn, who twice lost the majority but came back as speaker a record three times from 1940 until his death in 1961.

Quote:
Many analysts believe Pelosi's political career could end Tuesday. Her national popularity is in the basement. She has become a symbol of Democratic excesses, much like Gingrich once was for Republicans, a radioactive "San Francisco liberal" from whom moderate Democrats in marginal districts are fleeing.

Quote:
Embattled Democrats running away from Pelosi "are obviously getting polling data that indicates any association with her is politically dangerous," Pitney said, "and when that happens, a leader's hold on power is in jeopardy."

Quote:
The hard climb back to a majority would require recruiting, as Pelosi once did, of the very centrists and conservatives who now consider her an albatross.



HILARIOUS!: Greatest Lines About GOP Win, Pelosi Loss (Jimmy Kimmel)
By Debbie Schlussel

Quote:
The two greatest, most hilarious lines about last nights GOP wins in the U.S. House came from Jimmy Kimmel on Jimmy Kimmel Live:

* I think I saw a tear rolling down Nancy Pelosis ear.

* So, the Democrats lost the House. Everyone else in America lost theirs. So why shouldnt the Democrats lose theirs, too?
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #92 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Show where I said they wouldn't lose the house? Everything went pretty much as expected.

If they'd won the Senate ( Which I said at one point " I doubt " ) then they would have gotten their " asses kicked ".

Republican.

I'd love to see where you predicted the Republicans would swing 60+ seats, create the largest swing in seats in 70 years, and easily beat what they did in 1994 even though Democrats knew it was coming.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #93 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'd love to see where you predicted the Republicans would swing 60+ seats, create the largest swing in seats in 70 years, and easily beat what they did in 1994 even though Democrats knew it was coming.

Yeah, here are a couple of other posts from the past that demonstrate his generally weak prognostication skills (or perhaps blindness resulting from Partisan Polarity Disorder):

Last November suggesting that it was "wishful thinking" that liberals being voted out was any kind of leading indicator.

In January suggesting that it was "wishful thinking" that the polls at that time were a good indicator of things to come.

In February suggesting that it was "wishful thinking" that any of the polls at that time indicated changes might be coming in future election and also that "the Tea Party don't have a chance of course."

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post #94 of 126
The Tea Party has just begun:

Quote:
A little over a year ago, Nancy Pelosi, then Speaker of the House of Representatives, launched an attack on the "un-American" Tea Party movement. "We call it Astroturf," she said. "It's not really a grassroots movement."

Today Pelosi is former Speaker and a carpet of what she dismissed so haughtily as Astroturf is being laid on the floors of both chambers of Congress. Tea Party-backed politicians Marco Rubio in Florida, Rand Paul in Kentucky, Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania, the list goes on are no longer shouting into megaphones in windswept parking lots; they are packing their bags for Washington and sharpening their flick-knives for the bloody battles ahead.

The Tea Party movement, which 21 months ago did not exist, and which has been widely derided and ridiculed by those who thought they knew best, can no longer be ignored. Once seen as little more than fodder for Saturday Night Live and the Daily Show, it is now a voice that will dominate congressional debates and direct budget deliberations.

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post #95 of 126


Apparently not.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi to seek minority leader post
By Paul Kane and Perry Bacon Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, November 6, 2010; 8:29 PM

Quote:
Rejecting demands that she relinquish power after her party's losses in the midterm elections, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced Friday that she will run for minority leader, potentially setting up an ideological battle within the Democratic membership....

Several Democrats called this week for the Californian to step aside after the defeat of at least 60 Democrats and the return of the House to GOP control. Others said the same thing in private, describing a feeling of frustration with her tough, uncompromising leadership style. Senior Democratic aides said Friday that she will face some opposition in the secret ballot likely to be held the week of Nov. 15....

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #96 of 126

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #97 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

John Boehner to fly commercial as speaker

What a difference an election makes.

Two million?

Obama's trip to India is costing us $200 million. A day.

US to spend $200 mn a day on Obama's Mumbai visit
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post #98 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Two million?

Obama's trip to India is costing us $200 million. A day.

US to spend $200 mn a day on Obama's Mumbai visit

In case you didn't get the memo:

Debunking the myth: The cost of Obama's trip to Asia
November 05, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff


Quote:
President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama board Air Force One on Friday to begin a trip to Asia.

It's a story that originated from a single, unnamed sourced in India -- but it quickly gained momentum, spreading like wildfire among critics of the Obama administration in the United States and eventually, the airwaves.

The claim: The United States will be "spending a whopping $200 million per day" on President Barack Obama's trip to Asia.

That's roughly the amount the federal government spends each day on the war in Afghanistan. The figure has been dismissed by the White House as "wildly inflated."

This was old news four or five days ago.

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #99 of 126
Careful john galt, you have just been called out by FT, the "Official PO debunker".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #100 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Careful john galt, you have just been called out by FT, the "Official PO debunker".


OK then, it's enough that he's out of the country. Whatever the cost, it's worth it
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post #101 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Careful john galt, you have just been called out by FT, the "Official PO debunker".

I only got the unofficial title by totally debunking jazzguru in the Climategate thread. Why you bring it up here is maybe as tm believes, your trolling.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #102 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

OK then, it's enough that he's out of the country. Whatever the cost, it's worth it

Who's out of the country? I'm here----oh you mean the President---not to clear from your comment.

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #103 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

I only got the unofficial title by totally debunking jazzguru in the Climategate thread. Why you bring it up here is maybe as tm believes, your trolling.

Yeah, you totally debunked me, man. Good job.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #104 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Yeah, you totally debunked me, man. Good job.

Well Thanks---wasn't hard at all.
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post #105 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Well Thanks---wasn't hard at all.

I'm sure it wasn't.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #106 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I'm sure it wasn't.

No, it wasn't hard at all. The stuff you posted wasn't science.....oh wrong thread....Can't believe that you made more comments here than you did in Climategate

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #107 of 126

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #108 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Pelosi elected minority leader


Hope and More of the Same!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #109 of 126


Donnelly votes against Pelosi

Quote:
Nancy Pelosi was elected this week to lead Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives during the next Congress that convenes in January.

But she did so without the support of Rep. Joe Donnelly, D-Granger, who issued a statement saying he cast his vote for Rep. Heath Shuler, D-N.C., to be the House minority leader.

Pelosi, D-Calif., has been House speaker for the past four years. Donnelly said Wednesday that House Democrats need a change in leadership after they lost more than 60 seats, and their House majority, in the midterm elections earlier this month.

Quote:
The millions of Americans who voted in the recent election made their desires clear: It is time for a new direction, he said.

I am disappointed that Speaker Pelosi did not choose to step aside and allow a new voice to lead this party, he continued. With my vote today, I endorsed an agenda of moderation and the idea that one of the Democratic Partys great strengths - its diverse range of views - should be reflected in the composition of our leadership in the House of Representatives.
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post #110 of 126
Quote:
Donnelly said Wednesday that House Democrats need a change in leadership after they lost more than 60 seats, and their House majority, in the midterm elections earlier this month.

Elections aren't her job.

The Speaker's job is to ensure the House passes legislation supported by the majority party. In that role she has been remarkably effective: her party passed some of the most wildly unpopular legislation in history, including cap-and-tax, unprecedented taxpayer bailouts, and Obamacare.

They should be completely delighted with her.
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post #111 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

...including cap-and-tax...

Such as?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #112 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Such as?



H.R. 2454:
\t
American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

Quote:
Jun 26, 2009: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The totals were 219 Ayes, 212 Nays, 3 Present/Not Voting.
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post #113 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post


What become law?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #114 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post



H.R. 2454:
\t
American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

Nothing happened with that. It stalled in the senate.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #115 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Nothing happened with that. It stalled in the senate.

Umm... the Senate's not her job either
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post #116 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john galt View Post

Umm... the Senate's not her job either

Fine.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #117 of 126
HORROR: Nancy Pelosi to fly commercial

Quote:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) will give up more than just the majority in the next Congress – she’ll be stripped of her right to use military aircraft.

Since becoming speaker in 2007, Pelosi has used Air Force jets for flights back to her San Francisco district, and for other domestic travel. But once she becomes minority leader, Pelosi will be flying commercial, just like her congressional colleagues and most voters, her office told Politics Daily.

Only the speaker is afforded the right to use the military aircraft, Pelosi’s office told POLITICO.

Speaker-in-waiting John Boehner (R-Ohio) has said he would not be using military planes for his domestic travel. “Over the last 20 years, I have flown back and forth to my district on commercial aircraft, and I am going to continue to do that,” Boehner said earlier this month.

Before flying back to his district last Friday, Boehner was spared the Transportation Security Administration screening that other passengers on the flight out of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport had to undergo. (See: A 'tipping point' in terror fight?)

Pelosi’s predecessor as speaker, former Rep. Denny Hastert (R-Ill.), started using an Air Force jet for security reasons following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #118 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

HORROR: Nancy Pelosi to fly commercial

Boehners from Ohio. Sheesh. With all the rights focus on this I'm surprised Boehner doesn't just walk back.

"The facts are simple: since 9/11, for obvious security reasons, the Speaker of the House of Representatives (who is next in line behind the Vice President to become President) has flown on government rather than commercial aircraft. Speaker Pelosi is from California, so with the House now back to a five-day workweek the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Representatives requested a jet that can make it to California non-stop. According to the Sergeant-at-Arms,

"The fact that Speaker Pelosi lives in California compelled me to request an aircraft that is capable of making non-stop flights for security purposes, unless such an aircraft is unavailable."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-j...a_b_41145.html
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #119 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Boehners from Ohio. Sheesh.

"The facts are simple: since 9/11, for obvious security reasons, the Speaker of the House of Representatives (who is next in line behind the Vice President to become President) has flown on government rather than commercial aircraft. Speaker Pelosi is from California, so with the House now back to a five-day workweek the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Representatives requested a jet that can make it to California non-stop. According to the Sergeant-at-Arms,

"The fact that Speaker Pelosi lives in California compelled me to request an aircraft that is capable of making non-stop flights for security purposes, unless such an aircraft is unavailable."
~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-j...a_b_41145.html

It's okay. We get the fact that there's always an excuse. Always a reason. \

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #120 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It's okay. We get the fact that there's always an excuse. Always a reason. \

So now that the Senator will fly commercial....."Excuse me mam full body scan or grope?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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