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The American Left Slides Into Psychosis - Page 7

post #241 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

No, I do not believe in eugenics[now you know a little more about me]. Try this as a definition---I provided it ealier:



You still haven't provided what mj and I have asked, have you?

If we cannot agree on a definition, then what good would the proof be?

My definition is cited as coming from Unified Medical Language System (Psychological Index Terms) National Library of Medicine. Can you agree to it or not?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #242 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

If we cannot agree on a definition, then what good would the proof be?

My definition is cited as coming from Unified Medical Language System (Psychological Index Terms) National Library of Medicine. Can you agree to it or not?

Ok, lets roll with your definition then. Now you have no reason not to provide the information that I and mj asked for, do you----let's not concern ourselves what mj's definition of eugenics are, I'm sure mj won't object about the semantics.



I CAN WAIT UNTIL
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #243 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Ok, lets roll with your definition then. Now you have no reason not to provide the information that I and mj asked for, do you----let's not concern ourselves what mj's definition of eugenics are, I'm sure mj won't object about the semantics.



I CAN WAIT UNTIL

Good now, step two, do you consider practices to be human action and policies? Also do you consider it elitism when you have an entity claim to represent the interests of a human party even when those parties do not desire to have their representation?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #244 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Good now, step two, do you consider practices to be human action and policies? Also do you consider it elitism when you have an entity claim to represent the interests of a human party even when those parties do not desire to have their representation?

GOT TIRED OF WAITING SO I FOUND THIS FOR YOU.

Meet Jim Russell, the Eugenics Supporting Racist the Republicans Are Running in*NY-18

by john

Quote:
Update: The Republicans are now apparently trying to distance themselves from this perennial Republican candidate. But theyre sticking with Paladino.

Via Digby, The Albany Project has the skinny on this troglodyte, who just happens to be the Republican candidate for congress in New Yorks 18th district

GOP House hopeful Jim Russell praised racist practices, advocated eugenics in 2001 essay

Quote:
A New York Republican hoping to displace the long-serving Democratic Rep. Nita Lowey will face an increasingly steep climb to electoral victory thanks to a revelation by Politico's Maggie Haberman, who dug up some of his published works and noted a number of distinctly racist elements in a 2001 piece published by the right-wing Occidental Quarterly.
Jim Russell, who enjoys the support of his state's Republican Party and conservative establishment, has maintained a strongly anti-immigrant stance in his campaign against Lowey, who defeated him in 2008.

The same could be said of his 2001 essay for Occidental [PDF link], titled "The Western Contribution to World History," which advises parents to establish "appropriate ethnic boundaries" for their children, and criticizes the film "Save the Last Dance" for depicting an interracial relationship.
He also opined against the racial integration of public schools and praised two individuals for their antisemitic ideas on how to limit the spread of Jews.

THE WESTERN CONTRIBUTION TO WORLD HISTORY

Quote:
The current of misdirected altruism that permeates contemporary Western society is dangerous when it is divorced from biological reality. It would be better to ignorantly adhere to the laws of human evolution, as do most primitive peoples, than to understand these laws and yet deliberately disobey them. It would be most tragic if the people who discovered the theory of evolution were to perish due to a failure of will to apply it to their own destiny.

It is our duty to maintain and advance the Western continuum that originated in ancient Greece and earlier. To falter at this critical juncture is to allow our people to approach extinction. The greatest achievement of the West will be our extrication from our current dilemma. If we succeed in our efforts, the chroniclers of this age will celebrate our valiant struggle in the epic literature of the future if we fail, there will be no such literature and our beleaguered descendants will mock us in our graves.


無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #245 of 824
tm, I guess you're not going to provide what you said you had.

CONCLUSION: DEMOCRATS DO NOT HAVE A EUGENICS PLAN.



AND YOU HAVE NOTHING FUTHER TO OFFER ON THE SUBJECT, WE CAN WAIT UNTIL:
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #246 of 824
Thread Starter 
FT, have fun ducking the issue while thinking in pretty pictures.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #247 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

ft, have fun ducking the issue while thinking in pretty pictures.

[all caps]you're the one who hasn't answered---quack quack---so prove that the democrats are the ones that are talking eugenics----your definition---i gave you two republicans----look no pictures so as not to confuse you.[/all caps]
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #248 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

[all caps]you're the one who hasn't answered---quack quack---so prove that the democrats are the ones that are talking eugenics----your definition---i gave you two republicans----look no pictures so as not to confuse you.[/all caps]

Did you answer though? Is racism and eugenics the same thing? I'm asking for you to define this so I can show the same link.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #249 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

did you answer though? Is racism and eugenics the same thing? I'm asking for you to define this so i can show the same link.

[all caps]never mind, i said your definition would be operative----don't waste any more of my time or space.[/all caps]

tm won't answer the question until


無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #250 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

[all caps]never mind, i said your definition would be operative----don't waste any more of my time or space.[/all caps]

Did your answer meet my definition?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #251 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Did your answer meet my definition?

What, repeat the question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Lefty Crackpot Theory: Chinese Dictators Funneling Cash into GOP Campaigns to Export Jobs

I now state my opinion:

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

So says the guy who wrote that if the Democrats werent successful in the November elections they would begin to talk about eugenics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They already are talking about eugenics. The American people are now too stupid and thus are incapable of self-government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No. They are not saying that the American people are incapable of self government. This is some weird crap you have made up, or read on a blog. If they WERE saying this, that is still not the same as talking about disallowing people to contribute to the gene pool by sterilising them. You are pissing your pants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

When you say that senior members of the Democratic Party have been talking about eugenics? That is a lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It is the truth. The examples have been noted and are easy to find in media accounts. Your screaming denials don't change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, trumptman. If senior figures in the government were calling for the sterilisation of American citizens, it would be international news. Democrats are not calling for eugenics.......

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence that any Democrat is calling for eugenics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You are welcome to show me any definition that defines eugenics as being merely about sterlization. You (as usual) are being patently dishonest about this. Eugenics is about engaging in any practice which you believe improves the genetic composition of a population. Thus declaring certain populations shouldn't reproduce, shouldn't have certain rights because they sub-human in some form, etc. all apply...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Eugenics.

WHATEVER the definition. Senior figures in the Democratic party are not talking about eugenics.

You wrote this.

You wrote a lie.

You have provided no evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What is your position on it FineTimes? You often do not appear to take one and if I'm going to present a case, I might as well understand the audience.

You keep repeating this point MJ.

A quick point, what do you think it proves?
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #252 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

What, repeat the question?

You provided an example of racism and declared it to be proof of eugenics. I asked you if they are the same and to show the link using my definition.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #253 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Eugenics is broadly defined as promoting the use of practices that you [tm not FT] believe will improve the genetic composition of a population.

Are we in agreement on this point?

this was your definition of eugenics
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #254 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You provided an example of racism and declared it to be proof of eugenics. I asked you if they are the same and to show the link using my definition.

ATQ

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #255 of 824
STILL WAITING





無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #256 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

this was your definition of eugenics

Quote:
"The book characterizes non-whites as horrific and uncivilized 'monsters' who will stop at nothing to greedily and violently seize what rightfully belongs to the white man," the Southern Poverty Law Center explained.

Is this the sort of thing that makes it eugenics?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #257 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Is this the sort of thing that makes it eugenics?

i guess that you aren't going to provide an answer

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #258 of 824
are you?





無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #259 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

i guess that you aren't going to provide an answer


No I just don't want the answer dismissed by the person who prefers to think only it pretty pictures. You claimed you gave an answer. I'm asking how your answer is proof of eugenics. You won't answer that. If you won't affirm it for your own answer, why would you ever affirm it for my answer?

Clearly you prefer spewing nonsense via pretty pictures.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #260 of 824
While we wait for an answer to FT and mj's question from tm about "Working off your definition, tm, please provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling or had called for eugenics at anytime."



some other news"

Bacteria Help Flies Select Mates


oh wait, this is off topic.

Tennessee Republicans Support Racial Eugenics

Quote:
Every now and then, a candidate comes along who reminds us just what is really at stake in the struggle between the Republicans and the Democrats. One such candidate has been nominated in Tennessees 8th Congressional District this year.

The Republican candidates name is James Hart, and he is running on a platform of eugenics (selective breeding of humans) based on Americans racial identities. The image below is taken straight from Harts web site (I added the voter alert to make it clear that the graphic is not our own idea.

no wait that's racism

Tie Your Tubes to Reduce Poverty; Republican Eugenics or Continuation of Liberal Birth Control Agenda?

Quote:
Republican John LaBruzzo and Planned Parenthood Founder Margaret Sanger Agree; Heaven Help Us

Just when you thought you heard it all, Metairie, Louisiana, Republican John LaBruzzo believes to have found the economic equivalent to the Rosetta stone: employ eugenics to reduce the number of the poor.

The New Orleans City Business reports that Mr. LaBruzzo is thinking of legislation that would pay poor women $1,000 if they would agree to have their tubes tied so that they would not bring any more children into the world -- children who then would have to rely on welfare for their survival.

Even more amazing is the fact that Mr. LaBruzzo is also chastising churches who fail to condemn the lifestyle of the poor who are - poverty notwithstanding - reproducing. He then bitterly complains that the church is chastising those who are attempting to solve the problem.

Henry Kissinger, Republican Communism and Eugenics Population Control Agenda for Americans

Quote:
Duch, the first of five Pol Pot cadres to face trial for the 1975-79 reign of terror in which 1.7 million Cambodians died, said the Khmer Rouge would have faded if the U.S. had not got involved in Cambodia.

Quote:
"Mr Richard Nixon and Kissinger allowed the Khmer Rouge to grasp golden opportunities," the 66-year-old former jailer said at the start of the second week of his trial by the joint U.N.-Cambodian tribunal....

Depopulation, also known as eugenics was proposed under the Nazis during World War II. It is the deliberate killing off and demoralizing large segments of living populations and was proposed for Third World countries under President Carter's administration by the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population Policy. We now know through scientifically reverse-engineering the eugenics movement, that active eugenics programs have now been "normalized" throughout the U.S. What is more chilling for Americans is the nature of population control as it is being used in Bedford County, Pennsylvania and throughout the U.S. for which the vast majority of Americans do not see due to Mind Control.

National Security Memo 200, dated April 24, 1974, and titled "Implications of world wide population growth for U.S. security & overseas interests," says:

Quote:
"Dr. Henry Kissinger proposed in his memorandum to the NSC that "depopulation should be the highest priority of U.S. foreign policy towards the Third World." He quoted reasons of national security, and because `(t)he U.S. economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less-developed countries ... Wherever a lessening of population can increase the prospects for such stability, population policy becomes relevant to resources, supplies and to the economic interests of U.S."

Depopulation policy became the top priority under the NSC agenda, Club of Rome and U.S. policymakers like Gen. Alexander Haig, Cyrus Vance, Ed Muskie and Kissinger. According to an NSC spokesman at the time, the United States shared the view of former World Bank President Robert McNamara that the "population crisis" is a greater threat to U.S. national security interests than nuclear annihilation.In 1975, Henry Kissinger established a policy-planning group in the U.S. State Department's Office of Population Affairs. The depopulation "GLOBAL 2000" document for President Jimmy Carter was prepared. Domestic population control requires a more crafted agenda, as this activity will not pass federal court scrutiny, that is, it is completely unconstitutional and must remain in state "courts of equity," outside of federal scrutiny.

It is no coincidence that CAPTA, drafted in 1974 for "child protection," would mutate into a domestic population control program under Republican domination. It now targets domestic "economic interests" as a national security issue.




無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #261 of 824
Thread Starter 
Apparently the best course you take for not wanting to answer a question is to toss up as much crap as possible.

You ever try... you know... adding words to all your links and quotes FT? Leaving the out there with no thoughts doesn't really cause them to say much.

Of course perhaps that is your point right? No thoughts and a lot of space taken without saying much....

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #262 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

No I just don't want the answer dismissed by the person who prefers to think only it pretty pictures. You claimed you gave an answer. I'm asking how your answer is proof of eugenics. You won't answer that. If you won't affirm it for your own answer, why would you ever affirm it for my answer?

Clearly you prefer spewing nonsense via pretty pictures.

Then I guess you can't provide any argument or answer to the question. If you could provide a valid answer, that answer should withstand the scrutiny.

What changed? From this " Fine[Tunes], I enjoy your postings" to this "No I just don't want the answer dismissed by the person who prefers to think only it pretty pictures." Glad you thought that the pictures were pretty.

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #263 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Apparently the best course you take for not wanting to answer a question is to toss up as much crap as possible.

You ever try... you know... adding words to all your links and quotes FT? Leaving the out there with no thoughts doesn't really cause them to say much.

Of course perhaps that is your point right? No thoughts and a lot of space taken without saying much....

This started out with you having to answer the question. Nice try to deflect it to me that I didn't answer the question. Seriously????

LOOK NO PICTURES THIS TIME----SO ATFQ.

"Working off your definition, tm, please provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling or had called for eugenics at anytime."
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #264 of 824
tm, I'll let you and MJ pick this up tomorrow, chao

in the mean time, a reminder

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #265 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Then I guess you can't provide any argument or answer to the question. If you could provide a valid answer, that answer should withstand the scrutiny.

What changed? From this " Fine[Tunes], I enjoy your postings" to this "No I just don't want the answer dismissed by the person who prefers to think only it pretty pictures." Glad you thought that the pictures were pretty.


Has your answer withstood any scrutiny? You sound upset that you were beat to the punch with the very motif you were going to exploit.

I simply want you to apply to yourself and your answer whatever scrutiny you would apply to my own answer. Sort of gets the hypocrisy out of the way early don't you think? You wouldn't want to be caught engaging in a double standard would you? You've also stated that if one is a does not endorse being a miscegenationist, then one is a eugenicist. I would like that affirmed as well.

I've asked you to explain how one being racist makes one a eugenicist. If you can't explain how this is so for your own answer, then how would it be possible to even understand my answer?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #266 of 824
The Seduction of Sarah Palin: Eugenics, CNP, and the Pioneer Fund

Quote:
It was, therefore, disturbing to learn that Palin had been vetted by a secretive group with connections to the eugenics movement. In a September 1, 2008 article for The Nation, Max Blumenthal reported that the "members of the Council for National Policy are the hidden hand behind McCain's Palin pick" (no pagination). According to Blumenthal, the Council for National Policy (CNP) met at a hotel in downtown Minneapolis the week of the Democratic National Convention to acquaint themselves with Palin (no pagination). The article also stated that the Palin selection secured McCain the support of the conservative movement and that CNP participant James Dobson "may soon emerge from his bunker in Colorado Springs to endorse McCain, providing the Republican nominee with the backing of the Christian right's single most influential figure" (no pagination).

For many people on the left, it is hard to swallow the idea that the CNP has ties to the eugenics movement. After all, CNP participants such as James Dobson, Tim LaHaye, and Alan Keyes are considered to be stalwart pro-lifers. George W. Bush even put in an appearance at a secret meeting of the CNP in 2000 promising to nominate only pro-life judges (no pagination). There is a body of evidence, however, that suggests that all the pro-life rhetoric and pro-life participants may be mere window dressing to hide the sinister goal of creating a master race......

The majority of conservatives have been duped and Palin is no exception to that rule. If Palin does not want to become involved with the kind of dirty politics and radical agenda that have made most Americans jaded and cynical, she must recognize the CNP for what it really is. Under the CNP's mask lies an elite combine that is mobilizing unwitting conservatives and grassroots activists behind an elite agenda. Part of that agenda is eugenics.

Republican candidate admits supporting eugenics

Quote:
The Republican congressional candidate James L Hart has acknowledged that he is an unapologetic supporter of eugenics, the fake science that resulted in thousands of people being sterilised in an attempt to purify the white race.

He believes the country will look "like one big Detroit" - which has a large African-American population - if it doesn't eliminate welfare payments and immigration. He believes that if blacks were integrated centuries ago, the automobile would never have been invented.

GOP Eugenics
Joe Carter

Quote:
The expansion of the GOPs Big Tent to include ideas that social convervatives find distasteful is inevitable in todays political climate. But I never would have suspected that Republican politicians would feel comfortable enough to champion themes and techniques that are associated with eugenics.

For example, South Carolina Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer thinks that giving poor people food will cause them to breed like rabbits:

Quote:
My grandmother was not a highly educated woman, but she told me as a small child to quit feeding stray animals, Bauer told a Greenville-area crowd. You know why? Because they breed. Youre facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. They will reproduce, especially ones that dont think too much further than that. And so what youve got to do is youve got to curtail that type of behavior. They dont know any better.

Although he says he could have chosen his words more carefully when he compared people who take public assistance to stray animals, Bauer refused to apologize for the remark. But at least Bauer only wants to keep the poor from breeding. Bill Binnie, a Republican Senate candidate in New Hampshire, is willing to take a more direct approach by euthanizing the Lebensunwerten Lebens:

Quote:
We had a child. We had a pregnancy, my wife and I. I dont tell this story publicly as a rule. Ill tell it now. Its a small group. Im pro-choice because we had a positive amniocentesis test. We were going to have a special needs child, said Binnie when asked by an audience member about social issues. One of the things that happens when you realize youre going to have a special needs child is they sit you down and you learn [how] it impacts the other children in your family, Binnie continued. Whos going to take care of that child? Now in my wifes case, in my case, we could afford it and I though about it and we had that child, he concluded. It made me come to that other intersection of what matters. Im pro-choice. Binnie also explains in the video that the test result was a false positive and that his child was born healthy.

Binnies admission shouldnt be all that shocking when you consider that ninety-two percent of women choose to terminate a pregnancy following prenatal diagnosis of Down Syndrome. Yet is is still disconcerting to hear Republican politicians in the twenty-first century openly embrace and promote the cultural acceptance of eugenics.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #267 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

This started out with you having to answer the question. Nice try to deflect it to me that I didn't answer the question. Seriously????

LOOK NO PICTURES THIS TIME----SO ATFQ.

"Working off your definition, tm, please provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling or had called for eugenics at anytime."

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Has your answer withstood any scrutiny? You sound upset that you were beat to the punch with the very motif you were going to exploit.

Can't answer it can you. Your best answer is to change the question and then supply no answer at all. Not really upset, why would I be, you don't have an answer, if you want to trace this back I can, but I really don't want to since I did this once and you still have not answered the question.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #268 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Lefty Crackpot Theory: Chinese Dictators Funneling Cash into GOP Campaigns to Export Jobs

I now state my opinion:

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

So says the guy who wrote that if the Democrats werent successful in the November elections they would begin to talk about eugenics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They already are talking about eugenics. The American people are now too stupid and thus are incapable of self-government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No. They are not saying that the American people are incapable of self government. This is some weird crap you have made up, or read on a blog. If they WERE saying this, that is still not the same as talking about disallowing people to contribute to the gene pool by sterilising them. You are pissing your pants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

When you say that senior members of the Democratic Party have been talking about eugenics? That is a lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It is the truth. The examples have been noted and are easy to find in media accounts. Your screaming denials don't change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

No, trumptman. If senior figures in the government were calling for the sterilisation of American citizens, it would be international news. Democrats are not calling for eugenics.......

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence that any Democrat is calling for eugenics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You are welcome to show me any definition that defines eugenics as being merely about sterlization. You (as usual) are being patently dishonest about this. Eugenics is about engaging in any practice which you believe improves the genetic composition of a population. Thus declaring certain populations shouldn't reproduce, shouldn't have certain rights because they sub-human in some form, etc. all apply...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Eugenics.

WHATEVER the definition. Senior figures in the Democratic party are not talking about eugenics.

You wrote this.

You wrote a lie.

You have provided no evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What is your position on it FineTimes? You often do not appear to take one and if I'm going to present a case, I might as well understand the audience.

You keep repeating this point MJ.

A quick point, what do you think it proves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Working off your definition, tm, please provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling or had called for eugenics at anytime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What is your position on it Fine[Tunes][FT edit]? You often do not appear to take one and if I'm going to present a case, I might as well understand the audience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

OBTW: I'll assume you are addressing me, FineTunes and not my alter eqo FineTimes [two typos in the same word????]------OK fair question. I do not believe that you can present a case to show that the Democrats have called for, are calling for, or will call for eugenics. You were the one who stated that the Democrats were already planning on it and that it can be found in the press. Please also note that I provided this GLENN BECK, EUGENICS, AND HISTORY as an interesting counter point to your claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm trying to see where you are coming from. I'm not sure what case you are presenting with regard to the Beck link.

Eugenics is broadly defined as promoting the use of practices that you believe will improve the genetic composition of a population.

Are we in agreement on this point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

No, I do not believe in eugenics[now you know a little more about me]. Try this as a definition---I provided it ealier:
You still haven't provided what mj and I have asked, have you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


If we cannot agree on a definition, then what good would the proof be?


My definition is cited as coming from Unified Medical Language System (Psychological Index Terms) National Library of Medicine. Can you agree to it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Ok, lets roll with your definition then. Now you have no reason not to provide the information that I and mj asked for, do you----let's not concern ourselves what mj's definition of eugenics are, I'm sure mj won't object about the semantics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Good now, step two, do you consider practices to be human action and policies? Also do you consider it elitism when you have an entity claim to represent the interests of a human party even when those parties do not desire to have their representation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

tm, I guess you're not going to provide what you said you had.

CONCLUSION: DEMOCRATS DO NOT HAVE A EUGENICS PLAN.

AND YOU HAVE NOTHING FUTHER TO OFFER ON THE SUBJECT, WE CAN WAIT UNTIL:

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

FT, have fun ducking the issue while thinking in pretty pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

[all caps]you're the one who hasn't answered---quack quack---so prove that the democrats are the ones that are talking eugenics----your definition---i gave you two republicans----look no pictures so as not to confuse you.[/all caps]

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Did you answer though? Is racism and eugenics the same thing? I'm asking for you to define this so I can show the same link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

[all caps]never mind, i said your definition would be operative----don't waste any more of my time or space.[/all caps]

tm won't answer the question until

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Did your answer meet my definition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

What, repeat the question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

You provided an example of racism and declared it to be proof of eugenics. I asked you if they are the same and to show the link using my definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Eugenics is broadly defined as promoting the use of practices that you [tm not FT] believe will improve the genetic composition of a population.

Are we in agreement on this point?

this was your definition of eugenics

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

this was your definition of eugenics

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


Quote:
"The book characterizes non-whites as horrific and uncivilized 'monsters' who will stop at nothing to greedily and violently seize what rightfully belongs to the white man," the Southern Poverty Law Center explained.

Is this the sort of thing that makes it eugenics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

i guess that you aren't going to provide an answer[/B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

No I just don't want the answer dismissed by the person who prefers to think only it pretty pictures. You claimed you gave an answer. I'm asking how your answer is proof of eugenics. You won't answer that. If you won't affirm it for your own answer, why would you ever affirm it for my answer?

Clearly you prefer spewing nonsense via pretty pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Apparently the best course you take for not wanting to answer a question is to toss up as much crap as possible.

You ever try... you know... adding words to all your links and quotes FT? Leaving the out there with no thoughts doesn't really cause them to say much.

Of course perhaps that is your point right? No thoughts and a lot of space taken without saying much....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

This started out with you having to answer the question. Nice try to deflect it to me that I didn't answer the question. Seriously????

LOOK NO PICTURES THIS TIME----SO ATFQ.

"Working off your definition, tm, please provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling or had called for eugenics at anytime."

Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Then I guess you can't provide any argument or answer to the question. If you could provide a valid answer, that answer should withstand the scrutiny.

What changed? From this " Fine[Tunes], I enjoy your postings" to this "No I just don't want the answer dismissed by the person who prefers to think only it pretty pictures." Glad you thought that the pictures were pretty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Has your answer withstood any scrutiny? You sound upset that you were beat to the punch with the very motif you were going to exploit.

I simply want you to apply to yourself and your answer whatever scrutiny you would apply to my own answer. Sort of gets the hypocrisy out of the way early don't you think? You wouldn't want to be caught engaging in a double standard would you? You've also stated that if one is a does not endorse being a miscegenationist, then one is a eugenicist. I would like that affirmed as well.

I've asked you to explain how one being racist makes one a eugenicist. If you can't explain how this is so for your own answer, then how would it be possible to even understand my answer?

tm, I decided to trace the issue of you not answering the question to provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling for or had called for 'eugenics' at anytime." back through this thread. I edited out the pretty pictures and the large colored words. It came out in four sections.

This started with jg statement Liberalism is a mental disorder. MJ then stated So says the guy who wrote that if the Democrats werent successful in the November elections they would begin to talk about eugenics. You, tm then stated They already are talking about eugenics. You and MJ bantered back and forth with MJ asking you to provide evidence that any Democrat is calling for eugenics.

I weighed in providing the Websters definition of eugenics. You asked me for my position on the issue and I mentioned that I was opposed to eugenics. I offered that you could use your definition for eugenics and asked that you answer the question. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

You then deflected answering by asking do you consider practices to be human action and policies? Also do you consider it elitism when you have an entity claim to represent the interests of a human party even when those parties do not desire to have their representation?

We went through about 1.5 pages of me trying to get an answer and you making off point comments that has nothing to do with the original question. At this point in time you don't have an answer and you can't back up claim that the Democrats already are talking about eugenics.

I have to agree with sego:

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I'm wondering Trumpy....do you actually ever feel like contributing anything?

[emphasis added by FT]

FORGOT TO ADD A TOON
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #269 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

tm, I decided to trace the issue of you not answering the question to provide some evidence that the Democrats are calling for or had called for 'eugenics' at anytime." back through this thread. I edited out the pretty pictures and the large colored words. It came out in four sections.

This started with jg statement Liberalism is a mental disorder. MJ then stated So says the guy who wrote that if the Democrats werent successful in the November elections they would begin to talk about eugenics. You, tm then stated They already are talking about eugenics. You and MJ bantered back and forth with MJ asking you to provide evidence that any Democrat is calling for eugenics.

I weighed in providing the Websters definition of eugenics. You asked me for my position on the issue and I mentioned that I was opposed to eugenics. I offered that you could use your definition for eugenics and asked that you answer the question. YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

You then deflected answering by asking do you consider practices to be human action and policies? Also do you consider it elitism when you have an entity claim to represent the interests of a human party even when those parties do not desire to have their representation?

We went through about 1.5 pages of me trying to get an answer and you making off point comments that has nothing to do with the original question. At this point in time you don't have an answer and you can't back up claim that the Democrats already are talking about eugenics.

I have to agree with sego:

[emphasis added by FT]

If you've retraced it then you already saw what was said and what MJ answered to it. I simply noted that before I dig into it deeper you have to agree to the criteria. You've refused to elaborate on that for a dozen posts now. I'm clear. MJ's rebuttal, which consists of a simple "no they're not." is clear as well. However MJ wants to then bring up the strawman argument that the only means of endorsing eugenics is via sterilization. You link to multiple sources, none of which by the way are calling for sterilization and declare they are eugenicists. I ask you to affirm why they are eugenicists, and you refuse.

Speaking of Sego, you're emulating him. His rationalizations are a bit insane and arguments incoherent because they take the same actions and apply totally different conclusions based off the "intent" of the parties. Thus a "teabagger" protesting is a walking timebomb ready to explode into violence. An actual leftist engaging in violence, documented as such, isn't actually violent. They are just "giving them what they deserve" or "they stopped being left-wing" and are "right-wingers" they second they engage in certain actions.

You label these various parties eugenicists because of their practices. You won't say what practices make them eugenicists because I assure you, I can easily find examples of those practices, those turns of phrases, etc that supposedly show their intent. I quoted some of the phrases and asked you to affirm. You've refused.

Why go through the trouble of posting it all when, just like you've already quoted from MJ, you'll simply say, "No they're not." It's much easier to simply repeat yes they are again.

So pin it down, or don't complain. If you say prove it and won't say what would prove it to you, then you're simply being silly. I clearly asked. I've asked what practices being advocated would prove it to you. You've refused to answer. Name a clear eugenicist practice shown within your links and I'll gladly find an example of it. Clarify or shut up because I'm not going to be your google slave to simply have you dismiss the work.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #270 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

if you've retraced it then you already saw what was said and what mj answered to it. I simply noted that before i dig into it deeper you have to agree to the criteria. You've refused to elaborate on that for a dozen posts now. I'm clear. Mj's rebuttal, which consists of a simple "no they're not." is clear as well. However mj wants to then bring up the strawman argument that the only means of endorsing eugenics is via sterilization. You link to multiple sources, none of which by the way are calling for sterilization and declare they are eugenicists. I ask you to affirm why they are eugenicists, and you refuse.

Speaking of sego, you're emulating him. His rationalizations are a bit insane and arguments incoherent because they take the same actions and apply totally different conclusions based off the "intent" of the parties. Thus a "teabagger" protesting is a walking timebomb ready to explode into violence. An actual leftist engaging in violence, documented as such, isn't actually violent. They are just "giving them what they deserve" or "they stopped being left-wing" and are "right-wingers" they second they engage in certain actions.

You label these various parties eugenicists because of their practices. You won't say what practices make them eugenicists because i assure you, i can easily find examples of those practices, those turns of phrases, etc that supposedly show their intent. I quoted some of the phrases and asked you to affirm. You've refused.

Why go through the trouble of posting it all when, just like you've already quoted from mj, you'll simply say, "no they're not." it's much easier to simply repeat yes they are again.

So pin it down, or don't complain. If you say prove it and won't say what would prove it to you, then you're simply being silly. I clearly asked. I've asked what practices being advocated would prove it to you. You've refused to answer. Name a clear eugenicist practice shown within your links and i'll gladly find an example of it. Clarify or shut up because i'm not going to be your google slave to simply have you dismiss the work.

so you refuse to answer the question
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #271 of 824
The Frightening Agenda of the American Eugenics Movement
By Tony Platt
Following are the remarks Mr. Platt made to the California senate judiciary committee, June 24,
Quote:
2003, regarding senate resolution no. 20 - relative to eugenics.
Since the spring 2002, state governments in Virginia, Oregon, and South Carolina, have published statements of apology to tens of thousands of patients, mostly poor women, who were sterilized against their will in state hospitals between the 1900s and 1960s. In March 2003, Governor Davis and Attorney General Lockyer added their regrets for the injustices committed in the name of "race betterment." Now, the California Senate is considering a resolution, authored by Senator Dede Alpert (D-San Diego), which "expresses profound regret over the state's past role in the eugenics movement" and "urges every citizen of the state to become familiar with the history of the eugenics movement, in the hope that a more educated and tolerant populace will reject any similar abhorrent pseudoscientific movement should it arise in the future."

Eugenics and the decline of the American civilization
William Conant
Clayton County Political Buzz Examiner

Quote:
China recently announced that eugenics (controlling birth rates by determining 
if a fetus will have a costly birth defect) has reduced their reproduction 
rate to 1.6. Per acknowledged sociologists, a reproduction rate of 2.1 (2.1 
babies per one deceased person) is necessary to maintain a civilization. 
Currently, the U.S. rate is 1.8 and is projected it to be 1.6 with the oncoming 
health care "reform". 
In other words, our civilization (the United States of America) is in danger of 
falling apart if trends are not reversed. This has been true for many great 
civilizations, such as ancient Egypt, First Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, the 
Ottoman Empire, etc. Now, if a simple person like me can research and discover 
these facts, is it safe to assume that there are others who know the same and 
are purposefully leading our society in this direction? YES!! Just as a small 
example, check out the Bill Gates' rationalization of eugenics and the 
interpretation of choosing between continuing treatment of a diseased or elderly 
person, of which he is a firm believer: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03MZG9vK0W8

Left attacks Republican Jim Russells eugenic and racist view while praising racist and eugenic founded Planned*Parenthood

Quote:
A New York Republican hoping to displace the long-serving Democratic Rep. Nita Lowey will face an increasingly steep climb to electoral victory thanks to a revelation by Politicos Maggie Haberman, who dug up some of his published works and noted a number of distinctly racist elements in a 2001 piece published by the right-wing Occidental Quarterly.
Jim Russell, who enjoys the support of his states Republican Party and conservative establishment, has maintained a strongly anti-immigrant stance in his campaign against Lowey, who defeated him in 2008.

The same could be said of his 2001 essay for Occidental [PDF link], titled The Western Contribution to World History, which advises parents to establish appropriate ethnic boundaries for their children, and criticizes the film Save the Last Dance for depicting an interracial relationship.
He also opined against the racial integration of public schools and praised two individuals for their antisemitic ideas on how to limit the spread of Jews.

Russell even lauded some ideas behind the practice of eugenics, a radical ideology most commonly associated with Germanys Third Reich which seeks to preserve racial and ethnic purity.
In his essay, he also writes highly of the book, The Camp of the Saints, a tome held dear by many white supremacists. First published in France in the mid-70s, The Camp of the Saints depicts a mass migration from India into Europe, resulting in a radically altered political reality.

Quote:
The book characterizes non-whites as horrific and uncivilized monsters who will stop at nothing to greedily and violently seize what rightfully belongs to the white man, the Southern Poverty Law Center explained.

Rachel Maddow: White Supremacist-Connected Wrote AZ 'Papers Please' Law

Quote:
MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show - 26 April 2010: Rachel reports on the Arizona "immigration" law. The bill was introduced by Republican state senator Russell Pearce, who circulated a white separatist e-mail screed, and who also got caught on tape hugging a neo-Nazi. The guy taking credit for writing the law is Kris Kobach, a birther running for secretary of state in Kansas, and who is an attorney for the legal arm of FAIR, an "immigration reform" group whose founder, John Tanton, argued in 1986 about whites being out-populated by non-whites. The group has been funded for nine years of its existence by The Pioneer Fund, formed "in the Darwinian-Galtonian evolutionary tradition, and the eugenics movement."

REPORTER (VIDEO): "What does an illegal immigrant look like? Does it look like me?"

GOV. JAN BREWER (R-AZ) (VIDEO): "I do not know. I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I can tell you that I think that there are people in Arizona that assume that they know what an illegal immigrant looks like."

MADDOW: "In the meantime, 'papers, please.'

Before this bill was actually signed into law, we told you about the guy who introduced it in the first place. It's this guy, Republican state senator Russell Pearce. Mr. Pearce is famous in Arizona for having sent an email to his supporters that included a white nationalist screed - accusing the media of pushing the view of 'a world in which every voice proclaims the equality of the races, the inerrant nature of the Jewish 'Holocaust' tale, the wickedness of attempting to halt the flood non-White aliens pouring across our borders...' Mr. Pearce sent that around to all his supporters, a move he latter apologized for. Russell Pearce is also famous for having been caught on tape hugging a neo-Nazi. You know, like a real neo-Nazi; not some sort of metaphorical, Godwin's Law-invoking neo-Nazi, but an actual neo-Nazi guy. See, with the swaztikas? Russell Pearce is the guy who introduced this radical 'immigration' bill in Arizona that just became law.

But if you want to meet the guy who's taking credit for writing the new law. That would be a gentleman named Kris Kobach. Kris Kobach is a birther. He's running for secretary of state in Kansas right now. His campaign website today brags 'Kobach Wins One in Arizona.'

The guy who helped write Arizona's new 'immigration' bill is also an attorney for the Immigration Reform Law Institute. That's the legal arm of an immigration group that's called FAIR - the 'Federation For American Immigration Reform.' FAIR was founded in 1979 by a man named John Tanton. Mr. Tanton is still listed as a member of FAIR's board of directors.

Just for some insight into where FAIR and John Tanton are coming from, seven years after he started FAIR, Mr. Tanton wrote this: '... to govern is to populate... will the present majority peaceably hand over its political power to a group that is simply more fertile? ... As whites see their power and control over their lives declinging, will they simply go quietly into the night? or will there be an explosion?'

That's FAIR, who helped write Arizona's new anti-immigrant law. After John Tanton got FAIR off the ground, for nine of the first years of the group's existence, the group reportedly received more than a million dollars in funding from something called The Pioneer Fund. The Pioneer Fund describes itself as a group formed 'in the Darwinian-Galtonian evolutionary tradition, and the eugenics movement.'

For the last seventy years, The Pioneer Fund has funded controversial research about race and intelligence, essentially aimed at proving the racial superiority of white people. The group's original mandate was to promote the genes of those 'deemed to be descended predominantly from white persons who settled in the original thirteen states prior to the adoption of the Constitution.'......

Strange Bedfellows: Eugenics and the Tea Party

Quote:
Most people are aware by now that the Tea Party movement has been astroturfed by an organization called FreedomWorks, chaired by former Majority Leader of the U.S. House of Representatives and self proclaimed 'Austrian economist', Dick Armey. Whether or not people consider this to be of any importance is another story, but I'm hoping this helps open a few eyes.

Dick Armey has sat aboard the secretive Council for National Policy, an organization described by Mark Crispin Miller as a

"highly secretive... theocratic organization -- what they want is basically religious rule.

The CNP's memberships rosters reveal that the organization is essentially the hidden 'brain' behind the GOP - everyone from Oliver North, Phyllis Schlafy, Tom Delay, Trent Lott, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Reverend Sun Myung Moon have attended, with the purpose of networking conservative, religious parties to help shape public policy. Michael Chertoff, George W. Bush, and John Ashcroft have addressed the CNP; it is rumoured that Sarah Palin is a member.

Eugenics, the Council for National Policy (CNP), and the Pioneer Fund

Quote:
Through the incredible work of the Collins brothers I have finally gotten a grasp on the entire fascist nexus of the elite in America. This latest one literally wraps it all up: from the current vetting of Palin by the CNP to the Pioneer Fund to the Nazis and the Eugenic establishment (then and now).

It has become customary since the ascendancy of Bush II for fascism to be leisurely thrown about as a description of the current state of affairs in America. Rather than a haphazard utterance, as is too often the case, I believe the work of the Collins brothers - taken as a whole - has proven it beyond a doubt. It is no accident that the Eugenics movement of the Eastern Establishment aided and abetted the final solution of Nazi Germany, and were the brains and money behind the entire apparatus of population control throughout the 20th century. And it is no accident that those same eugenic networks continue to operate today, and are intimately connected with the Council for National Policy (CNP). It is truly no accident we smell fascism in the air: the Nazis, the Harrimans, the Bushes, the Osborns, Skull and Bones, the Neocons, the CNP, the Dominionists, the Rockefellers, and the Eugenicists are all the same creature.
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #272 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

so you refuse to answer the question

I asked questions to clarify your question. When you can't answer them, then I won't bother to waste time with you. In the meantime have fun spamming the forums with links and quotes, but no conclusions. You know it's sort of interesting how you desire to keep repeating yourself but won't engage in actual debate. I guess when you know you've already lost, you might as well avoid confirming that fact right?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #273 of 824
Harvard scholars respond to Martin Kramers support of a eugenics program against Palestinians

Quote:
Prof. Martin Kramer, a right wing loon (who unlike the garden variety loon has a Harvard affiliation), advocated starving out the population of Gaza so that they could not reproducea view which flirts with genocide and is a form of eugenics.* We covered his hate-filled words earlier on our site.* I am a firm believer in Godwins Law and very rarely like using Nazi comparisons, but I think this is the rare exception in which it is more than fitting: one can well imagine Adolf Hitler contemplating blockading Jewish ghettos to starve them out and thereby prevent them from reproducing.

Condemning Kramer
By Lori Allen, Vincent A. Brown, and Ajantha Subramanian

Published: Monday, April 19, 2010

Quote:
Much has been made of Martin Kramers suggestion that Palestinians be denied food and medicine in order to weaken their opposition to the Israeli occupation. We, along with a group of 25 other professors, scholars, and Harvard alumni, add our voices to the chorus of condemnation directed towards Dr. Kramer and express our concern that the Weatherhead Center has lent him its credibility. As academics, we question both the ethical and scholarly basis of Dr. Kramers public statements. We maintain that this is not a question of protecting Dr. Kramers free speech, as was indicated by the Weatherhead Centers response to criticism. Rather, it is about maintaining appropriate standards of ethical and intellectual conduct; Dr. Kramers repellent statements evince a clear failure to meet those standards....

In Kramers presentation, he suggested that Israels current economic blockade of Gaza, now in its fourth year, represents a successful effort to break Gazas runaway population growth. He therefore argued against what he called pro-natal subsidies of food, medicine, and humanitarian aid that help to reproduce the constant supply of superfluous young men demanded by a so-called culture of martyrdom in Gaza.

His argument has little scholarly merit. In the name of state security, it validates demographic strategies of population control that date at least back to Thomas Malthus and have been repeatedly found wanting both intellectually and morally for over two centuries. Also, by attributing to culture what is a political and social phenomenon, Kramer misrepresents the dynamics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. A willingness to sacrifice oneself is not a desire for martyrdom rooted in Palestinian culture. Rather, as has been shown by scholars of the conflict, Palestinian youth turn to violent means to oppose the dehumanizing effects of the Israeli occupation. In short, Kramers remarks are not informed by current scholarship, but are animated by the spirit of early 20th century eugenics.....
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #274 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

Harvard scholars respond to Martin Kramers support of a eugenics program against Palestinians



Condemning Kramer
By Lori Allen, Vincent A. Brown, and Ajantha Subramanian

Published: Monday, April 19, 2010

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #275 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


PRETTY PICTURE---ALWAYS KNEW YOU WERE A SPAMMER

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #276 of 824
obtw----nice answer---i guess that's all i can expect from you
無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #277 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

PRETTY PICTURE---ALWAYS KNEW YOU WERE A SPAMMER




Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

obtw----nice answer---i guess that's all i can expect from you





Quote:
The book characterizes non-whites as horrific and uncivilized monsters who will stop at nothing to greedily and violently seize what rightfully belongs to the white man, the Southern Poverty Law Center explained.

You quote it. You just won't explain it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #278 of 824
You quote it. You just won't explain it.[/QUOTE]

IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF SO ANSWER THE QUESTION

Anyway don't expect me to answer any of yours since you have failed to answer mine

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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post #279 of 824
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post

You quote it. You just won't explain it.

IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF SO ANSWER THE QUESTION

Anyway don't expect me to answer any of yours since you have failed to answer mine


So if I can find a quote labeling a group as being greedy or monsters who are willing to take what rightfully (by my reasoning) belongs to others, then that denote eugenics?

It is amazing that you can post assertions and think you don't have to support them. No wonder you spam the forums with link and quotes, but no thoughts.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #280 of 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It is amazing that you can post assertions and think you don't have to support them. No wonder you spam the forums with link and quotes, but no thoughts.

" Fine[Tunes], I enjoy your postings"

無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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無心 The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey
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