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Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets - Page 5

post #161 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would expect to see this in iOS 5.0. Of course, those anti-Apple (regardless of being pro-MS) will say Apple copied them and maybe they did, though I think Ive seen dynamic icons from Apple in the past.

Apple has been interesting lately, and I think the company is changing a bit. They loosened up on the developer rules, they added ping (Zune social), they added a gaming center (Xbox live), they are flirting with music subscriptions (Zune pass), they have Apple TV (MS media center).

I think we are seeing the beginnings of a tussle for the "living room/house", with both companies converging on a set of core features and trying to flesh things out to create a unified experience.

I could be wrong though.
post #162 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Wow, you work for MS, I did not know that. The app store is not open yet, so we do not know it is "rubbish", unless of course this is the same MS = evil drivel.

Look man, I've said it before, you want to post garbage, go to macrumors forums, they have a distinctively low iq and eq in both their management, and posters. Or go to an ms site, but please don't troll here, it's boring.

An app store that's not even open yet is by definition far worse than one that's open for a few years and includes a few hundred thousand apps. Or are you waiting on the Microsoft miracle that somehow as soon as they open they will outshine all the rest of the developers from all other platforms all over the globe that have worked their asses off these past years to actually make app stores a reality? It could be, we might have an ms miracle, counter to all logic, ms will open the store and from day 1 or day 10 it will outpace, outshine and outperform everyone else. Just like the courier sent the ipad to oblivion. Just like that.

What kind of garbage discussion are you involving me in? Please pity me, yourself, and the rest of the posters here.
post #163 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

That would mean that iOS 5 would be incompatible with iPhone 4. That may be possible but seems unlikely IMO. Apple have so far seen to it that each iPhone could get at least one iOS upgrade. I'm not sure I'd expect that to change.

Nothing in my post suggested that iOS 5.0 would only be for the G5 iPhone.
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post #164 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

So what are they trying to say? As social commentary I am with them 100%. But what is their point that they 'll make a phone that bad that no one would want to use? Because what exact advantage are they offering so their phones can let you be a quick "in and out" (is that pun intended?) ? People are not addicted to their phones because the phones are so great, but because they are addicted to some uses they offer, they help them waist time, the distract them, they help them avoid things that make them uncomfortable etc. etc. What's ms's solution to that? Rubbish marketing? Oh, but now I get it, it's the same old bs, they don't have an answer....

Bring back Bill, Jerry Seinfeld and stupid smelly shoe ads, they look like something out of the cannes film festival compared to this.

Let me see if I understand you. Apple made the iPhone to sell to a bunch of insecure, lazy, procrastinating, ADHD, repressed individuals? Is that REALLY what you are saying.
post #165 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Look man, I've said it before, you want to post garbage, go to macrumors forums, they have a distinctively low iq and eq in both their management, and posters. Or go to an ms site, but please don't troll here, it's boring.

An app store that's not even open yet is by definition far worse than one that's open for a few years and includes a few hundred thousand apps. Or are you waiting on the Microsoft miracle that somehow as soon as they open they will outshine all the rest of the developers from all other platforms all over the globe that have worked their asses off these past years to actually make app stores a reality? It could be, we might have an ms miracle, counter to all logic, ms will open the store and from day 1 or day 10 it will outpace, outshine and outperform everyone else. Just like the courier sent the ipad to oblivion. Just like that.

What kind of garbage discussion are you involving me in? Please pity me, yourself, and the rest of the posters here.

I must of hit a nerve to provoke a personal attack, or is that your SOP.

When Android was released, Apple had tens of thousands of apps in its store. By your logic, Android should have failed, not surpassed iPhone in market share and never achieved 100K apps.

There is no MS miracle, nor did I assume a deluge of apps when the app store opened. Given time, the app store will grow, just like it did for Apple, just like it did for Android.

My post was that claiming WP7 is doomed because the app store won't have 200K apps at opening is just wrong.
post #166 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Apple has been interesting lately, and I think the company is changing a bit. They loosened up on the developer rules

Theyre always changing. The loosening of the dev restrictions are natural just as Im sure iAds wont always be regulated to iOS apps if it takes off. This is how a smart company operates. Work with manageable chunks and expand in controlled way that are on your terms.

Quote:
I think we are seeing the beginnings of a tussle for the "living room/house", with both companies converging on a set of core features and trying to flesh things out to create a unified experience.

I thought of this the other day and while its somewhat semantics its also a change in the way we use computers in the home so I think its relevant: Apple already owns the living room.

Im talking about the AppleTV, Im talking about iDevices like the iPhone, Touch and iPad being in the hands of people who are in the living room. What Apple hasnt won is the TV or entertainment center in the living room.
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post #167 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Every meeting I go to has at least one or two people pretending to use their iPad for something or other also.

I don't find this a meaningful statistic or fact other than how it reflects on the current popularity of the device.

According to Apple's COO, Tim Cook, 80% of fortune 100 companies are using the iPhone and 50% are using the iPad. Would you consider that meaningful or just hot air?
post #168 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

According to Apple's COO, Tim Cook, 80% of fortune 100 companies are using the iPhone and 50% are using the iPad. Would you consider that meaningful or just hot air?

Its meaningful for those stats, but it doesnt say how many are being sold on average to these 80% and 50%.

Also, I think Prof. Peabody meaningful comment was based on it being anecdotal and therefor very limited in scope.
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post #169 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Let me see if I understand you. Apple made the iPhone to sell to a bunch of insecure, lazy, procrastinating, ADHD, repressed individuals? Is that REALLY what you are saying.

How the hell did you get that out of the post you're responding to?

Here, let me explain it again: people have their noses buried in their cell phones because they're caught up in what's in there: texts, internet sites, emails, etc.

Making a phone which claims to make it easier to access those things doesn't address the the problem they claim to be solving, at all. Does anyone believe that the people walking around in their cell bubble are doing so because they're having to spend a lot of time navigating between applications?

It's a pretty odd and misguided bit of marketing, IMO. If this is the theme of the campaign, MS is shooting for a way of differentiating their phone that doesn't actually make any sense-- and worse, most people will immediately see it doesn't make sense, because they're the ones walking around staring at their screens.

It's like marketing a cell phone with a lot of images of people yelling into them in public, with the claim that the phone software is really slick so your conversations can be shorter. Gibberish, in other words.
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post #170 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

How the hell did you get that out of the post you're responding to?

Here, let me explain it again: people have their noses buried in their cell phones because they're caught up in what's in there: texts, internet sites, emails, etc.

Making a phone which claims to make it easier to access those things doesn't address the the problem they claim to be solving, at all. Does anyone believe that the people walking around in their cell bubble are doing so because they're having to spend a lot of time navigating between applications?

It's a pretty odd and misguided bit of marketing, IMO. If this is the theme of the campaign, MS is shooting for a way of differentiating their phone that doesn't actually make any sense-- and worse, most people will immediately see it doesn't make sense, because they're the ones walking around staring at their screens.

It's like marketing a cell phone with a lot of images of people yelling into them in public, with the claim that the phone software is really slick so your conversations can be shorter. Gibberish, in other words.

I agree with everything you said about the goal of the ad and how it wont solve the problem they are claiming, but I think its a brilliant ad nonetheless. I think it makes the viewer want to know about WP7 and that is exactly what they need right now.
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post #171 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s meaningful for those stats, but it doesn’t say how many are being sold on average to these 80% and 50%.

He's not disputing the sales of the iPhone and iPad. He's saying that iOS devices aren't serious productivity devices and that business users will gravitate towards other devices.

Not only do I disagree with him, but the evidence is also contrary to his claims - that's my point.
post #172 of 334
Wow. How sad. Win phone 7 looks like a whole bunch of Crayola. Hope they didn't actually PAY someone to "design" this interface.

And the home screen looks "broken." lol

Nothing really new or needed. Just a poorly done rehash of Outlook Express on a phone. Kinda disappointing from what should be a software design powerhouse.
post #173 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

"Start screen with something called Live Tiles for highlighting a user's personal content. "

So what is the difference between a Tile and an Icon. My iPhone email Icon shows how many unread emails I have, my Calendar shows how many new appointments I have? I don't get how this is any different.

<SARCASM>
Com'n, your just not seeing that they gave it a fresh start.
</SARCASM>

Maybe in the next weeks we will see that they gave it a fresh re-start.
post #174 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Wow. How sad. Win phone 7 looks like a whole bunch of Crayola. Hope they didn't actually PAY someone to "design" this interface.

When MS comes along and offers organizations one free WP7 device for every desktop Windows or Office install, looks aren't going to matter much.
post #175 of 334
Metoosoft strikes again or strikes out again!
post #176 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I agree with everything you said about the goal of the ad and how it won’t solve the problem they are claiming, but I think it’s a brilliant ad nonetheless. I think it makes the viewer want to know about WP7 and that is exactly what they need right now.

I think it's an interesting ad, well done, but I think what they're selling (we can get you-- or perhaps more pointedly those other dicks who keep ramming into you-- involved in life again by making your phone so easy to use you rarely have to look at it) is nonsensical.

You're right that it might stir some interest, but I can't see that translating into sales. Windows Phone 7 will sink or swim on its merits, not some high concept "this fixes a terrible wrong" campaign.

Now, of course, this might just be an initial teaser piece, with more substantial sales pitches to come, but it sort of sounds like the hook they're going to hang the whole campaign on--"get in and get out fast." But the trouble there is that's not what people want to do with their phones. If it were, they'd already be doing it, because neither iOS or Android actually preclude, say, quickly checking your email and putting your phone away. Compulsively needing to be constantly in touch is not a failure of hardware or software, and pretending like it is really can't build good will.
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post #177 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Perhaps, but the fact that RIM has lost market share doesn't necessarily equate to a losing the business market in that a large portion of Blackberry users are teenage girls who text as well. Also, Microsoft's initial offering (Windows Mobile), is and always has been absolute junk in terms of usability, (and I've used it myself on multiple devices) and both it and Blackberry OS are based on antiquated, almost "pre-smartphone" concepts. The fact that the arrival of multi-touch smartphones from Apple and Google caused them to lose share is not really that surprising.

This is true, but I have yet to see anyone do anything much with the SDK except dip buckets into the goldmine which is mobile gaming.

I would also argue that while the iPad currently dominates the landscape, it's not geared for any kind of serious productivity. It's a netbook replacement aimed almost solely at passive consumption of media and social activities which can just as easily be done on a phone. There is a serious danger IMO that the shine will wear off the iPad as quickly as it arrived and people will figure out that aside from the bigger screen, they can do almost anything they want to on an iPad, on a phone. Additionally, there hasn't been time for any competitors to the iPad to even come on sale yet, so the question of what is happening in the tablet market is really completely up in the air at this point.

What I see in the tablet market, is that lots of other competitors are coming out with products over the holiday season and in the first quarter of next year. Many of these are extremely focussed on productivity using the 7" form factor. Apple hasn't announced anything in that area, and there are no rumours of them even testing different form factors for the iPad at this stage.

Even if you just look at software, obvious boosts to the productivity side of the equation for iOS like providing a home screen with "at a glance information" or providing an integrated package of calendaring/email for the end user don't even seem to be on the horizon for Apple, and no developers that I've heard of are working on this kind of thing through the SDK either. Notifications still barely work on iOS. Even email is problematic in that I still can't rely on having access to all my email from an iOS device at all times even though I only use MobileMe for my email. Using the Apple mail app requires you getting your head around a lot of confusing duplication of mail folders as well. Many just give up on trying to figure it out and trust that everything is okay without really being in control of it at all. I never get that feeling when I use a more corporate based email system like Exchange. There is also no file system on iOS devices and no easy or intuitive way to transfer documents to an iOS device or back again. Even a simple "My documents" folder is seemingly out of the question for Apple. This just makes no sense at all to most end users.

Apple has a way of surprising us so they might pull it off yet, but I'm definitely worried about this state of affairs. I think Apple is moving too slow given the rapid development of the new mobile platform and (especially in the area of productivity), they aren't really offering much at this point. If they get enough iPads in peoples hands for watching TV shows with, they can still bolt on some productivity improvements later on and perhaps win the day, but I think they should be doing this now, instead of waiting for an entire summer of new Android (and now WinPhone 7) devices showing just how poor Apple's offering is in that regard. It's always better to strike first, rather than respond to a competitors product IMO.

I'm sorry I thought this article was about WP7 smart phones... oh wait IT IS! Maybe you should speak to the topic.
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post #178 of 334
i expect WP 7 will do ok. not great, but ok. because it is aimed at the same commodity phone market of unsophisticated consumers (not dumb, just not tech-wise) that Android has had to itself up to now. they are asking $200 to start, but the $50 rebates and 2-for-1 deals will come in January. and they have a modest base of likely buyers to start with - Zune and XBox owners. so if it is at all a decent product, it will do ok.

add to this new global, if not US, competition from Nokia's new Symbian 3 smartphones and the iPhone's expansion to other US telcos, and Android's rapid growth is over. Android was filling the vacuum left by the obsolescence of WinMobile 6 and Symbian 2. now that is over.

but it will be fun to watch the fanDroids sneer at WP 7.

PS: it will not, however, make any money for MS. another no-profit product like the Zune and XBox.
post #179 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They’re always changing. The loosening of the dev restrictions are natural just as I’m sure iAds won’t always be regulated to iOS apps if it takes off. This is how a smart company operates. Work with manageable chunks and expand in controlled way that are on your terms.


I thought of this the other day and while it’s somewhat semantics it’s also a change in the way we use computers in the home so I think it’s relevant: Apple already owns the living room.

I’m talking about the AppleTV, I’m talking about iDevices like the iPhone, Touch and iPad being in the hands of people who are in the living room. What Apple hasn’t won is the TV or entertainment center in the living room.

apple has in no way won the 'living room'. and they aren't going to with that lame apple tv that just came out. that was the biggest let down of the year.
watching the old 'think different' ad on youtube the other day, i realized that apple today is not counterculture, it isn't 'revolutionary' (in the way they portray it) and it is about as relevant as Paul Mccartney (you admire him for what he did in the past but he isn't really doing much except entertaining the old folks at this point).
i should add the young too. its the computer made by Disney....
post #180 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

And exactly how is this is different from Apple approved software on iOS devices?

I think it is exactly the same.
post #181 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

According to Apple's COO, Tim Cook, 80% of fortune 100 companies are using the iPhone and 50% are using the iPad. Would you consider that meaningful or just hot air?

I don't think there's enough information to know whether or not it's a meaningful figure. My own products are used somewhere in several Fortune 100 companies, but that's not really meaningful if they might have one or two units each company. There's no information telling us exactly how widespread the device is used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I thought of this the other day and while its somewhat semantics its also a change in the way we use computers in the home so I think its relevant: Apple already owns the living room.

Im talking about the AppleTV, Im talking about iDevices like the iPhone, Touch and iPad being in the hands of people who are in the living room. What Apple hasnt won is the TV or entertainment center in the living room.

That sounds contradictory to me. I gather that when most people say "the living room" in terms of electronics, they mean the TV and entertainment center. Rejiggering the meaning to also include iPad and iPhone smacks of newspeak to me.
post #182 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I agree that the WP7 looks quite credible. But I think MS would be stupid to target Apple. Apple is not their rival here.

Their real target should be Android. Their goal is persuading Android manufacturers to switch to MS. And I think the way to do that is to keep pushing their "delightful" and "personal" selling points.

My concern is that Microsoft is culturally very weak at communicating this kind of message.


An example of very bad Microsoft communication

C.

Considering how small smartphone market share is, I don't think MS is targeting anyone in specific... and at the same time, targeting everyone out there. It is not about getting market share from others, it is about getting (still) untapped market share before others.

I think RIM should be most worried at present. Everything they have achieved with their Blackberry Server piggy-back on Exchange, MS will be able to offer with integrated, native support. Likely more, in time... and with arguably more streamlined, modern units and GUI. Then there is Live integration that might hurt iOS, being the strongest gaming phone platform out there at present. At the end of a day, Android might do best (and suffer less) as MS is doing more controlled, Apple-esquire approach which does not compete directly with Android's open approach.
post #183 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

It will be real interesting to see how Apple plans to differentiate their offering to ensure they stand apart of the sea of clones...

Apple does what Apple wants not because someone else is doing something. And remember that we are talking about JAAC devices here "Just Another APPLE Clone". So the real question is 'what is everyone else doing to make themselves stand out from Apple'

Quote:
Releasing a new iPhone once a year on a single carrier, isn't the way to do it.

Apple made it clear from day one that the ATT deal was limited. And they have not shut the door on unlocked phones in areas that don't legally require it.

As for the hardware,don't expect it to be more than once a year. Testing and such takes time. Apple is going to spend it and release one good phone a year than skip it or cut it down and release 2-3 so so phones. Especially when you consider that for almost every carrier 12 months is the earliest you can possibly get another upgrade (if you are paying a small fortune every month)
post #184 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Is it not true that BB and Microsoft both have lost market share to Apple in the business sector - despite their perceived productivity prowess?

With the SDK, companies do not have to rely on Apple. They can create their own productivity tools. Which tablet dominates the landscape if not the iPad?

Er... which other tablet is out there..?

I don't think you can compare option to develop your own apps with option to integrate your phone nicely with your desktop apps and whole corporate network out of the box. Not every business wants to invest money into having their own programmers and with uncertain results...
post #185 of 334
Bob for Windows Phone 7 phones? That interface really looks like the ADD desktop.

Also anyone besides me think it is stupid to call them "Windows Phone 7 phones"?
post #186 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Sprint support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a Windows Mobile OS problem. You will need to contact Microsoft customer support...

Microsoft support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a hardware problem. You will need to contact HTC customer support...

HTC support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a network problem. You will need to contact Sprint customer support...

Apple Support Line: All cellphones drop calls when held in your hand.
post #187 of 334
So which phone do I choose? Seriously, nine phones means consumer confusion. Do some phones have features that others don't? Which phone has all of the features?

I'll choose the iPhone - I know what I'm getting.
post #188 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

Instafail, whether it's 7 or 9... both are beyond the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two">avera ge person's short-term memory</a> limit (ie, between 4-7 depending on person).

Also going to cause purchase paralysis. This is why Apple only sells 1-3 versions of each of their products (ie, MacBook, MBP, iMac, MacPro, etc). People know what they're getting and have a limited choice (which promotes decision making).

At least in the Android world, there is only one "top" phone at any given time.

Microsoft, I better hope you got your business buyers primed, because for consumers, this is a face-plant of a sales strategy.

That... doesn't... make... much... sense.

Following that logic, Hugo Boss, Versace... should have only 1 man suit every year. Maybe in 2 colours (but make one impossible to find). Because having variety of suits does not promote decision making, and we all know everyone wants to wear the same suit and be another me-too, like during worldwide-nostalgic Chinese Cultural Revolution.

post #189 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think it's an interesting ad, well done, but I think what they're selling (we can get you-- or perhaps more pointedly those other dicks who keep ramming into you-- involved in life again by making your phone so easy to use you rarely have to look at it) is nonsensical.

You're right that it might stir some interest, but I can't see that translating into sales. Windows Phone 7 will sink or swim on its merits, not some high concept "this fixes a terrible wrong" campaign.

Now, of course, this might just be an initial teaser piece, with more substantial sales pitches to come, but it sort of sounds like the hook they're going to hang the whole campaign on--"get in and get out fast." But the trouble there is that's not what people want to do with their phones. If it were, they'd already be doing it, because neither iOS or Android actually preclude, say, quickly checking your email and putting your phone away. Compulsively needing to be constantly in touch is not a failure of hardware or software, and pretending like it is really can't build good will.

Precisely.

I don't even think it will intrigue people, because they usually don't like a caricature of themselves (a justified one for that matter) thrown at them.

And some are sensible enough too to understand the whole idiocy of this campaign:
You want us to use our smart phones less and be more involved in life, so you are selling us another smart phone which is supposed to be even more intuitive to use so we are going to use it LESS than we already do.

So it's either no thanks -the defensive stance- I am already using my phone as much as I want to, or it's -the more aware stance- what the hell are you on about? If you wan't me to get a rest from email checking, texting, calendars etc. then sell me a one way trip to some god forsaken island or at the very least a dumb phone from 10 years ago.

On a side note, MS have started (alongside their track record of vapourware, bloatware, etc.) to build an impressive track record of failed and extremely misguided ad campaigns. And to me it seems the harder they try, the worse it gets. I really did mean it that the Jerry Seinfeld shoe ads and the bang bus styled laptop hunter ones, strangely enough make more sense than this admittedly very pleasing visually but colossally misguided ad. It's very funny btw how they aimed for some high concept ad, including a social phenomenon in and all, only to make it even more vapid than their previous ads.

Why can't they get a cue from apple, again, here too, and make a simple ad?

Enough with the garbage, people are very ad savvy nowadays, and most of them can smell a crock of shit. Don't patronize them on how often they use their phones or how better you are to everyone else. Because you aren't better than anyone else microsoft, and people are very aware of that, and you know why? Because they paid with their hard earned cash to get a device from someone else instead. So, seeing you are in the tight corner you painted yourselves into, just make a simple ad, because everyone knows you are not going to revolutionize shit, because you never did, because the last time you tried to have a similar campaign for the kids' phones only 534 poor kids were suckered in.

So what you should have done, is get your damn phones out there, get some of the good paid reviews out, and some of the morons in the flock commenting about them on the engadgets and the macrumors of this world, and put out a simple campaign that says hey you most probably have our os on your computer, here, we make pretty good phones too, these are our new ones, check them out. That should have been the motto.

But patronizing people on phone usage and selling them horse shit revolutions in terms of user interface isn't going to get you very far. Especially when people pick up an iphone, and they can tether, video chat, copy paste, run background apps, have tons of apps, all a touch away and you don't have any of that.

Of course one can sneakily respond to me, that's their whole point, if you have a smart phone that can't do shit you use it less and you get more involved in life. Hypothetical point well taken.
post #190 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

So which phone do I choose? Seriously, nine phones means consumer confusion. Do some phones have features that others don't? Which phone has all of the features?

I'll choose the iPhone - I know what I'm getting.

This is a common complaint on this board, that implies people are truly stupid.

As an aside, You must have a REALLY hard time going out to eat, or maybe you never go out because of all those choices. I mean a menu with lots and lots of choices. Do you ever manage to order?


It is multiple phones, but on any given carrier, there are 2 or 3. Not that big a problem.
post #191 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That sounds contradictory to me. I gather that when most people say "the living room" in terms of electronics, they mean the TV and entertainment center. Rejiggering the meaning to also include iPad and iPhone smacks of newspeak to me.

Sure, that's why people think of when you hear living room in relation to electronics, but I tried to address where I'm coming from. It wasn't that long ago when having an electronic device that wasn't a remote control was common, much less one that connected to the Internet. My point, when using the term literally, is that Apple is fully involved in many living rooms.

PS: Note that Steve Jobs stated earlier this year that Apple was the largest mobile company (or something like that), and he pointed out that he was including notebook computers in that tally, which is something he'd have to say while it's technically accurate it's not how we tend to use the word mobile in that context.
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post #192 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yeah, the 3G is not Apple's best iPhone -- and iOS 4 adds little to the mix.

The 3G is almost 3 years old, running an iOS built for current iPhones.

Comparing that to a still-unavailable phone with vastly superior specs is not a fair or valid comparison, IMO.

.

The iPhone 3G is two years, four months old, you might want to wait another four months or so to say it is "almost 3 years old"
post #193 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Microsoft is actually going to ship Windows Phone 7 (WP7) without copy and paste? Are you kidding me? What year is this?

My thought exactly! That would be like Apple shipping the iPad without a front facing camera.

oh, wait....
post #194 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323 View Post

Hit or miss MS. If I didn't have my iPhone and At&t, and if I was with another carrier I would gladly try out a windows 7 phone. If I could live without multi-tasking for months or iOS 4 to be exact, I'm pretty sure I could live without cut, copy and paste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vexorg View Post

LOL. got me there. That is something of an exception, though. They normally lick their wounds and try harder until they get it.

Actually Zune HD is fine product. Too late to commercially compete with iDevices on it's own, but as a part of phone platform there is nothing wrong with it.
post #195 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

My thought exactly! That would be like Apple shipping the iPad without a front facing camera.

oh, wait....

Cut the stupid sarcasm. Tiresome. Especially when the point you're trying to make does not wash.

When Apple introduced the iPad, it created the category. What it chose to put in or leave out is what the category had or did not. Period. The touch-bsed smartphone is now nearly a four-year-old product with a lot of credible benchmarks.
post #196 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

That... doesn't... make... much... sense.

Following that logic, Hugo Boss, Versace... should have only 1 man suit every year. Maybe in 2 colours (but make one impossible to find). Because having variety of suits does not promote decision making, and we all know everyone wants to wear the same suit and be another me-too, like during worldwide-nostalgic Chinese Cultural Revolution.


No your analogy couldn't be further from the truth. You are comparing very different things.

A device such as a laptop or computer is something you buy and have only ONE of in the vast majority of cases. But you can (and you if you can afford it you should) buy more suits for more occasions. Suits are also much, much less about function (any suit functions the same way, while smart phone don't) and almost everything to do with style. Suits cater also to different builds and sizes of people. They cater to different seasons. Different fabrics...There's no spec sheet either with suits, Etc, etc, all in all a very failed analogy.

There's a reason why apple simplified their line, why Steve did to be precise, and it was hard earned lesson from the tech history that almost drove apple to the ground. Apparently again here microsoft refuses to learn and they dilute whatever little momentum they have with nine models. Who wouldn't be overwhelmed by having to chose and compare specs 9 models? I get a headache just thinking about it. People want to hear microsoft come up and say, here it is, after mucking about for this long, we have one or a couple of great phones, here's what they do and why they do it well. Go buy them. They are great. Simple, simple, simple...for anyone remotely following the industry....but for the morons at ms management it's not.

Shame really because I did want to see someone put google back in their place. And what I had previously suggested for ms to do where a few easy steps that would guarantee them success.
Make your own phones, choose one manufacturer, and make at most two or three phones, great in specs. Do that even for less profit.
Tightly monitor os hardware integration, finally get one or two screen sizes so you and devs can work at.
Open source parts of your os so you can hit google on it's weaker side and get geeks on your side.
Undercut apple in app store cut you are going to be getting and in developers fees yearly.
F. google over by getting your ads from bing in apps instead of google's.
Integrate your music service with some big name such as amazon so you can stand a chance to hit itunes.
Try to put on killer feature in, be it syncing over the cloud, wireless syncing at home etc. just think of something for a change and put all your available resources in that to make sure that you have a single feature no one else does.

And that's how you render a good blow to your competitors.
post #197 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

MS really did something different here,

for me the question is "Did Microsoft go a different way because their research etc told them that this is a better way? Or are they simply trying to be as not iOS as they can?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I would also argue that while the iPad currently dominates the landscape, it's not geared for any kind of serious productivity. It's a netbook replacement aimed almost solely at passive consumption of media and social activities which can just as easily be done on a phone.

Actually it can be done better on the ipad. Larger screen for browsing non 'mobile friendly' websites, watching video etc.

And not geared for productivity depends on how you define the term. My company has been using ipads on set and in client meetings since they came out. We are now almost 100% paper free (still have to have those paper work forms for extras and such). I've seen them around several clients offices, restaurants, at the bank and so on. Plus I've seen apps for all sorts of uses, including one for viewing the feeds from your security cameras

Perhaps what you mean is that it is not geared for your type of productivity and that's fair. But it doesn't mean there's no usefulness for others.

Quote:
Apple hasn't announced anything in that area, and there are no rumours of them even testing different form factors for the iPad at this stage.

Then you haven't been reading. Because there have been several statements that Apple tested several sizes and forms before releasing anything. Including this precious 7 inch size that everyone is jumping on


Quote:
Originally Posted by alanclarkdesign View Post

According to a video on the BBC website - there's no Flash?!

That is my understanding as well. However it is due to Adobe not releasing a Win 7 version of their Mobile Flash. As soon as they release it, Microsoft is ready, willing and able to support it. Compared to Apple who basically said Adobe can stick it

Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

My understanding is that only M$-approved software can be installed.

My issue with their system was the fees. If I read it right, there's a fee just to get into the program and then a fee for every upload (to the tune of something like $100 each time). Ouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

Android is a copy from iOS. I just think they are evil and disgusting.

For all we know, Google licensed the look and feel and the various needed tech from Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

And exactly how is this is different from Apple approved software on iOS devices?

I believe the comment was more "I'll be dammed if anyone tells me what I can and can do on my phone. THat's why I didn't get an iphone and why I won't get a WinPhone. Or if I do, I'll jailbreak by the end of the first day."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

If this has been posted elsewhere, you'll excuse me I'm sure.

Windows Phone Really? Ad

What a horrible ad. Sure it is pretty but seeing the back of the phone does nothing to sell the phone.

As cheesy as the iphone/ipod/ipad ads are, at least we are seeing the device in action

Microsoft is trying to sell the phone as a device to not use. Doesn't really work when you don't show why you won't be navel gazing at it all the time
post #198 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by OskiO View Post

My thought exactly! That would be like Apple shipping the iPad without a front facing camera.

oh, wait....

Yeah well, with the slight difference, that when apple was selling its non camera enabled device, no one else was even close to having anything like this device available with or without a camera, whilst now that ms are selling their phone with a missing feature, everyone else has phone a few years out already, without that feature missing.

And guess what's even funnier!!!

People already accustomed to copying and pasting will pick up their shinny windows 7 phones (replacing maybe some older iphone or a less capable android phone,) they 'll then try to paste on an email say they are trying to send and as soon as they figure out that they can't do what they are so accustomed at doing, they ll fedex it straight back to Steve Balmer's orifice whence the no copy paste "function" in 2010 came from.

And then in a glorious press conference some time later ms will announce that they are proud to present service pack 1 for windows phones 7 that includes copy and paste, but not tethering of course which will come with service pack 2. As for video calling, it's on to 8 but of course you 'll have to buy a new handset too....The more it changes, the more it stays the same.
post #199 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

So which phone do I choose?

the one that suits your needs and criteria.

Quote:
Do some phones have features that others don't? Which phone has all of the features?

you would have to do some reading and/or engage in some discussion(s) which is exactly what you did leading up to your purchase of the iPhone.
post #200 of 334
You just get an iphone because you can't be arsed to look over spec sheets from 9 phones and do a mini bibliographical report on them, just to get a damn phone, there are more important things in life than trying to figure out why these bozos had 9 phones out to begin with.
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