Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets - Page 6

Originally Posted by nikon133

... Apple-esquire approach which does not compete directly with Android's open approach.

Originally Posted by Chris_CA

Sprint support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a Windows Mobile OS problem. You will need to contact Microsoft customer support...

Microsoft support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a hardware problem. You will need to contact HTC customer support...

HTC support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a network problem. You will need to contact Sprint customer support...

Originally Posted by addabox

I think it's an interesting ad, well done, but I think what they're selling (we can get you-- or perhaps more pointedly those other dicks who keep ramming into you-- involved in life again by making your phone so easy to use you rarely have to look at it) is nonsensical.

You're right that it might stir some interest, but I can't see that translating into sales. Windows Phone 7 will sink or swim on its merits, not some high concept "this fixes a terrible wrong" campaign.

Originally Posted by solipsism

I dont recall Steve Jobs marketing what will be over what they have currently. Show me one interview where Apple is pimping their current products by pimping features they would obviously add at some future date. Even the day before the iOS 4.0 demonstration multitasking still was just a rumour. Same goes for cut/copy/paste in iPhone OS 3.0.

Originally Posted by grking

I must have hit a nerve. A few points. Yes, this is an Apple board, but in spite of that, Apple is not the center of the Universe. Also, I said Apple, not iPhone, you should learn to read.

A few issues.

1. MS is creating an ecosystem for Windows users similar to that for Mac users with iTunes etc. There is no incentive for a Mac User to a WP7 phone.
2. There is no support for Mac users at all in WP7, hence Apple is not a target.
3. BB does Business well, entertainment, not so much. The WP7 phone does both. Hence, BB is a target.
4. Android has no unified ecosystem, WP7 does, hence Android is a target.
5. Windows users who have an iPhone. Depending on the person there may be an incentive to switch (e.g., active Xbox gamer with Live account), but for some Windows users there will not be a compelling reason to switch. Hence, the iPhone is only indirectly a target.

See, if you stop and take some time to think about things, it is not all that hard.

Originally Posted by nikon133

I don't see anything wrong telling potential customers what to expect in the next update (and when is it expected). One way or another you have to wait for missing features, not knowing if they will come at all doesn't really beat knowing that they are in the pipeline.

Originally Posted by nikon133

if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform (promised to be) better integrated with their deskops & laptops, then it really require some extra imagination to conclude Apple is not a target.

Originally Posted by boeyc15

Back to topic, I'm sorry aesthetics do matter, and these widgets or tiles sure are ugly... IMO.
Here's hopeing iOS 5 has some limited widgets.

In the end, how much more stuff(useful hardware stuff) can they cram into these phones? Next big thing seems to be local data xfer(pay via credit card, control tv etc). Darn, off topic again, sorry.

Originally Posted by chocolim

How long you wait for reals apps in the phone?
How long you wait for copy & paste?
How long you wait for multitask?
How long you wait for stereo audio via bluetooth? if you go to the gym with wires headphones, you blow it

Originally Posted by Firefly7475

The ads don't need to make sense.

Look at the entire "I'm a Mac" ad campaign, none of them made a great amount of sense. The idea was that if you are overweight, old, ugly, dull and/or stupid you own a PC, and if you are sexy, young, cool, creative and/or smart you own a Mac. A lot of people still believe this, such was the strength of the campaign.

Most advertising is like this. Flip through the first 20 pages of a womans magazine and I bet you won't come across any tech specs or descriptions of why product X is better than product Y just a whole lot of "look at all of the beautiful famous people using our product".

Originally Posted by solipsism

If MS can pull off the ecosystem and pull people from iTunes that will be big, but it will be slow moving, especially compared to WP7-based phones taking a huge chunk of purchases away from Blackberry and Android-based phones.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Surely there is a middle ground between how Apple operates in secrecy and what others do to generate free press and stall buyers if you are companies like MS, but Ill take Apples method any day over one that promises things may not actually arrive.

Originally Posted by charlituna

What a horrible ad. Sure it is pretty but seeing the back of the phone does nothing to sell the phone.

As cheesy as the iphone/ipod/ipad ads are, at least we are seeing the device in action

Microsoft is trying to sell the phone as a device to not use. Doesn't really work when you don't show why you won't be navel gazing at it all the time

Originally Posted by Denton

If this has been posted elsewhere, you'll excuse me I'm sure.

Windows Phone Really? Ad

Originally Posted by addabox

Again, the Windows Phone 7 ad doesn't do any of that, it just presents a flatly self-contradictory idea. Just because much advertising isn't particularly logical doesn't mean it doesn't make a certain kind of sense. I don't think the ad in question makes any kind of sense.

Originally Posted by Carniphage

I agree that the WP7 looks quite credible. But I think MS would be stupid to target Apple. Apple is not their rival here.

Their real target should be Android. Their goal is persuading Android manufacturers to switch to MS. And I think the way to do that is to keep pushing their "delightful" and "personal" selling points.

Originally Posted by nikon133

You have very original, albeit technically correct point of view

However... if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform (promised to be) better integrated with their deskops & laptops, then it really require some extra imagination to conclude Apple is not a target.

I know number of people having iPhones, and none of them has Mac. True, Apple ecosystem users will not dump iPhone for WP7 even if later does support OSX, but iPhone's success is achieved by its capability to leave limited circle of OSX users and spread among Windows users as well.

And by targeting those Windows users, MS is targeting Apple's market share, current or future.

Or do you believe there are more OSX users than Windows users among iPhone owners..?

Originally Posted by Firefly7475

Sounds like you don't really understand advertising. That's cool, don't stress on it.

Originally Posted by solipsism

I dont recall Steve Jobs marketing what will be over what they have currently. Show me one interview where Apple is pimping their current products by pimping features they would obviously add at some future date. Even the day before the iOS 4.0 demonstration multitasking still was just a rumour. Same goes for cut/copy/paste in iPhone OS 3.0.

Originally Posted by rbonner

Hmmm, except the Kin and Zune.

Originally Posted by addabox

Yeah, that must be it.

So do you have any actual observations re the difference between emotional appeals and incoherent appeals? Or are you just going to go with stock internet douche move #12 and call it a day?

Originally Posted by kotatsu

As someone who has owned 2 iPhones (currently on an iPhone 4), I have to say I like Windows Phone a lot from what I've seen. Rather than just being an iOS clone (like Android), it's something new and original.

The hardware line-up is pretty ugly though, and curiously seems to top out at 16gb of storage. (64gb next time please) But I do like the idea of a choice of models, some with huge screens, and I like the idea of Xbox Live/Achievements, and allowing apps to integrate themselves fully into the phone. (such as Last FM plugging directly into the Zune app)

Sounds like a good start to me and I'll be watching closely. Plus the Zune desktop app is massively superior to the mess that is iTunes.

Originally Posted by nikon133

if MS manages to persuade any significant number of PC users to move from iPhone and iTunes to a platform

Originally Posted by palegolas

I gotta admit Windows Phone 7 looks great. Booth screens and videos. If it works as smooth as it looks I think it'll take a large cut of the cake.

Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore

Actually, I think I would disagree with you here. What Microsoft is doing (and certainly MUST do) with this release is two fold. Differentiate from the Apple GUI benchmark (where Android went, instead of the BB model GUI). And play to their "strengths".

So first, differentiate. With Android being the primary eroder of the WinPhone market on the usual handsets and all the carriers - they need to address that. This does it rather successfully - it is different than the Android platform GUI which is necessary - but still on familiar hardware and all the carriers. You KNOW they will partner with the handset makers to BOGO or market the crap out of these, and incentivize downscaling Android - whether by lawsuit or by licensing. They will incentivize the carriers in the usual manner.

Second, playing to their strengths. While you may not think of Zune as anyone's idea of a strength - XBox arguably is. And if you can combine services delivery between the two systems - so much the better. Whether they have the right approach remains to be seen. XBox requires a fair amount of overhead, so that is not a given. Office - that's a given. Do they have a decent touch interface for the platform - not from what I've seen so far - but that can change. The tiles thing is a meh in my book, too much fishing for where things are - especially as my needs change as i move from work mode to play mode.

I don't see the iPhone productivity/usability thing as an Achilles heel issue. In fact the jugular as I mentioned previously is on the Android platform or the Blackberry/RIM platform. Apple has never been seen as a threat from the corporate side to Redmond, and isn't now. No, these are targeting RIM and Google - RIM for its intrusion into corporate delivery systems - Microsoft want's you off those BES and solely on Exchange - with a native Exchange client on the WP7 device. And they want you on a handset running WP7, not Android - or at the very least running on a version of Android licensed by Microsoft. The number of business users from the corporate side who would actually do anything other than review docs on a smartphone is very small, and is not playing to the larger consumer market. Now it may well be a part of the market Microsoft wants nailed down in their OS, but it's not a larger market threat.

FWTW, I don't "hate" Microsoft. I carry a number of their certs as a professional, but I don't think they actually "get it" in the same way Apple gets it from a consumer perspective. And again, it LOOKS like they are not aiming ahead of the target with this - but I will be just as happy to be proven wrong on this.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

Yes, but these are third party add-ons and at least one requires a jailbreak. I was talking about the basic functionality of the device as envisioned by the designers (Apple). Moving files around between iOS devices or between iOS devices and desktops is basically non-functional at this point. The kludge they use in iTunes to force files onto the device is counter-intutitve at best, buggy, and has different implementations depending on what app you are using.

It seems clear even to a casual observer that Apple doesn't *want* (at least so far), to allow users easy access to their files or an easy way to move files on and off the devices. Needless to say, I find this a huge barrier to productivity of any kind.

Apple usually quotes security concerns as the reason why they don't (when they comment at all), and they use the same excuse for not having a home screen that updates with useful information as almost every other device on the market has. I find these to be specious claims that are just handy to throw out as excuses.

Maybe they will fix all this stuff someday. I'm just tired of waiting.

Originally Posted by myapplelove

Or are you waiting on the Microsoft miracle that somehow as soon as they open they will outshine all the rest of the developers from all other platforms all over the globe that have worked their asses off these past years to actually make app stores a reality?

Originally Posted by solipsism


Im talking about the AppleTV, Im talking about iDevices like the iPhone, Touch and iPad being in the hands of people who are in the living room. What Apple hasnt won is the TV or entertainment center in the living room.

Originally Posted by nvidia2008

Yet another phone (this time a whole new phone OS) with no Flash on it. Where are all these Full Internet phones we've been promised by Adobe et al. ?

Not so much a jab at MS but everyone that says iPhone fails because control freak Jobs don't want no Flash.

The fact of the matter is many phones are not powerful enough to run Flash, Froyo 2.2 is on a much smaller percentage of new and current phones than one might think, and WP7, Symbian and BB all don't have Flash. Not looking good for Adobe.

If WP7 starts giving Android a run for its money that means essentially of all the OSes for phones only Android has Flash, marginalising Flash even more.

Originally Posted by appl

Are you proud to be a simpleton? Throwing in with those too stupid to compare products?

Why?

Originally Posted by myapplelove

You just get an iphone because you can't be arsed to look over spec sheets from 9 phones and do a mini bibliographical report on them, just to get a damn phone, there are more important things in life than trying to figure out why these bozos had 9 phones out to begin with.

Originally Posted by Menno

Tethering for OS 3.0, didn't come out in the US until almost a year later (but you'll blame this one on ATT, fair enough)

-Game Center (huge part of OS4.0 announcement, didn't launch with it, said it would come in an update)
-airplay (Big part of the ipod announcement, won't be on the main device they pimped it on, the ipad, until November)
-OS 4.0 for ipad

I'm sure there are more, but as all those happened in the last few months, I figured that was as good a spot to start as any.

Originally Posted by nealg

Will security be an issue on this new phone? I don't know and probably no one else does either but is this a concern, especially since this is MSFT, or is this not an issue right now? Anyone care to speculate?

Neal

Originally Posted by solipsism

Nothing in my post suggested that iOS 5.0 would only be for the G5 iPhone.

Originally Posted by screamingfist

apple has in no way won the 'living room'. and they aren't going to with that lame apple tv that just came out. that was the biggest let down of the year.
watching the old 'think different' ad on youtube the other day, i realized that apple today is not counterculture, it isn't 'revolutionary' (in the way they portray it) and it is about as relevant as Paul Mccartney (you admire him for what he did in the past but he isn't really doing much except entertaining the old folks at this point).
i should add the young too. its the computer made by Disney....