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Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets - Page 9

post #321 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

It might be my age but I am Dick on this one. I understand Facebook but do not use it. Twitter I do not really get for 99% of he time. Yes it was great for Iran but for most of the time I do not see the point as I am no interested in the minutes of people's thoughts or lives. To me it just seems largely narcissistic of hey look at me.

If I need to let my friends and family know something I send an email text or god forbid I make a phone call. That is just me though

Twitter is a tool that can reflect the needs of its users, but what you get depends on your choices. No one is asking if you put mustard on your hamburger. Yours is a popular perception, but what a person posts on Twitter varies based on the person, your description is but a subset of the types of people that post. Some people are like what you describe, but I don't know about most. I tend to follow people like Grant Imahara, he often posts funny or interesting photos on set of Mythbusters, or a news organization or web sites that post headlines the instant a story article is available (like Carniphage was saying, an RSS substitute). Some people just post funny things. I followed a trade show and an air show, to get up to the minute news approaching and during the event. Neil DeGrasse Tyson posts informative and interesting cosmological insights. AmazonMP3 has a feed telling you what MP3 albums are on sale.
post #322 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

It might be my age but I am Dick on this one. I understand Facebook but do not use it. Twitter I do not really get for 99% of the time.

Depends how you choose to use it. Twitter can be turned into a customised news source. Just follow the sources you trust - and the quality of information is denser and more relevant than any RSS feed. An app like Flipboard takes your Twitter feed and builds a customised newspaper.

Yes it can be used for social networking - but it's just as good for tech stories or politics or breaking news.

C.
post #323 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Twitter is a tool that can reflect the needs of its users. No one is asking if you put mustard on your hamburger. Yours is a popular perception, but what a person posts on Twitter varies based on the person, your description is but a subset of the types of people that post. Some people are like what you describe, but I don't know about most. I tend to follow people like Grant Imahara, he often posts funny or interesting photos on set of Mythbusters, or a news organization or web sites that post headlines the instant a story article is available (like Carniphage was saying, an RSS substitute). Some people just post funny things. I followed a trade show and an air show, to get up to the minute news approaching and during the event. Neil DeGrasse Tyson posts informative and interesting cosmological insights. AmazonMP3 has a feed telling you what MP3 albums are on sale.

My view of Twitter was much like grking's but I finally started using it because it was do popular among my friends that I thought I'd give it a try. For the forensic months I had the account I rarely used it. Then it clicked.

It's now how I post simple updates like I did with Facebook which I've since dropped. It's just more efficient and simpler for my needs.

It's also I get relevant news like I would have done with Google Alerts and RSS feeds. I still use RSS but often now get that info via Twitter faster than RSS. Daring Fireball is an example.

I also get info and jokey comments from people that I would have never had had the chance before. Like deGrasse Tyson and Ebert.
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post #324 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

It might be my age but I am Dick on this one. I understand Facebook but do not use it. Twitter I do not really get for 99% of he time. Yes it was great for Iran but for most of the time I do not see the point as I am no interested in the minutes of people's thoughts or lives. To me it just seems largely narcissistic of hey look at me.

If I need to let my friends and family know something I send an email text or god forbid I make a phone call. That is just me though

For me too, sure If I use it I might find something of use, but it's hardly something I could be arsed to try.
post #325 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My view of Twitter was much like grking's but I finally started using it because it was do popular among my friends that I thought I'd give it a try. For the forensic months I had the account I rarely used it. Then it clicked.

It's now how I post simple updates like I did with Facebook which I've since dropped. It's just more efficient and simpler for my needs.

It's also I get relevant news like I would have done with Google Alerts and RSS feeds. I still use RSS but often now get that info via Twitter faster than RSS. Daring Fireball is an example.

I also get info and jokey comments from people that I would have never had had the chance before. Like deGrasse Tyson and Ebert.

I know that you can "follow people" and all, but maybe I am a curmudgeon, but there just are not that many people I am interested in "hearing" on a regular basis.

I do understand the bit about headlines and breaking "news", but that is what it is - a headline. The format does not really support news in the sense of background and context - it is more a series of headlines, or stream of consciousness thing from the person. I find Google alerts or RSS feeds at least give me more information than can generally be conveyed in (is it) 240 characters.

As to updates, maybe I just do not think I am that interesting, but there are few updates that I would make to a "large" audience. Most updates would be for specific people or a small number of people, and then I would call, text or email.

Again, this is just me, and I do know that lots of people love it, I just don't get its widespread popularity.
post #326 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I think there is some imprecise thinking in your post.

iOS is rich in APIs which make the device location (and orientation) aware. And out of the box - Apple provides an application which exploits those APIs and presents them as the Google map application. But the exact same API is used by different apps. The map data in the Twitter App for example uses the OS to provide map data customised for that application.

Windows Phone 7 does exactly the same. An application is launched which displays map info and exploits the location services in the OS.

The only real difference is how the user finds and launches these. The Apple model presents a matrix of application icons - which can be organised by the user to suit their needs. Each icon equates to an application. While the Windows model presents a selection of activity centric hubs - off which are located applications which relate to the theme of the hub.

The two approaches are equivalent ways of doing the same thing. The only relevant question is which method gets you the answers faster, and which is the easiest to understand.

So while I like the tidiness of having this top-level hierarchy. I am not sure how beneficial it is. Because a lot of stuff just does not fit into hub-hierarchies. Is Email a social activity in the People Hub or an Office Hub activity? Would the Twitter app be in the People Hub - or if it a bought app, should I head to the marketplace hub? The WP7 user would have to learn and remember that stuff. The iPhone user has all the functionality presented at the top layer. The only hierarchies are user-created folders.

Some of the work on hubs is clearly a good idea. Having Facebook integration into contacts is smart. But I personally hate Facebook, and I use Twitter for everything. But MS is hardwired into Facebook, and my preference is not one that MS agrees with.

I do think MS deserves a lot of credit for doing something different. Just not convinced that it is a radically better way of solving these problems.

C.


I was not clear, but you did get my point. Yes Hubs and apps do much the same thing, but in very different ways.

The difference is that for iOS, you have to go find the app to do something that you want, and in WP7, much (not all) of that functionality is built into the OS.
post #327 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I know that you can "follow people" and all, but maybe I am a curmudgeon, but there just are not that many people I am interested in "hearing" on a regular basis.

I do understand the bit about headlines and breaking "news", but that is what it is - a headline. The format does not really support news in the sense of background and context - it is more a series of headlines, or stream of consciousness thing from the person. I find Google alerts or RSS feeds at least give me more information than can generally be conveyed in (is it) 240 characters.

As to updates, maybe I just do not think I am that interesting, but there are few updates that I would make to a "large" audience. Most updates would be for specific people or a small number of people, and then I would call, text or email.

Again, this is just me, and I do know that lots of people love it, I just don't get its widespread popularity.

140 characters.

Twitter or me is mostly like reading a newspaper, news website, magazine, or RSS feed... just faster. I see a headline and if it interests me I click the supplied link to read the article. It's a springboard to consuming more info more efficiently.
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post #328 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

140 characters.

Twitter or me is mostly like reading a newspaper, news website, magazine, or RSS feed... just faster. I see a headline and if it interests me I click the supplied link to read the article. It's a springboard to consuming more info more efficiently.

Thanks for the info - I knew it was some sort of x40 characters.

I am glad it works for you. I must be old fashioned - I read the National and Local sections of my local paper every morning, and I read it all (except for ads).
post #329 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

The way I use Twitter is like some people use RSS. It delivers a feed of reliably and consistently interesting information.

For me it's more "News" than "Social". But there isn't a News hub on WP7. It's that rigidity I am skeptical about.

@carniphage

Hmm... I never thought of it that way-- a pseudo news feed... I'll look into that! Any suggestions for sites to follow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

It might be my age but I am Dick on this one. I understand Facebook but do not use it. Twitter I do not really get for 99% of he time. Yes it was great for Iran but for most of the time I do not see the point as I am no interested in the minutes of people's thoughts or lives. To me it just seems largely narcissistic of hey look at me.

If I need to let my friends and family know something I send an email text or god forbid I make a phone call. That is just me though

Ha!

My younger (isn't everybody) friends are more into Twitter than email or phone calls-- I sometimes need to DM them to tell them I sent an email for them to read.

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #330 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

My younger (isn't everybody) friends are more into Twitter than email or phone calls-- I sometimes need to DM them to tell them I sent an email for them to read.

.

Ain't that the truth brother. It is a generational thing to say the least. My daughter (just turned 12 and we got her a phone) has turned into a texting fiend, and figured out how to use iChat on her MacBook by herself. My wife is a professor, and her students do not really respond to her email announcements, but if you send them a text or a twitter, they respond in an instant. Go figure.
post #331 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Hmm... I never thought of it that way-- a pseudo news feed... I'll look into that! Any suggestions for sites to follow?

Depends on your interests...but yes, it's quite useful in getting near real time information. For example, when I was watching one of the last shuttle launches NASA had tweeted the launch cancellation before pretty much any other source...so we got in our car and drove away before the big rush.

I also use it as a tech info filter. There are a few very prolific folks that tweet about coding and other tech stuff.
post #332 of 334
I hope that Microsoft has been paying some attention to the phone's speed and responsiveness. Hopefully the phones developers didn't come over from the team that made Vista and Windows 7 :-).

Even Google's latest phone OS is pig-slow (Android 2.2). Dramatically slower than 2.1 (plus a whole bunch of new bugs). It's bad enough that if I'd bought the phone with 2.2 on it, I would have returned it and got something else.

Google got the UI pretty much right though, which Microsoft isn't often able to do (but don't worry, like any Microsoft product, 90% of the UI will change in the next release :-p).

Apple got the UI and the speed right, and TOGETHER that makes great usability. And that's why I think Apple deserves the amazing profits & will continue to dominate.

And you know what? I grew up as a PC guy, not a Mac guy.
post #333 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

The way I use Twitter is like some people use RSS. It delivers a feed of reliably and consistently interesting information.

For me it's more "News" than "Social". But there isn't a News hub on WP7. It's that rigidity I am skeptical about.

@carniphage


I'm one of the RSS users. Google Reader manages my RSS feeds which ensures no RSS items are missed when my computer is off and that all read\\unread items are sync'd across the computers I use. I use the Feeddler client on iPhone\\iPad which hooks into Google Reader as well. Interesting items or longer articles that I was to read later on a "starred" and automatically pulled into Instapaper. It all works rather well.


Back to Twitter... it's not like WP7 requires applications to fit into a hub. If something doesn't fit into a certain hub it can just be launched as a standalone application.

WP7 will actually have a very functional standalone Twitter application at launch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJUG_KAu4Jk.

In any case it seems that the main reason Twitter has been left out of WP7 at launch is due to changes in the Twitter TOS.

However, like you said, Twitter is different from social networks like Facebook and MySpace in that you follow a lot of people that aren't actually friends, and you don't want every person you follow to turn up as a contact in the "People" hub.

One idea (once Microsoft and Twitter come to an agreement over the TOS) is to have partial Twitter integration in the people hub. WP7 will pull down the Twitter feeds only for existing contacts, and will allow you a Tweet option when you update your social network status.

For a lot of people (like myself) that would actually be sufficient and more productive than opening up a separate Twitter application to check for new Tweets, for others (like yourself) that rely heavily on Twitter there is the standalone Twitter application.

All that said, I actually think a separate "News hub" would be a bloody good idea. A central place that pulls in news\\updates\\information from sources that aren't necessarily my friends.
post #334 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I'm one of the RSS users. Google Reader manages my RSS feeds which ensures no RSS items are missed when my computer is off and that all read\\unread items are sync'd across the computers I use. I use the Feeddler client on iPhone\\iPad which hooks into Google Reader as well. Interesting items or longer articles that I was to read later on a "starred" and automatically pulled into Instapaper. It all works rather well.

I tried for more than a year to get RSS to work for me. Went through a bunch of apps. And all the time I found that the piles of unread articles just built up. I found Twitter way more effective. It's easier to skim the feed and reject stuff. And easy to hop into links that interest me. Instapaper is there too for stuff that needs time-shifting. The iPad Twitter app makes this stuff a real pleasure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Back to Twitter... it's not like WP7 requires applications to fit into a hub. If something doesn't fit into a certain hub it can just be launched as a standalone application.

WP7 will actually have a very functional standalone Twitter application at launch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJUG_KAu4Jk.

That looks quite old-school to me. The iPhone app has this metaphor of "drilling down" into tweets and has an embedded web-browser to read the linked content. But there's no reason this can't get better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

All that said, I actually think a separate "News hub" would be a bloody good idea. A central place that pulls in news\\updates\\information from sources that aren't necessarily my friends.

That's my biggest reservation about these hard-wired hubs. It feels like a one-size-fits-all model that might not actually reflect how some people chose to work.

C.
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