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Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets - Page 2

post #41 of 334
Hit or miss MS. If I didn't have my iPhone and At&t, and if I was with another carrier I would gladly try out a windows 7 phone. If I could live without multi-tasking for months or iOS 4 to be exact, I'm pretty sure I could live without cut, copy and paste.
post #42 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

Also going to cause purchase paralysis. This is why Apple only sells 1-3 versions of each of their products (ie, MacBook, MBP, iMac, MacPro, etc). People know what they're getting and have a limited choice (which promotes decision making).

This is so true. My experience at the consumer digital camera aisle is dismal. So many cameras that even with knowledgeable help, I can't shake the feeling I'm making the wrong decision. My wife and I have attempted to replace her camera several times and each time there's no right camera (well, actually, too many right cameras). So, we walk away with the old one still in hand.

I've had the essentially the same feeling in all wireless stores I've visited. I wonder how often a phone salesman will say, "We have all these windows phones, and we have all those Android phones, and we have the iPhone." What's the decision process there?

Good point.
post #43 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

If Apple's profits are to be taken seriously, then releasing a single product once per year certainly seems the best strategy the market has seen to date.

iPhone is only locked to a single carrier in the USA. And I think that bizarre relationship is about to end in the next couple of months.

C.

What process do you go by when you buy a phone? I think about it, ask the opinion of those who have it, check out the reviews online etc. It is a fairly exhaustive process since you will be stuck with the thing for a couple of years, and you want to be sure to make the right decision.

To me there is nothing more frustrating then bringing the thing home, then 10 minutes later find out that a newer, improved model has just been released.

To me that is a problem with the Android line. It is a confusing, moving target. The breakneck product releases has a great potential to disappoint it's users.

There is something to be said for having a product cycle of once a year.

In terms of new "features and specs", I learned a lesson from my children years ago. When the boys were still much younger, I assembled them a gaming machine. All the best parts that I could find for a reasonable cost. When I was done, it could run Quake (baddest game at the time) amazingly well.

The kids took one look at it, said "very nice, Dad" and went back to playing Pokemon on the Nintendo 64, which had crappy graphics and sound.

What I took away from this is that regular non-geek users are much more interested in what they can do with a product. Having killer specs does not mean that much if the user experience is not what they are looking for.

I think that's part of the reason Apple products have so much appeal, despite not always having the latest whiz bang hardware.
post #44 of 334
This is from another site: (ZDNet)

Quote:
Microsoft launched its Windows Phone 7 with plans to give the smartphone a fresh start.

Just struck me as funny.
post #45 of 334
.

Was there any discussion of tablets at the WP7 announcement-- or were they smart and focused on phones only?

.
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post #46 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Is it not true that BB and Microsoft both have lost market share to Apple in the business sector - despite their perceived productivity prowess?

Perhaps, but the fact that RIM has lost market share doesn't necessarily equate to a losing the business market in that a large portion of Blackberry users are teenage girls who text as well. Also, Microsoft's initial offering (Windows Mobile), is and always has been absolute junk in terms of usability, (and I've used it myself on multiple devices) and both it and Blackberry OS are based on antiquated, almost "pre-smartphone" concepts. The fact that the arrival of multi-touch smartphones from Apple and Google caused them to lose share is not really that surprising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

With the SDK, companies do not have to rely on Apple. They can create their own productivity tools. Which tablet dominates the landscape if not the iPad?

This is true, but I have yet to see anyone do anything much with the SDK except dip buckets into the goldmine which is mobile gaming.

I would also argue that while the iPad currently dominates the landscape, it's not geared for any kind of serious productivity. It's a netbook replacement aimed almost solely at passive consumption of media and social activities which can just as easily be done on a phone. There is a serious danger IMO that the shine will wear off the iPad as quickly as it arrived and people will figure out that aside from the bigger screen, they can do almost anything they want to on an iPad, on a phone. Additionally, there hasn't been time for any competitors to the iPad to even come on sale yet, so the question of what is happening in the tablet market is really completely up in the air at this point.

What I see in the tablet market, is that lots of other competitors are coming out with products over the holiday season and in the first quarter of next year. Many of these are extremely focussed on productivity using the 7" form factor. Apple hasn't announced anything in that area, and there are no rumours of them even testing different form factors for the iPad at this stage.

Even if you just look at software, obvious boosts to the productivity side of the equation for iOS like providing a home screen with "at a glance information" or providing an integrated package of calendaring/email for the end user don't even seem to be on the horizon for Apple, and no developers that I've heard of are working on this kind of thing through the SDK either. Notifications still barely work on iOS. Even email is problematic in that I still can't rely on having access to all my email from an iOS device at all times even though I only use MobileMe for my email. Using the Apple mail app requires you getting your head around a lot of confusing duplication of mail folders as well. Many just give up on trying to figure it out and trust that everything is okay without really being in control of it at all. I never get that feeling when I use a more corporate based email system like Exchange. There is also no file system on iOS devices and no easy or intuitive way to transfer documents to an iOS device or back again. Even a simple "My documents" folder is seemingly out of the question for Apple. This just makes no sense at all to most end users.

Apple has a way of surprising us so they might pull it off yet, but I'm definitely worried about this state of affairs. I think Apple is moving too slow given the rapid development of the new mobile platform and (especially in the area of productivity), they aren't really offering much at this point. If they get enough iPads in peoples hands for watching TV shows with, they can still bolt on some productivity improvements later on and perhaps win the day, but I think they should be doing this now, instead of waiting for an entire summer of new Android (and now WinPhone 7) devices showing just how poor Apple's offering is in that regard. It's always better to strike first, rather than respond to a competitors product IMO.
post #47 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323 View Post

Hit or miss MS. If I didn't have my iPhone and At&t, and if I was with another carrier I would gladly try out a windows 7 phone. If I could live without multi-tasking for months or iOS 4 to be exact, I'm pretty sure I could live without cut, copy and paste.

I misread your first sentence as:

Hit or MS...

.
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post #48 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgl323 View Post

Hit or miss MS. If I didn't have my iPhone and At&t, and if I was with another carrier I would gladly try out a windows 7 phone. If I could live without multi-tasking for months or iOS 4 to be exact, I'm pretty sure I could live without cut, copy and paste.

The first release of a MS product tends to be clunky and buggy, but they have deep pockets and they do eventually tend to get things right after a couple of iterations. Competitors who ignore MS do so at their own peril.

I live in an MS free house, and work in an MS free office, but I think it would be folly for me to say that would always be the case.
post #49 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

I'd say Microsoft's real target here is and should be RIM. They are in decline, with market share percent way below installed base percent, and if Microsoft can pick up a significant number of the pieces there they might have something. No one's going to sell their iPhone or Android to buy a WM7 device, but as RIM flounders MS could stay in the game that way.

Agree, esp as ActiveSync gives enterprise users most of the benefits of BES without all the middleware and bloated carrier fees.
post #50 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Wow ... no verizon!

iPhone after 4 years, and no Verizon. Wow, the iPhone can't possibly succeed.

CDMA phones are supposed to come next year.
post #51 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Microsoft is actually going to ship Windows Phone 7 (WP7) without copy and paste? Are you kidding me? What year is this?

Everything about WP7 seems rushed. The hardware is underwhelming and inferior to the iPhone. The interface—Live Tiles specifically—looks like some bad web design from the late 90s. The animations are cheesy and overdone.

Microsoft thinks they’re going to regain market share with this? It’s not even competitive.

(Sadly, WP7 is probably more polished than Android.)

i think you are mistaken. several of the phones look good and ms may do well.

hold on...just looked at the specs on the samsung (which looks amazing like a 3gs phone) 3 hours talk time?
i take it back....and now add EPIC FAIL
post #52 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I agree that the WP7 looks quite credible. But I think MS would be stupid to target Apple. Apple is not their rival here.

Their real target should be Android. Their goal is persuading Android manufacturers to switch to MS. And I think the way to do that is to keep pushing their "delightful" and "personal" selling points.

My concern is that Microsoft is culturally very weak at communicating this kind of message.


An example of very bad Microsoft communication

C.

The target is not Apple, but BB and Android. MS took at page from Apple, and has created an complete ecosystem for Windows users. They have Office, Exchange, Games (Xbox Live integration) and Music and Movies (Zune Marketplace) and the app store is opening. One has to wonder why Apple all of a sudden created the Game Center and Social Network of iTunes, both of which MS has had for quite awhile.
post #53 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Now, Apple has some serious competition now with Google and Microsoft. Will the iPhone continue to be a cash cow for years and years to come? I am not so sure.

The profitability of Android and WP7 is an interesting subject. MS and Google are not hardware vendors. The hardware manufacturers outsource their software development to Google and Microsoft.

Although this saves them the cost of developing expensive software - it also means that the hardware vendors are robbed of the ability to innovate and differentiate their products. We have seen this in the Windows computer marketplace. The consumer perceives all Windows clone hardware as a commodity. No PC vendor makes more than a razor-thin profit margin. I don't see any reason why WP7/Android should follow a different narrative.

So while I think Android and Windows will pick up market share - I don't think they have any strategy to acquire profit share.

C.
post #54 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanleopard View Post

Agree, esp as ActiveSync gives enterprise users most of the benefits of BES without all the middleware and bloated carrier fees.

BES is crazy. blackberry 'data' doesn't include all data. cost you extra. license fee for server and for bb clients. goodbye RIM. you were okay for a while but now you suck.
post #55 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIM View Post

Microsoft is actually going to ship Windows Phone 7 (WP7) without copy and paste? Are you kidding me? What year is this?

Everything about WP7 seems rushed. The hardware is underwhelming and inferior to the iPhone. The interfaceLive Tiles specificallylooks like some bad web design from the late 90s. The animations are cheesy and overdone.

Microsoft thinks theyre going to regain market share with this? Its not even competitive.

(Sadly, WP7 is probably more polished than Android.)

First off, it wasn't until iOS 3 that copy and paste existed. Second, the way the OS is implemented it won't be necessary much of the time.

How is the hardware underwhelming? For example, the minimum specs are a 1Ghz Snapdragon chip.
post #56 of 334
Ugh. The "Start" screen hurts my eyes. All I see is big blotches of color. It takes a noticeable effort to read the actual information.

The calendar app looks very nice though. Too much space wasted by the title at the top, but otherwise, with the simple text and spot color on black background along with the clear and attractive layout, it appears to be quite usable. Though I prefer the iPhone's textual mode and navigation buttons.
post #57 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexorg View Post

The first release of a MS product tends to be clunky and buggy, but they have deep pockets and they do eventually tend to get things right after a couple of iterations.

Hmmm, except the Kin and Zune.
post #58 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Wall Street impressed, MSFT up a dime.

At 2:18, MSFT up .03; AAPL up 2.50

Hmmm.
post #59 of 334
I have to say although these phones are not wonderful, Microsoft created them from scratch. They did the job all by themselves. Google is just a thief like Meizu. I'm wondering when Jobs is ready to sue Google and all Android phone makers. Meizu is too weak to fight back. Google is a huge giant devil that Apple is not ready to fight.
I guess Apple's top lawyers are preparing stuffs to sue Android together with his buddy Oracle. Or one day, Oracle will merge with Apple
post #60 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Company chief executive Steve Ballmer said

Thats where I stopped reading...
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post #61 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

I have to say although these phones are not wonderful, Microsoft created them from scratch. They did the job all by themselves. Google is just a thief like Meizu. I'm wondering when Jobs is ready to sue Google and all Android phone makers. Meizu is too weak to fight back. Google is a huge giant devil that Apple is not ready to fight.
I guess Apple's top lawyers are preparing stuffs to sue Android together with his buddy Oracle. Or one day, Oracle will merge with Apple

what the hell are you talking about? if ms didn't steal anything then google certainly didn't either. android is similar to iphone but i think that is about to end with android 3. 3 looks like it is going to leapfrog ios and apple is going to be the one playing catchup.
post #62 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i'm a huge fan of real-time info on your homepage [hey apple, why does my weather icon always say it's sunny and 73 degrees????] but none of the screen caps actually show that data on the home page. You see different tiles saying "3 messages" or "25 emails" or a bunch of tiny pictures of your facebook friends. There's one big picture for a photos app. Nothing i see will keep a user from looking for sub-pages for actual info.

I would love it if apple allowed you to customize the info on your ios lock screen - to include a selection of widgets [weather, stocks, scores, recent sms, etc...]

+1
post #63 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

what the hell are you talking about? if ms didn't steal anything then google certainly didn't either. android is similar to iphone but i think that is about to end with android 3. 3 looks like it is going to leapfrog ios and apple is going to be the one playing catchup.

Hey, fan boy. If Meizu can be sued by Apple, why can google avoid the lawsuits?
At least, these windows 7 phone isn't similar to any iOS. Android copies exactly from iPhone just like what the poor and weak Chinese phone maker is doing. Now Meizu is suspended, how come Android phones are still safe?
post #64 of 334
Interested to see if this makes any traction - the idea of all of your needed info being available is cool, but some of those icons are horrific looking. Eh.
post #65 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Wall Street impressed, MSFT up a dime.

As I write this MSFT is only up 0.05 ... but Apple is up 2.62 .... that's what I call being impressed!
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post #66 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Reminds me of when I zap a fly with my electric fly swatter... It's spins uncontrollably and then dies just like Microsoft is.

Sometimes when it gets stuck in between then its fun.
post #67 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Hmmm, except the Kin and Zune.

LOL. got me there. That is something of an exception, though. They normally lick their wounds and try harder until they get it.
post #68 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drow_Swordsman View Post

Interested to see if this makes any traction - the idea of all of your needed info being available is cool, but some of those icons are horrific looking. Eh.

At least, they make all the UI with less copies from iOS...
post #69 of 334
http://photos.appleinsider.com/win-phone-7-101011-2.png

I guess did people notice that they all look the same. But, all these WP7 & Andriod makers tweak the Andriod UI so that they look different. The whole think looks & sounds counter intuitive from these handset makers.
post #70 of 334
Despite MS’ still designing some things by boardroom committee and some of the HW vendors doing some odd things I think most of the HW and the OS look pretty slick. It’s also the first ecosystem that has any chance of competing with Apple in any way.
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post #71 of 334
According to a video on the BBC website - there's no Flash?!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11515879

It mentions it at around the 2 minute mark. This is quite surprising with all the fuss over the iPhone not having it.
post #72 of 334
I 'like' the one that isn't produced the most.
Incredible.
post #73 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drow_Swordsman View Post

Interested to see if this makes any traction - the idea of all of your needed info being available is cool, but some of those icons are horrific looking. Eh.

I think there's a lot of Microsoft smokescreening there though. What needed info is there? 25 emails? I can see that on my iPods Mail icon, and Microsoft wasted an 8th of the screen telling me something which is actually no more useful than "You've got mail" - the single yellow envelope from Outlook gives you the same amount of "information" but in a fraction of the space. And a bunch of tiny pictures of your contacts? What "info" does that give you? These tiles just look clunky and wasteful.

On the surface it looks interesting, but as usual with Microsoft it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Just looks like marketing buzz with no substance. Again.
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post #74 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

3+ years late to the party and no copy/paste? Geez.

Then again, I'd like to be able to disable cut/copy/paste on my iPad/iPod. I rarely use it, and I'm constantly selecting stuff without meaning to. It's really just a pain in the butt to me.
post #75 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I'm interested to see what happens with WP7.

Apart from the stupid name, it seems like a fresh direction. It will be interesting to see if that new direction appeals to consumers, or just confuses them.

C.

Agreed. I personally find the new interface intriguing. Except for that start page. Those monochrome smart tiles may function well, but aesthetically, they're weak.
post #76 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

Hey, fan boy. If Meizu can be sued by Apple, why can google avoid the lawsuits?
At least, these windows 7 phone isn't similar to any iOS. Android copies exactly from iPhone just like what the poor and weak Chinese phone maker is doing. Now Meizu is suspended, how come Android phones are still safe?

being called a 'fanboy' on an apple site, and MS being defended to boot. FEAR of google must be hardcore.
android merely implements touch screen similar to iphone and others. they are not trying to be ios and android 3 should put that notion to rest.
post #77 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach View Post

The Dell looks really ugly and why do they still add a slide out keybord ? Is it not supposed to be a touch screen? Well at least it shows like 7h battery life which is kind of what I expect of a smartphone. But the others??? 3h-4h!!
You better not switch them on.

I wonder if the constant updating of the hubs has anything to do with battery life.

It appears that the "hub" design of WP7 is based around push notifications -- lotsa' push notifications.

To be able to "glance and go", your data needs to be current whenever you turn the phone on-- I surmise that means that there can be constant push notifications received & posted while the phone is in your pocket.

Maybe you avoid battery drain by selectively turning off some of the less critical notifications: tracking location of friends; schedule/calendar updates; friends social postings, etc.

If you need to do this to get acceptable battery life, then the "hub" concept devolves into a convenient folder to launch apps to see whats going on-- rather than always being current to all the events in that "hub".

If that is true, than the "hub" concept loses a lot of its allure.

Can anyone confirm or add to this?

.
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post #78 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

I think there's a lot of Microsoft smokescreening there though. What needed info is there? 25 emails? I can see that on my iPods Mail icon, and Microsoft wasted an 8th of the screen telling me something which is actually no more useful than "You've got mail" - the single yellow envelope from Outlook gives you the same amount of "information" but in a fraction of the space. And a bunch of tiny pictures of your contacts? What "info" does that give you? These tiles just look clunky and wasteful.

On the surface it looks interesting, but as usual with Microsoft it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Just looks like marketing buzz with no substance. Again.

The idea of the tile is that all of a person's information is aggregated in one place and displayed. So, the people tile displays any email that a person sent you, any texts, any twitter postings, any updates to their facebook page is all in the people hub in one spot.

If I were to do that on my iPhone, I would have to open (and switch between) multiple applications to get the same information.
post #79 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I wonder if the constant updating of the hubs has anything to do with battery life.

It appears that the "hub" design of WP7 is based around push notifications -- lotsa' push notifications.

To be able to "glance and go", your data needs to be current whenever you turn the phone on-- I surmise that means that there can be constant push notifications received & posted while the phone is in your pocket.

Maybe you avoid battery drain by selectively turning off some of the less critical notifications: tracking location of friends; schedule/calendar updates; friends social postings, etc.

If you need to do this to get acceptable battery life, then the "hub" concept devolves into a convenient folder to launch apps to see whats going on-- rather than always being current to all the events in that "hub".

If that is true, than the "hub" concept loses a lot of its allure.

Can anyone confirm or add to this?

.

battery life is the key issue. The ATT website lists "standby" duration of the Samsung Focus at 10 hours. Given the nature of the OS, I would conclude that includes the information push, I could be wrong. If true, that is not bad, as I currently get about 7 hours on my iPhone 3G running iOS 4, and considerably less if I use it alot.
post #80 of 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Lots of different hardware, yeah, no way this can fail. How long will it be until we hear the first "It's the drivers fault, or no driver available" comments.

More choices are bad in general, or bad when it is phones, or CE in general, or what?
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