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Microsoft unveils plans for first nine Windows Phone 7 handsets - Page 3

post #81 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

I saw videos on Endgadget today demonstrating the features of WP7. As long as the hardware is good, WP7 has potential.

My understanding is that only M$-approved software can be installed. If so, I have no interest in WP7 at all.

If that's not true, I'll have to see what kind of ecosystem is available for the ATT offerings. But I doubt that I'd ever get one.
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post #82 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

being called a 'fanboy' on an apple site, and MS being defended to boot. FEAR of google must be hardcore.
android merely implements touch screen similar to iphone and others. they are not trying to be ios and android 3 should put that notion to rest.

I simply respect people doing things creatively. Apple always does so and now Windows 7 phone is original at least from it's looking-and-feel.
Android is a copy from iOS. I just think they are evil and disgusting. Anyway, I don't care how Android 3 looks like. At least now they are disgusting. If Meizu is to be blamed, why is Google still there and why are there so many Android fan boys dancing with an ugly thief(Google)?
I have to say Google's PR is so successful. When they need IP protection, they ask for IP protection. When they wanna steal something from others, they call software freedom. How come are they insane like this?
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post #83 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:10pm
Something that I've seen barely mentioned in the marketing (or in this forum), but crucial to the potential success or failure of Windows Phone 7, is their SDK and developer base.

The SDK is based on Silverlight, which is essentially a graphic interpreter running on top of Microsoft's .NET development framework. Silverlight has been through 4 releases on the browser and is a mature platform. .NET (and its primary implementation language, C#) has been around for 10 years and has a massive developer base. The primary IDE for .NET development, Visual Studio, is now in its 5th release (Visual Studio 2010).

Why does this matter to the success of Windows Phone 7? Because this past spring, Microsoft reached out to its developer base with the Windows Phone 7 SDK and the tools to develop on this platform. The developer base has been highly energized and able to develop apps with a familiar IDE and language right out of the box.

Is this enough to guarantee the success of Windows Phone 7? No. But it puts it at least on par with the Android development community (which uses Java) for having a large existing developer base, knowledgeable in the tools and the language. There will be no shortage of available apps on Windows Phone 7 release.
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post #84 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

My understanding is that only M$-approved software can be installed. If so, I have no interest in WP7 at all.

If that's not true, I'll have to see what kind of ecosystem is available for the ATT offerings. But I doubt that I'd ever get one.

And exactly how is this is different from Apple approved software on iOS devices?
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post #85 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

i'm a huge fan of real-time info on your homepage [HEY APPLE, why does my weather icon always say it's sunny and 73 degrees????] but none of the screen caps actually show that data on the home page. you see different tiles saying "3 messages" or "25 emails" or a bunch of tiny pictures of your facebook friends. there's one big picture for a photos app. nothing i see will keep a user from looking for sub-pages for actual info.

Having Weather change its icon in intervals would nice but that means using a background process and they havent even added an option to find your location via the GPS. At least the Calendar app shows the date. I am not so keen on Mail changing the icon. I much prefer the badge system for basic numerics.

Id also like a special badge to see which apps are currently using processes when I got o Fast App Switcher. This might help people understand that the Fast App Switcher is a list of your most recently used apps in order from right to left, not all app currently running.

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i would LOVE it if apple allowed you to customize the info on your iOS lock screen - to include a selection of widgets [weather, stocks, scores, recent sms, etc...]

Now that iOS 4.1 is issue free for me Ill be JBing as soon as the Mac version of limera1n is available. Then Ill be installing one of the two nice lock screen apps that are sold on Cydia. Its the primary reason for my JB.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #86 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:17pm
I don't think Silverlight developers number is even close to Java developers.
Even nowadays, Object-C developers number is larger than the crappy Silverlight one.

The smartest move of Android is to use Java as a development language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgMac View Post

Something that I've seen barely mentioned in the marketing (or in this forum), but crucial to the potential success or failure of Windows Phone 7, is their SDK and developer base.

The SDK is based on Silverlight, which is essentially a graphic interpreter running on top of Microsoft's .NET development framework. Silverlight has been through 4 releases on the browser and is a mature platform. .NET (and its primary implementation language, C#) has been around for 10 years and has a massive developer base. The primary IDE for .NET development, Visual Studio, is now in its 5th release (Visual Studio 2010).

Why does this matter to the success of Windows Phone 7? Because this past spring, Microsoft reached out to its developer base with the Windows Phone 7 SDK and the tools to develop on this platform. The developer base has been highly energized and able to develop apps with a familiar IDE and language right out of the box.

Is this enough to guarantee the success of Windows Phone 7? No. But it puts it at least on par with the Android development community (which uses Java) for having a large existing developer base, knowledgeable in the tools and the language. There will be no shortage of available apps on Windows Phone 7 release.
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post #87 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:18pm
.

Just got back from the AT&T store in Brentwood, CA.

There were about 15 people in the store and 5 ATT reps.

Five of the customers were there to buy iPhones-- they had none in stock, but more expected in 3 days. They called ATT stores within a 20-mile radius-- no one had any!

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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #88 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

Instafail, whether it's 7 or 9... both are beyond the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magical_Number_Seven,_Plus_or_Minus_Two">avera ge person's short-term memory</a> limit (ie, between 4-7 depending on person).

Also going to cause purchase paralysis. This is why Apple only sells 1-3 versions of each of their products (ie, MacBook, MBP, iMac, MacPro, etc). People know what they're getting and have a limited choice (which promotes decision making).

At least in the Android world, there is only one "top" phone at any given time.

Microsoft, I better hope you got your business buyers primed, because for consumers, this is a face-plant of a sales strategy.

Not all the phones will be available at every outlet. And the ones that carry more than one will segment them well, or badly.

Providing choice is not something that inevitably leads to failure.

And in the Android world, there are both many great phones (not "one 'top'phone" like you claim) and many el-cheapo yesterday-type phones for the people who want to upgrade to a cool phone, but only for free or for cheap, and some in between.

If you notice, the HTC WM7 phones, for example, are each directed towards a different market segment. I think that there exist strong submarkets, and that a one-size-fits-all device might be a second choice for their members.

These phones will appeal both to niche and wide markets, depending on how they are marketed. Some will sell more than others. I don't see any obvious losers among them.
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post #89 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:32pm
.

It makes me laugh that some people really bitch and moan that an HD format video is letter-boxed on the large iPad screen -- and others are perfectly content to sacrifice 1/5 of a much smaller screen to the "Black Bar Of Style".

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #90 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

who picks all the terrible colors MS always uses?

oh yes horrid...

Brilliant strategy btw, they can't get one single decent phone out to get some traction and they decide to release nine. Geniuses...
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post #91 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

And exactly how is this is different from Apple approved software on iOS devices?

The difference is that ios devices have a few hundred thousand apps available. A small difference really...
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post #92 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

I don't think Silverlight developers number is even close to Java developers.
Even nowadays, Object-C developers number is larger than the crappy Silverlight one.

The smartest move of Android is to use Java as a development language.

object-c is not the same as 'silverlight'. any .net language can be used to develop in silverlight. there are a lot of .net programmers out there.
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post #93 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

object-c is not the same as 'silverlight'. any .net language can be used to develop in silverlight. there are a lot of .net programmers out there.

You can use c/c++/object-c/object-c++ to develop in iOS. I don't think .Net developers are as good as Java developers from quality to quantity.
There are even more c/c++ developers around world than .Net(all languages combined) developers. What's more, .Net is focused on server side more and c/c++ ranges from both server and client side.
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post #94 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

iPhone after 4 years, and no Verizon. Wow, the iPhone can't possibly succeed.

CDMA phones are supposed to come next year.

I personally love my iPhone 4 on ATT ... but apple took some big publicity hits by not being on the largest carrier in america.
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post #95 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Perhaps, but the fact that RIM has lost market share doesn't necessarily equate to a losing the business market in that a large portion of Blackberry users are teenage girls who text as well. Also, Microsoft's initial offering (Windows Mobile), is and always has been absolute junk in terms of usability, (and I've used it myself on multiple devices) and both it and Blackberry OS are based on antiquated, almost "pre-smartphone" concepts. The fact that the arrival of multi-touch smartphones from Apple and Google caused them to lose share is not really that surprising.

This is true, but I have yet to see anyone do anything much with the SDK except dip buckets into the goldmine which is mobile gaming.

I would also argue that while the iPad currently dominates the landscape, it's not geared for any kind of serious productivity. It's a netbook replacement aimed almost solely at passive consumption of media and social activities which can just as easily be done on a phone. There is a serious danger IMO that the shine will wear off the iPad as quickly as it arrived and people will figure out that aside from the bigger screen, they can do almost anything they want to on an iPad, on a phone. Additionally, there hasn't been time for any competitors to the iPad to even come on sale yet, so the question of what is happening in the tablet market is really completely up in the air at this point.

What I see in the tablet market, is that lots of other competitors are coming out with products over the holiday season and in the first quarter of next year. Many of these are extremely focussed on productivity using the 7" form factor. Apple hasn't announced anything in that area, and there are no rumours of them even testing different form factors for the iPad at this stage.

Even if you just look at software, obvious boosts to the productivity side of the equation for iOS like providing a home screen with "at a glance information" or providing an integrated package of calendaring/email for the end user don't even seem to be on the horizon for Apple, and no developers that I've heard of are working on this kind of thing through the SDK either. Notifications still barely work on iOS. Even email is problematic in that I still can't rely on having access to all my email from an iOS device at all times even though I only use MobileMe for my email. Using the Apple mail app requires you getting your head around a lot of confusing duplication of mail folders as well. Many just give up on trying to figure it out and trust that everything is okay without really being in control of it at all. I never get that feeling when I use a more corporate based email system like Exchange. There is also no file system on iOS devices and no easy or intuitive way to transfer documents to an iOS device or back again. Even a simple "My documents" folder is seemingly out of the question for Apple. This just makes no sense at all to most end users.

Apple has a way of surprising us so they might pull it off yet, but I'm definitely worried about this state of affairs. I think Apple is moving too slow given the rapid development of the new mobile platform and (especially in the area of productivity), they aren't really offering much at this point. If they get enough iPads in peoples hands for watching TV shows with, they can still bolt on some productivity improvements later on and perhaps win the day, but I think they should be doing this now, instead of waiting for an entire summer of new Android (and now WinPhone 7) devices showing just how poor Apple's offering is in that regard. It's always better to strike first, rather than respond to a competitors product IMO.

Air Sharing Pro is very powerful can be used to transfer files between phone & any where. You can even do ssh login and browse code (if you are into S/W development). But, there is no way now available to transfer content from one app to another but sure there it will be and when it is it will be the best & most simplest way.
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post #96 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I disagree.

Business users, and anyone who actually does work on their phone will gravitate towards these kinds of devices until Apple gets their finger out and decides to make phones or tablets for that part of the market (if they ever do).

I'm not sure where you're from but virtually every business meeting I attend there is at least one iPad present. We are planning on using them extensively in our businesses.
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post #97 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:49pm
I'll be interested to see how the tile/hub thing works out in real life.

As has been mentioned, I'm not sure you need big panels just to tell you you have 8 emails, or 4 text messages. And a "hub" that aggregates a great deal of disparate information on a tiny screen might not be all that efficient.

I also wonder about the idea of making custom panels for individual people. Is that really how anyone interacts with their phone data? Where I want to see all emails, texts, twitters, appointments, etc. from one person at a time? I would think that most people would be more comfortable with seeing those things in the context of everything else that is going on-- as is the case on other phones.

Still, it's an interesting idea and may have applications and uses that aren't clear at the moment. Maybe I'll pick one up in the store and play with it and have an aha moment, where the elegance and logic of the approach is suddenly obvious. We'll see.

One other thing I'm very curious about is how third party apps fit into the overall design scheme. As we know, Apple has a lot of tools in their SDK that tend to keep apps within the general look and feel of the device. It's not clear to me how the front end UI of Windows Phone 7 will work in that sense. Do I get an Apps list, or an Apps panel? What happens when I actually start running a third party app-- did MS build in enough design cues into the SDK so that it still fells like I'm using the same phone, or do I get dropped into some horror show of an MS devs idea of "sexy"?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #98 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

For example, the minimum specs are a 1Ghz Snapdragon chip.

This is a Microsoft OS we are talking about...so 2GHz with 2GB of RAM is going to be minimum to have a usable phone, and you really need more once you add anti-virus, firewalls, intrusion detection, etc....
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post #99 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:52pm
Different things are needed by different groups.

Consumers will want a nice browsing experience as well as easy switching between functions on the phone.

Businesses will need specific apps for their own business and will need the ability to write those apps for themselves easily enough.

I haven't seen anything on how well the phone really works in the hands of consumers/business. I don't trust the media to be fair, one way or the other, about how the phones really work. There will be those that trash the phone because it is MSFT and there also be those that thing it is gold because it is MSFT.

What I do know is that this is the scheme that they used for the Kin phones that didn't work. I hope that MSFT learned something from that experience. One thing that I can say. I really hate the color schemes and the tile concept. Didn't like it on the Kin phone and don't like it on these phones. And the asymmetry of the screen with that black bar on the side, along with the tiles and colors, makes me feel uncomfortable, like the phone isn't properly balanced. That is my initial impression.

Neal
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post #100 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

You can use c/c++/object-c/object-c++ to develop in iOS. I don't think .Net developers are as good as Java developers from quality to quantity.
There are even more c/c++ developers around world than .Net(all languages combined) developers. What's more, .Net is focused on server side more and c/c++ ranges from both server and client side.

huh? you can program c and c++ in .net
you don't understand me thinks.
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post #101 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:55pm
I don't know about those colors or those icons, the outlook icon is the worst of them, does anyone have a trademark on just using an envelope to mean email? I would think you would want the number of messages to be a different color from the rest of the icon, making it easier to distinguish what information has changed at a glance. Making XBox a prominently visible feature on every single model might be a mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Wall Street impressed, MSFT up a dime.

MSFT has been up and down over yesterday. Right now, 0.04% down from yesterday.

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Originally Posted by OldMacGuy View Post

At 2:18, MSFT up .03; AAPL up 2.50

Absolute figures doesn't really help as one share of AAPL has a lot higher value than one share of MSFT. So I can make better comparisons, I would go by relative percent, AAPL up 0.42%, MSFT down 0.04% at the time of this post. By comparing percentage change, you can compare the relative changes as if you had the same amount invested in both yesterday vs. what that would be worth today.

Anything under 0.1% seems to be well within the "noise" of regular trading in any given day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Apple amazing profits are do the fact they created the "real" smart phone market. They got it right... Lots of people bought their product because their product was new and totally innovative. As a result Apple made lots and lots of money.

Now, Apple has some serious competition now with Google and Microsoft. Will the iPhone continue to be a cash cow for years and years to come? I am not so sure.

The multiple carrier question in the US is still an unanswered question. There is nothing outside of rumors that indicate Apple is going to be offer on anybody other than AT&T.

I don't know about "real" smart phone market, I don't know how you'd define real vs. fake here. I think a better way to say it was they made smart phones desirable to non-business-people, which really broadened the market, I don't see business being a fake or illegitimate market.
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post #102 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I disagree.

As much as I hate Microsoft and have the lowest opinion of their design chops, these look like credible competitors to me. They are striking right at Apple's achilles heel with these things and I would expect that unless the actual user experience on the hardware is shite (and early reviews are that they are actually pretty slick BTW), that they will gain a lot of traction. Apple is focussed like a laser on the consumer as a sort of target to sell media to. Their offerings in terms of productivity however, are minimal, beta-esque and fraught with usability problems. This is the main weakness of the iOS platform IMO and Microsoft is going for the jugular here.

These are aimed more at Android than at the iPhone. I have read plenty of negative reviews on the user experience so I'm not so sure that will give them an advantage.

I'm not sure what productivity apps you are referring to but that isn't my experience and what makes you think that the Microsoft experience is going to be any better than what we have learned to expect from Microsoft?
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post #103 of 334
10/11/10 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

The idea of the tile is that all of a person's information is aggregated in one place and displayed. So, the people tile displays any email that a person sent you, any texts, any twitter postings, any updates to their facebook page is all in the people hub in one spot.

If I were to do that on my iPhone, I would have to open (and switch between) multiple applications to get the same information.

That is true... on the iPhone!

But, what I wonder about is how expensive (battery) is all the push notifications (or polling) and background processing to keep the content updated.

If it doesn't keep the content updated (only updates when the "start" button is pressed) -- hell I or any Android or iOS developer can write an aggregator app that does the same thing as a Active Tile.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #104 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

This is a Microsoft OS we are talking about...so 2GHz with 2GB of RAM is going to be minimum to have a usable phone, and you really need more once you add anti-virus, firewalls, intrusion detection, etc....

1 Ghz + 1GB is for showing the tiles & rest 1Ghz to run the app for which you bought the phone. The big question is can it make a phone call & access data.
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post #105 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:07pm
I gotta admit Windows Phone 7 looks great. Booth screens and videos. If it works as smooth as it looks I think it'll take a large cut of the cake.
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post #106 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

huh? you can program c and c++ in .net
you don't understand me thinks.

Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.
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post #107 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vexorg View Post

LOL. got me there. That is something of an exception, though. They normally lick their wounds and try harder until they get it.

I agree as well, overall they do stick with it, Windows is a a great example, I really like 7 when I have to use it. They just seem to have issues when it comes to small portable electronics.
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post #108 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

The target is not Apple, but BB and Android. MS took at page from Apple, and has created an complete ecosystem for Windows users. They have Office, Exchange, Games (Xbox Live integration) and Music and Movies (Zune Marketplace) and the app store is opening. One has to wonder why Apple all of a sudden created the Game Center and Social Network of iTunes, both of which MS has had for quite awhile.


Interesting how everyone knows Microsoft target. Target not Apple?.. yeah, if you believe that, i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. Has Microsoft ever met a company it did not want to crush? Microsoft is competing against all cell phone makers, whether they are named apple or not.
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post #109 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.

please don't. thanks.
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post #110 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

More choices are bad in general, or bad when it is phones, or CE in general, or what?

My initial post was that with CE in general, comparing it to the driver experience with Windows. In thinking about it, it seems that phones will pretty much have a unique and fairly static feature set, so they might be OK.

It was also a bit rash, in that CE has never needed drivers. Have had coffee since then.

But, and a big but, the same model with Android has produced a complex eco system for updates. I have a test HTC magic that is stuck on an older version of the OS because the vendor will not update to the latest code.

So, I guess it really depends on how Microsoft handles it. If they restrict modifications to the OS by the vendor, I would think that they would be OK.

While Apple does restrict choice quite a bit with a single basic form factor (I don't count color or RAM as choice in this case), I think they will benefit in the long run with reduced update and maint cost.
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post #111 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:22pm
I dont know if its already been said but ...
Quote:
Windows Phone 7, which shouldn't be confused with Windows 7 for the PC

That is the key to the whole sales side of this phone.

Morons will buy it thinking it will be as good and mature as their Windows 7 home PC.

In reality they should be forced to call it Windows Phone 7 v1.0 or something so people know that its not Vista/7.

Hell iOS and Android had too, so why should MS be special?
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post #112 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:25pm
I give them seven weeks

Ok, puns aside, I don't really think that this is going to be a big threat to Apple, I don't own an iPhone (unfortunately), I happen to have an HTC Tattoo...but I have one because Android seemed nice to me and caught my attention...and...weeelll an iPhone in Portugal is too expensive (most expensive iPhone 4 in the World).

Anyways this doesn't catch my attention one bit and I don't really see this with the potential to gain much sales...the menus and color schemes just seem awful to me...

On a side note...after 100 comments was I the only guy who noticed that in the second picture the LG (Quantum) appears twice, instead of the Samsung Focus?

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post #113 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

The difference is that ios devices have a few hundred thousand apps available. A small difference really...

The app issue is overstated. Apple app store did not open with 200k apps and neither did android, which is doing well. Second, many I those apps are games which is handled by xbox live. Third, as Apple tacitly admitted with it's recent no more fart apps statement, many of those apps are crap. Lastly, most surveys indicate most users do not use their apps after 2 weeks. Lastly, the windows app store will open with the major apps (eg netflix, flixster, etc).
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post #114 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

The idea of the tile is that all of a person's information is aggregated in one place and displayed. So, the people tile displays any email that a person sent you, any texts, any twitter postings, any updates to their facebook page is all in the people hub in one spot.

If I were to do that on my iPhone, I would have to open (and switch between) multiple applications to get the same information.


I like the concept of the Active Tile!

For it to be useful, however, the user must have a lot of external things going on that affect him-- or there would be little "activity".

There are several ways it could be implemented:

1) Push notifications
2) Periodic polling
3) a combination of the above

None of this is too expensive (battery) because the phone, in reality, is constantly mini-polling for calls, etc.

So, when notifications arrive (however, they arrive) they can be saved and a badge updated-- all but the simplest notifications, contain a token instead of the actual content.

At some point, the notifications are resolved by:
-- sending the token to the server
-- downloading the content associated with that token
-- invoking the app (or a mega-app) that processes that content (mail, pictures, people tracking, etc.).

This is the critical part -- resolving the notifications..

If it is done in the background whenever a notification arrives -- it can drain the battery.

If it is done when the user presses the start key (all outstanding notifications resolved) -- there, likely, will be a noticeable delay.


If neither is a problem for the user -- likely, the user doesn't have enough external "activity" to benefit from active tiles,


Surely, the OS can use some intelligence, realize that tokens are stacking up, resolve them and then go back to sleep.

Within the iOS SDK (and I suspect Android SDK), the developer can write a mega-app-- an "Active Tile" if you will, that could handle "resolving the tokens".


Apple or Google, certainly, could do it on a system-wide basis.


The question is the battery tradeoff worth the always updated status?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #115 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I disagree.

As much as I hate Microsoft and have the lowest opinion of their design chops, these look like credible competitors to me. They are striking right at Apple's achilles heel with these things and I would expect that unless the actual user experience on the hardware is shite (and early reviews are that they are actually pretty slick BTW), that they will gain a lot of traction... This is the main weakness of the iOS platform IMO and Microsoft is going for the jugular here.

The whole "tiles" metaphor seems junky and clunky to me, but people will put up a lot to get the integration and because a lot of the views Microsoft is giving on your data with these phones is actually useful as opposed to the iOS way of doing things. Business users, and anyone who actually does work on their phone will gravitate towards these kinds of devices until Apple gets their finger out and decides to make phones or tablets for that part of the market (if they ever do).

Actually, I think I would disagree with you here. What Microsoft is doing (and certainly MUST do) with this release is two fold. Differentiate from the Apple GUI benchmark (where Android went, instead of the BB model GUI). And play to their "strengths".

So first, differentiate. With Android being the primary eroder of the WinPhone market on the usual handsets and all the carriers - they need to address that. This does it rather successfully - it is different than the Android platform GUI which is necessary - but still on familiar hardware and all the carriers. You KNOW they will partner with the handset makers to BOGO or market the crap out of these, and incentivize downscaling Android - whether by lawsuit or by licensing. They will incentivize the carriers in the usual manner.

Second, playing to their strengths. While you may not think of Zune as anyone's idea of a strength - XBox arguably is. And if you can combine services delivery between the two systems - so much the better. Whether they have the right approach remains to be seen. XBox requires a fair amount of overhead, so that is not a given. Office - that's a given. Do they have a decent touch interface for the platform - not from what I've seen so far - but that can change. The tiles thing is a meh in my book, too much fishing for where things are - especially as my needs change as i move from work mode to play mode.

I don't see the iPhone productivity/usability thing as an Achilles heel issue. In fact the jugular as I mentioned previously is on the Android platform or the Blackberry/RIM platform. Apple has never been seen as a threat from the corporate side to Redmond, and isn't now. No, these are targeting RIM and Google - RIM for its intrusion into corporate delivery systems - Microsoft want's you off those BES and solely on Exchange - with a native Exchange client on the WP7 device. And they want you on a handset running WP7, not Android - or at the very least running on a version of Android licensed by Microsoft. The number of business users from the corporate side who would actually do anything other than review docs on a smartphone is very small, and is not playing to the larger consumer market. Now it may well be a part of the market Microsoft wants nailed down in their OS, but it's not a larger market threat.

FWTW, I don't "hate" Microsoft. I carry a number of their certs as a professional, but I don't think they actually "get it" in the same way Apple gets it from a consumer perspective. And again, it LOOKS like they are not aiming ahead of the target with this - but I will be just as happy to be proven wrong on this.
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post #116 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgMac View Post

Something that I've seen barely mentioned in the marketing (or in this forum), but crucial to the potential success or failure of Windows Phone 7, is their SDK and developer base.

The SDK is based on Silverlight, which is essentially a graphic interpreter running on top of Microsoft's .NET development framework. Silverlight has been through 4 releases on the browser and is a mature platform. .NET (and its primary implementation language, C#) has been around for 10 years and has a massive developer base. The primary IDE for .NET development, Visual Studio, is now in its 5th release (Visual Studio 2010).

Why does this matter to the success of Windows Phone 7? Because this past spring, Microsoft reached out to its developer base with the Windows Phone 7 SDK and the tools to develop on this platform. The developer base has been highly energized and able to develop apps with a familiar IDE and language right out of the box.

Is this enough to guarantee the success of Windows Phone 7? No. But it puts it at least on par with the Android development community (which uses Java) for having a large existing developer base, knowledgeable in the tools and the language. There will be no shortage of available apps on Windows Phone 7 release.

Very good points.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #117 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Lots of different hardware, yeah, no way this can fail. How long will it be until we hear the first "It's the drivers fault, or no driver available" comments.

Sprint support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a Windows Mobile OS problem. You will need to contact Microsoft customer support...

Microsoft support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a hardware problem. You will need to contact HTC customer support...

HTC support line: We're sorry. The issue you are having is a network problem. You will need to contact Sprint customer support...
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post #118 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by appl View Post

My understanding is that only M$-approved software can be installed. If so, I have no interest in WP7 at all.

If that's not true, I'll have to see what kind of ecosystem is available for the ATT offerings. But I doubt that I'd ever get one.

The arrangements for installing software on WP7 are similar to those of Apple. Basically, Microsoft has set up an marketplace for apps and any app that is offered to users in that marketplace have to be approved by Microsoft. It's the same setup that the App Store (Apple) has.

From what it sounds like, I don't think there's any particular AT&T exclusivity here. It's just that Microsoft designed that manufacturers are working with only AT&T for now with other versions coming soon.

I'm an iPhone user, and I should tell you that the WP7 interface blew me away. It looks really good.
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post #119 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:44pm
"Start screen with something called Live Tiles for highlighting a user's personal content. "

So what is the difference between a Tile and an Icon. My iPhone email Icon shows how many unread emails I have, my Calendar shows how many new appointments I have? I don't get how this is any different.
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post #120 of 334
10/11/10 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popeyelin View Post

Of course I know what you mean. The reality is developers in Windows platform is much more junior than those in Java/GNU C platforms. If you don't understand the difference between Microsoft C/C++ platform and standard POSIX C/C++ platform, I can't explain more to you.

Better quit now. With every post it becomes obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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