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Ballmer: Microsoft's brand 'means something' to users] - Page 4

post #121 of 219
10/12/10 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Are you really going to believe AI after what they did with this story

Hey, Cool it! Most of your posts have been rational... everyone is entitled to learn by their mistakes.

Balmer, AI, you and especially me!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #122 of 219
10/12/10 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

Well, now that is interesting. AI changed the title of the article and removed the "Apple not so much" part.

So, how many who railed against MS for the "not so much" part are going to man up and admit they were wrong?

"Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary."
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post #123 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:02pm
Quote:
If you don't have a minimum kind of standard [] the brand means nothing to the user



how much $$$ do i have to sniff to understand that?
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post #124 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:06pm
What Bill Gates would have done:

iPhone comes out in 07 - crap we are really behind. Let's try to port Windows to a smaller mobile device. If we can't do that, let's start from scratch and try to make the experience as close to apple's experience as we can.

App Store comes to iPhone OS - let's make office for iPhone OS. At least that will keep us in the mobile space for a few more years while we finish porting our code.

iPhone 3GS - release Windows 7 for mobile. Not Windows Phone 7. In other words make a UI that works on mobile, but very familiar to anyone who has ever used Windows 7. Have office on there, have xbox integration with xbox developers on board making some miniature Win7 for mobile games. You can connect to your xbox live friends right on the phone.

iPad comes out - port Windows 7 for mobile to the tablet, have a windows like UI and copy some functionality like printing from Apple.

What Ballmer did:
Zune was a failure, let's turn WinMo into Zune!
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #125 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

"Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary."

Except... it is so easy to screen save "capture" a moment in time!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #126 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post

Microsoft's last hope is to fire Steve Ballmer.



I have been thinking this for years. Ballmer has been destroying Microsoft. Not that i care, really.
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post #127 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWatch View Post

what MS brand's mean to users: reboots, powercycles, BSDs, Apple's not so much

Um, lets see... only from what was being discussed here at AI in tle last year or so... faulty screens, faulty graphics chips, faulty superdrives, clicking HDDs, cracking plastics, kernel panics, crashing Flash playback, dodgy magsafe connectors..?

Last time someone bothered to mention here at AI, Windows 7 had higher user satisfaction than OSX SL.

Really. Are we ever going to leave such petty crap behind? I really don't understand why people who choose one platform need to believe that other options are so bad. Incredibly low self-esteem? Doubtful about own choices? Faux superiority complex?
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post #128 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:32pm
Is Ina a man or a woman? Anyone else confused by this visual deception?
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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post #129 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:42pm
I'm surprised there are 128 comments on a story AI just made up. I think people must read the headline, see "Ballmer" or "Microsoft" and post without actually reading the article.
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post #130 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

This headline does not fairly characterize Ballmer's words. He does not say "Apple's not so much." He does not say Apple's brand "means nothing to the user." ... Seems more attention grabbing and link baiting than actual news.

absolutely; the original thread title was pure bait.

any reasonable person will assess the success / failure of WP7 devices only after a few quarters. some people made the mistake of disregarding Apple several years ago with the iPod and iPhone. best we take the high road, folks, and enjoy Apple products at the same time.
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post #131 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowejazz View Post

Once Bill Gates turned the MS helm over to Ballmer the trouble began. The MS results under Ballmer's leadership have been unspectacular at best. He's obviously in over his head.

His comments about the undisputedly fading Microsoft brand obviously demonstrate his lack of clarity and understanding of today's marketplace.

Sad to see the once respected Microsoft brand fade into the mud and mire of today's marketplace ... and even sadder, particularly for Microsoft's shareholders, to see the Captain of their ship so in over his head.

Wonder if John Sculley is available?

Lowejazz

Gates retired back in 2008.

Vista, Windows Mobile 6.x, original Zune and unsuccessful tablet vision (with convertible laptops) were all cooked under his lead.

Under Balmer, we have Windows 7 (best selling OS ever), Windows Phone 7, Server 2008 R2, Office 2010 unified across platforms.

I don't like Balmer much where he is (mostly because he looks and acts as used cars salesman from something like "Only Fools & Horses" TV show), but honestly, I don't see MS doing more bad moves under him that they did under Gates.
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post #132 of 219
10/12/10 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

True, true and true. People's comments should be directed toward the AI fail in this post.

Well, that is where smart people around here differentiate from trolls who only get triggered by specific words or phrases to sneak under their little stones, leave pointless comment and sneak back under
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post #133 of 219
10/12/10 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

Okay, I'm sorry but WHAT IN THE HELL is up with the dude interviewing Ballmer. Looks like he's wearing a sweater he took out of his sisters closet, then stole his grandmothers glasses....

Or are we all supposed to pretend he's a girl? And that freaking girl hairstyle..... which he doesn't pull off at all.... is he also wearing a bra?

Is this an idiot who can't accept he was born with a Penis? As for the MS phone..... Lame as always..... I'd be surprised if Gates throws out Ballmer though. He's such an incredible dork that he actually makes Gates look slightly less dorky.

I'm sorry... I still can't get over the CNET interviewer..... Gag!

Re, that "dude":

"During her years at CNET, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley."

"Prior to June 2003, Fried transitioned from male to female and began using the byline "Ina Fried." Fried had previously signed articles "Ian Fried.""

I thought the name sounded familiar, and now I know why.
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post #134 of 219
10/12/10 at 9:22pm
Ballmer's nonstop BS is as nauseating as it is quintessentially Microsoft.

"I think you clearly have a lot more variety than Apple has..."

For example, Microsoft offers a plethora of versions of its operating system, all of which are insecure. The only real variety is in the hugely diverse ecosystem of malware the average user ends up running.

This seeming plethora of essentially identical phones is the same mistake. How many will vanish from the market in a matter of months, like the Kin? How many will stick around forever despite the fact that should never have been released in the first place, a la Zune?

"Our brand means something to the user."

It does: omnipresent mediocrity, embodied in the "release it now we'll fix it later if we really have to, maybe" approach to product development.

Ballmer has discovered RepugnicanThink in a big way: if you can spend enough money on propaganda, facts become whatever you say they are.
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post #135 of 219
10/12/10 at 9:29pm
A new look and Nokia's adherence to symbian may give Microsoft a chance to become relevant again in the smart phone market: http://thesecondopiniontribune.blogs...ve-chance.html
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post #136 of 219
10/12/10 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

For example, Microsoft offers a plethora of versions of its operating system, all of which are insecure ...


Windows Server 2008 R2 is amazingly robust and a very solid performer.
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post #137 of 219
10/12/10 at 9:59pm
MS has as much brand loyalty as Google/Android given a fairly large install base of XBox 360s and the large number of .net developers (probably close to Java in useful devs). WP7 looks fairly polished although I haven't looked closely at it yet. I can say that Android is a freaking annoyance to develop for (goddamn sense UI crap) and the market is subject to large amounts of piracy.

WP7 is going to kick android ass on the gaming front. Yah, MS will do fine from a branding perspective.
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post #138 of 219
10/12/10 at 10:51pm
According to the world of Steve Ballmer, Microsoft's brand holds value for users, more so than rival brands, I guess Jobs and others should run for cover!!!

From its CEO onward, folks at MS is living in a dream world!!!!
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post #139 of 219
10/12/10 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I saw what you wrote, I just don't believe that we are dealing with the "old" MS anymore, in spite of what most people here seem to believe

I would never fault anyone who wants to stick to what he believes in, however, it's kinda hard to ignore the facts .... or history. We'll see in time, I guess ...... Peace.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #140 of 219
10/12/10 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Hey, Cool it! Most of your posts have been rational... everyone is entitled to learn by their mistakes.

Balmer, AI, you and especially me!

.

Dick, the problem, as I see it, is that AI has been making this kind of "mistake" far too many times lately. It would appear that "journalistic integrity" is being sacrificed just to gain "hits" ..... not a good strategy, imho.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #141 of 219
10/12/10 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinDave View Post

Who is this "Steve Ballmer" guy? A comedian, I'm assuming?

Ballmer is a true visionary. He sees what the competition has already done in the marketplace and tries to imitate it (poorly) by slapping Windows on a keyboardless laptop. Oh yeah, never mind that Microsoft has been trying to sell Windows on tablet PCs since the days of 16-bit Windows 3.11 with Pen Extensions. I'm not kidding. Insanity is doing the same thing for over a decade and expecting a different outcome.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #142 of 219
10/12/10 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacs72 View Post

Windows Server 2008 R2 is amazingly robust and a very solid performer.

True. Let's put that on a tablet
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #143 of 219
10/12/10 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I'm surprised there are 128 comments on a story AI just made up. I think people must read the headline, see "Ballmer" or "Microsoft" and post without actually reading the article.

Please. It's more fun this way.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #144 of 219
10/12/10 at 11:49pm
"One is more than I would like"? Doesn't this guy appreciate fair competition? I don't particularly want a device in this space because there's still room for development, but competition is what drives innovation after the initial good idea.

"One is more than I would like" sounds like sour grapes. MS has been trying to do a tablet for the better part of 10 years, and failed.

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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post #145 of 219
10/13/10 at 12:07am
Yea, what comes in mind about microsoft is an old finnish saying: Will we do it right now or with windows?
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post #146 of 219
10/13/10 at 12:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

I would never fault anyone who wants to stick to what he believes in, however, it's kinda hard to ignore the facts .... or history. We'll see in time, I guess ...... Peace.

We shall see. I agree with you that MS has a bad history, which has resulted in much deserved cynicism. They have not been the best.

OTOH, the old MS would never have developed WP7, nor would they have developed Bing. Also, people see the Kin as a failure, and it was - but the thing is, MS realized this early and pulled the plug.

None of their recent behavior is the same as the old MS, and I think they realize they are no longer calling the shots, and are responding positively to that.

Peace to you also.
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post #147 of 219
10/13/10 at 12:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Dick, the problem, as I see it, is that AI has been making this kind of "mistake" far too many times lately. It would appear that "journalistic integrity" is being sacrificed just to gain "hits" ..... not a good strategy, imho.

Dick, Newbee expressed my sentiments exactly. If I thought this was a "mistake" I would agree with you and apologize. However, this is simply one of several recent "mistakes"
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post #148 of 219
10/13/10 at 1:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Agree on the stickers, I feel very proud when using an Apple product. 2 large, 3 small stickers on the car, we are a 5 person mac using family.

Proud? Its a electronic device that somebody else created. You are not that special, you just use it.

Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x2, iPod touch 16gb gen 2, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod...

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post #149 of 219
10/13/10 at 1:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post

Seriously... even if you were desperate for a keyboard, you could get a ClamCase (or whatever they're called).
Besides, a hardware keyboard can be a downfall in quite a few scenarios, especially those that involve limited room.
Next up: MS introduces all-touchscreen tablet; Ballmer says that it's perfect and a hardware keyboard is unnecessary.

For my iPad I've got the Compass stand by 12South, and the small aluminum Apple bluetooth keyboard to slip in my bag when I want to do some serious typing... the combo looks and feels great.

I have never liked particularly liked laptops with fixed relationship between screen and keyboard, and I wouldn't like an attached keyboard or fixed keyboard/stand combo for the same reasons -- I have always liked to have screen and keyboard separate and be able to move them in relation to each other, or put the keyboard on my lap if need be, or whatever.
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post #150 of 219
10/13/10 at 2:53am
"It implies a certain level of consistency and high quality, which I think is important for the Windows Phone".

Consistent? Yes. High quality? Not so much. \

The average consumer doesn't give a pooh about burying their head into "your" roadmap and they certainly don't care about the processor. Geeks & and fanboys, yes. But these aren't the target groups that Apple pursues with the iPhone and they're doing pretty good in the smartphone space.
"'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are." -George Hanson
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"'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are." -George Hanson
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post #151 of 219
10/13/10 at 3:26am
I would say Microsoft and Ballmer did the right thing with the new mobile OS WM7. UI looks very nice, it's fast (from what I see on videos and previews), and they do it right with the HW limitations so they avoid HW fragmentation that exist with Android and is total mess. What is most important here is that UI experience is totally the same on all available devices... This is what's gonna make a big impact on Android.

I predict that in 2 years time WM7 will be already bigger then Android! Apple doesn't need to be afraid much here. People will still want iPhone. But I hope Apple starts innovating on UI experience again, because I personally think the WM7 UI looks really good!

(this is from Apple fan and iPhone user)
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post #152 of 219
10/13/10 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emacs72

Windows Server 2008 R2 is amazingly robust and a very solid performer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

True. Let's put that on a tablet

Seriously, It is fairly easy to put a web server on a JailBroken iOS device (and, probably, an Android device)...

...Is that a web server in your pocket, or you just glad to see me?

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #153 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:16am
Yea.... It means I bought a load of crap.... AGAIN!!!

d
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post #154 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:20am
This is what Microsoft's brand means to me.



This is all I see... all the time.... every time!

People always bring their computers to me looking like this. Its such a pain in the ass to manage software on the windows platform. On top of that there are all the crappy drivers, utilities, and adware that manufacturers and vendors throw on there. It really just pisses me off. Thats why I switched to Mac.

Not to say Macs don't have flaws, they have lots but its usually no where near as annoying to work with.

I always tell people: "Try something else! Mac, linux, anything else! Please!"
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post #155 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jume View Post

I predict that in 2 years time WM7 will be already bigger then Android!

Maybe.

However, remember that since Android doesn't need to maintain a consistent user interface or experience it can run on a wider range of hardware.

I wouldn't be surprised if in two years time there are "light-weight" versions of Android competing or replacing feature phones.
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post #156 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:45am
We've got Windows PC's at the office...

The Microsoft brand, to me has special meanings:

1. Ctrl-Alt-Del;
2. Bad drivers translated from Korean to English by an overworked, borderline-suicidal poor hindu dude that gets paid slave wages to feed this heaping pile of garbage code that is the windows universe;
3. Need a technical course just to understand why the friggin OS doesnt work and what'S causing the boo-boo;
4. Lost productivity;
5. Frustrations of less tech-savy coworkers who hate IT;
6. Undue psychological trauma to the IT guys;
7. Voodoo dolls of the IT guys;
8. Loads of double-speak and weasel words from the marketing people to push crappy code;
9. OS inertia in large companies
10. Having a fat, bald guy who's desperatelly (literally) trying to sell bad code (and he knows it too) to the mainstream market, growing more and more attuned to simple, easy-to use, hassle-free OS like OSX

At least Bill is trying to do some good in the world with the billions of dollars MS raked with bad products... Steve Ballmer is the Sean Avery of CEOs.

(gag)
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post #157 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

They do not want to realize that Ballmer was not talking about Apple, because then they would not be able to say bad things about MS.

Remember, for the masses, the delusion is preferable to reality.

No matter what, they will say bad things about

Microsoft
Adobe
Intuit
HTC
Dell

and anybody else who makes the list.
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post #158 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by axual View Post


I will never buy a Microsoft product until Microsoft alters it's approach to customers and it's products.

What sort of approach are you looking for?

What approach would change our mind?
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post #159 of 219
10/13/10 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Agree on the stickers, I feel very proud when using an Apple product. 2 large, 3 small stickers on the car, we are a 5 person mac using family.

When people see those stickers, they know that you are a man to be respected! You buy certain products! And you give them free advertising!

Wow! Yes indeed, you should feel proud when using an Apple product. It speaks volumes about you, down to your very core. You have transformed your very being.

Buy more Apple stuff! Quick!
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post #160 of 219
10/13/10 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if in two years time there are "light-weight" versions of Android competing or replacing feature phones.

I also expect that. For example, Microsoft has a lite version of windows that is customized for netbooks. A lite version of Android for feature phones makes a lot of sense.

I know nothing about the guts of this stuff, but would it be possible to have the OS in modules, which can be excluded for phones that have insufficient hardware? Like no camera functionality if the device has no camera?
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